Here's my quess on the Org's stand on off limits

[Rick G]

Here is who I think will-will not have off-limits next year.
Won Bass-No way
ABA-Yes in some regions
A/C-Yes in some regions
NBW-John Barron-Yes
100%- doubtful but dont know these folks.
Policeing is not an issue, the cheaters will get caught. All the directors should run their regions like normal and let the 80% who want off limits take care of the rest. Rick G.

[DL]

Sounds good. I dont decide where to fish based on off limits. And I dont worry about cheaters either....its going to happen regardless.... I would rather spend my time worrying about the fish instead of what Joe Blow is doing during the week or on saturday.

[Kevin]

I hope you're right Rick. It really looks as if 100% is listening to what we want which is a good sign. The fact that Bob took the time to create a poll shows that he's aware of what's going on.

[Brian Linehan]

Awesome Rick. Thanks a lot for posting that.

[Ghost]

Why No Way for Won Bass? Just wondering....

[Ray L.]

Hey Mark where you been

[Guy Williams]

Why no Won Bass? No brass down low. Also it takes a leader to go with this rule improvement. Won Bass does not have a leader to step up.
Guy Williams
P.S. If some of this goes through I will know who cheats from DVL. And my birdy will help with the mug shots if you catch my drift.

[Scott Shambre]

U.S. Anglers Choice PROBABLY won't change due to having to change their rule book for the entire country due to them being a nationwide org. If they polled their anglers, I doubt they could get an overwelming number of teams to commit to changing throughout the country. As for region specific rules, I don't see that either becuase if I go back east to visit family and my cousin and I want to fish an A/C tournament, the rules should be consistant throughout the ENTIRE organization. MY $.02


Scott Shambre

[Rick G]

Why can't each director's region be his own little business. The local anglers only deal with the local director, so let him make the rules. It's called " hand them a piece of paper with the rules" at each specific event. If the rest of the country does not want these rules, who cares? Take care of YOUR customers. Rick G.

[Scott Shambre]

This is the path to an inconsistant organization. When org's make rules for some and not others is when there is a problem.

Example:

In NorCal, A/C has 8 divisions within region 1. If I choose to fish their CHOICE (Travelers) division to get to the TOC, why should I have to worry about an individual TD in just one of those divisions making his own rules. It is my opinion that this will lead to inconsistancy throughout the org. I should be able to drive to visit my friends in San Diego and be assured that the A/C rules will be the same as my home waters (local laws,off-limit areas, etc. not withstanding).

I don't think that you would want the rules different for a tournament at DVL than if you were to go fish one at Cachuma.


Scott Shambre

[Lance]

Rick,

I can see why Scotts example, diff orgs + diff regs =chaos. Rick, would you agree that for 200 years this country has had diff laws in diff states hasent it been just awfull

[Brian Linehan]

Hey Scott, this is a So. Cal issue right now. Thanks for caring, but this directly those of us in So. Cal and not the Folsom Bass League. No offense.

[Scott Shambre]

This is an issue that concerns the entire state. Last time I checked WON, ABA, Angler Choice & 100% are all statewide organizations. What they do in one part of the state will have an impact on the rest of us. No offense Brian, but this issue concerns me deeply as a tournament angler and has nothing to do with the FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE.


Scott Shambre

[BigJeff]

It is the TOURNAMENT ANGLERS responsibility to read the rules for each event they fish prior to signing up for the event. If the rules differ from region to region, that should be noted on that organizations web site and if they note it than this really isnt an issue...except for those still lobbying to pre-fish during the week.

[Scott Shambre]

Is Anglers Choice, WON ABA or 100% going to publish EVERY rules packet for every region so if I choose to fish another region i will have it to look at and know prior to signing up for the tournament. I don't want to show up to a lake and prefish only to find out that I violated a prefish rule because this region has a rule different than what is published on the org's website. See what I'm getting at. I think Kevin hit it on the head that this will be an all or nothing deal for this very reason.


Scott Shambre

[Rick G]

Scott, let me ask you a question. At the A/C events at Shasta, Folsom, Oroville a 12-13" size limit on the fish? Becuase if you come down here to fish @ DVL it is 15". Different rules. Are you telling me that on the A/C website they don't have a webmaster that can put a little * next to each region that has off-limits and it is the responsability of each team to know the rules. This is not ROCKET SCIENCE. We have small lakes that have different requirments. Rick G.

[Scott Shambre]

Size and bag limits are handled at the pre-tournament meeting just before blastoff in every tournament I've ever fished up North. We anglers already know the size limits, but it is the TD's responsibility to make sure we know prior to going out. Any director that doesn't announce and re-announce the size limits a limit for the tournament is not doing their job fully. This is an issue that does change from lake-to-lake and is something that the directors cannot control due to it being a DF&G ruling. Take a look at the Region 2 rules for A/C and your very issue is addressed in Rule #10 SCORING FISH.

12" Minimum size UNLESS the state or lakes minimum size is greater

By the same token, couldn't the INDEPENDANT TD's change their payback from what the Org calls for and take a little more for themselves or money away from the org. The pledge here should be for consistancy from all of the org's when it concerns the off-limits debate. Do you guys need it down south, maybe, I don't live there and you guys know better. This issue needs to be one of consistancy from everyone of the decision makers so we, the anglers, know EXACTLY what is expected from us.

Different rules for different regions will thus eliminate the traveling circuits because there will not be a common ground among the different circuits teams have to fish to qualify. It creates a whole new group of disenfranchised anglers because now some teams on their home waters will have certain advantages, like the ability to prefish, yet some will not have the same benefit in other regions. You will see some divisions within an Org. explode while others will flounder and multi-region org's. (like say ABA, WON, 100%, NBW & A/C) like consistant numbers throughout their org. Peaks & valleys are not good especially when the orgs can only blame their own inconsistant rules for those peaks & valleys.


Scott Shambre

[Brian Linehan]

Scott, please stop the madness. We in Southern California are trying to make a change that can only affect us. You should be busy enough running your bass club to not give a hoot what we do. You are only involved in this because you obviously love drama. I wish some of tournament directors were as passionate about this as you obviously are. Unfortunately, a couple people aren't and we'll see what happens to their attendance next year. That's not a threat, it's reality.

We're all trying to be patient with you Scott, but if you have any respect for us on the Southern Board, drop out of this So. Cal. issue. It's sticky enough as it is and quite frankly, your vote doesn't mean squat down here. Can I Florida resident vote for California governor just because he like Arnold? I think not. Therefore, you had your chance to rant and rave when the topic was discussed up North. Leave it alone. You are only going to embarass yourself when it's all said and done.

[Scott Shambre]

I've got the courage, as a TD, to stand up and say what I will or will not do so everyone of the anglers that MAY fish my circuit knows what to expect. Question....Of all of the TD's you talked to over the last few weeks, how many did you feel were being honest with you and how many did you feel were jerking you around. Korny has been the stand up guy that he has been for many years and told you guys that he is interested PUBLICLY in what's on your mind. He has put that poll together to help him make an informed decision on how to handle this.

WHERE ARE THE OTHER ORG'S ON THIS ISSUE???

I do feel that you have been duped by some Org's into thinking that they will take you issue to heart Brian and you're right that their attnedance will reflect that disregard. I have tried to model the FBL after alot fo what Korny does because 100% Bass is the best up here and you guys are in for a treat, BUT if he doesn't make things go your way, please don't throw him out with the bath water, becuase it will be SoCal's loss.


Scott Shambre

[Brian Linehan]

Who in the heck said anything bad about Korny? He is the only one on here asking our opinion. Did I miss something here guys? As far as being duped, who knows? When people that I have known for years tell me something, I generally listen to them. Like I said before, if they duped me, so be it. Their attendance will reflect it.
Understand that this is not a handful of internet geeks who don't have a clue. The people behind this are the most influential and veteran tournament fishermen in the South. Rick Grover, being one of them, has made his opinion of what he thinks and I think he is right on. Lets keep the focus dude on us So. Cal. guys and what the huge majority of us want. If this was about Folsom, Don Pedro, or Shasta, it would be totally different. Enough said.

[Ray L.]

Ok Scott do you remember when we did have off limits?
If so then you will remember some regions at least in the south had off limits and some didn't. Each region for every org. had there own rules. Not to hard to accomplish do you think? If you think it is than maybe you should do a little re search and you will see that A.B.A. had off limits at Castaic for the whole week. At Yuma A.B.A. they had off limits mon. to thurs. pre fish friday. hmmm not to hard so far. W.O.N. had off limits at Perris Mon. through friday, pre fish on sat. for Sun. tournament because there were many tournaments on Sat. wow pretty simple don't you think.
We as anglers are not stupid idiots we know the rules for the regions we fish and if we fish travellers we know the rules for the lakes we are going to be fishing. Every org. has a contact for the regional t.d. on there web site and if you don't use a comp. you can call the main office and they will help you to get in contact with any t.d. you need to speak with.
So please in the future do a little research on the tournaments in S. Cal before you start a grudge match with some of the heavy hitters in fishing in So. Cal.

[Mike]

This dude is THICK! You are all wasting your time trying to reason with him. I sure all of his 15 teams that came out to fish his last tounament want the no off limits.

[Ray L.]

I will tell you that Scott is a smart guy and runs a heck of a deal at Follsom. I am not trying to put him down or anything of the sort. I am just reminding him of days gone by in Southern Cal. Maybe I have been fishing far to long but I know many of you remember the off limits and other rules that have been changed over time. Heck it wasn't to long ago that the sospenders were not allowed in tournaments.