Following the Pro's

Jerkbait0071 · Post by **Jerkbait0071** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:15 pm

I'm not to sure how you guys feel about this topic, I myself will not go to a lake or any body of water on the day of, or days before, a pro event and follow them around. I just fell that these guys deserve a little space and freedom of our home town lakes and water ways. After all for the most part we get the Delta and Clear Lake all to ourselves for most of the year. Come in guys when you start cluttering up an event like that just so that you can know their spots and watch what they are doing just seems selfish to me. How about this for an idea,â€

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:19 pm

We trolled around a corner quietly working a stretch and there was Ish and his partner in the tules in the Lorance Boat.

We left them alone by along ways and they left soon afterwards.

-- Can you believe they were fishing the Sutter Bybass???

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:23 pm

What is the difference between watching these guys fish or any other spectator sport. I say if you want to go follow them around all day then go for it. I wouldnt do it, but that is just because I really dont care to. But if someone else wanted to, what the hell? Heck they are getting paid to do what we pay to do. If I fished for a living and someone wanted to watch bring it on. Just dont mess up the water and keep a good distance. If you push away the fans, then you push away the sponsors. No sponsors = no B.A.S.S, Flw, ect.

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:24 pm

I'm sorry, and not trying to be a jerk, but this is really

BEATING THE DEAD HORSE

I think the thread got zapped, but we had over 100 posts for this topic. The general consensus was:

1. Follow the pros and learn something from your competition

2. Don't follow the pros beacuse it's stealing and you should find stuff on your own.

So, it depends on what school you come from on whether you pick #1 or #2.

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:36 pm

the same respect as any fellow bass fisherman. I have no interest in following them around but if I was out fishing and one of them came into my area, I would not back off on my fun fishing. Obviously, I would not encroach on them any more than I would encroach on a fellow club member. But, if they encroached on me, we'd have words. They're not Gods...they're just fishermen who have chosen to make fishing their job. That doesn't make fun fishermen second class citizens.

As far as avoiding a lake because they are there...NO WAY! Heck, as a tax payer and frequent launch-fee payer at that lake, I am a whole lot more deserving of that fishing opportunity than some high paid hot shots who drop in on my lakes once every 3-4 years! THEY are visitors on MY pond! Not the other way around!

Just my $.02

.....NaCl

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:06 pm

Why not follow them? Cost A lot less than hiring A giude to take you out. Just give them there space and hopefully improve your fishing. If you stop learning you might as well stop fishing.

Terry

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:36 pm

Following them around isn't going to teach you why they were fishing a particular spot on that particular day with a particular bait. The spot they fish one day may not even hold fish the next.

I just feel it's better to learn to find your own fish. Chasing pro's around trying to copy what they are doing isn't going to help you in the long run. It's no replacement for time on the water.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:51 pm

(No pun intended! LOL) I personally, would not waist a wooden nickle on following any of these Elite guys around. In what I have seen the past three days, they are the typical kinda fishermen who come fish the Delta, none of them that I have seen, are doing anything special. And quite frankly, if I was fishing this tournament, I would not be hangin' round the back waters of Sandmound right now. There ain't no secretes about this area, especially fer me since I live here.

Yet, as a good reporter, a smart businessman, an avid fan of these guys, it's just way too convinient for me to sit on my boat and dock, and shoot photos of the guys fishing in my back yard. Then provide an insight for those of you sitting at home. There is nothing wrong with me providing the reality of what is happening out there.

Rest asured, I have the utmost respect for these guys. There are no crowds. I never even had my big motor on within 200 yards of one of these guys. Infact, I waved off a number of dumbshat local bass fishermen who were over idling through the channels, and they were NOT spectating! If anything, I was there helping them out. I have a job ta do, just as much as they do. Hell, I've scooped the rest of the bass fishing world, cause ya saw live photos right here on Westernbass.COM as it was happening. I had a purpose, and it was done with the utmost of proffessionalism. No harm, No foul.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:59 pm

Keep them pics coming Cooch, they where great!!!

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:03 pm

I will be up at Clear Lake next weekend when the BASS Elite is there..I am NOT going because they are there..I will be there Thursday thru Sunday...Thur thru Saturday I will be doing my own looking and fishing..I don't give a rats butt where they are or what they are doing...If Skeet Reese makes the last day cut, I might go and watch him for a while out of respect for the fact that he is a great stick and it's better than TV....not to learn where he is fishing..( if I can't find my own fish, then I don't deserve to know where his are ) He says that as long as spectators stay out of the way and show respect, he doesn't care if he is followed..... I believe it is your decision and no one should put anyone down, as to whether they watch or not...just stay out of the way and let them fish...if it is wrong to watch, because somehow that is cheating, then stop watching fishing programs, because that is just the same...don't read fishing magazines, because that will give you an unfair advantage over people who don't or can't read...

This subject has been worked to death..

JT

SacSD85 · Post by **SacSD85** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:08 pm

Yea keep the reports coming. No harm in watching these guys as long as your not interrupting the water they are fishing. It's not necessarily about "learning" something from them, it is about being a fan of the sport. Wanting to see them hook a fish in the areas they are at and see what their strategies are and possibly what you would do different. It is part of the fun, theyre fishing for money, were paying to watch. And if you do learn something great! It is not cheating, its learning from a pro, you wouldnt tell a football coach to quit watching the NFL because its cheating, its learning from people who dedicate the majority of their life to the sport.

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:49 am

Cooch you wouldn't pay A wooden nickle to follow these guys around but you will charge $250.00 to take someone out for A day on the water? Yes you know the delta and time on the water is the best way to learn but it is hard for those of us that don't fish for A living and don't have A body of water in our back yard. I have only been Bass fishing for 3 years ( fishing my whole life) and I can use any information that I can get to help with my tournaments. I even used some info that you gave on one of the videos on this web site to use A top water bait (Splash-it) on the Delta and it helped put me into the money. These guys are pro's and some make A great living from it and I think we could learn A lot from them if you pay close enough attention to what and where they are fishing. Just like the info you give on the Wadda-jig. A hole Wadda fish being cought on these jigs

Joe W.

How many BASS/FLW tournaments if any have you won? Maybe you could use A little help too. Oh was that you I saw on TV today NOT!!!!!!

Terry

Dewayne · Post by **Dewayne** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:28 am

What cooch is saying is that many of these guys have been on the Delta a grand total of 3 days. It is a very complex waterway that can take years to figure out. So they caught fish here 4 days ago in the morning, well the tide was low that day and now it is high. These guys are not tidal experts and the weights are showing that. They are very good fishermen, but you know more about the Delta than most of them. Personally, if I was going to follow someone it would be at the Delta 100% teams where you have Delta experts that know the tides and the Delta.

On top of this, following people will not improve your fishing. You may find a spot, but knowledge of what makes the spot tick can not be developed by just seeing someone fish it once. Some Delta spots only produce (for instance) on the first 15 minutes of a high outgoing in the morning during the early sping. On top of that only if the water temp is in a warming trend and you have good water clarity. This is the actual key to a spot I have fished for about 80 to 100 hours to figure out. Even then it is not a sure thing. Of course you show up and fish it otside this window and the chance of catching anything over 1.5# is very slim. Other spots may depend of the grass growth in the area or what bait fish are doing in the area. There just are no easy answers in this sport.

On the other hand for the $250 you pay a guide they will explain to you why they have chosen an area to fish. You will gain some of the knowledge of why you are fishing an area rather than just having a mark on a map. On the Delta in particular this can be very critical. I have paid guides in the past and will in the future. I have also watched anglers fish areas. Heck, this last tournament I even fished side by side with Brett Hite on water I know very well. He kicked my butt and every other angler that worked the area. I am pretty good at knowing what to look for and I still cannot tell you why Brett outfished us 3 to 1 other than he is just one heck of a stick.

Will I watch some people and cheer them on this weekend. Sure, but If I wanted to improve my fishing I would be fishing myself or hiring a guide.

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:28 am

Terry Smith wrote: Joe W.

How many BASS/FLW tournaments if any have you won? Maybe you could use A little help too. Oh was that you I saw on TV today NOT!!!!!!

Terry

What would that matter? Did I say I even tournament fished? Did I mention winning anything? Did I say I was better than anyone else? I am always trying to learn new things. That's why I come here after all. I can always use help. I'm not sure why my post offended you.

My point was, you can follow people around all you want, but there is no replacement for time spent on the water.

RipnRog · Post by **RipnRog** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:50 am

Terry you may want to Google ol coochs name sometime and then you will realize who you are talking to. Relax my friend and read one of the many articles that I found notice the name of the 3 guys that finished underneath our ol buddy cooch?

Batey Celebrates Birthday With Big Win

OROVILLE, Calif. - November 17, 2001 - Gene Batey celebrated his 38th birthday on the opening day of the California CITGO BASSMASTER Western Open presented by Triton, but he waited until Saturday for the big present. With a 9 pound, 1 ounce catch on the final day, Batey pushed his total to 26-2 and claimed his first B.A.S.S. victory.

"This was the perfect present," said an excited Batey , whose 3 ounce margin of victory was worth $35,000. "This is a dream come true. Every person that fishes in one of these events dreams about winning. I have been hoping for this my whole life."

The Pasco, Wash. angler's previous top finish in a CITGO BASSMASTER event was a second place at the 1998 event on the Columbia River. However, he also had enjoyed success as an amateur in the B.A.S.S. Federation program, winning two divisional events and participating in the B.A.S.S. Federation Championship.

Andy "Cooch" Cuccia of Oakley, Calif. finished second with 25-15 and claims $35,000 for his efforts. Luke Clausen, Four Lakes, Wash. and David Rush, Palermo, Calif. tied for third with 25-11, each claiming $23,000. Gary Dobbins, Yuba City, Calif. caught 25-8 to claim fifth and $4,450.

"I caught my fish by drop-shotting a 4-inch body shad by RoboWorm," explained Batey. "The key was the color of the worm, ayu. Each day I caught more fish than my partners using that worm. "

Batey fished two areas, but said that a 100-yard bank in the Middle Fork section of the lake was his primary spot. The common thread to both locations was fishing the drop shot in water 10 feet deep or less.

Cuccia relied on a jig pattern to catch his bass, working from the surface to 8 feet. He used a 3/4- ounce football jig head tied with rubber skirt and a single tail Yamamoto Grub. He also used a one-ounce jig rigged with a Yamamoto Hula Grub (smoke with green and red flake) in the Bidwell Canyon.

"I fished the jig fast, trying to trigger reactionary strikes," he said. "That's what works best for me on this lake."

Clausen jumped from 51st to the tie for third when he weighed in the second biggest limit of the tournament on Saturday. His 11 pound, 2 ounce catch was anchored with a 5 pound, 1 ounce spotted bass that earned him an additional $800. It was also the biggest fish caught during competition.

Once again the 184 competitors caught plenty of fish. The 156 limits brought to the scales Saturday averaged less than a pound and one half per fish.

In addition to the $166,000 purse anglers in the event were also vying for valuable points toward qualifying for the prestigious 2002 CITGO BASS Masters Classic. The Classic is slated to be held July 25-27 in Birmingham, Ala.

Daily weigh-ins took place at Bidwell Launch Ramp.

By sanctioning over 20,000 tournaments worldwide, B.A.S.S. is the world's largest fishing organization. The CITGO BASSMASTER Tournament Trail is the oldest and most prestigious pro bass fishing tournament circuit. It continues to set the standard for credibility, professionalism, and sportsmanship after more than three decades.

Sponsors of the CITGO BASSMASTER Western Open event include: CITGO, Chevrolet Trucks, Mercury Marine, Yamaha Outboards, Triton Boats, Skeeter Boats, Lowrance Electronics, Pennzoil Marine, Flowmaster Exhaust Systems, Stowaway Batteries, Kumho Tires, Long John Silver's, Gore-Tex Outwear,

MotorGuide Trolling Motors, Bass Pro Shops, Armstrong Industrial Hand Tools, GMAC/ B.A.S.S. Vehicle & Boat Insurance, B.A.S.S. Platinum Visa/First USA.

Associate Sponsors include: Bass Cat Boats and G3 Boats

The CITGO BASSMASTER Western Open event was presented locally by the City of Oroville.

Story Courtesy of B.A.S.S., Inc

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:56 am

Dewayne, do you think if I followed you around all day watched where,what bait ,tides,color of water etc... that it couldn't help me? Like you said it took you 80 to 100 hours to figure out this one spot and if I paid close enough attention to everthing you do I just learnd something in one day. It is like hireing A guide without the cost. Please don't think that I even know anything close to you or Cooch but even the information I get from the reports page from years back help with A starting point for people like me that are new to Bass fishing. Hell I stuck an 11.4lbs at Clear Lake with the help from the reports page on what to use during that time of year.
Didn't mean to sound like I was bashing Cooch just think that the Pro guys do have something to offer other than just an autograph.

Terry

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:05 am

Terry it is true, they do have a lot to offer and a lot for you ar anyone to learn..To me it would be interesting to see where and how they are fishing, but the most important part, the why is something we may or may not learn by just watching..

As Dewayne said there are tons of areas on the Delta that have a very small window for true success..The really bad part is that window is continually changing..This is where the why comes into play so much more strongly on the Delta than just about anywhere else..I would love to be an expert on the Delta, but alas I am far from it..Just another guy that gets to fish it every once in a while and wishing I could fish it every day..

mac

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:11 am

RipnRog,
I know of Coochs achievments and I have even used his advice on lure selections.Which goes to show you that A Pro does have something to offer.I wasn't triing to offened or put him down just triing to say that the Pro's do have something to offer some of us that haven't spent all of these years chaseing the little green monster.

I know Cooch has many supporters on here and I was not triing to offend him or others. So please Cooch don't make me go to the Lounge with the BAD BOYS!!!!

Terry

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:14 am

Terry Smith wrote:.I wasn't triing to offened or put him down just triing to say that the Pro's do have something to offer some of us

Yeah, he was only trying to offend me.

straitline · Post by **straitline** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:31 am

I pulled into A spot that I fish alot yesterday (won 2 tournaments out of there this year)and Iconellie was in there so my daughter and I sat back and wached the pro work. It was awsome!!! Even though he only caught one 12" fish in there. (I wanted so BAD to say leave the toolies alone and cast the other way) when he was getting ready to leave I asked him if he cared if we followed him? He said sure lets go... so we followed him into sandmound where there was 5 other wrapped boats in 200 yards it was cool.. Did I learn anything Nope!!! I kept my distance, Thanked him when we left.. Went back to the first stop and was able to catch fish to 31/2lbs awsome on my 7year olds snoopy pole.. I say just be curtiouse keep your distance and if they dont want you there they will let you know... (They can always get Jim Conlow to work traffic for them)

Dewayne · Post by **Dewayne** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:57 am

It may or may not, you would have to be very perceptive of the conditions and frankly, most people just do not take all the details into account. Beside, after following me you might only learn what not to do.

I know on the guide trips I have taken I cannot take notes fast enough to retain the specific info on areas. I have done both and can tell you that you will learn 100 times the info on a guide trip as you will following Robert Lee. I am not saying don't follow. Heck, it is fun and I will be doing a little myself this weekend just as a spectator. What I am saying its it just is not a good learning tool.

The best water I fish that day may not produce a single bite. Maybe the big fish have shut down that day or the Tracy pumps are on and I have based my timing off the tide chart and not taken into account that they are pumping water South changing the window. Could you pick up that I am drop shoting with 8# test and my co-angler is using 15# test and that is why I am getting 3 bites to his one? I switched from 10# the day before to 8# today and it is making a big difference. Would you pick up that I switched from a MMII worm in the morning to a oxblood as the sun got higher or that all the bigger bites came on plastic with purple flake? There are a lot of small details that can make a huge difference. Confidence being one of them.

Could you maybe catch a couple more fish? Yes, but will you learn what is necesary to improve as a fisherman, no. I watched Sieg catch his final day sack at Clear Lake to win the EverStart a few years ago. Our styles of fishing are totally different though and while I saw a historic day, I am not a better fisherman becuase of it. I cannot catch his fish and I do not have time to figure out the details of his approach and still figure out the variations on my own approach. It is not as simple as going to that spot and throwing a Lucky Craft and copying his retrieve in March.

Pat · Post by **Pat** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:07 am

There are a lot of reasons to follow, or not follow the Pros. I have followed them before, or have gone looking for them because I am a fan and some of these guys I admire greatly. No different than going to a basketball game to watch a favorite team, except the tickets are cheaper (free!) and you can bring your own food, lol. Another reason to watch the pros is to see how they approach a body of water that they are not experts on. Look at the top of the leader board, and see how many of the expected locals Skeet, Ish, Greg G are up there? These top Elite series fishermen flat know how to find and catch fish. When you have a 100 of them on a body of water, some of them will find 'em. If you know the water it is interesting to see how they approach a spot that you know well. You might learn something or you might build your own confidence when you see that they are not doing it the way you know would work it. In any case it's worth doing. These guys expect to be watched, heck the top finishers have cameras on them and their results get shown to the world on TV or the Internet. Key thing if you do go watch them is to give them some space so they can fish and don't be disrespectful by waiting to for them to leave and then fishing their spot. That's just plain rude and not very sportsmanlike. They may be saving it for the next day. Now if you want to move in and examine the spot to see why they are fishing it, that is a good learning technique. I have had the pleasure of driving a camera boat on several occasions and really enjoyed the opportunity to watch these guys and see their successes and sometimes their frustrations and see how they handled themselves when things were not going well. And that is something we can all learn from. Learning from these guys is way more than just finding their spots. There is a lot to learn by observing them on a day on the water. And doing it in person, you don't get the edited version we see on TV. And personally if I was fun fishing an area and one of these pros came into it, I would be inclined to stop fishing just to see how they approached it. It would not be so much a case of giving up "my water" to them, but rather the chance to observe and possibly learn something.

that's my 2 cents

Pat

clayton meyer · Post by **clayton meyer** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:33 am

cooch,

I would spend a few wooden nickles on gas.

I would have to say there is one person I would like to see fish and I don't care where he is fishing. Denny B.

I pitch like I am throwing lawn darts. I get a tsunami wave on almost every presentation.... mostly because I don't care. I just fire it in there and wait for the bell on the end of my pole to ring... works for me $$$$$$$$$$$$

But years ago I thought ... if Denny can catch endless fish on a jig... why can't I catch a limit once in a while.

I would like to see the 30 foot pitch with one foot of clearance under a branch, with the jig reaching back an additional 4 feet without a ripple. Just so I can be impressed in person.

But these guys aren't coming to El Capitan for their next event, so I guess I will have to wait a little longer

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:34 am

Dead Horse

You guys just aren't going to agree, so agree to disagree and lets move on>>>>>

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:37 am

Who let you out of the LOUNGE?????? Get back were you belong

Terry

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:12 am

I think that fans and spectators are necessary to greater paychecks for pro bass fishernen. Television is the key to big prize money and sponsors. Spectator participation on the water at the weighin and those watching hepls to sell advertising on TV.

A guy sitting off fifty yards away from Bobby Barrack all day will come away thinking, "Hell there aint no magic here", and be much more inclined to enter and participate in tournaments.
Im not going to get long winded here but fans really do rais the sportsmens pay in any sport. Discouraging the fans from watching at any level is not going to allow it to grow.
We watch exactly what Tiger woods does but that doesnt mean that we can steal even one decible of his thunder.
I watched Bobby fish all day. He did not fish anywhere that I have not fished on several occasions in the past. I dont think he used any baits that I dont have on my boat. He did not do anything that he will not explain to you in detail at one of his siminars.
But I was totally fascinated just watching him do what he does. What I gained from all of this is confidence that I am not doing very much that is wrong, except that he wins tournaments and that I dont, but I am inspired to keep trying. And thats what fuels the sport.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:19 am

Nice Jim, very well said!!

TWinger · Post by **TWinger** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:22 am

I wish I had the power to nuke these posts.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:30 am

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:41 am

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:45 am

When I first started coming up here it seemed like everybody was insulting people. And just picking apart everything they said. After a while you get use to it, and just say who cares, who the heck are they anyway. I use to take things very personal, and even at some points wish they were in my face saying it!!! Not anymore if someone talks smack to me, then its coming right back!!! It should not have to be that way, but its not gonna change so just go with the flow is what I say.

This site has tons of good fishing info on it regardless of all the BS, which I cause too. I'm here to stay either way!!

I try to save my BS for the lounge these days!!

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:53 am

That why you need an alter ego!

But, You REALLY need to get rid of your avatar! PUKE!

Ralph Harkins · Post by **Ralph Harkins** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:09 pm

BASSK9 · Post by **BASSK9** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:32 am

Hard to believe what is written here. Waste of time to watch the doofus so called pro's fish the delta? They don't have a clue? Would never fish Sandmound during this time cause it ain't no secretes spot? Lets face it these guys are very good fishermen. Most have won hundreds of thousands on tournaments and can win all over the US and they fish all year long. I am sure everyone could learn something from them and he who thinks he knows it all is the one without a clue.
As for me if I were fishing and one of the Elite's shows up- he gets the water. Just as my Brother and I gave up water to Leroy when he and Bernie won a recent tournament. The guy fishing the tournament deserves an opportunity according to my book. By the way as we gave up the water we learned something from Leroy he approached it entirely differently than we did.
You can bet I will watch ESPN's coverage of this tournament but I doubt Cooch will. He figuures they aint nuttin specail HAR HAR and not worth a wooden nickel to observe HAR HAR HAR. He must be awesome! I will join with all in awe and admiration of Cooch's Delta tournament results. HAR HAR HAR HAR

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:13 pm

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:33 pm

ESPN taped the "Real Sticks" on the water today..... 4 flyovers closer and closer on every pass.

The Delta Teen Team !!

straitline · Post by **straitline** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:40 pm

I was just curious. BassK9. how many boats have you won in tournaments??

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:53 pm

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:20 am

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:30 am

I always ask people who look like they might be fishing a tournament, if they are.
If I am fun fishing or prefishing I give up the water to tournament fishermen no matter what kind of tournament they are involved in.
I kind of think of it as the same kind of courtesy as holding a door open for strangers when I am passing through it.

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