Proposal - Bass West, Best of the West Tour - Feedback wntd

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:33 pm

OK, I think I have put together something that matches what you are asking for. I have this approved but, before we start accepting checks we'd like to hear your feedback.... So what do you think???

Bass West "Best in the West Team Tour"

5 Lakes Covering all of California

Basic Rules (advanced rules to follow)
1. All teams must fish all 5 events
2. All entry fees must be paid in full by December 1, 2006
3. No event will coincide with an FLW Series, Stren Series, Won Bass Pro Am or Angler's Choice Pro Am
4. Entry Fee per event $500 per Team ($2500 for season)
5. Teams may not change partners. Except Medical Emergency whereas replacement partner subject to approval by TD
6. Off Limits M-TH of the week of the event
7. Top 20 Teams Qualify for TOC (1 throw out event)
8. TOC - 2 days of official Pre-fish (Lake to be announced 1 month before the event and will be off limits for 2 weeks prior to pre-fishing. Boats for 1st, 2nd and 3rd plus $2000 guaranteed to all making the TOC
9. 2 Day Event
10. 7 Fish Limit each day
11. An angler committe of 10 anglers will be selected randomly from the teams signed up. Any rules infractions and/or tournament changing decisions will be put to vote to the 10 anglers. The decision of those 10 anglers will be final. In case of tie, the TD will make the decisive 11th vote.

LAKES
There will be 2 lakes in the North selected from these
Delta - Clear Lake - Shasta or Oroville

There will be 1 lake from the Central selected from these
Don Pedro or Melones

There will be 2 lakes from the South
Casitas - Castaic or Cachuma

Event Paybacks for the 5 events
1 5000
2 2500
3 1750
4 1600
5 1500
6 1400
7 1200
8 1100
9 1000
10 750
11 750
12 750
13 750
14 750
15 500
16 500
17 500
18 500
19 500
20 500

Total payback per event $23,800

NO ENTRY FEE TOC for Top 20 Qualifiers
1 BOAT (36,500)
2 BOAT (36,500)
3 BOAT (36,500)
4 5000
5 2000
6 2000
7 2000
8 2000
9 2000
10 2000
11 2000
12 2000
13 2000
14 2000
15 2000
16 2000
17 2000
18 2000
19 2000
20 2000

Total Payback at TOC $146,500

Total Entry Fees $250,000
Total Payback for Season $265,500
106% Payback

Here is the only catch -

100 boat minumum... No 100 Boats, No trail!
All entries must be paid by Check by December 1, 2006 at which time if there is not 100 boats all checks will be returned to their respective owners. If 100 boats have signed up then the trail will take place with the payouts and rules as above.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:38 pm

Tom - as long as there is no conflict of interest - I AM ALL IN. This sounds like an awesome circuit. Anybody got a bed I can borrow in SoCal?

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:09 pm

I like the concept. I think what the earlier thread and discussions about off limits have made clear is that the large majority of the fishermen just want a good fair circuit where its hard for anyone to get a huge advantage over other people. I couldn't say if I could fish something like that this year but when I'm older and have the house and the boat I would be very interested.

My only question was, will there be options?

My only comment is that while its a nice idea to have this more level playing field that plays against so called zip code fishermen, as long as there are lots of regional circuits it might limit the number of guys who will fish something like that when they could stay close to home. I don't consider myself a zip code fisherman per se because the nearest tournament body of water to me is the delta which is an hour, but when I was on fish at Don Pedro, I wasn't ashamed to cherry pick it as hard as it could be cherry picked. That's just reality I guess.

And my only disagreement was on the 7 fish limit. A 7 fish limit seems to favor the guys who fish for numbers vs. big fish guys. There's big fish lakes on your schedule which is cool but its hard for a swimbait guy to win with a few big ones vs. 7 decent fish. I fished every team tourney circuit in nor-cal just about in 2005 and they were all 5 fish limits. I think that's a good compromise number. It's not a trophy tournament like the snag proof or the dvl night event where you fish for 3 fish but its not a contest to see who can get 7 three pounders either. JMO

I give you props for at least being willing to try something different.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:17 pm

There will probably be a big fish option - 100% paid back.

I don't see a need for other options. Options are great because they are 100% paid back... but, if your event is already 100% paid back why mess around with options and taint the payback. I like a no options event so everyone can see the numbers in black and white... No hiding anything! 250,000 paid in.. 265,500 paid back. That's 106%!

As for your 5 fish limit idea. I can understand your opinion on this, however, this is not a big fish hunters type of event.. This is an event for guys who can find solid fish and put them in the boat, to see who the Best in the West is... when it comes to Big Fish hunters events, we may have something like that as well through SwimbaitNation.com. As for this trail, 7 fish for 2 guys shouldn't be a problem. If you are a big fish hunter.. just team up with someone who can catch 4 or 5 fish to go with your 2 or 3 big ones!

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:47 pm

Tom,

The only problem I see is in calling a California tourney circuit the Best of the West Tour. How about Best of California.

I'll send you my check for the Washington/Oregon version as soon as you announce it; or maybe I will move back to California.

It sounds like a great tour.

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:17 pm

I think no options is totally cool. That's how the big time tours do it and it adds legitimacy to the payouts.

I'm picturing 100 teams on casitas for two days fishing for 7 fish a day and it seems kinda knarly but I can drag worms if I have to

Anyway, my feedback is that it sounds like a pretty cool circuit and I'd probably try and fish it when the time was right for me.

Mark Hiser · Post by **Mark Hiser** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:36 pm

Tom, might I suggest that at the TOC, keep the boats,and pay back cash. The 36,500 looks great, but will probably be in actuality around 25,000. put these numbers on the value of the boats and it don'e look as good. As team events, both partners want their share, and what they get after selling the prize is far less than the listed worth of the product, not to mention the time it can sit while waiting for a buyer.
JMHO
Mark Hiser

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:59 pm

Hey Mark -
You are exactly right... but, if we paid back the 25,000 you are talking about then the payback would be at 90 some percent and the people running the tournament make $0...

People can call it however they see it... but, the orgs are making money running tournaments.. or why run them? Besides... when the prestige of winning a boat far outweighs the trouble of selling it and splitting the 27,000 or 28,000 these boats have been selling for.

If you wanna do cash, I am sure that will be a big hit..... but, nobody will run it for $0.... With the time, effort advertising and staff it takes to put these things on it wouldn't make sense to run it. The way the orgs (in this case Bass West) will make money for the time it takes to do this is because the boats actually cost us less than the 36,500 they are listed as.

Just buisness!

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:33 pm

I'm with Marc on this one. If you want to call it the Best In the West. Let's drop the California thing, and include the rest of the West. Won Bass does a good enough job at excluding the rest of the states without you joining in.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:38 pm

what the hell name they call it, bring it on!! Get it movin, show us the plan and where ta sign up! I would fish this in a heart beat!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:03 am

Hey Murph,

I'd like to have a tour that went to

Nor Cal, So Cal, Powell, Columbia River and Havasu

That would be the true test to the best in the west.... However, with gas prices as they are... getting guys to travel from So Cal to Nor Cal or Vice Versa is tough enough....

As for the Best in the West........ Maybe we'll change that part of it.. but, first we need to see what kind of interest we can generate because like I mentioned in the posts above.... no 100 boats, no tournaments!

Why aren't you down at Mead Murph? 50 Boats fishing for a boat.. tbat's my kind of odds! Actually, I might have a chance if it was 20 boats fishing for 3 boats... (kinda like the TOC in this new trail!)

Stretch1 · Post by **Stretch1** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:08 am

Hell i havent even started fishing Pro tournaments yet and im excited...i would be in....Keep the name best of the west...last i checked the west is the best...and California is as far west as you can get...also just a suggestion with the lake picks...Clear Lake with the casino and lodging...Oroville for the same plus you have the tackle store, and i would suggest someplace other than the delta and the only reason is if this circuit is going to be different go to Berryessa as for the rest of the lakes or heck all of em draw em out of a hat make it totally random...Have the T.O.C the following year in the spring or something...i personally hate fishing in a t.o.c wear i have to wear rain gear...lol...Just my .02

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:14 am

You're absolutely right, Tom. Sounds like there is a lot of interest in something like this. I just wish I lived closer to some of the Good water up in that area. As for Mead, I should have been there, but we're right in the middle of Mel's campaign these days. We are setting aside the time for the Team Classic though. You and Newman better bring your "A" game. lol. (I let Klinger slip by me again in the Fantasy deal, I made up my team too early)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:18 am

Ouch.. Klinger is a must pick on Mead... heck anywhere for that matter! Although, he didn't help me much in the FLW Championship.

As for the Lake Mead Classic... That should be a lot of fun this year with 2 days of fishing and a boat on the line. Vern does such a great job with that event... It's my favorite event of the year by far!

What is Mel campaigning for?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:20 am

LET US HANDLE YOUR TOC HERE AT LAKE DON PEDRO. 5TH LARGEST IN CALIF 16O MILES OF SHORELINE.

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:00 pm

Yea, I should have waited for the updated list, I probably would have picked Tom also, cuz I'm sure him and Klinger, help each other out a little.

Mel is running for Assessor, "the tax bandit". She didn't have to do the Primary, but she's gearing up for the General, in November. Then she can concentrate on fishing again.

I got to admire Tyler's new Legend the other day, at our final ABA tourney. He's pretty tickled with it. I'm Real close! Jamie is assembling a decent bunch of guys and it would feel good to be a part of something that is up and coming.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:05 pm

I gotta say, I love mine, 100%! There isn't a thing I would change about it. The company is outstanding, they definitely listen to the owners and are quick to make the necessary adjustments. In fact, after I got my boat, I recommended a new handle for the passenger and I hear that Tyler got one in his boat. In less than a month they found a company to make the handles and are now putting them in all of their boats... I like that! It'd be great to have you on board with Team Legend!! I am sure Jamie can get you a great deal!

Good Luck to Mel... if there is anything I can do to help out let me know (web stuff.. graphics.. emails etc) I'd be glad to help out.

My email is editor@basswest.com (in case you don't have it)

Johnny C · Post by **Johnny C** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:35 pm

Great idea here for a "Super Team" type format..Or a "Pro Team" type format...But not to sound negative guys, the word "Best" is thrown in there losely..The cost and time envolved is out of a lot of great bass fishermans range...We all know many outstanding fisherman that because of either funds, family or job could never enter this circuit...So my only suggestion is leave out "The best" and carry on with what seems like a great idea!

Chris Laskowski · Post by **Chris Laskowski** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:47 pm

I personally think getting 100 boats to sign up for the whole season would be tough because of the traveling exspence. This doesn't pay back great, unless you make the toc. I think the only way you will be able to get a 100 boats is split the circut up into north and south. Make it 50 north and 50 south and cap it that to make it fair. Now you can make it 3 tournys in each divison and actually make another 50000 for?. This would fill a lot easier and still take 20 boats to the toc. Nothing changes but do 50 boats. I would fish if I could do this.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:54 pm

Eliminate the two Southern Ca lakes and add in perhaps Sonoma and Folsom. and also eliminate any angler who has won over $50,000. I will send you a check tomorrow. I will also bet that your participation will jump considerably.

Jim

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:57 pm

Thats why I think they should eliminate the Southern Ca lakes.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:04 pm

eliminate the guys who have made over 50 grand you will easily have your hundred boats. You will have put the majotity of the contestant in a positin where they can take first place.
Try offering it both ways and see what happens

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:53 pm

Tom: are you going to have the boats on site at the TOC for the winners or are you giving away certificates?

Hardshell · Post by **Hardshell** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:09 pm

I say forget the TOC and the boats. Keep what you need to run the thing off the top, add another tournament in place of the TOC, no options(except for BF), pay us "CASH" after the tournament base on numbers. Everything else suits me just fine and frog's hair.

Hardshell-Jailer

Mark Hiser · Post by **Mark Hiser** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:50 pm

I'm in agreement with Hardshell. Figure what you gotta have for running the events, post your paybacks based on that. See if you get the interest. Otherwise it doesn't seem to be much different than what is already here. Other than your trying to get full field entries before it happens. [which is a good Idea, imo]. I also don't think anybody should be excluded. Off limits is supposed to level the field.

Mark Hiser

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:55 pm

THEN BASICALLY WE ARE BACK TO THE OPEN TEAM OR JUST SUPER TEAM TOURNAMENT THING , RIGHT ? WE USED TO LOVE THE SUPER TEAM 2 DAY EVENTS BACK IN THE EARLY 90'S .

JIGS

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:28 pm

The "best" fisherman will be left at home. The "best" fisherman are also working men with families most times. Most of them fish out of old boats, work all night then drive to a tournament, and can't afford the gas. You should rename it the "Best of the West with deep enough pockets"

With that said, I think it's a good idea. If you build it and they come, then it was a great idea!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:06 pm

Hi Korny,

All the Angler's Choice tournaments are drag your boat home from the event for the past year plus. With the exception of the one Clear Lake event this year where the delay on Mercury motors caused us not to have the boat. From what I hear the boat has been done for a while but, BassCat doesn't want to ship it until they have another boat to ship out west with it.

So short answer is... the boats will be on site.

We just gave away another boat today to Tim Klinger in the SW Pro Am on Lake Mead.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:28 pm

Jim -

Eliminating anyone who has made over $50,000 sounds like a good idea BUT - I think in a team format it levels the field with guys like Jimmy and Gary etc... Unless of course they fish together - But I don't think Gary would fish out of a Purple boat and Jimmy won't fish out of a boat with an Evinrude so we could be safe there. Who knows... Maybe we can offer it both ways and see which way has more interest.

As far as "The Best" wording ---- well, call it whatever he heck you want... the way I see it... Its a 5 tournament travellers trail Covering most of California... "King of California Trail" could work --- with rules like they used to be, with some modern modifications.... Finish in the top 20 and fish against 20 guys for 3 boats where else can you do that? The top 20 should include anyone who is consistent throughout all the lakes.

Personally, I don't want to take the boats out of the thing... Here is why.

I remember when I first got into this fishing thing and I heard about Gary Dobyns... I asked someone, how good is this guy really... They said, "He's won 39 boats" not, he's made 600,000 or he's won 52 tournaments or he designed the best baits or the best rods... or anything else... Just plain and simple "He's won 39 boats!" Winning a boat is a label most guys want... Sure, most people sell them... sure you have to split the money with your team member.... but, its still that prestige of "I won a boat" When Billheimer and Lucas won the Semi-Pro trail last year.. it wasn't hey they are the TOC champions.. It was, they won their first boat... FYI (Now Billheimer has 2 and Lucas has 2 (one as an Am))

Why would this trail be different?

1. The difference between this and what is already out there now... is that the lakes are all over "No Zip Code Anglers".... You have to fish all 5... so although Steve Sapp is one of the top dogs on the Delta, he'll have to fish Casitas or Castaic in order to have a shot at the Delta too. Same goes for Casitas and Castaic guys... if they want a shot at those lakes, then they are going to have to fish Delta, Oroville, Clear Lake and/or Don Pedro, Melones, McClure etc...

2. There will be exactly 100 boats at each event.. The paybacks will be the exact same at all the events... The TOC Payback is also announced and known. Everything is in Black and White - No secrets... There will probably be a small big fish option $20, but we can gladly post who was in that option with the results so the Math guys can do the math and see the numbers!

3. 20 Boat TOC - If the trail goes as it could go then the TOC will move regions every year... North, South and Central - not necessarily in that order. We will draw the region from a hat and then make a decision on Lakes based on Availability etc... With only 20 boats all lakes that allow private boats are possibilities!!! Could be some obscure lake in order to keep the playing field level.

So far I have emails and or calls and/or posts here for about 20 teams... That's a start.. but, who knows what the numbers will be when they actually have to put money down to fish it. Like I said before, we'd take checks and not cash them until we get 100... then the trail is for real. Otherwise, everyone would get their check back. I think that if everyone wants this... then they'll spread the word and we can get 100 boats. $1250 each is less than the price of 2 Stren series events. Get top 20 once and make the TOC and you get your moeny back plus a little (not counting expenses). I am guessing most people will get some portion of their money back during the season. Expenses should be a little less because of the one day pre-fish.

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:16 pm

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:39 pm

That would be a good rule... We'll put that one on the board for a definitely possibility!

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:47 pm

It would be pretty tough to determine how much money someone has made, and 50K would eliminate more people than you might realize.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:53 pm

I was kinda thinking that myself... There would only be 5-10 guys probably out of the regulars. However, I seriously doubt eliminating these guys will be the majority decision.. But, we'll see!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:37 am

Our opinion only, but we think you should not elimiate anyone from it at all. How many times have we seen, and this is just name dropping, but fishermen like Gary Dobyns have his day in the bucket as to say, bomb out,have a off day, blank & go home etc. It happens to us all. Yet you also think, how many of you would like a chance to fish against the top pros and maybe, just maybe beat them on any given day, because they are human and have their off days also. How do you think guys like Dobyns and Bobby's perfect became who they are. It was'nt from running away from Payne, Thomas and the likes.

I know if we still fished tournaments as we did in the early 90's, we would love to fish against them all as we did back then.

just our opinion only and thank you .

Jigs

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:15 am

Well Tom I go to the coast for a day and you really took my idea and ran with it.....What a great start...first off if there is anything I can do to help get this thing going PLEASE let me know.......

I think the boat deal is great, because it gives you a chance to recover your expenses and the guys who are against it probably don't understand how all the circuits make expenses..Now they do..I hope...The entry fee is very reasonable, because the payback is out standing...This circuit is not for beginners anyway, however anyone's money would be nice...If you can't afford it don't complain about it, just start making more money

If I could change some things about the proposal it would be the number of entrants into the TOC...If I pay that much to fish I would want a better shoot at the TOC.. I firmly believe that at least half the teams should make it...or 50 teams in the TOC, even if the bottom 30 don't get a check, at least they can say they had a chance....With no entry fee for the TOC, they would only have expenses and who wouldn't put up expenses for a chance at three boats......If only the hottest 20 teams make it, that would really closeout some good teams who worked hard all year and still didn't make it....Because going in most guys will say they had a 50% shoot at the TOC....

Another rule for me

would be that if only two lakes from the North were on the list....ONE of them had to be a spotted bass lake and not be Clear Lake and the Delta in the same year....it just wouldn't be fair......................that's why a lot of central cal guys don't fish anymore.............

Great job Tom..

If I can find a partner I will be there...and I am sure I can find someone................

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:41 am

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:26 pm

Like I said before, I really like this idea..................HOWEVER,,,I don't want anyone excluded from this....Bring them on,,NOW,,if you are afraid of another angler, you have lost before you try...If my team wins I want to beat the best....If we start excluding someone, where will it start or end....next you will want some teams to catch seven fish and others five..or only Okie's can fish together,,or worst yet only an Okie and a Portuguese can fish together,,,,,,,,

As far as the cost goes...1250.00 for a years fishing is not that much, then you split expenses and it is really a deal...its a lot cheaper than Stren/FLW or BASS...especially splitting expenses...

Put some things together and refine it down and my check is in the mail.....Just getter done before I have to send my check to Stren....I would love to give Cooch a spanking in the winter at Shasta...Then I won't feel so bad about the pounding he will give me on them muddy ponds.....Give me clear water and 85ft with a dropshot anytime hehe...If you have twenty teams already then drawing 100 after this thing gets out won't be too hard to do....

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:28 pm

I suggest you battle Cooch on Oroville. It's clear, deep, and he will spank you.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:53 pm

JT, sounds like you need to make an all out challenge on Shasta Lake to all commers.We suggest you take on all these guys and include Cooch; Russ Meyer, Gary Dobyns, Rich Dobyns, Greg Gutierez, (spell check on Greg ok), and maybe a few that you don't know, Alan Hunt, Mark Hizer, Stweart Minugh, Dave Rush, Bill Townsend, Bill Hanan, Jeff Michels, Jim Riley, and a few other that are winners and very tough that i can't think of on Shata Lake and Oroville. How about $ 100.00 or $ 200.00 each winner take all, we will hold the stakes for you..

Naaa just kidding,

Jigs

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:56 pm

glad to hear....that makes a big difference in the success of your proposal....

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:00 pm

JIGS TACKLE wrote:JT, sounds like you need to make an all out challenge on Shasta Lake to all commers.We suggest you take on all these guys and include Cooch; Russ Meyer, Gary Dobyns, Rich Dobyns, Greg Gutierez, (spell check on Greg ok), and maybe a few that you don't know, Alan Hunt, Mark Hizer, Stewart Minugh, Dave Rush, Bill Townsend, Bill Hanan, Jeff Michels, Jim Riley, and a few other that are winners and very tough , that I can't think of on Shasta Lake and Oroville. How about $ 100.00 or $ 200.00 each winner take all, we will hold the stakes for you..

Naaa just kidding,

Jigs

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:52 pm

Well Jig's, seems you might not know it, but I have placed higher than all of them at Shasta over the years, except Cooch and Greg and that is because those two have never been in the same tournament I have....that I can remember...old age is setting in....

So you might do a little checkin first.... everytime I put my money up over the last 24 years fishing tournaments I have fished against the best and I think I have done ok...How about you....I've been fishing Pro-Ams for a number of years...I might not come in first at Shasta but niether have they won all the tournaments or taken all the money...

I live a six hour drive from Shasta....What the hell, if we thought we didn't stand a chance of winning we might as well go play golf and just mail checks to all the guys on your list...Because 'God' and 'Jigs' says that only the anglers on their list are going to win and the rest of us are not on the list of winners...What makes you think they are the only anglers who will win at Shasta or anywhere....but if'n you want to put them all on my home lake of Millerton or Mc Clure I'm pretty sure I would come out on top a lot of the time and I'm will'in to put my money where my mouth is, I am sure I have paid more entry fees than you over the years and collected more winnings...............................Besides the dig at Cooch was because he's a friend of mine..................and he 'can' kick my butt on the river..........However when it comes to spots I WILL hold my own.............and how many of the guys you listed have you beaten....I've fished the BASS Invitationals, BASS Opens, WON BASS Pro/Ams and Western Bass Pro-Am's as a Pro...I don't seem to remember your name on the list of Pro's...but I am getting old...and the memory is a little shakey...Enough said....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:09 pm

I have been getting a lot of comments on the travel between North and South.. So I have worked up this as a possibility

- 3 Events in the North - 3 Events in the South
- 60 Boats for each event... Paid in full prior to the event.. No less, No more.. First 60 get in. If we don't get 60 then no event.
-All three events would count towards qualifying - No dropped event
- The rest of the rules remain the same as previously mentioned...

Unfortunately, this would decrease the paybacks because - 60 boats x 3 events is 180 boats in the north and 180 boats in the south.. 360 total boats at $500 entry.. is $180,000 instead of $250,000 which is in the scenario presented previously.

The per tournament payback would look like this for 60 boat tournaments.

1 3000
2 2000
3 1000
4 750
5 750
6 750
7 750
8 500
9 500
10 500
11 500
12 500

The TOC Payback would look like this

1 Boat (36,500)
2 Boat (36,500)
3 6,000
4 3000
5 2000
6 2000
7 2000
8 2000
9 2000
10 2000
11 2000
12 2000
13 2000
14 2000
15 1500
16 1500
17 1500
18 1500
19 1500
20 1500

Total payback would be = $180,000 for 100% payback

With 60 Boats we could do the following Lakes on the regular schedule with no two consecutive years being the same.

North
1. McClure or Don Pedro
2. Clear Lake or Delta
3. Shasta or Oroville

South
1. Casitas or Cachuma
2. Castaic or Pyramid
3. Nacimiento or Isabella

This would kill all zip cod fisherman and offer a wide variety of lakes and with only 60 boats all of these lakes will fish pretty comfortably.

The TOC would be at a lake not on the list for the regular events and would rotate region each year!

For example -
North - Commanche or Folsom
Central - New Melones or Pine Flatt
South - Lake Lopez or Lake Silverwood

What do you guys think?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:48 am

TOM;
I have not been to So Cal for a few years, what ever happened to Lake Perris, seems it used to be big bass lake ??

But it looks like a good tournament schedule to us here at Don Pedro. I am sure because Don Pedro/Mc clure is on the schedule !!

Also, JT sorry to rinkle your feathers, I was just kidding so accept my appologies.

Jigs

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:57 am

More first place money for sure
Don't limit the boats
higher entry fee
I like the split of events, but you really should go back to the best in the state and make it 5 events. Start South with 2 of those lakes, then work your way up to Melones, Delta, then Oroville. Make your TOC for Shasta or Clear lake. I think the big drar on this is it woulf be state wide and not regional.
Don't make the TOC weighted more than the events. You need more prize money at the events. For a $500 entry fee, $500 in gas to drive to Shasta and pre-fish, $500 in motel, food, and misc expenses, third place won't cover my expenses. Guys want afinish in the top 5 to at least break them even.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:30 am

Hi Tom,

I'm speaking only for myself to be sure but why would you water this thing down to north and south separate regions and all. I thought this whole thing spawned from the conversations that were going on about the good ol' days when competitors weren't afraid to move around and prove their skills on a variety of waters, seasons and conditions.

I was also a bit taken back by those that would ask that the field be limited to teams that hadn't won all much or only had one high profile angler in the team. Where's the competitive spirit gone with some these days? Would you really want to fish in a tournament that had a catered, paired down field? What ever happened to putting your money on the table and going to compete against the best possible field that would turn out regardless of who was fishing together? Personally I've seen some awesome pairings that didn't turn out to team up so well.

I was wondering why you'd put a cap on the field at 100 and now I'm wondering it again for 60 boats? In the original scenario, if you were able to draw more then 100 boats would you then payback more dollars? Same for the 60 boat scenario. Heck we've got team circuits now that draw better then 60 boats and payback significantly better dollars and farther down the field so what gives with this new scenario?

My last question is wouldn't it be fairer to the field of competitors if you were taking in say the first event entry fee along with a deposit on the remaining events as opposed to taking in all the entry fees well in advance of the events and sitting on everyone's money for what might turn out to be the better part of year? Personally I'd rather be collecting interest on my money rather then a tournament organization while I wait to compete.

I like the original idea the best of what was proposed and much better then the split region variety. Heck my partner and I were ready to sign up for it. The north south split makes the package a lot weaker to me, just another team tournament circuit and we've already got enough of that going on now.

sTony

Bill Cook · Post by **Bill Cook** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:16 am

Tom- I thought you got it right the first time.

BassTramp · Post by **BassTramp** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am

I think this type of a circuit is a great idea. I think these ideas should be considered:

1. Change the Motherload Lake to Nacimento the Central Cal has some of the best teams in the state they won several boats recently in team events. Not fair to have three events in the North.
2. This is a â€œCalifornia Dream Team Eventâ€

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:16 am

Hey sTony -

Couple things.. I like the 5 tournament 100 boat schedule the best myself too.. but, I want feedback on both scenarios so we make a good decision.

#1 If we accept a full entry fee and then only deposits someone could drop out and forfeit their small deposit. Therefore cutting the paybacks down. With a full entry fee... they could drop out and the rest of the field doesn't suffer with the paybacks. This will only work with 100% paid up front or people will definitely drop out.. Ask Stren!

#2 Sure the paybacks on some team events with more than 60 boats are probably similar or better.. However, do they have guaranteed money to the top 10 qualifiers for the TOC and again 2 boats for the TOC. AC has that kind of TOC and some of the paybacks at the regional events are similar.. Some other trails have good paybacks as well, but their TOCs are nearly as good. This is a FULL Trail made to test anglers of the entire season, therefore the seasonal standings is the real test... attempting to find the most well rounded anglers out there.

#3 The other thing that is different about it to the typical events now-a-days is that it eliminates the zip code angler. Sure you can find a similar payback event today... but, lets say its on the DElta... well, Sapp may be there... or its on Clear Lake and all the locals there will be there.. These events mean that if a guy like Sapp wants to fish the Delta, well he'll have to fish McClure or Shasta or Oroville too... So someone competing with him can get their money back from him there!

No doubt we have enough team circuits.... However, I am working here to try and give these guys what they want and see "If we build it, they will come"

Thanks for the input.... Option #1 isn't off the table yet!

Thanks,
Tom