I dont get it

[ash]

Driving from NorCal to SoCal on Sunday I was going past Lake Pyramid and the damn thing was FULL - OK maybe three feet low - but FULL. So thats where the Delta water is at.... it kinda pizzed me off knowing that the Northern Resiviors are EMPTY and Pyramid is full and generating power.....

[mark poulson]

Ash,
Even though Pyramid has water, I don't think much of it is Delta water. Castaic has fluctuated about 2' in the past month, and that tells me they're only importing about the 1' a day that is normal daily use.
You can go on the CA Gov. website and check it out.
I know the Aqueduct people had contracts with water users, like the Metropolitan Water District, who have the right to take a certain amount of water whenever they need it. They serve mostly OC, so our lakes go down according to their needs, not ours. We're just like you NoCal guys, some one else's beech!

[crawdaddy]

Ash,

I also think they got more rain than us this year. All the storms seemed to have dumped north and south of us.

[Topwater Terry]

Ash, it's like the Vegas people being pissed at the folks in Havasu because Havasu is full! Havasu and Mohave are almost always full, Powell and Mead are never full. Pyramid is almost always full except on Fridays and the weekend when power is not needed as much. Castaic can be much lower while Pyramid is usually full or close to it. They need more water to generate the power.
Besided, Pyramid is only 1300 acres, not enough to make a difference at Folsom or anywhere else up north.

[Obi-Hub]

Ash,

Don't get yer panties in twist... (now there's a visual I didn't need )

In all reality, Pyramid doesn't hold a lot of water. It is basically just a pond compared to NorCal Lakes. It is usually full because it is a staging pond to pass water back and forth to Castaic for power generation. A better reference for water "takeage" is the water level is Castaic.

Obi

ps. It is one of the last lakes on the CA Aqueduct system so the water that is taken out before has to end up somewhere

[fish_food]

So thats where the Delta water is at.... it kinda pizzed me off knowing that the Northern Resiviors are EMPTY and Pyramid is full and generating power.....

As much as we dislike our water being exported south, the majority of these exports are going to Central Valley ag interests--a whopping 80%. You should channel 80% of your anger toward Westlands Water District (and their cotton farming/water intensive users whose crops are all for export overseas, of course) and 20% to southern CA water wasters...

[FSHRFWL]

WOW you have no clue about westlands water and what agriculture is all about! These guys FEED YOU AND YOUR FAMILY! If its all exported then what the hell are you eating and wearing every day? A vast majority of those crops are on micro drip systems. Farmers are some of the biggest water conservationists around! They DO NOT waste water because it is super expensive! Do you think this state is hurting bad now just wait untill you drive the ag industry out. Most have no idea just how big agriculture is in this state. It is huge, California is the #1 producer of dozen of crops, we produce more than some entire states. Now go ahead and keeps those pumps off for the precious smelt and when you have it import all your food and pay twice the price dont complain. They arent even growing cotton down there anymore because you have taken all thier water, so now we can export even more China cotton. When all those down there are out of work I hope YOU are happy. California is ONE state its OUR water, not north vs south. SUPPORT THE FARMERS THAT FEED YOUR FACE!!!

[fish_food]

A vast majority of those crops are on micro drip systems. Farmers are some of the biggest water conservationists around! They DO NOT waste water because it is super expensive! Do you think this state is hurting bad now just wait untill you drive the ag industry out. Most have no idea just how big agriculture is in this state. It is huge, California is the #1 producer of dozen of crops, we produce more than some entire states. Now go ahead and keeps those pumps off for the precious smelt and when you have it import all your food and pay twice the price dont complain. They arent even growing cotton down there anymore because you have taken all thier water, so now we can export even more China cotton. When all those down there are out of work I hope YOU are happy. California is ONE state its OUR water, not north vs south. SUPPORT THE FARMERS THAT FEED YOUR FACE!!!

You mean the same conservation practices that led to Kesterson type incidences?

Yea, right...the water lobby would love to have John Q. Public believe all the heartland-feeding-America schmaltz about the "small time family farmer" eaking out a living. There's so much published material on Central Valley agribusiness that one doesn't have to expend much effort to read up on their past record.

There's still lots of subsidized cotton farming going on--the Central Valley typically ranked as the 2nd largest cotton producing region in the nation and it's only been on the decline recently, mostly due to competing interests from dairy farming, encroaching land development and rising costs. It's still a subisidized, water intensive crop where the bulk of it is sold to China.

If its all exported then what the hell are you eating and wearing every day?

Yes, the bulk of northern CA water IS EXPORTED to points south. A small amount goes to the Bay Area urban usage but it's a fact that most of it goes south to Central Valley agribusiness.

[mm]

Hey fish food, maybe you should do a little research before you go spewing a bunch of BS.
Last I heard, Westlands water alottment to their growers for 2009 was or is o%, ZERO.
The only water SOME growers may get is water left over from their very small 2008 alottment.
You would have unknowing people thinking that Westlands growers are wasting water.
Well, guess what. Westlands growers, over the last decade or more have spent billions on water conservatoin and water saving irrigation systems only to have a bunch of crap like this thrown in their face for it. Not to mention alot of growers are not farming all of their land.
Who do you think feeds you, the grocery store??
Do you think the water they get is free??? Think again!
Oh Ya,the cotton. What cotton???
If you cared to do a little more research before getting on here with your BS, you would have probably found that the Westlands areas cotton acreage is maybe10% of what it once was, maybe.
I live and breathe fishing like most guys on this forum, but I can`t stand by and see you bash the farmer.
We all need the food these guys produce, or would you rather import all of our food?
You really don`t seem to have a clue as to the water situation in our state.

[fish_food]

Last I heard, Westlands water alottment to their growers for 2009 was or is o%, ZERO.
The only water SOME growers may get is water left over from their very small 2008 alottment.

That's a perfect illustration--it wasn't until VERY recently that they weren't able to get the water they wanted.

And no one said agriculture wasn't important to the state. The focus was on who controls and gets water, and to who's detriment.

[mm]

Ya, a perfect illistration of what happens during times of drought. Guys like you always seem to twist things like this around.
Its not the water they want, its the water they NEED to feed your ungreatful face!!!
What do you think the Central Valley Project, the Delta/Mendota Canal,and the Aqueduct were all constructed for all those years ago? Not the Delta Smelt!

[fish_food]

What do you think the Central Valley Project, the Delta/Mendota Canal,and the Aqueduct were all constructed for all those years ago? Not the Delta Smelt!

And after how many decades, Westlands is still socking it to the taxpayers over construction of the CVP--so far, they've paid back less than $60M of their $442M share for building it. You can keep bringing up the stuff about "who feeds your face," the nobility of the agricultural tradition, etc but the truth is, Westlands irrigators get their subsidized water at below market prices and they usually get what they want through backroom deals. All the hub bub over their water diversions aint just about the Delta Smelt and the Pelagic Organism Decline--it's also over the overall impact to the Delta system.

[mm]

Well, its obvious that ignorance on one end or the other on this matter will never let everyone agree about this thing, but your blinded views are harmful to all, especially the farmers.
What is your problem with farmers? Have they harmed you?
Do you want the west side of the valley dried up like the tree hugging enviros do?
If that were to happen, prepare for the consequences.
Keep trying to educate the young and unknowing with your views, and you might see.
Enough said.

[fish_food]

What is your problem with farmers? Have they harmed you?

I have no problem with farmers. While growing up, a very large part of our family business was selling dry goods to farmers and farm workers, my mother worked in area canneries and packing sheds and I also put in my share of time working the canneries as a teenager and during college.

What part of the above is so hard to understand: You can keep bringing up the stuff about "who feeds your face," the nobility of the agricultural tradition, etc but the truth is, Westlands irrigators get their subsidized water at below market prices and they usually get what they want through backroom deals. All the hub bub over their water diversions aint just about the Delta Smelt and the Pelagic Organism Decline--it's also over the overall impact to the Delta system.

And why is it so wrong to point out Westlands' backroom water dealings and not holding up their share of the original CVP agreement? They're soaking the taxpayers out of a LOT of money.

[mm]

DONE

[Greg_Cornish]

A vast majority of those crops are on micro drip systems. Farmers are some of the biggest water conservationists around! They DO NOT waste water because it is super expensive!

That's about the biggest bunch of BS i've ever heard on this board.

[Bill K]

The CVP was and is still taking water to the southern portion of the state for water, which is needed, but wasted on landscape and pools, etc. for the most part.
Then other waterways, our northern rivers/lakes are being drained and sent down towards the delta so they can keep the saline level from slowly creeping upriver. This is all done by the State Water Contol board and such.
Our problem is not with farmers getting the water. Then the total lack of rain/precip/snow pac are not helping anyone of us and our lakes and rivers in the north portion of the state.
We totally need some heavy rain and then a major snow pac up in those mountains. Bill K

[Kevin]

Who cares?

[mark poulson]

It's no one's fault. We live in a drying time, and there just isn't enough fresh water to go around.
Desalinization.
It's not a dirty word.
And if it's expensive, wait and see how expensive it is when California doesn't have enough water to keep either agriculture or industry alive here.
There will be no jobs to keep people here eating, so we won't need farmers. And there won't be any money to buy anything, so we won't need industry.
If you think going back to the California of sparse brush land and lots of desert is the way to go, keep fighting with each other, instead of finding a real solution.
We need the self serving and self indulgent politicians in Sacramento, who aren't taking a two day a month furlow, to do their job, and work out a real, long term water solution. It's not like the problem is going to go away.

[blkdog812]

time to cut the state in half.................. nor cal and so cal
my .02cents

[Topwater Terry]

I guess they don't do any landscaping and don't have pools up north?

[kopper_bass]

I know very little about the actual deals done many years ago to divert water from areas north and push it to the central valley regions and farther south, but i do know this ...........

CA may grow a lot, and we may have a great agricultural business, but its only due to the diversion of water; otherwise nothing would be growing there. When humans create something that isn't natural (say, like growing anything in an otherwise desert enviroment) then it always comes back to bite humans in the As* because we never plan for the consequences; (say, when there's a drought).

I dont hate farmers, and i dont hate SoCal. I have no hard feelings about anyone who is trying to make a living, or lives where they chose.

But at some point there has got to be some reasonable minds that see that you cant divert all the water from one region and push it to the dryest parts of another region. There has got to be another way to get water into those areas.

To stand behind the idea that it's OK because we're "feeding america"; is just crap. total BS and nothing more than a scare tactic. How much food goes wasted in this great country? How much food rots on the vine and in the fields as we subsidize production and keep prices fixed? there are way more areas in the country that have normal rain and water that produce more than enough food for us all; so we are in no way going to import even more food, and we surely are not going to starve.

A great comedian said once about the starving people in Africa - "Instead of spending millions of dollars on wells, water systems, soil reclamation, and teaching them agriculture practices; buy them all a plane ticket and tell them to move the HE*L out of the desert."

seems reasonable to me. Maybe its time we stop trying to grow commercial crops in the desert.

Just my way of thinking.

Kopper_Bass

[Marty]

This will piss off the Greeners – it the times of plenty one must save for the times insufficiency. We need to build more dam lakes to store water for the hard times. Plus this will help the majority of the wildlife but may hurt some insignificant species. This also has the added benefit of producing energy, new land to develop, jobs, and more fisheries. This is an Old School answer for New Day problem.

I also agree that the self indulgent politicians in Sacrament need to take a two day a month furlough with the rest of the civil servants. What is good for the Geese is also good for the Gander.

[Greg_Cornish]

We need to start a reward system for getting spayed and nuetered to people.

[Rod Martin]

forget the reward , make it mandatory.

But did'nt China do that, or is still doing it. and the good old USof A, let their people come over here to have babies.

Sooner or later someone should relize that there can be only so many humans.

Now who gets to decide who has kids and who doesnt?




Please make it ME!

[Marty]

I told you I would piss off a Greener

[Alex M.]

Ash, it's like the Vegas people being pissed at the folks in Havasu because Havasu is full! Havasu and Mohave are almost always full, Powell and Mead are never full. Pyramid is almost always full except on Fridays and the weekend when power is not needed as much. Castaic can be much lower while Pyramid is usually full or close to it. They need more water to generate the power.
Besided, Pyramid is only 1300 acres, not enough to make a difference at Folsom or anywhere else up north.

Excellent point! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Ash....
I'm a local on Pyramid and spend the majority of my time on the water there. It's microscopic compared to the Delta and most NorCal lakes.

Obi-Hub is correct in saying, "In all reality, Pyramid doesn't hold a lot of water. It is basically just a pond compared to NorCal Lakes. It is usually full because it is a staging pond to pass water back and forth to Castaic for power generation."

There have been days where you can literally see the water level fluctuate anywhere from 4-6ft up or down. A shoreline laydown in the morning might be out of water in the afternoon. Almost like a tidal fishery.

While speaking to a lake staff member one time, I was informed that they had the ability to raise the lake level 6ft in 1 HOUR if needed????? Craziness........

[Greg_Cornish]

I told you I would piss off a Greener

Who'd you piss off? I missed it.