Mark Lassagne - Re: Rock Throwers & Harrassers

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:33 am

Mark,

I just read your most recent Delta report re: getting harrassed by jerks for fishing in Hidden Harbor. If you haven't already, you should definitely complain to management so they could set their custormers straight on the matter of public/navigable waters. And as you mentioned, you have the Sheriff's department on your side.

About a year ago I was harassed over the same thing by the occupants of a very large cruiser berthed at Ladd's/Riverpoint Landing in Stockton. I emailed a complaint to management and they responded quite promptly and set that couple straight...

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:49 am

I would not be surprised if the people Mark ran into were operating the Marina.

I had the Harbormaster and his hired guy threaten me over there a few years ago. In fact people on the boats were yelling at me as well. They became more angry when I did not seem threatened. I figured this one guy was going to swim after me. I told them to call the Sheriff. Then they started telling me they already had, and that I was going to jail!

Then they were trying to get me to come over to the the dock and tie up. I told them that would be tresspassing, and I wasn't going to do that.

I would love to take a Deputy with me on a fishing trip over there, with a camcorder!

The marina can be private, that means the public can't use the docks for tie up, or the toliets etc. But the marina enchroaches upon a public waterway, and must have permits to do so, even if the marina is dredged out on private property. By inletting the river the owners create a public access.

If you ever get threatened with "Obstructing a navigable waterway.." Inform them that you are navigating! You are not tied, or anchored and you can only be charged with that on a public waterway anyway! HAR!

A.G.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:40 am

Man, it stinks when you have to be a lawyer, too. As if finding the fish isn't hard enough.

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:19 am

This guy has been warned before about harassing anglers... Every year he starts this stuff and every year he gets warned..Just keep fishing and ignore him...Several years ago the bass club I was in decided to hold a tournament inside the marina...We had twelve boats in there half the day....we told him that if he didn't leave us alone we would be back next weekend...before you guys go up there, get the phone number of the local sheriff's and when he says something to you, ask him if he called the right number and give him the number....he will just filp you off and go back to work...

JT

Mike R · Post by **Mike R** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:26 am

Andy,
There is an area called Grindstone Joes that has a section of the marina gated. You used to be able to fish in the back in there years ago but not now. There is a lady in the marina also that will throw a stick in the water for her black lab to retrieve. She has done it to me twice. No one has made them remove that gate.

Mark Lassagne · Post by **Mark Lassagne** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:14 am

I have had run ins at St Francis, Taylor, Sandmound and Seven Mile
seem like a lot of these people think the own the water. I like JT's comment having an event inside the marina. I bet that got um stirred up. The guy was a whimp he had to get the old lady to protect him and she was a wak o. The guy I was guidign was a cop and an x park ranger for a few CA lakes he tried to tell them to but with no avail. Ignore them and they get even more upset, that's the fun part.

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:42 pm

Just to flip this for a minute; some of thses guys have good reason to be upset. (not this guy)

As much as we would like to believe everyone in a bassboat is clean, courteous, and nice, that ain't the case. Some of these folks I'm sure have had to endure bumps and scrapes from bass boats, speeders creating wakes, hooks and lures stuck in to docks, rope, and canvas tops, watch fisherman pee, spit, and what ever else.

Now, I by no means endorse, or support extreme action and blocked access. I just want to point out that even in our small sport, there are those 1%ers who make a bad name for the rest of us. These people who are pissed at you might have met these types.

Be careful out there. Today it's a rock, tomorrow it's a bullet in the head. Stay safe.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:14 pm

Dave and I kinda agree!

You do tend to look at things a little differently, when ya put yerself on the other side of the fence. And although I understand this navigable water, courtesy and such, I can say, I sit out back or in my dock garage, and see a lot of things go on that bother me as a dock owner. It really does change the way I tend to be on the water as a fisherman too.

The whole rock throwing thing, unexcusable. I've found that being on either side of the fence, the calmer Cooch prevails every time. It is funny though like Mark said, to watch them steam , when yer so calm. HAR!

350V RGR · Post by **350V RGR** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:27 pm

Ah Heck,

Those guys yelled at us last year. We were still in Steamboat working our way in,

When a guy Say's "Can you read?" ( I then saw a sign that said "No Trespassing or something like that)

I said "Not really, but I can get buy"

he said "You cant fish in the Marina" We said "Were not in the Marina"

then he says "But you are CASTING into the Marina"

OOOkkk, I guess well leave.

We lived on the Sacramento river for 10 years and never treated people like this. Sure we didn't want BBQ's on our dock. But you should could fish around it.

If someone wants I'll hold a video camera and get these perps on tape.
I agree, if they are already chucken rocks, just wait till this Summer! Better to nip them in the Bud now, Then to get someone hurt later!!

Swimbait Wannabe · Post by **Swimbait Wannabe** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:27 pm

Show those losers this.......
I do love good old grumpy ANGUS up on Taylor too.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 10 WATER

SEC. 4. No individual, partnership, or corporation, claiming or
possessing the frontage or tidal lands of a harbor, bay, inlet,
estuary, or other navigable water in this State, shall be permitted
to exclude the right of way to such water whenever it is required for
any public purpose, nor to destroy or obstruct the free navigation
of such water; and the Legislature shall enact such laws as will give
the most liberal construction to this provision, so that access to
the navigable waters of this State shall be always attainable for the
people thereof.

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:33 pm

350V RGR wrote:If someone wants I'll hold a video camera and get these perps on tape.

I agree, if they are already chucken rocks, just wait till this Summer! Better to nip them in the Bud now, Then to get someone hurt later!!

Can you say "Hidden Harbor Turkey Shoot?" The off limits would be anywhere outside of the marina!

350V RGR · Post by **350V RGR** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:35 pm

I'm In, Just as long were doing the Shotten and it's with a Video Camera!!!!

Jason Wood · Post by **Jason Wood** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:05 pm

Funny, Cooch did the same thing to me when I was flippin a senko at the end of his dock...

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:20 pm

To solve some questions of our CA State and Federal waterways questions........and our rights.... Read this over and do as alot of duck hunters have done --- Print this out..... Laminate it..... and keep it in your boat or even float tube. --Print extra copies for distribution to the the officer and/or complaintant to keep for themselves.

http://www.norcalwaterfowl.com/forummis ... erLaws.pdf

Make sure it is printed out in color on the highlighted lines also.

This was written up by Duckguru on the Fuge ... ~~> http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... t=laminate

In responce to this thread after much discussion, insite and rights interpeted by those that have researched the law in great depth to ensure our rights. ~~> http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... t=waterway

"No individual, partnership, or corporation, claiming or possessing the frontage or tidal lands of a harbor, bay, inlet, estuary, or other navigable water in this State, shall be permitted to exclude the right of way to such water whenever it is requirred for any public purpose, not to destroy or obstruct the free navigation of such water; and the Legislature shall enact such laws as will give the most liberal construction to this provision, so that access to the navigable waters of this State shall be always attainable for the people thereof."

Hope this helps anyone in anyway of proving their rights..... But before you believe these words as gold.... Take the time to fully read them and interpet them yourselves before boldly waving a laminated flyer back at rock throwers.

Dan

Mark Lassagne · Post by **Mark Lassagne** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:45 pm

I like the pdf document. I woner if we can get it the people who closed off grind stone Joe's I was fishing in back once and they closed the dock on me, finally they let me out but I though I was stuck. Thanks for the info.

Mike R · Post by **Mike R** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:34 pm

I'm right there with you Mark. I have wondered for years how they are getting away with that. I see now that they shouldn't.

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:24 am

Mark,

I emailed the Hidden Harbor about the public/navigable waterway issue and here's their response. Turns out your harrasser is the owner and the rock thrower is his wife. Sheeesh! Here's their response:
---------------------------------------------------

"Hidden Harbor is a private marina not open to the general public. It has been for the last 25 years. All areas within the harbor are for travel to and from the slips by those who have their boats berthered here. The "guide" you mention is mistaken when he says the sheriff he spoke to says he can come in. No one enters Hidden Harbor either by land or boat if the are not berthed here or given permission to do so. Those who do and refuse to leave will end up in court. The "guide" chose not to stick around and be cited. The women he calls a Wak O is my wife.

Mark's discription of the inner harbors of the marina as "public/navigable waterway" is simply inaccurate.

Scott Kauffman
Owner, Hidden Harbor Marina"

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:11 pm

Sounds to me that we should have a turkey shoot this weekend in and around Hidden Harbor marina. Any takers?

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:54 pm

The first time I ever fished a Pro/Am in the delta, we were short on time at the end of the day and needed 1 more fish to fill out our limit. The "pro" I was fishing with told me he had one more spot to hit where he always caught fish. The problem was that the spot was about a 15 minute idle into a 5mph slough around stockton that was about 30 yards wide with docks lining one side.
After idling for about 5 minutes he decides there isn't enough time for idling and gets up on pad. Now mind you this is a dead end slough and we are on our way in.....at like 2:30 pm on a Saturday.....I'm pretty sure we didn't make any friends that day. I know the guy puting a fresh coat of sealer on his wooden power boat was not happy at all......I'm pretty sure he threw a paint brush at us on the way out, luckily we were doing about 30mph and he didn't lead us enough.
I haven't seen that "pro" since that day about 4 years ago. It only takes one bad apple to give us all a bad name.

James

Mark Lassagne · Post by **Mark Lassagne** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:02 pm

James, No idea what your talking about unless it was me you drew but I don't think so.
Thanks to guy who sent the email to Hidden Harbor. I was being nice calling her a Wak O but was thinking much worse. I did stop a sherrif almost directly across from Hidden harbor in the big 5 mph zone. I am taking the cop that was with me out again tomorrow were are meeting at Russo's 7am if anyone wanted to verify.

With all of these posts I've been doing I almost feel like a nutcase.......???????????

BTW I am guiding full time if you know anyone who is in nedd please send them my way.

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:50 pm

Mark, I'm sorry if you got the impression I was talking about you. I definitely was not. It was actually Dave and Cooch's post that made me think about that day. I think that you are 100% in the right to fish that marina.
I do think that we all too often don't think about what made those people dislike bass fishermen. The people at Hidden Harbor may have 25 years worth of reasons for not wanting people fishing around their sailboats and docks.
I also sent them an email trying to open a line of communication. It was very non threatening so we will see how they respond.

James

straitline · Post by **straitline** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:17 pm

I would handle it like I always do... If they arent happy with me going through with my bass boat quitly on my trolling motor and cause A big stink.. I will go back the next day with my wake board boat play some rap with my 4000 watt system until the sheriff arives and says Johnny you need to turn it down and I say ok slap him on the back with A smile and wait for him to leave then turn it back up... Then the next weekend I will pull in there with my 50 ft house boat (The Exxon Valdez)10000 watt dj system with girls dancing on the bass pole, and on the bar hit the train horn A few times and laugh!! Then ask them which one they want to come back?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:31 pm

Quote:"My 50' house boat W/10000 watt dj system with girls dancing on the bass pole, and on the bar hit the train horn A few times and Laugh!!"

Can I be your friend???

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:41 pm

I emailed the guy as well. I didn't mention any names and hopefully was not threatening in any way. Merely directed him to the rulings and the law as written in the state constitution and suggested he give them a read since they are not subject to personal interpretation! I may have also mentioned to him that he or one of his people may actually be the one cited and ending up in court if in fact they do launch a rock attack and cause harm to a person or damage to property. I have not heard back yet, but will post the response if I ever get one! Hopefully he will re-think his position, but from the one response above it sounds like he's prepped for battle!

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:52 pm

While Straitline's response sounds kinda funny and I'm sure is something we'd all like to do, looking at it from the "other side" it is probably situations such as this that makes this guy is the way he is!

bassenvy · Post by **bassenvy** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:53 pm

not to hijack the thread here but you guys seem pretty edumacated

and I've always been curious to know if you are fishing peoples docks,ramps,yards,etc what are the legal actions that can be brought against you if you snag up your lure? I've always cut my line ofcourse

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:24 pm

First off, welcome to the forum!

I would suspect that as with anything else, if someone has indesputable proof that you caused damage then you would be financially responsible for repairing that damage. No "legal actions" would be taken as long as the person causing the damage makes it good.

In all seriousness, if I drop a jig on a dock it is not likely to cause any damage. If that jig becomes snagged in the wood and I yank it back, peeling off a 6-inch splinter of wood, then I have caused damage and I would have to pay to replace that board. If my jig crashed into the side of a boat and put a chip in the gel coat, then it would be my responsibility. But you'd better have proof-positive that there wasn't a chip or scratch in that exact spot before I tapped it or else it wouldn't be any different than me parking my car in front of your house and then saying your lawnmower chucked a rock and chipped my paint!

Bottom line is that it all boils down to respect for other people's property. If I can't control my cast well enough to not bounce it off that boat, personally I won't make that cast. Others might. I guess that's why I don't really favor fishing around occupied docks. But if I do I make sure I don't hit anything. And if I can't easily wiggle a snagged lure free, then I consider it a donated bait!

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:25 pm

Welcome to the forum Scott......

James

bassenvy · Post by **bassenvy** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:10 pm

thanks for the welcome guys been a long time looky Lue and respect your guys' opinions

I am of the same mind as most of you guys and was just curious as to the laws of fishing near other peoples property. If its only a matter of financial responsibility and mutual respect I can live with that and go on fishin'. The kill them with kindness attitude never hurt anyone

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:17 pm

JamesH wrote:Welcome to the forum Scott......

James

My thoughts exactly!!

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:49 pm

Mark Lassagne wrote:Thanks to guy who sent the email to Hidden Harbor. I was being nice calling her a Wak O but was thinking much worse. I did stop a sherrif almost directly across from Hidden harbor in the big 5 mph zone. I am taking the cop that was with me out again tomorrow were are meeting at Russo's 7am if anyone wanted to verify.

Mark,

I sent the original email to Hidden Harbor and replied back with some of the points cited in DeltaDan's document (which is very handy by the way--thanks for posting that). I hope he takes the time to verify the law with the local authorities...

If you're going back, please post the events of the day. The fishing *and* the encounters with the owner! Thanks...

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:21 pm

I guess I should point out here that legally there is a difference between accidental or incidental damage and intentional damage.

If I am fishing - legally, in navigable public water of course - and accidentally bounce my jig off your boat, I am not open to any legal action as long as I offer to repair the damage (again assuming you have proof that that particular spot was totally damage free to begin with!). However if I hurl my jig into the side of your boat with the intent to chip the gel coat, then I could be cited for vandalism. On that same token if you or someone under your employ or control chucks a rock and hits my boat or hits me or someone on my boat, then you and/or the person that threw the rock could now be cited not only for vandalism but also for assault/attempted assault.

Disclaimer - The terms "I", "Me", "You" or "Your" are used in the figurative term only for the discussion of this topic and do not in any way refer to either I, Me, You or Your...

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:56 pm

After reading all of this thread, I'm just wondering.

Unless this area is a treasure trove of monster bass, why bother? I understand what you are saying about navigable water and I agree, but why press the issue. If these ingrates don't want you there, then go fish somewhere else. I just don't understand why you have to make such a big deal out of a particular area in an otherwise hugh fishery.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:11 am

Smile_n_Jax wrote:After reading all of this thread, I'm just wondering.

Unless this area is a treasure trove of monster bass, why bother? I understand what you are saying about navigable water and I agree, but why press the issue. If these ingrates don't want you there, then go fish somewhere else. I just don't understand why you have to make such a big deal out of a particular area in an otherwise hugh fishery.

Because, It is the principle. You give in to one, then two, next thing you know it extends to the whole river system and the only place you can fish is in your Gold fish bowl.

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:02 am

Jax, I agree - if it were me I'd just tell the guy to have a great day, thank him for the use of the water and move along. There are so many other places on the delta to fish, like you said why press the issue?

But at the same time, as others have mentioned it's a subject of rights and principles. It is my constitutional right to be on that water. That guy is trying to take that right away from me, and that's just wrong. Taking away your rights always starts off in small steps - a little here, a little there. This dock, now that dock. Before long as Brian said you are fishing out of your own aquarium.

On the delta, it would take some time to make a dent (but why let it get started in the first place?) but if it carries over to say Clear Lake or even a smaller lake then it's not going to take long before you can only soak a worm out in the middle without someone bitchin' at you.

I will probably never fish in that marina. But others that I know may very well fish in there, and who knows? The day may come when I decide to go in there and the owner does not have the authority to take the right to fish that water away from anyone.

Just my $0.02...

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:03 am

Are you sure about that philosophy?

I believe in what you say on paper, but I don't think it is as bad as you might think. If anything, I think it might have the OPPOSITE effect by bringing attention to the issue. While you might think the attention is good, it could be VERY bad. These marina owners could band together and use their collective $$ to lobby politicians to protect them. You all know how our political system works.

The best bet here would be to deal with the grumps on a case by case basis and have local law involved.

Unless like Jack said, this is a huge honney hole. If that's the case, it's time to rush in!

Marone · Post by **Marone** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:20 am

Would this also apply to St. Francis Yacht Club?? They have it posted at the entrace into their haven that no one is to tresspass unless they are a part of their club. I fished the opening to their Island the other day and it seemed wrong that i couldn't go in the entrance in search of a Delta 10 pounder!!

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:33 am

It's not trespassing unless you step onto their dock.

James

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:38 am

Ok, I need a list of all the marinas in the delta that have signs etc. that discourage anglers from entering to fish. I think I'm onto a winning delta pattern here....

James

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:19 am

Dave, assuming you are talking to me then yeah - I'm sure that once one guy gets away with it others will follow. Am I going to go to Hidden Harbor just to start a confrontation? No. Like I said, this one place is realtively meaningless to me. Personally I'd rather go fish somewhere in peace where I don't have to deal with it. But for the benefit of others the owner should be made aware of the reality of the laws as they are written. That was my point. In fact if you read back to my response to Straitline I made the statement that confrontations such as that are likely the reason the guy has a problem in the first place.

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:23 am

Ken, I'm with you. I wanted to express how a further escalation such as an all harbor tournament or other actions might not be the best corse of action.

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:47 am

Ken C. wrote:...as others have mentioned it's a subject of rights and principles. It is my constitutional right to be on that water. That guy is trying to take that right away from me, and that's just wrong. Taking away your rights always starts off in small steps - a little here, a little there. This dock, now that dock. Before long as Brian said you are fishing out of your own aquarium.

On the delta, it would take some time to make a dent (but why let it get started in the first place?) but if it carries over to say Clear Lake or even a smaller lake then it's not going to take long before you can only soak a worm out in the middle without someone bitchin' at you.

I will probably never fish in that marina. But others that I know may very well fish in there, and who knows? The day may come when I decide to go in there and the owner does not have the authority to take the right to fish that water away from anyone.

Exactly...it's a matter of principle to stand up or exercise rights that the state constitution guarantees the citizens of California. At the very least, the marina owner should be made aware of these rights...

fishfarm · Post by **fishfarm** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:54 am

Not to beat a dead horse, but do these legalities you folks are talkin about apply to lakes? I have fished marina areas at 2 lakes (that were not cabled or buoyed off) and was told to leave because I was fishing on private property, and 1 of them was actually a spot I was catching tournament quality fish on. Am I in the wrong or right? Are lakes considered navigable waterways?

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:26 am

The point is, this is delusional. It makes as much sense as myself getting mad at someone walking down my sidewalk, (Which is my property, but a public easement or right of way that I maintain.) Perhaps if I stood on the front porch and threw rocks at people passing by, or driving by it would be OK.

Or how about firing at planes flying overhead? Its my property, I will damn sure defend my own airspace!

A.G.

Its one thing when somebody gets upset at you for a valid reason, but this isn't a valid reason.

semipro · Post by **semipro** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:54 am

FishFarm -

Yes! This law applies to the lakes as well. Clear Lake being the best example. Many problems from home owners who believe their property includes the water in front of their house. As long as you are floating in the water and not touching anything connected to the dock (railings, poles, etc.), you have the right to go anywhere and fish. Period.

fishfarm · Post by **fishfarm** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:11 pm

Thanks semipro....If I go to jail, can I give them your name LOL

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:13 pm

Andy think about this way......

There is a saying about when the Nazis came to take away ____ I didn't say anything, I didn't care because it didn't affect me

Then they came for the _____ I didn't say anything because it didn't affect me I didn't care because it didn't affect me

Then they came for....me, and there was nobody to say anything at all....

Point is just because you don't wish to fish inside a harbor or whatever, we ALL must be vigilant against things being taken away. It is ALOT easier to keep something than to get it back. (Just look at all the DFG Fishing/Sportdiving changes the last 8 years)

Dave- I seriously doubt that the marina owners can coufgh up enoufgh monies to take anyting to the CA Legislation in hope of overturning Our Rights as Public waterways under our current Constitutional Rights. Most likely they would be banished from the sport fisherman of using their marina- and hopefully so as the best argument in againt such action is in numbers of a boycott of said establishments and services.

fishfarm- If the lake is soley owned 100% by the marina owner/private land management.... Then yes they have and are within their rights to impose rules outside of the CA and Federal Constitutions. --If is is boardered by Federal, State, BLM land ...and possibly entities owned by Cal-Fed..... You should be within your rights to fish there up to the high water line. This document is mostly in reguards to tidal waters and our Constitutional Rights that uphold it in a Court of Law.

http://www.norcalwaterfowl.com/forummis ... erLaws.pdf

But everyone should check into any matters further for yourself and others while getting involved in understanding everyones rights to public waterways.

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:43 pm

Well, you don't THINK it could happen, but would you say it is impossiable? We just lost a young member of our fishing family. If you asked me last month if Dwain would be gone, I would have said impossiable.

I noticed this thread going to the likes of a "mob mentalitity" I expressed how it would be better to "walk soft and carry a big stick" rather than specifically instigating this guy through all harbor tournaments, or flashing our rights in front of him. My feeling is these actions will make bass fisherman look even worse as a group. In case you don't know, we are not held in the higest reguard every where we go. There are many people who would not be at all sad if we never ran a tournament again.

In conclusion, I would never support any action to prevent us from fishing, I am a fisherman. I also do not support absolute free reign of fishing as I believe in property rights; I am a property owner. Finally, I am not affraid to go to war over what I believe in, but war is hell, time consuming, and things usually ends up worse than you started. For all you know, the next time you flash your printed rights to someone, they might put a bullet in your head. Then what are you going to do?

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:02 pm

I am not really sure why Delta dan is writing to me as if I do not understand this. I never said I did not want to fish near a marina. I just gave irrational examples of mental property owner behavior that would be illegal.

And Dave what are closing with?

"I believe in property rights; I am a property owner"

So do I, but this guy is not exercising his property rights. He THINKS he controls who floats on the water around his encroachments, big difference!

Anyway, I am getting bored of the whole thread.

There are only three entitys I can think of who might be interested, the Sheriff's boat patrol, Dept of boating and Waterways, or State Lands. I would wager the property under the water is owned/claimed by State Lands.

A.G.

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