Tournament Question - Non-Boater Fees*NM*

Lugnut · Post by **Lugnut** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:19 pm

Our Club is currently thinking of revamping our Non-Boater Fees. They have been $25.00 plus half the gate the fee for quite some time. Now with the high price of gas, oil, etc. we have been trying to come up with ideas on what would be fair to all (I know....Good Luck). I have listed a poll that has a few options. I know there are many, many more but that is what we want. Many ideas to talk about so that we can come to an agreement. Our Boaters and Non-Boaters both agree that it should be changed,but what is fair?

plungers · Post by **plungers** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:23 pm

$ 50.00 flat fee

FATGUY · Post by **FATGUY** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:09 pm

heres goes i'm sure this will rile some but this has been a pet peeve of mine for years.. the only time i think the non boater should be resposable for any of the truck gas is if he rode up with you in the truck . we have guys that go up on wed to pre fish and the non boater therefore has to get himself there and this could cost him 50 for his own gas because the boater couldn't give him a ride.. i beleve the non boater should be only responsible for gas he used... AND YES I AM A BOATER.. i hear the argument that the boater has to get the boat there. c'mon guys did any of you while buying a boat say " geez i can afford this because the non boater will help pay gas. "? if you did you shouldn't have bought a boat ..just my .02 so fire away !!!!!!

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:21 pm

The question of being fare is too much for one and not enough to the other! But the real question is the reason for the Bass Club in the first place.

In our club we have a fat fee of $30 that has been the same since I have been with the club (3 years). To some $30 dollars is not that much but to others it is a tidy sum. Place that on top of club dues ($10 a month for our club) and the cost of tournament day ($15 for prizes money split 5 to 7 ways â€“ Top 2/3 on both the Boater, Non-Boater, and big bag â€“ all depending on the number of boats) you are in for a non-boater for $55 a month, which adds up to $660 a year (hard to tell the young wife your spending $660 on fishing). As for the Boater he is in for a lot more then that â€“ a lot more which I will not count here!

But the Boater is going to go fishing anyway with the club or not and if he canâ€™t find someone to go with him he/she is going anyway that is why they obtain the boat in the first place. We love to go bass fishing! At least that is my reason!

Now to the question of the reason for your club. I have not seen clubs that only have boaters â€“ Why? I only have seen clubs with both boaters and non-boaters â€“ Why? I believe is to show the sport we love to other. Our clubâ€™s common goal is to share and learn from each other and yes we are a very competitive with each other and we have no politics and I like it that way! But we have introduced Bass Fishing to some new guys that would not have a chance to do it any other way. It is growing our sport to support the sport of Bass Fishing.

One way we have cut those costs is we fish only one place and that is the Delta. The closest body of water to us. No long trips to add gas, no overnight cost, and no food costs. The way I see it launch fees is $10 and $20 bucks for the gas which in most cases not enough but I was going to be out there anyway! I believe $30 is about right! I have been both a boater and non-boater!

fishwithron2 · Post by **fishwithron2** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:25 pm

I agree with Bob as boaters has to consider the non-boater has his expense getting there. The non-boater should help pay for gas/oil used and not get zap. The boater has an idea amount of fuel used and should be fair. I'm also a boater and use to fish alot of pro/am and all of the boaters have always been fair when I ask them what I owe .

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:47 pm

Make the fee the lowest that members of your club will allow and state that as a min. non-boaters can budget that , most will offer more, some not. Its never been something i worried about my wife would rather I have someone with me anyway. Somebodys got to pull me in when I fall out of the boat

Just Fishin · Post by **Just Fishin** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:06 pm

I think this is an issue that will go on forever! If you are fishing one area (Delta for example) then it can be figured pretty close. But our club fishes all over including Shasta and Clear Lake and the costs (gas) has gone and or is going out of sight.
We try an do a equal split as best we can. The boater will almost always end up spending the most money and we all understand that. But to say the non-boater (and I have run across some) doesn't need to pay truck gas when they drive I don't feel is right. I fished Shasta a couple years ago and my non-boater drove himself because he brought his wife up, and in the end I was handed 40 bucks for gas. I know I was going anyway!

TrevorGuide · Post by **TrevorGuide** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:46 pm

it hasn't really been mentioned yet, but one should think about the cost of the boat, the truck, the insurance, and the wear and tear that take place, all these things add up. most of the non boaters wouldn't consider a boat because they know that these things are not investments, rather money pits, period. so out of curtesy, out of respect, for the person that ends up cleaning the boat at the end of the day, and replacing the broken parts that wear out over time, for the one that controls the trolling motor and gives you the luxury to fish without putting on those soggy weiders; lets give them some cash. is it really too much to ask?... i am a non boater and half the time i end up feeling bad because i feel like the person with the boat is getting ripped off. that's really all i have to say. in the end its still a good deal to be a non boater even if the fees increase...think about it.

miklanderson · Post by **miklanderson** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:11 pm

I usually give 50-60 bucks when fishing as a non-boater. I own a boat and know the costs of maintenance, ect. Now having said that, if I am fishing as a boater and am given money by the non-boater I usually give most, if not all of it back. The way I see it, if I'm in a bad enough position to really have to worry about how much money a non-boater is giving me, I should not have a boat and be fishing.

Hipster · Post by **Hipster** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:37 am

heres goes i'm sure this will rile some but this has been a pet peeve of mine for years.. the only time i think the non boater should be resposable for any of the truck gas is if he rode up with you in the truck . we have guys that go up on wed to pre fish and the non boater therefore has to get himself there and this could cost him 50 for his own gas because the boater couldn't give him a ride.. i beleve the non boater should be only responsible for gas he used... AND YES I AM A BOATER.. i hear the argument that the boater has to get the boat there. c'mon guys did any of you while buying a boat say " geez i can afford this because the non boater will help pay gas. "? if you did you shouldn't have bought a boat ..just my .02 so fire away !!!!!!

That right there says it all, I hate this topic!!!

When I need someone to start helping with my insurance payment
boat payment(mines paid for) and truck payment then I should not be owning a boat!!! There's a reason we pay LUXURY TAX for these damn things

aNNieNsaLTIE · Post by **aNNieNsaLTIE** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:43 pm

Well I was fishing with anyone, I would pay for at least 75% of the gas used. remember it takes oil to burn gas and time to run any boat. you are using his or her electricity to charge the batteries well. Also the owner does all the up keep. Most of the time 50% of gas fee is the norm.

gate fee 100% if i ride up with them.

and if drive up with them...i would definitely pay bridge toll if any and half the truck's gas. OR the truck or boat, you choose.

i think it's nice having a small gas tank, it take me about 60 bucks to get the boat up there and run all day in circles on the delta!!

saLTIE-

Lugnut · Post by **Lugnut** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:56 am

TonyL · Post by **TonyL** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:11 am

Our club does 50/50 , everybody seems ta be happy.

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:47 pm

50/50 I don't think it could be any more fair.
All the guys I have fished with seem to think so as well. We fish as a team and should share the cost as a team as well. I even split big fish money with my partner, if I'm not in the Dink-master mode.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:02 pm

Non-boater should pay 50 percent of gas and oil for the day, and at least half if not all of the launching fees. The non-boater should only pay for truck gas if he rode to the lake with the boater.

To play devils advocate (which I never do

), suppose the non-boater pre-fishes for three days and the boater doesnt. And suppose on tournement day the pair utilize the info the non-boater learned while pre-fishing. Should the boater pay the non-boater for 50 percent of the gas and oil used during the non-boaters pre-fish?

This is always a fun topic. As a boat owner I accept the costs and responsibilities of owning the boat BEFORE I even buy the boat. I would never expect those that fish with me to help pay those costs. Thats ridiculous.

BassManDan · Post by **BassManDan** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:15 pm

Enough of these structured ideas.
Really I'm thinking along the lines of fun fishing, but I see it applicable to pretty much any boater/non-boater situation.

Odds are if you are going out with someone you know, you already have an agreement, maybe not something set in stone, but there gonna kick ya $30 or whatever.
Myself as a boater, I see it as this. I am going fishing. I'm gonna go whether or not someone comes with me. Therefore, I was planning on spending "x" dollars to go fish. Non-boater, is coming as my guest, and I am providing a service, foremost, the use of boat, and I may toss some baits there way if they don't have anything like it, etc. As a courtesy, the non-boater will probably offer to help with the $$$ burden, in which case, I will say "O.K." or "Don't worry about it." Depending on the situation, i.e. how good the fishing is, my mood, if they are having a good time, etc.

Above all, as a boat owner, it is your expense, you own a many-thousand dollar luxury, and for the most of us, we are not using a boat to make a living, we are using it to "live", and "living" costs money.
Simply put, expect a little something, $$$-wise form you non-boater, but do not demand it!

Just my $0.02

BassManDan

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:01 am

Our club splits everything down the middle. If you ride to the lake with your boater you split the fuel of the truck and boat. We ask the boater what the split is and he just comes up with a number and I normaly kick in another $5 or 10, and I normally pay for the launch because I want to. No hurt feelings and no one pissed off, no questions. We are out there to have a good time and with the price of fuel the way it is and will be, you gotta dig deep to fish with a partner.

ash · Post by **ash** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:22 am

Fun fishing is completly different then club fishing or team fishing. When it comes to fun fishing I am inviting a guest onto my boat I dont want any $$ from that guy if they insist I will not take more then $20.00 But typically "fun fishing" is amongst friends and the respirocation happens in invaluable ways throughout the friendship.

Club fishing or team fishing is different- the cost for the day should be split 50/50. For prefishing if they do end up pre-fishing together sure kick down for gas. I have never thought about adding my pre-fish time and gas into a 50/50 for tournament day, there are times when I prefer to pre-fish alone or with someone else.

Either way if I was in your club I would expect 50/50 not 20.00. Why would I put up my half of expenses in a tournament and the other guy competing for the same money not put up his half.. that does not makes since to me. In this case I would rather be fun fishing where money doesnt enter into the equation....

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:29 am

I can remember several years ago when my club raised the nonboater fee from 15 to 20 bucks.

One nonboater guy was pretty upset,

"YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF US!!"

It was ridiculous.

I don't think some other guy should help me make a boat payment, or pay for insurance. The idea behind it is to help defray the expenses for the day. (Not really prefishing.)

I did take exception to a really good friend of mine, who felt he only owed me for gas to put around Clear Lake, and not help me fuel the truck to get the dang boat there. In fact he rode up with another nonboater, with the intent of NOT paying boater for gas to tow, and thats what he told me. At that point I said,

"I don't care if you thumbed a ride, or both rode a moped. I towed this thing up here so you could fish too."

The solution was easy, I don't tow my boat all over just to participate in a club event. It was like I was providing a free boat service for my club nonboaters, which wasn't too bad until I was up for a year end award or two and the year end banquet was canceled.

I just wandered off on another tangent.

Why not just up the nonboater fees, and have the club pay the boater directly?

Better yet, reduce/eliminate the boater fees for tournaments or membership.

A.G.

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:37 am

50% gas and oil, gate or launch fees.

If the non boater rides with the boater to the lake or river, they should also contribute to the gas as well. If the non boater drives up by himself, the non boater should not be responsible for the boaters "truck" gas.

it should be very simple yet fair to both the boater and non boater as this sport is expensive and getting more expensive by the day.

In Japan a group of the tour guys were invited to fish with a very big club in the Tokyo area for certain 2 day events. What they did was very neat.

The entry was a certain amount. Roughly 100$ (10,000YEN) for the boat (price was high because it was a 2 day event)

At the end of the tournament, each boater was given 6,000Y (roughly $55.00) to cover expenses. This money was taken out of all the entry fees. Now this didn't nearly cover the $80 a day in gas plus oil but it was something for the boater and something I thought was a pretty neat way of doing it.

If you figure out the costs it might be able to work for your club as well.

Just my thoughts:

Kevin Johnson

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:38 am

Andy,

I just read what you posted about the club raising the nonboater entry fee to pay the boater directly, that is basically what i said in my post as well. I think its a good idea.

Andy Giannini wrote:I can remember several years ago when
my club raised the nonboater fee from 15 to 20 bucks.

One nonboater guy was pretty upset,

"YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF US!!"

It was ridiculous.

I don't think some other guy should help me make a boat payment, or pay for insurance. The idea behind it is to help defray the expenses for the day. (Not really prefishing.)

I did take exception to a really good friend of mine, who felt he only owed me for gas to put around Clear Lake, and not help me fuel the truck to get the dang boat there. In fact he rode up with another nonboater, with the intent of NOT paying boater for gas to tow, and thats what he told me. At that point I said,

"I don't care if you thumbed a ride, or both rode a moped. I towed this thing up here so you could fish too."

The solution was easy, I don't tow my boat all over just to participate in a club event. It was like I was providing a free boat service for my club nonboaters, which wasn't too bad until I was up for a year end award or two and the year end banquet was canceled.

I just wandered off on another tangent.

Why not just up the nonboater fees, and have the club pay the boater directly?

A.G.

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:50 pm

Maybe raising the nonboater is too much of an in your face type of thing. Probably, it will discourage continued or new membership.

I think the best idea is to reduce the boater's cost of membership/tournament. Big fish money or side bets should not really be part of this.

I can fully understand the other angler's saying,

" I was going fishing anyway, Don't need a dime."

However, if you are just going to be a member, be in the draw, and fully participate in all club events that season to support the club, the guy should get some dough for providing his boat, and taking the other angler out. Otherwise the nonboaters will be having a bank tournament. And if thats what they want, fine.

By my example, two nonboaters rode up together, and shared expenses to AVOID paying the boater for a ride up/back. So technically they shared the gas money, to purposely stiff at least two other anglers providing boats.

My other funny complaint was a guy in the points race, who demanded that I,

"Put me on fish!"

"What?"

"I am paying you 20 bucks man!!"

Like it was a guide trip.

A.G.

bassrippin365 · Post by **bassrippin365** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:02 pm

my situation is a little different.The guys i fish with except for one all have boats.What we do is take turns using our boats.When your not using your boat then you get the gate fee and pay for the drinks,snacks,etc....it all works out pretty good.As for my non-boat owner buddy,He usually pays for the snacks,drinks,gate fee.

R Marxmiller · Post by **R Marxmiller** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:31 pm

Nothing is ever expected, I am fishing anyway, if someone wants to offer something great, I will take it if I feel they can afford it. Some of you guys 50 - 60 bucks! WOW! Team events sometimes we take my boat and I pay, sometimes we take his boat and he pays.

brambo0311 · Post by **brambo0311** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:36 pm

I look at it this way, what would you pay for a top guide to take you out on his water and show you all his best spots. I just joined a bass club and fish back seat with them. We usually pre-fish up to 2 days before the tournement. Then fish the tournement on saterday, and redraw a new partner for sunday. I have a boat, but actually I like learning everyone's different style of fishing by rideing back seat. I try to pay for everything they will let me because regardless of what I pay it never amounts to more than 50 bucks, and that is a hell of a deal for great fishing. And whoever puts me on the best fish gets a Triple trout or a lunker punker stashed in there boat. Thats my new rule that I hope catches on. If a pro shows you the fishing trip of your life time stash a big money bait some were on the boat (Not stuck in the seat) with a thanx's on it.

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:40 pm

your welcome in my legend anytime... especially you being a service member... did you say triple trout?

brambo0311 wrote:I look at it this way, what would you pay for a top guide to take you out on his water and show you all his best spots. I just joined a bass club and fish back seat with them. We usually pre-fish up to 2 days before the tournement. Then fish the tournement on saterday, and redraw a new partner for sunday. I have a boat, but actually I like learning everyone's different style of fishing by rideing back seat. I try to pay for everything they will let me because regardless of what I pay it never amounts to more than 50 bucks, and that is a hell of a deal for great fishing. And whoever puts me on the best fish gets a Triple trout or a lunker punker stashed in there boat. Thats my new rule that I hope catches on. If a pro shows you the fishing trip of your life time stash a big money bait some were on the boat (Not stuck in the seat) with a thanx's on it.

SABP · Post by **SABP** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:51 pm

Thats right, at the end of the day the backseater has to pay the guy in the front of the boat $1 for each pound of fish of a 5 fish limit brought in the scales.

10 lbs = $10 bucks
20 lbs = $20 bucks
30 lbs = $30 Bucks

Clear lake and the Delta actual weights.

For Folsom, Oroville, Berryessa and Shasta you put in a X2 multiplier.

If the guy on the front of the boat can't produce the fish, he don't get the cash. Har Har

basstrophy · Post by **basstrophy** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:53 pm

IF you want a boater to invite you back pay 100% of the cost in fuel and the gate fee, plus bring your boater a nice big lunch. Trust me, he will be calling you again to go fishing.

<*((((><

brambo0311 · Post by **brambo0311** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:58 pm

SABP

You could multiply by x4 on folsom and still get out of there under a buck.

My home lake I know its tough.

brambo0311 · Post by **brambo0311** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:09 pm

Hollwood I cant cover gas from Japan. I only did one west pac in the Marines, Japan is a long time GI.

I did 4 med floats though.

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:12 pm

I guess it's a good thing I am back in the states now huh?

I never got to do a med cruise and really wish I did, but I have done a west pac, around the horn and a half dosen eastern asia cruises on the 7th fleet flag ship.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:25 pm

Steve wrote:Non-boater should pay 50 percent of gas and oil for the day, and at least half if not all of the launching fees. The non-boater should only pay for truck gas if he rode to the lake with the boater.

To play devils advocate (which I never do ), suppose the non-boater pre-fishes for three days and the boater doesnt. And suppose on tournement day the pair utilize the info the non-boater learned while pre-fishing. Should the boater pay the non-boater for 50 percent of the gas and oil used during the non-boaters pre-fish?

This is always a fun topic. As a boat owner I accept the costs and responsibilities of owning the boat BEFORE I even buy the boat. I would never expect those that fish with me to help pay those
costs. Thats ridiculous.

You hit it right on the head! This is exactly how it should be!

brambo0311 · Post by **brambo0311** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:26 pm

Dont wish for a med float. I was with 2nd force recon. Went around on LSD's flat bottom pitch and rollin things. Spent almost 4 years combat action, it was not fun. Anyone that says it was, wasnt there. I prefer the west pacs, I called it a booze cruze. Had allot of fun. All right no more jacking this guys thread. If you are a co-angler pony up and pay the guy, bottom line.

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:30 pm

I went with other on the vote. I have always been if you want to help fine, if not thats fine too. I am going anyway. I have always been that way and it has come back around to me too. Steve is great and more then fair when it comes to helping out. I tell him no and he makes me take the money LOL!! I would also like to Thank Johnny C for a trip out for fun, another great guy. Jake, Jay, Tony, Tom, Mark, thanks for the trips. I guess it is to each there own but I like to believe what goes around comes around.
Johnny if your boat is ever down, I will take ya anytime.

Don.

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:14 pm

I attended my first event, the Rally@ClearLake this past summer. A fun event for which I could have gone as a non-boater, but I took my boat up there because I got there early on Thursday and wanted to check out the lake. On "fishing" days I got teamed up with three great guys and two of them (thank you Jason C and Marty) ponied up $20 each for gas. It was most appreciated because I wasn't expecting anything and I wound up running around the lake for 3 days on less than 18 gallons of gas.

Point is, if you're fun fishing and a donation is offered, accept it graciously. If you're the non-boater, offer a donation. I don't do touranments, so I'm not going to go there. Just wanted to state my experience and how I feel.

Caudawg · Post by **Caudawg** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:02 am

I'll never forget the look on my non-boaters face when I told him that we were going to make a 1 1/2 hr run up the San Juan River at a tournament down on Lake Powell.
He looked a bit queazy before we got out of the 5 MPH zone. Not sure why...

How much should the Non-Boater be required to pay the Boater?

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