Army Times Poll

hrvestuff · Post by **hrvestuff** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:20 pm

The October 8 issue of the Army Times published the results of a
military-wide poll regarding the upcoming election. rank, age,
service, and even guard and reserve.

McCain vs Obama

Overall 68% to 23% McCain

Army 68% to 23% McCain

Navy 69% to 24% McCain

Air Force 67% to 24% McCain

Marines 75% to 18% McCain

Retirees 72% to 20% McCain

White Non-Hispanic 76% to 17% McCain

Hispanic 63 % to 27% McCain

Black/African-American 12% to 79% Obama

Enlisted 67% to 24% McCain

Officers 70% to 22% McCain

Is race a factor......just wondering...........hmmmm ? ? ?

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:02 pm

Your right race is a factor why else wouldn't whites vote for Obama after the last 8 yrs of republican failure?

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:09 pm

A Black Americans thinks it is perfectly logical and reasonable to support and votes for a Black candidate â€“ do you believe that is Racisms?

If a Woman thinks it is perfectly logical and reasonable to support and votes for a woman just because she is a Woman â€“ do you believe that is sexism?

If a White man thinks it is perfectly logical and reasonable to support and votes for a White candidate â€“ do you believe that is Racisms?

My issues with Barack Obama have nothing to do with the color of his skin (or for that fact his Religion), and my support of Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her gender. It has verything to do with their views and what they believe in!

If Obama is elected as President our nation will going down as a nation of equal rights but if McCain is elected as President we will be seen as the same racist country that the liberal call us now! Just trying to prepare you.

â€œElect Juan and put Sarah a heartbeat way from the Presidencyâ€

Dan McKenzie · Post by **Dan McKenzie** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:32 pm

Marty,
nothing you have ever said showed racism in my view, you are only afflicted by conservitism, but after 4 years of Obama who knows you might be cured.

I think if your sole reason for supporting someone or not is based strictly on that of race, sex, or religion, then you might be a racist, sexist, or religious bigot. They all exist, in both parties. I read the story tonight about a young lady who is a volunteer for the McCain?Palin campaign, apparently robbed while using an ATM, then the piece of crap carved a "B" in the side of her face when they saw a McCain campaign sticker. I don't know what drives a person like this to commit such an act? I have seen enough this campaign to know these issues still exist in 2008 in America regardless of your party affiliation, as well as most anyplace in the world, maybe they always will.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:33 pm

Watch this video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU

CASE IN POINT!

Thank you and Goodnight.

Andy Lippert

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:56 pm

Darn Dan I had such high hopes for you.
I know 4 years under McCain and 8 under Palin will help

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:56 pm

I am just saying that the trolls post will go both ways.

I am also saying that I think race does play a big role in this election because how could people be so against Obama when it is very apparent what the republicans have done to this country in the last 8 yrs. I don't think anyone in their right mind could say that the republican administration has done our country a favor in the last 8 yrs. With that being said why would anyone vote another republican into office that agreed with the previous administration 90% of the time?

Does that mean all republicans are racist, no, but there are a lot of them that are or are playing a subtle game of hate based on race.

My .02

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:58 pm

Dan,

Donâ€™t count your chickens yet itâ€™s not over. As for being a conservative, I must have been born that way â€“ my whole family is democrat (Not Liberals) and I will die that way. Not trying to pat my own back but I have what I call Ideological Compass. That is I believe in my beliefs and values and there is no sway one or the other. Some would say that is bad but I believe that is want makes a leader. A little more on this Ideological Compass, the last President to have it was Ronald Ragan and is the reason he was a leader. It is also the reason President Bush is a weak President â€“ he is too willing to give up what he believes in to have a compromise and yes McCain is the same way. This is also what scares me about Obama, he has Ideological Compass but the wrong beliefs and values. It is also the reason I support Sarah Palin and the reason the Liberal hate her â€“ she has Ideological Compass.

Everyone has some racisms, sexism, chauvinism, bigotry and the reason is everyone is human, it is the way we are build. What makes us better then animals is the control of the of them. As for religious bigotry or ant-religious bigotry is a complete point of view of each person. Yes I like to think of myself as being religious (I accept Jesus) but you get me in the right mood I will cuss you out like a drunken sailor does that make me a bigot, no it makes me human.

Remember there is still 12 days left in this campaign and it is close! What I hoping for is who every wins (which will be Palin and McCain), wins both the Electoral College and the popular vote because if McCain will the Electoral College and not the popular vote there will be trouble in streets.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:58 pm

Andy,

That link was sent to me today but it would not come up â€œit stated it was taken downâ€

Dan McKenzie · Post by **Dan McKenzie** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:11 pm

I like giving Marty a little ribbing. Funny thing is, I've met Marty 2x, and I see him on the river, fished a tournament and talked with him at the event, and he wouldn't know me from Adam

. In fact I waved to him last weekend as I went by him, they say the mind is the first thing to go. In spite of having some different opinions, I think he's like you, an old softy, with a big heart, but you both being old salts you can't show it, you just go about it real quite like so nobody knows about it.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:19 pm

Dave â€“ in your point of view the last 8 years were really bad (I donâ€™t see it that way) but let us go head and agree that the last 8 years were the worst of times. Is that a reason to let our country fall into Socialism. I will even state that McCain and Bush are one in the same in their Modernism and will give up to mush to the Left. But Obama is not the answer. Look with in yourself and ask is Socialism the solution?

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:24 pm

Dan,

If I have talked to you twice and did not realize who you were, I sorry! Next time say who you are! Who are you comparing me too â€“ I hope not McCain.
Plus who you calling an old softy â€“ I run your young bAss into the ground!

The People · Post by **The People** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:09 pm

hrvestuff wrote:The October 8 issue of the Army Times published the results of a
military-wide poll regarding the upcoming election. rank, age,
service, and even guard and reserve.

I tried searching for this poll through the Army Times online search engine, and couldn't find it. Do you have a link you can provide to the numbers you quote, along with who conducted the poll?

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:25 am

I tried to, could'nt find it But I was not able to axcess all of the web site not having a login code.

Is it in part that only service members or subcribers can get too?

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:33 am

Here you go buddy.

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/pro ... ep_2pp.pdf

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/pro ... ep_2pp.pdf

Lemme know if you have any more questions or want to try and refute any of the polls. I may be able to once again point you in the RIGHT direction.

Andy Lippert

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:51 am

Thanks Andy

And thanks for your service.

God Bless America

The People · Post by **The People** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:54 am

"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services."

If you read the article that accompanies the poll, you'd think it was written by FauxNews. Talk about pointing someone in the RIGHT direction.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:00 am

Yep, I dont know that it was done with this poll, BUT I know, none of the polls that show Obama ahead are slanted in any way

BULLC*&^

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:10 am

The People wrote:"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services."

.

Therefore, the group that was surveyed is comprised of wiser and more experienced people.
Thanks for pointing this out.

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:11 am

The People wrote:"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services."

.

Therefore, the group that was surveyed is comprised of wiser and more experienced people.
Thanks for pointing this out.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:14 am

The funny thing is, is that I interact with hundreds of Marines a day, and the only Marines I know that are voting for obama are of african american descent. It's obvious...

Another sidenote...Myself and most of the Marines I interact with on a daily basis have a higher security clearance than obama would be able to obtain should he join the service and apply for a TS clearance. Pretty laughable if you ask me. And we're going to trust this guy with the presidency.

Whatever though...He's gonna cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans...and he's not McSame or George W. Bush's clone. Ffffff it. Let's put him in the white house. My money is what's most important to me. F morality and capitalism. And who needs guns anyway?....while we're at it. obama 08!

....it's tough to even fake thinking like a liberal. Eeeash.

Andy Lippert

Dan McKenzie · Post by **Dan McKenzie** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:21 am

just like an old retired Army guy, gonna throw down a challenge.
do you get up to an alarm clock that bugles Reveille every morning? call the troops to muster, where is that damn cat and dog, it's 0500 and they're not in formation!!!

I worked for our Command Master Chief for several years while in the Navy, I always had this vision that there was no seperation between home and work, that he ran everything the same, then I got to meet his wife and I realized he had a "boss" after all.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:31 am

The People wrote:"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services."

If you read the article that accompanies the poll, you'd think it was written by FauxNews. Talk about pointing someone in the RIGHT direction.

Yes you are correct but non-like other polls the Military Times will tell you who and how the polled was conduced. Plus the sample is a larger then polls run by ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, and Fox. Take it from me the Military vote will always go Conservative you see Liberals usually donâ€™t like defending their Country they are more in tune to put it down. The point is that Black Military on the most part will vote their race. Is that Racisms?

Sampling the military

Posted : Sunday Oct 5, 2008 11:28:43 EDT

The Military Times 2008 Election Poll is the latest in a series of efforts to gauge the attitudes and opinions of a crucial but hard-to-measure group: members of the U.S. military.
To gather military opinion on this yearâ€™s presidential election, Military Times began with a list of more than 80,000 subscribers and former subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times and Air Force Times who gave the papers their e-mail addresses.
Each was e-mailed an invitation to participate through a secure Internet page. Security measures ensured that readers could not submit multiple entries and that only those who received an invitation could respond.
From Sept. 22 to Sept. 29, 2,813 active-duty members, 1,480 members of the National Guard or reserve and 4,411 retirees participated. The figures include only those respondents who indicated they are registered and intend to vote in the election. Chart totals may not equal 100 percent because of the rounding of figures.
Although public opinion pollsters use random selection to survey the general public, the Military Times survey is based on responses from those who chose to participate. That means it is impossible to calculate statistical margins of error commonly reported in opinion surveys, because those calculations depend on random sampling techniques.
The voluntary nature of the survey could affect the results â€” if supporters of one candidate are more prone to express their opinions, for example. The dependence on e-mail could also affect the results, because e-mail users may have different characteristics than the military population as a whole.
Characteristics of Military Times readers may also affect the results. The group surveyed is significantly older than the military as a whole, and the survey group contains a higher percentage of officers than is present in the military.
Conversely, junior enlisted troops, women and racial and ethnic minorities made up a smaller share of the sample than of the military at large. While it is difficult to predict how those factors affect the results, those groups are generally regarded as more supportive of Democratic candidates.
More details, including some of the data from the survey, are available online at http://www.militarytimes.com.
Researchers interested in obtaining data can contact database reporter Brendan McGarry at bmcgarry@atpco.com.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:36 am

Dan McKenzie wrote:then I got to meet his wife and I realized he had a "boss" after all.

Dan your right about that â€“ I can be â€œAll I can Beâ€

hrvestuff · Post by **hrvestuff** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:11 am

The People wrote; [quote]"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services."

It's obvious you have little or no connection with military families, or those who have served in Iraq, Afghanistan, et al. These people are very much aware of the difference between B. Hussein Obama and McCain. And they are voting, will vote, for someone they can respect as Commander-in-Chief and it sure as hell won't be Barack Hussein Obama.
-hrvestuff

The People · Post by **The People** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:18 pm

hrvestuff wrote: It's obvious you have little or no connection with military families, or those who have served in Iraq, Afghanistan, et al. These people are very much aware of the difference between B. Hussein Obama and McCain. And they are voting, will vote, for someone they can respect as Commander-in-Chief and it sure as hell won't be Barack Hussein Obama.
-hrvestuff

You have no idea who I am or what my affiliation with the military or military families are. Nor if I've lost a loved one in Iraq or Afghanistan.

You also seem to have no idea which of the candidates has recieved more, both in numbers and total dollars, in campaign contributions from military families.

And please, do all of us on the left a favor -- keep referring to Barrack Obama as "B. Hussein Obama." Whether you've yet realized or not, that kind of idiocy and political slander is part of what has given Obama his commanding lead.

The People · Post by **The People** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:40 pm

Marty wrote: Yes you are correct but non-like other polls the Military Times will tell you who and how the polled was conduced. Plus the sample is a larger then polls run by ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, and Fox. Take it from me the Military vote will always go Conservative you see Liberals usually donâ€™t like defending their Country they are more in tune to put it down. The point is that Black Military on the most part will vote their race. Is that Racisms?

All pollsters report who was polled and how the poll was conducted. That's where their margin of error comes from.

Military personnel and families have indeed traditionally voted Republican, but I wonder if that is as much a function of their true beliefs as it is the fact that Armed Services Radio, and the Military Times, as two primary providers of "news and information" to the troops have traditionally carried exclusively conservative content. The Military Times is not even run by the military or any branch of government. It is owned and opperated by Garrett Co. Inc, a private company.

If you're ready to accuse black military members of voting their race regardless of policy, you'd better be ready to accept the reverse accusation that white military members also vote their race regardless of policy. So, which is racism, and which isn't? The fact that the Military Times chose to point out the former rather than the latter speaks volumes about their bent, don't you think?

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:42 am

IDIOTS!!

Race should NOT be a factor, but since everyone makes it one lets set this crap straight.

OBAMA IS 50% WHITE! His degenerate mother is as pale as George Bush.

OBAMA'S FATHER IS 50% NORTH AFRICAN TRIBAL, AND 50% SOUTH ARRICAN BUSHMAN, AND 50 % CENTRAL ARFICAN......BASICALLY HE HAS DARK SKIN AND IS FROM AFRICA, SO WHAT.

THIS ADDS UP TO OBAMA NOT BEING AN AFRICAN AMERICAN, BUT RATHER JUST AN AMERICAN. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME!!!!!!!! YOU HAD NO CHOICE HOW YOU CAME OUT OF YOUR MAMA. THERE IS NO CHECKLIST TO CHOOSE YUR SKIN COLOR WHILE YOU ARE IN THE WOMB.

Now Tell Jerks like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton to knock off the race baiting and we will be a much better world.

thank you.

smittyfish · Post by **smittyfish** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:03 am

I never thought I would ever agree with Fishn' Dave.

But you hit the nail on the head and ar exactly right. Forget race and concentrate on the issues.

I don't care if the guy is green or purple as long as I like his views.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:07 am

Fishin' Dave wrote:IDIOTS!!
OBAMA'S FATHER IS 50% NORTH AFRICAN TRIBAL, AND 50% SOUTH ARRICAN BUSHMAN, AND 50 % CENTRAL ARFICAN......BASICALLY HE HAS DARK SKIN AND IS FROM AFRICA, SO WHAT.

I like your math Dave.

Reminds me of an old farmer named Fat Tettam.

"Hey Fat, how are you gonna split up the acreage when Albert dies?"

"Well, I get half, Bud gets half and Ray gets half and the rest goes to the other brother."

But I know what you meant

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:06 pm

A response to Marty, and a response to harvey but no response to me? I figured so.

The military times is IN NO WAY a conservative paper. It actually gets hammered quite often for leaning the other way. But either case.

A huge reason as to why b. Hussein obama has gotten a lot of funding from the military is because he has promised to bring us "home" sooner than John McCain. That's all there is to it. Military members who don't want to be in Iraq, people who never really signed up to fight, and are finding themselves in Iraq for the third time for 12 months, are willing to do anything (i.e. dish out large amounts of cash) to get home quicker. Nothing more, nothing less. Campaign contributions for each candidate have been the opposite of the polls. It doesn't matter how much money you get, if that money is coming from a minority of the populace.

Andy

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:03 pm

Ronald Reagan was good with math like that also.

The People · Post by **The People** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:53 pm

If you're looking for some sort of affirmation through a response, here you go.

Andy Lippert wrote:It doesn't matter how much money you get, if that money is coming from a minority of the populace.

It's actually quite the opposite. The donations coming in for Obama are far greater in number, but far smaller in average denomination, than those coming in for McCain.

There. You exist.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:47 am

[quote="Marty"]A Black Americans thinks it is perfectly logical and reasonable to support and votes for a Black candidate â€“ do you believe that is Racisms?

â€œElect Juan and put Sarah a heartbeat way from the Presidencyâ€

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:44 am

Just asking a question

If I take $20,000,000 dollars and divide it into $100 stacks and mail it off to john McCain with differnt names on it. Does that count as a lot of people giving just a little? Would it keep it under the reporting level?

And before you guys start yelling is it possible to do ?

just wondering?

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 am

My name is Andy Lippert. I'm a U.S. Marine. I've done 5 deployments, two of which were to combat zones. I don't think I need any more validity. Thanks.

If I needed a response from a misguided liberal to "affirm" my existence, I'd be in sad sad shape. You, on the other hand, use a nameless handle, and have never come out and said who you actually are...So who, here, is the person needing affirmation?

Andy Lippert

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:52 pm

The Person wrote: If you're ready to accuse black military members of voting their race regardless of policy, you'd better be ready to accept the reverse accusation that white military members also vote their race regardless of policy. So, which is racism, and which isn't? The fact that the Military Times chose to point out the former rather than the latter speaks volumes about their bent, don't you think?

What I think is you are â€œWonder Breadâ€

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:10 pm

Marty wrote:It is not racisms to vote for ones kind you dip shlt.

Oh Marty, what would your momma say?

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:16 pm

Greg_Cornish wrote:
Marty wrote:It is not racisms to vote for ones kind you dip shlt.
Oh Marty, what would your momma say?

Do you really what to know what my momma would say? She did not like White and Black and like Obama she did it with a smile. O Man, did I just throw my momma under the bus to make a point!

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:04 pm

Marty wrote:
Greg_Cornish wrote:
Marty wrote:It is not racisms to vote for ones kind you dip shlt.
Oh Marty, what would your momma say?
Do you really what to know what my momma would say? She did not like White and Black and like Obama she did it with a smile. O Man, did I just throw my momma under the bus to make a point!

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:27 pm

FishaHallic wrote:
Marty wrote:
Greg_Cornish wrote:Oh Marty, what would your momma say?
Do you really what to know what my momma would say? She did not like White and Black and like Obama she did it with a smile. O Man, did I just throw my momma under the bus to make a point!

The People · Post by **The People** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:04 pm

Andy Lippert wrote:My name is Andy Lippert. I'm a U.S. Marine. I've done 5 deployments, two of which were to combat zones. I don't think I need any more validity. Thanks.

If I needed a response from a misguided liberal to "affirm" my existence, I'd be in sad sad shape. You, on the other hand, use a nameless handle, and have never come out and said who you actually are...So who, here, is the person needing affirmation?

Andy Lippert

Thank you for your service, Andy.

It's too bad that you didn't read my last response to you for what it really was: a bit of a joke at (granted) your expense. There was no disrespect intended. When I typed it, I thought it was funny. Still do.

I don't use my real name because it shouldn't matter. Would it matter if my name was Frank or Tom? or Mary or Judy? or Mohammed or Reggie or Pablo for that matter? I'm an American, I assure you of that. That's all that should matter. If you thought that my opinion was less worthy of being heard than was yours because of how I represent myself here, then you would be, in your words, in a sad sad state. And in fact, you would have forgotten what it means to be an American.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:24 am

No most people do not use their name so they can hide,
100 years ago robbers used masked.

In the 70s when CBs were the rage, some mild little mouse, could be an ***, because no one knew who he was[ and that still goes on today]

now through the internet we have you . Same mold.
at least Fishahater gives a name[ Ipersonely dont know ifs it true but?] most of us on this forum are known to at least post on the fishing side

Then we have you, we dont know if you are even American, maybe a cruiser, getting his laughs here at or expence?

and last but not least, THE PEOPLE, you wish

The People · Post by **The People** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:57 am

I guess this conversation is over. Nobody wishes to reply to my content, so you have resorted to personal attacks and attempts to discredit me because of my name. Sound familiar?

Ask yourself if personal attacks and anger are in your nature, or if you've learned these tactics from right-wing politicians and talkers who resort to the same childish responses when they can't reply to the content presented to them from the other side.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:08 am

The Person wrote:"Ask yourself if personal attacks and anger are in your nature"

No Conservative are not in the habit of personal attacks but we are learning our lessons - You can say shame on you for the first one â€“ but when it happens twice it is shame on us!

The Person wrote:"If you've learned these tactics from right-wing politicians and talkers who resort to the same childish responses"

No Conservative are learning it from the Left Wing Liberals as yourself!

You Liberals have been resorting to personal attacks for years and it is working â€“ we must go on the offence!
I only have to be kicked in the ball once to learn to kick back! This is one thing I have learned from the Liberals.

Of course you can end this just by stating who you are. Your point of view will then be respected, we may not agree but it will be respected! You look at FishaHallic (Dave), Jeff C, and Dan McKenzie state their positions all of the time but we respect the right to have an opinion other then what we have! The reason is we know they are part of the family of Bass Fisherman which we donâ€™t believe you are.

But you will bowl out and be like all of the other Left Wing Liberals.

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