trolling for answers #1

[DanWarme]

Since the Stanley Cup is done, and Paris is apparently out of jail, I'm sure a lot of the conversation fuel has burned out around here, lol!
So I'ld thought I'd stir the pot and see if a good thread could develop around fishing. (Could happen)

I've always maintained that fishing aint nothing more than a million little tips and tricks for catching fish. My own repitore must be up to 50,000 or so, but always willing to pick up something new. Some are good, some almost worthless, and some are absolute gold.

My question would be this:
Name one tip or trick you think is head and shoulders above everything else for putting fish in the boat. Maybe it's something that seperates the pros from the wanna be's. Maybe its a basic skill or tactic that you've always done, or should be doing. I can probably think of half a dozen things that seperate the men from the boys. Some things that a pro would do with a snoopy outfit, and still outfish ya because it aint the rod but the guy behind it sort of thing.

I'll throw one of them out, and see what else the forum comes up with.
IMO, one of the critical things:
Boat control. Too few are any good at it at all. Dick Trask was a master of it. So is Dee Thomas. Shallow or deep, controling that boat, can make all the difference in the world. Even where you are on the boat can make a difference. Assuming you're not getting backseated which goes hand in hand w/ boat control. lol

For instance: I had a pro/am a number of years ago up at Oroville. Wind was howling and it was all I could do to hold the bow steady. The stern just waved back and forth. My Am in the back refused to come up in the front and fish with me. He didn't want to get in my way. OK fine, but it was a shared weight tourney. I needed him to be catching fish. He couldn't do it in the back because it was getting blown around too much and distroying his feel for the bait and the bite. If he stayed in the bow with me, it was steady, and still. He could feel the worm and detect the strikes. Something that couldn't be done in the stern due to the swirling winds. We would get pushed all over the place. Well, he backseated himself, and didn't catch a fish all day. Wouldn't come up to the front even though I asked him repeatedly. Finally I just had to give up and catch em all myself.

So that's my biggie, (or at least one of them)
Anyone care to throw in their 2 cents and add a gem of their own???

[Nunyo Bizness]

Great question

I am new to all this as I have just started to catch Bass this year (fished for them for along time), but I can add one thing....listen to what the guy in front is saying to you. He is USUALLY the more experienced one and knows what is going on. The other thing is be willing to swallow your pride if you are fighting getting hits.....different things will work, just be willing to give them a try. My mentor has taught me a bunch this year alone and by listening to him and watching what he was doing, I was able to start understanding what I was trying to do and that equaled more fish in the boat.

My 2 cents

[Ray L.]

Keep your head in the game all the way through. I have fished with and seen too many people get mind f#@%&d when the bite doesn't happen in the morning or when they have to move some to re find there fish etc.etc.etc.
I keep the same attitude all day until I am checking in. I may get upset a couple of times during the day but I fight off the bad and always get my mind back in it very quick.
For me this has payed off too many times to count. I have pulled out checks in the last half hour soooo many times and I think it is because I keep focused and keep my mind in the game.

[Guest]

Hey Ray -
That is a good one. Up until recently I was one of those that would burn out if not on a bite in AM. Recently I have taken 2 9 lb limits well over 20 lbs after 12:00 . Feels pretty good when it happens!

My biggie is leave the dock talk on the docks! Don't try to fish like other people. The way John Q is whacking them on a senko - doesn't mean you can go out and whack em on a senko. Find your own fish and fish your own strengths and you'll be much better off than chasing someone elses fish with their techniques.

So many times I have seen guys burn out because they started chasing dragons that other people were "talking" about on the docks. Or I'm catching 25 lbs a day - and then you wonder what the hell you are doing wrong only to find out 18 lbs would have won the tournament.

[Ray L.]

That is a good one also Tom. Dock talk can be the death of many.
Good post Dan. Nice idea to start.

[hang'emhigh]

With the little bit of knowledge that I have to offer, I believe the one of the things that separates the men from the boys is their ability to find and refine a pattern time after time in ways that are more time efficient than others.

When you are only given a week to figure the fish out like the BASS Elite guys do and make things happen, it really show off their "elite" status. I know some of these guys tend to have connections at a lot of these lakes, but it takes more than just connections to do it consistently.

You have to be efficient at finding patterns.

[mark poulson]

Work an area. Shallow, med., deep. Just because you don't get them shallow doesn't mean they're not there. I see too many guys chasing the bite all over the lake, instead of believing there are fish where they are, and just finding them. We really are smarter than the fish, although there are some days..........

[GKramer]

You guys sucked me in. This topic is why I still have a job in fishing after 35 years. Warme is right about boat position. Poulson is sure right about the fish. And all the things that worked for all the guys (and girls) are right too--meaning Dan is right again for noting all the pieces there are in this puzzle. Leogrande is right for counseling us to know what we know, and then to do what we know.

For me, simple is always better. Simple things usually apply to a greater number of situations. Trick lures are for trick situations--so by definition, they won't help you most of the time. Knowing a lake might help you on tournament day, but knowing what the fish do in different parts of that lake under different conditions is something you can take with you to a lake you "don't know."

I can condense it into maybe three tips:

1. Fish where the fish are. Boat position, graphite rods and $100 baits are useless in dead water.

2. Since #1 keeps changing, try fishing the downwind side of a strange lake--and do it when the wind is blowing. There are always active fish there--for lots of reasons.

3. Bites are better than no bites. The most immediate and reliable on-the-water information you'll get comes from the fish you catch.

[kazk]

Ray Ray Ray

Didn't I teach you anything at the WON tournament last April. Read the water and the conditions and focus.. And no I wsn't sanbagging when I told you we only had 12 pounds. and ended the day with a 6# kicker.


Chris Koda

[Ray L.]

George you are such a sucker for a good thread. I do agree with you that trick baits are for trick situations and also about some of the other stuff you said.
The 1 real key you said in your post is Keep it simple. You may hear it a lot but there is a reason you hear it a lot. It works time in and time out.

[GKramer]

But Ray, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...

[Darkman]

Since I fish on the AAA side.....

keeping an open mind, cant be a know it all

understand and continue working on my weaknesses

focus on the task at hand

always fish with confidence, never loose heart

[Ray L.]

I stay where they leave the light on, Motel 6.

[DAKINE198]

kinda like a lighthouse huh Ray, better than fumbling around in the dark.

[big_gorilla]

I was told something by a big name pro years ago that has always stuck with me and I believe it to be true.

One of the things that separates a pro from an am is casting.
A pro can hit a good spot 9 out of 10 casts and an am will hit it may be 3 out of 10. Accuracy with casting is crucial whether you are working baits threw trees or picthing a jig and craw in a spot the size of a silver dollar.

I took it upon myself to be able to pitch and cast accurately with my left or right hand.

[DanWarme]

Gorilla,
You're right on the money. That's another of my top handful. Casting really seperates the pros from everyone else. And not just on technique, (where they are lightyears ahead of most.) But also on the willingness to get into the cover, throw it into, under, over and through the nasty stuff to get a bite.
If you have ever watched a top pro work, it's like a symphony. Everything works, nothing wasted. Dee Thomas with Flipping. It's like a machine. Every flip picture perfect. Same with Dave Gleibe and pitching. Or Jimmy Huston or KVD with a spinnerbait. It don't get any better.
Here is what I would call the essence of perfect casting:
If the lure can fit into the spot, you can put it in there. Silently, without a splash. And with your line in control to detect that instant hit. (No having a big loop of line blowing off who knows where.) Oh ya, and do it everytime!

[Mike Phua]

We've read thousands of magazine articles, we've read all the books on how to develop a pattern, we've watched all the latest instructional videos on how to drop shot but..........where has it gotten us? Year in and year out it almost seems like the same people are collecting checks and the same aren't. Why is that?

Developing a high fishing I.Q. I think is a major reason as to why.

Being observant and the ability to store information in your memory banks is key...........but more importantly being able to recall that information at opportune times is "Money".

Some people have the ability to catch fish........and I mean alot of them but lack the ability to catch the right ones. Some people just simply lack the ability to catch fish at all and then there's the select few who seem to bring in the above average bag every time.

These guys have the discipline to stick to the game plan but know when to abandon before it's too late. They know when to switch colors because they know the fish have seen it too many times. They know when to fish with the graph off to reduce noise. They know how to approach structure without spooking everything in sight. Being able to recall tips and tricks like these at opportune times is what separates the men from the boys. MP

[Kelly Ripa]

I found that what helped me most in catching more fish and better fish came from time on the water by myself. When unfettered with the constraints of tournament fishing or worrying about where the back of my boat was. I was much more apt to take one rod and fish one bait until I understood the subtulties and nuances of that rig. I have always strived to be a multi-disciplined angler and to add another club to my bag required real effort and patience on my part. To discover that I could do something that others could not with the same bait in the same boat was to realize that I had taken that technique and solidified it so as to be able to use it unquestionably. This helped me when multi-tasking an area and allowed me to make what would be key changes i.e. switch up color, depth, size, presentation, etc. and not doubt that it would be a waste of my time. Countless times I have turned up a bite that while known to me ( say topwater for example ) became a blow out extreme fish count day because of a few tricks or colors that I had used in the past and proved there worth but I would not have tried if not for being alone.

I used to fish with a guy that was ALWAYS tinkering with something. When we found out that salt impregnated worms were good the next trip I stood in disbelief as he fished a gummy worm ( yes the candy ) ...Heck if they like salt they will love sugar!!!! It didn't pan out but the week after he had worms that had been custom poured for him in garlic salt. Those did work ( but I was always hungry when I used them ) ....His only problem was once he learned something like garlic salt works he would toss it in the pile and keep on tinkering. I on the other hand used it to great effectiveness in the next tournament against him and when he wanted to know how I had so soundly beat him I could only laugh. It was his secret yet he just forgot about it and went fishing.

It's true there are no magic baits. I have learned that at times some baits are the most efficient but have never seen a magic all season nothing can beat it bait. That is why I like to have alot of clubs in my bag. So when I come to an area and work my way through it....It's been worked! top to bottom front to back uphill down hill worked. Here is my one tip:

Multiple casts I have seen it time and time again that when the strike zone is small in cold water or huge in hot water ...I may have to put my bait across a fish's nose 6 times or more to get that fish to finally smack it. The aggression bite is a funny one and when a bass plain doesn't like something on it's turf ( buzzbait comes to mind ) I have to sometimes work an ambush spot with multiple casts to get the fish to react and simiarly when the fish are lethagic and slow to react I might have to spoon an area for sometime dropping the bait all around him until I get the reaction.

I found it intresting that when Ray L. and I were partners we threw our jigs and worked them the same way. Ray is a much better jig fisherman than I so I realised it might be his line. Sure enough he had learned the line part of the equation and I had not kept abreast of the times and tinkered with my lines. Do they make a difference. Is a rhino rod a Loomis? I do miss fishing competitively as it pushes you in different ways but sometimes solitude is golden!

Rip

[macinckirk]

Great Read you Guys don't stop

[Jason Wood]

I agree with Kelly 100%... Many times I plan my trips by myself to find new stuff and not have to worry about someone on the back catchin' fish... I can go out all day and not catch a fish and be perfectly happy with what I learned...

[Guest]

That's a good one Jason and Kelly -

I have found that fishing by myself is when I have learned the most. Last year I spent 100 days on clear lake by myself... well sometimes half days or evenings -- but, in those trips I learned more about Clear lake because I wasn't trying to catch 100 fish and be sure someone else is having fun. I dissected spots.. taught myself new techniques and practiced my casting... and even learned a lot about boat control.

[buddy brown]

Great topic and posts.

I think that there are many parallels between tournment fishing and tournament golf. I think that Ray L. pointed a great thing out by staying in the game from start to finish. I saw a Pro-Am golf tourney here and a guy was leading by 6 strokes. He crushed a drive out of bounds and proceeded to come unglued, cussin under his breath, swinging harder, and got out of his game. He hit 5 out of bounds in a row and missed the cut for a PGA qualifier. Missing a fish particularly a big fish can make some come unglued and you think about it all day. You gotta let it go and move on with an even keel whether you do good or bad.

[Kelly Ripa]

I dumped 11... yes 11!!! buzzbait fish in a row in a tournament no less...I actually sat down and thought what would Larry Nixon do? I got back on the front deck and we came in second ( Larry would have won it )....Head games are best learned at the club level as they cost less ....Clubs are good for something? Yeah, it's true you can learn a lot out of a club prior to taking on the world

Rip

[buddy brown]

Missed 11 buzzbait fish in a row? Dats brutal bro. Did you put a trailer hook on the 12 one

[Guest]

one difference between Tournament Golf and Tournament fishing...

There is little to no forgiveness in golf - make more than 1 or 2 mistakes and you are NOT going to win. In fishing you can make 30 mistakes all morning and then in 30 minutes you can make up for all your errrors and win a fishing tournament.

For example:
Once I was 12 over after 7 holes - then proceeded to have the best 11 holes of my life with 3 eagles and 4 birdies and still shot 2 over par and didn't get a check... (Cottonwood C.C. - Monte Vista Course - San Diego California)

take my worst 1/2 day of fishing ever and then drop in my best 1/2 day of fishing ever - 35+ lbs in a one hour stretch and guess what... I win, almost any tournament. (35 lbs on a Jackal Bonnie 128 at Clear lake about 5 weeks ago)


By the way Kelly - 11 in a row is brutal... I would have broken some stuff for sure!

[buddy brown]

Yes golf is a very unforgiving game, perhaps the most brutal mind game out there. That's why I haven't played in a while . The point of the golf analogy was the mindset it takes to do well at both sports. Everything out there can be humbling. The band BAd BRains used to have a philosophy called PMA= positive mental attitude. I try to keep that mindset w/o the hippie lettuce

PS. Tom, if you come down to SoCal. PM me and I can arrange some golf on a tough@ss course w/ billiard table-like greens

[Kelly Ripa]

Not to hijack this thread But I was having a fit I didn't go Brian D. and break stuff but I was fuming . I always use a trailer hook but I was just plain missing and out right losing fish all over the place . I am usually quite good at not missing buzzbait fish. In fact I think I have one of the better hook up to landed buzzbait ratios around but not on this day. Here is where it gets really funny

The twelfth fish I didn't see or feel I run the buzz up to the boat and was rip in it up for the next cast when it ate it at the boat...with my thumb on the line and whipping back to make the next cast I became aware something was amiss when a 3 pounder flew up in the air over my head and landed inbetween the seats back by my partner. I laughed my a$$ off and luckily I didn't waste the line on my reel with this. I think it helped to bring me down a few notches and get back into the game.

[Guest]

Hey buddy...
What course would that be?
I am from So-Cal ... Have played all over So-cal...

Fastest greens I've ever played were at Annandale right off the 134 above the rosebowl.. Those greens had to be 13+ on a stemp.

By the way - Golf and fishing are very similar with the exception of the forgiveness thing. I agree with you there.

[buddy brown]

Hey Tom,
It's the tough private course Via Verde Country Club. Not a long course, but if you have no short game skills you are in big trouble. Greens are the some of the fastest in socal. Shoot me a PM if you come down here. Sorry to hijack da tread. Interesting story there Rip, way to keep slingin the buzzbait after 11 swings and misses.

[Guest]

Sorry for the hijack -

I have played that course many times... It is right across the freeway from Raging Waters... You are right.. very fast greens - nice track.

[L.Mickelson]

I aggree with the fishing by yourself. When I take people they just want to catch fish of any size and are not concerned with future endeavers.

[DanWarme]

The flip side of fishing by yourself, is that if you're the best fisherman in the boat, you're not getting any better because no one is pushing you.
Time on the water is invaluable and you need to do a ton of it to get good. But if you are always fishing alone or with lesser fishermen, you are in effect fishing in a vacumn.
That's one thing that has made the BASS guys so good and something that has hurt us out west where there are mostly Pro/ams. Put 2 pros in a boat on game day and there is no hiding your good stuff. You have to bring it to have a chance of competing and if the other pro has half a brain, (some don't) they are going to pick up on anything good real quick.

True Story:
Everybody knows that Bobby Garland invented the Gitzit, and many may remember that Guido Hibdon introduced it to the rest of the country via BASS.
Here is how Guido learned about the Gizit and how to fish it:

Guido and Bobby were paired up for a tournament day on Lake Mead during the Open years ago. Bobby had the trolling motor and he was literally running his boat into the bushes, chasing the bass out of the cover, and then throwing on them and catching them with a gitzit.
During a non-catching minute, Bobby looked back and saw Guido just sitting there in the back of the boat, not fishing.
Bobby asked, "ain't you gonna fish?"
Guido replied, "Nope. Not until I figure out what you're doing".

Guido proceeded to spend the next 2 hours of the tournament, (this is game day mind you) sitting watching Bobby Garland catch fish on his gitzits. After 2 hours of just watching, Guido grabbed his rod and started to fish, and put his limit together. Obviously Guido learned enough to go on and make his own mark in fishing with the Gitzit. But it never would have happened if he hadn't been willing to give up some time, and learn from someone far better.

That's what Pro on Pro tournaments offer. And that's what fishing with another in the boat who is better than you can do, IF you are willing to learn and pay attention.

I always considered myself a good shallow water fisherman until I got in the boat with Dee Thomas in preperation for filming the Flippin' video. It took me a whole 5 minutes of being in the boat with Dee, to see that here was a man who was operating at a whole 'nother level than I was. I didn't have a feakin clue what shallow water fishing was about. 10 minutes earlier I thought I was the man. HUGE about face! I kept my mouth shut and I paid attention for the rest of the day.

Dee never did take me to any secret spots, and he sure wasn't about to show me anything good. I didn't expect him too. But what I did come away with, was a doctorate level class in the basics, and the core mechanics that Dee doesn't even think about anymore. They are just natural and he probably couldn't have hid them even if he wanted to. He does it right and he does it right every time. Get the mechanics right, and make them automatic, and you are way ahead of the game.

So my advice is:
Do your time on the water solo, it is invaluable. But don't fish in a vacumn. Get in a boat with better fishermen. Otherwise you will get a false sense of superiority. You think you got it wired, when in fact, you don't even have a clue; But it takes someone else to open your eyes sometimes!