UN-f@cking Believable....

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:39 pm

Unbelievable.

And this was ram rodded through again why?

Not even allowing our legislators to read the piece of f@cking sh@t is amazingly unf@cking real.

Stupid f@cking idiots on the hill. I cannot wait to throw all your stupid f@cking a$$es out as soon as possible.

Bunch of f@cking derelicts.

Wasteful and Non-Stimulative Spending in the House-Senate Conference Report (Note: Many of these items are typically debated and funded through the regular budget process. Including these items in an emergency â€œstimulusâ€

smittyfish · Post by **smittyfish** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:21 pm

Nice language, you are all class Kurt.

Did anyone ever tell you that you can sound much more intelligent without using vulgarity? Agree or disagree you don't have to drop all the "F" bombs.

Rest assured, we all know that you don't agree with the bill.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:58 pm

Change is here my good friend smitty, change indeed.

No f@cking intelligence nor class is required. If that isn't blantantly obvious even to you well....sorry I can't f@cking help you with that.

LOL

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:18 pm

Smittyfish,

This is the same language that Liberals used on their t-shits and bumper sticker that said â€œFukk Bush, why is it so offence now when referring to what happen today and not to the President of the United States? Read pass the language and see what this bill means. This bill is short on incentives that was to get consumers spending again and very long on social goals that won't stimulate economic activity at all. â€œThe lesson of Japan in the 1990s shows, fiscal stimulus without financial rescue yields stagnation."

This stimulus bill is nothing but a social spending that has been planed from day one by liberals (Pelosi and Read)! It was thrown together with no central goal like helping the housing market or the auto market. Take a step back and think would you run your house hold income this way? I really hope you donâ€™t support this bill because it is POS.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:42 pm

Did you know that $9.7 Trillion is what this Bailout will add up to with all of the Programs.

â€œThe stimulus bill that was approved states $780 billion but what about $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program passed four months ago and $168 billion in tax cuts and rebates enacted in 2008 have been voted on by lawmakers. The remaining $8 trillion is in lending programs and guarantees, almost all under the Fed and FDIC. Recipientsâ€™ names have not been disclosed.â€

jcruz · Post by **jcruz** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:14 pm

Your partisan political views are amazing and so out of touch? How can you pick apart the recently rolled out federal stimulus package and at the same time sit back with a closed mouth when Bush rolled out (TARP) that bailed out Wall Street to the tune of $350 BILLION with zero accountabilty. We wouldn't even be in this situation if the prior administration didn't work to de-regulate Wall Street and and take oversight out of the hands of the Federal Reserve. Hell, there were people I knew who were working at the corner grocery store qualifying for "pick your payment" loans to purchase $700K homes from unregulated lenders. 60% of this financial fire storm we are in can be attributed to the collapse of the real estate market and out of control lending and the other 40% to the collapse of Wall Street and they both started to happen 2 years ago. For the record, I didn't even vote for Obama, but give the guy a little time.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:57 pm

You need to read my post again â€“ I included TARP and I did not like that either and Bush signed it after a Democrats pass it and yes I believe in partisan political if it is conservative views.

As for when this started it was more then 2 or 3 years ago â€“ it was when they took the controls off mortgage lending and the deregulated the amount you had to back loans from 20% to 5% along with allowing to package debit as a product and all that happen during the Clinton administration.

We have been screwed for years because of liberal ideals and yes that includes the last administration because he was a moderate and not a conservative.

smittyfish · Post by **smittyfish** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:22 pm

Marty,

All I was saying is why all the "F" bombs. I don't agree with the stimulus. But I also don't agree with the language, weather on a tee shirt or this forum.

Once again Kurt showed his lack of class. We all know how you feel. Try communicating in a civil manner. I have taken all of Kurt's abuse and have never stooped to his level. You are showing a lack of education when you speak like that. Lack of class buddy.

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:47 pm

jcruz wrote:Your partisan political views are amazing and so out of touch? How can you pick apart the recently rolled out federal stimulus package and at the same time sit back with a closed mouth when Bush rolled out (TARP) that bailed out Wall Street to the tune of $350 BILLION with zero accountabilty. We wouldn't even be in this situation if the prior administration didn't work to de-regulate Wall Street and and take oversight out of the hands of the Federal Reserve. Hell, there were people I knew who were working at the corner grocery store qualifying for "pick your payment" loans to purchase $700K homes from unregulated lenders. 60% of this financial fire storm we are in can be attributed to the collapse of the real estate market and out of control lending and the other 40% to the collapse of Wall Street and they both started to happen 2 years ago. For the record, I didn't even vote for Obama, but give the guy a little time.

For your consideration.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/series11.aspx

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:45 pm

jcruz wrote:Your partisan political views are amazing and so out of touch? . We wouldn't even be in this situation if the prior administration didn't work to de-regulate Wall Street and and take oversight out of the hands of the Federal Reserve. Hell, there were people I knew who were working at the corner grocery store qualifying for "pick your payment" loans to purchase $700K homes from unregulated lenders. 60% of this financial fire storm we are in can be attributed to the collapse of the real estate market and out of control lending and the other 40% to the collapse of Wall Street and they both started to happen 2 years ago. For the record, I didn't even vote for Obama, but give the guy a little time.

LMOA, speaking of being partisan and out of touch.
Go back and do your homework.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:21 am

Pelosi's mouse slated for $30M slice of cheese in this stimulus bill.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... se-cookie/

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:27 am

jcruz wrote:For the record, I didn't even vote for Obama, but give the guy a little time.

Nope.

I guess the ENORMITY of this legislation (read: BHO and the democrat's "solution") has just gone over some people's heads. Yeah so this is an inherited a mess, the issue I have is the solution and moreover how it was crammed down our throat. At this point I feel EVERYONE on the hill should be impeached. Someone please explain to me how THE MOST COSTLIEST PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN HISTORY gets passed without congress (and undoubtedly BHO himself) even reading the proposed legislation page by page? As the title of this thread APPROPRIATELY states UN-f@cking Believable.

We needed new and different leadership - fine - instead we got royally screwed.

Change. Bullsh@t.

jcruz · Post by **jcruz** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:01 am

Short answer--- Do you recall a little election the USA had for President in November? This entire country spoke loud and clear on election day. We elect people to lead ... it hasn't even been a month and the the daggers are already out. Unbelievable?? By the way, I do understand the enormity of the stimulus plan, but what baffles me is that you didn't mention a single objection to one of the largest package of tax cuts this country has ever seen???

OK Tobe I'll go do my homework -- if you promise not to believe everything you read in the paper and see on TV.

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:17 am

jcruz wrote:Your partisan political views are amazing and so out of touch? Hell, there were people I knew who were working at the corner grocery store qualifying for "pick your payment" loans to purchase $700K homes from unregulated lenders. 60% of this financial fire storm we are in can be attributed to the collapse of the real estate market and out of control lending

I would strongly argue that 60% of our financial meltdown is attributed to the sub-prime lending, more like 80%

Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Fannie Mae and the subprime crisis.

Google it and get back to me!

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:51 pm

One thing is for certain today, AIG is one entitiy that is truly thankful the current administration and congress rammed this POS stimulus bill through. Too bad our "leaders" didn't even bother to "interpret the tea leaves" from TARP 1 to see this as a potential issue and plan for it in THEIR bill.

Idiots.

Well played BHO. And don't blame AIG look to your cohorts in congress and look in the mirror. You got your bill now choke on it.

Once again the American tax payer has to bear the brunt of such a short sighted, irresponsible, totally screwed-up government.

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:19 pm

I cant believe, after all that has happened in the last 6 months, that AIG has the balls to send out 165 million in bonuses to the very people that caused, or contributed to, this situation. If BHO had an ounce of integrity, he would pull the plug and let AIG go down the drain.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 pm

Fact is that Tim Geitner was the person who thought up and pushed through the AIG bailout. Bush let him do it but at least Geitner was an unkown to that administration. Obama actually selected the same guy to run the whole show even after he admitted cheating on his taxes. Both administrations are guilty on AIG but Obama made a known decision which makes him a lot more responsible.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:41 pm

getalife wrote:I cant believe, after all that has happened in the last 6 months, that AIG has the balls to send out 165 million in bonuses to the very people that caused, or contributed to, this situation. If BHO had an ounce of integrity, he would pull the plug and let AIG go down the drain.

That's the key problem, AIG is involved with many, many, many different areas across our economy it is the one entity that could actually cause a complete collapse of our financial system. And now AIG is bound by legal contracts to make these payments. The cost to AIG of not honoring these could be much more expensive. If the POS bill had some foresight it could have instituted much stricter controls over how the money MUST be spent thus relieving AIG of any contractual obligations.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 pm

Ringer wrote:Fact is that Tim Geitner was the person who thought up and pushed through the AIG bailout. Bush let him do it but at least Geitner was an unkown to that administration. Obama actually selected the same guy to run the whole show even after he admitted cheating on his taxes. Both administrations are guilty on AIG but Obama made a known decision which makes him a lot more responsible.

I tend to agree with helping AIG (in paticular), I strongly disagree with the lack of critical oversight and strict control a bill of this magnitude demands. It's appalling especially when there was evidence of misappropriation of funds with the prior TARP 1 bailout.

UNREAL.

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:38 pm

We MUST Monitor the Volcanos!

$130mill though! WOW! Great work if you can get it Mr Spock!

And I just love the left's counter to this - "Well Bush signed the biggest TAX CUT in history!"

Gee - imagine that.... letting me decide to spend my money how I think it should be spent, versus spending on.... monitoring freakin Volcanos! -

And EVERYONE knows the government is so efficient at spending money.....

Rocket Science it ain't. Leave the money in the private sector and things will work themselves out.

There's a ton of cash on the sidelines right now. Once it jumps back into the market, the door won't be big enough for all those who want to to get back in. The answer however IS NOT to take it from them and let the mooks in DC (DEmocrat AND Republican) decide what to do with it....

Cheers

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:09 pm

Just reported on NBC news... in a late night, closed door, meeting the white house (and others) decided to take out (at the last minute) the verbage that restricted the companies receiving a bailout from giving bonuses. All this was done in secrecy by none other that Geitner himself. So, when BHO acted outraged yesterday, it was all an act. He knew this was coming. EVEN NBC SAID THAT!

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:29 pm

What are we talking about $150 million in bonus? Have you every heard of the tail wagging the dog â€“ this is what is all about! Look at it this way, the $150 million is being taxed a 33% already leaving $100 million. Now both sides of the clowns in congress want to take the rest of it by new types of taxes. But this is what you donâ€™t know because the ABCâ€™s news networks are not telling you. In the second stimulus bill (the one that belongs to BHO) Chris Dodd put in a little phase in the bill that contracts at AIG executive will be exclude from taxes and canâ€™t be taken way.

So, if Chris Dodd knew it was coming, donâ€™t you think the man himself did not know about it? You need to look at what are they trying to cover up? Maybe all of the following: Plus if they can get away with taking money already earned just think what they can do to you!

You voted for him now live with him! Dumb Masses (trying saying that fast).

â€¢ $8 billion for high-speed railway (including an earmark for an Los Angeles to Las Vegas MagLev)
â€¢ $1 billion for the â€œFutureGenâ€

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:16 pm

getalife wrote:Just reported on NBC news... in a late night, closed door, meeting the white house (and others) decided to take out (at the last minute) the verbage that restricted the companies receiving a bailout from giving bonuses. All this was done in secrecy by none other that Geitner himself. So, when BHO acted outraged yesterday, it was all an act. He knew this was coming. EVEN NBC SAID THAT!

Disgusting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090318/ap_ ... _they_know

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:38 am

You have got to be kidding me ?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!

http://www.examiner.com/x-268-Right-Sid ... s-from-AIG

I hope this "bonus" and all others on this list also get taxed at 100%

basswipe · Post by **basswipe** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:47 pm

why give $300 million for "green" cars to federal employees? Does anyone know how much $300 million is? And they're probably gonna be imported from Asia and not even help out our Big 3. Can they not afford their own Prius? Gosh what a waste, if your gonna give away cars, give it to the real people that actually would drive them. But still shouldn't even be on there

jiggin_pimpin · Post by **jiggin_pimpin** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:11 pm

basswipe wrote:why give $300 million for "green" cars to federal employees? Does anyone know how much $300 million is? And they're probably gonna be imported from Asia and not even help out our Big 3. Can they not afford their own Prius? Gosh what a waste, if your gonna give away cars, give it to the real people that actually would drive them. But still shouldn't even be on there

You're kidding me right? Helping out the Big 3? That is a joke. They don't deserve it, as their business practices are the worst in the whole auto industry. One of the Big 3 will have to go bankrupt.

All these years of manufacturing cars and not a single thought about increasing MPG and more fuel efficient cars. They deserve what they have coming to them. It would be better if 2 of the 3 folded or at least merge.

basswipe · Post by **basswipe** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:04 pm

jiggin_pimpin you are totally right and I agree with you 100%. I guess I am just trying to say that they wouldn't consider buying American (even though not much to choose from right?). I'm just really pissed off on how they flush money (we don't have) away that easily

Dan McKenzie · Post by **Dan McKenzie** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:23 pm

you know what un@@#$%@$% is how the dam republicans led us here in the first place, Americans filing in like cows to a milk barn. If it hadn't been for them, there wouldn't be any of this stinking mess to begin with. so they make a mess and now moan and groan about it. thats got to be the f'n joke of the last 100 years.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:46 pm

No Dan, it is not just the republicans, it is also the Democrats! Both sides of the congress are fukking you and me. It is them against us and each day they try to divide us with race, envy, and class warfare.

Until each of us see that they will continue to fool us all.

Do you really think they care about you, me, or all of the others out here â€“ No. The only way we can be protected is never vote for a person twice, donâ€™t give any money to their campaigns, and try to divide the white house and congress where they fight amounts themselves.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:53 pm

Dan McKenzie wrote:you know what un@@#$%@$% is how the dam republicans led us here in the first place, Americans filing in like cows to a milk barn. If it hadn't been for them, there wouldn't be any of this stinking mess to begin with. so they make a mess and now moan and groan about it. thats got to be the f'n joke of the last 100 years.

LOL

Spoken like a true, misinformed, unintelligent democratic partisan.

Here to make you feel better I'll respond in kind:

StockOption wrote:you know what un@@#$%@$% is how the dam democrats, Franks, Pelosi, Reid, Dodd..etc etc led us here in the first place, Americans filing in like cows to a milk barn. If it hadn't been for them, there wouldn't be any of this stinking mess to begin with. so they make a mess and now moan and groan about it. thats got to be the f'n joke of the last 100 years.

Now you can tell me this is "spoken like a true, misinformed, unintelligent republican partisan." And I'll wholeheartedly agree.

LOL

Please.

Stick to buying those bargin priced stocks......

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:17 am

spoken like an informed Economist......

look at their lines. They do offer high MPG vehicles. They just can't make them 'as good' or 'as cheaply' as their foreign counterparts. i.e. their pricepoint is to high and their lower end products don't have the brand loyalty and preceived quality as say a Honda or even a Hyundai

How much is that Korean assemply line worker making? What level of Federal regulations are those plants operating under? Are the exec's part of the problem -- to a degree yes. However the fact that they fly around in G5s really has little or nothing to do with it. Makes good politics, and good press. But you're looking at a pimple on a cancer patient.

You want to turn the auto industry around?

Incentivise consumers to buy US. All US autos purchased are bought tax-free for the next 5 years.

Incentivise automakers by relaxing regulations on production - e.g. environmental standards. Measuring plant output at a parts-per-billion number is ludicrous. (no one's saying go back to the 70s and 60s allowing anther Love Canal - but adhering to laws written in the 70s AND BASED ON TECHNOLOGY AT THE MOMENT - is absurd. It's cheaper to build a plant in Mexico and move it there).

Incircle every plant by a 10 mile radious. Any company investment going into that area goes in tax free for 5 years. Anything produced on that new investment is untaxed for the same period (earnings).

Finally, each company is incentivised to hire and fire based on skill, and paid accordingly.

In short - let them compete on equal footing with their foreign counterparts.

I just bought a 09 Dodge Laramie 4X4. AFTER test driving a Tundra. My Laramie, even with a 6 inch lift and 35" tires is getting 14MPGs per gallon in town, 16 on the highway. Not bad for a big ole Hemi.... and the quality is right up their.

The auto industry can and should survive in the US. If it's regulated to death though and overburdened with labor costs, it'll go the same way as textiles did - overseas.....

jiggin_pimpin · Post by **jiggin_pimpin** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:43 pm

Bob Simard wrote:spoken like an informed Economist......

look at their lines. They do offer high MPG vehicles. They just can't make them 'as good' or 'as cheaply' as their foreign counterparts. i.e. their pricepoint is to high and their lower end products don't have the brand loyalty and preceived quality as say a Honda or even a Hyundai

How much is that Korean assemply line worker making? What level of Federal regulations are those plants operating under? Are the exec's part of the problem -- to a degree yes. However the fact that they fly around in G5s really has little or nothing to do with it. Makes good politics, and good press. But you're looking at a pimple on a cancer patient.

You want to turn the auto industry around?

Incentivise consumers to buy US. All US autos purchased are bought tax-free for the next 5 years.

Incentivise automakers by relaxing regulations on production - e.g. environmental standards. Measuring plant output at a parts-per-billion number is ludicrous. (no one's saying go back to the 70s and 60s allowing anther Love Canal - but adhering to laws written in the 70s AND BASED ON TECHNOLOGY AT THE MOMENT - is absurd. It's cheaper to build a plant in Mexico and move it there).

Incircle every plant by a 10 mile radious. Any company investment going into that area goes in tax free for 5 years. Anything produced on that new investment is untaxed for the same period (earnings).

Finally, each company is incentivised to hire and fire based on skill, and paid accordingly.

In short - let them compete on equal footing with their foreign counterparts.

I just bought a 09 Dodge Laramie 4X4. AFTER test driving a Tundra. My Laramie, even with a 6 inch lift and 35" tires is getting 14MPGs per gallon in town, 16 on the highway. Not bad for a big ole Hemi.... and the quality is right up their.

The auto industry can and should survive in the US. If it's regulated to death though and overburdened with labor costs, it'll go the same way as textiles did - overseas.....

Bob,

I hope not all my replies need to be completely thought out from an economic standpoint. If it were, I'd be writing papers and I don't have the time for that.

There's very little that I disagree with in your post. The fact is the Big 3 caught on a little too late in trying to keep up competition with foreign car makers. The price point of all US models are definitely a point of contention as to why people would stay away from purchasing American.

But that's fast becoming moot as Honda and Toyota all have plants here in the US and are made in the US. It's been that way for quite awhile now.

Relaxing regulations would run counter what environmentalists have acheived. It would be mass mayhem. I think that it's been well documented that corporations can't be trusted. If you give'em an inch, they'll take a foot. That's how they work.

I think that your last statment warrants some further comment. I work with a lot of clients in China and they have said that GM and Ford are in the middle of building plants in China. It's all rather hush hush but I can envision it now. The Big 3 goes and pleads with Congress to get more $$ and then when the China plants are finished, they move all operations to China. That would be catastrophic for the American workers. If either of the Big 3 had an opportunity to bust their Unions, they would do it in a heartbeat. The Unions are a major reason why their price point is high and are counterproductive from a business point of view. It's really inflated and the amount they pay union workers is obscene.
Mark my words, the "American" car company will be less American than either Honda or Toyota.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:09 pm

jiggin_pimpin wrote:
Bob,

I hope not all my replies need to be completely thought out from an economic standpoint. If it were, I'd be writing papers and I don't have the time for that.

There's very little that I disagree with in your post. The fact is the Big 3 caught on a little too late in trying to keep up competition with foreign car makers. The price point of all US models are definitely a point of contention as to why people would stay away from purchasing American.

But that's fast becoming moot as Honda and Toyota all have plants here in the US and are made in the US. It's been that way for quite awhile now.

Relaxing regulations would run counter what environmentalists have acheived. It would be mass mayhem. I think that it's been well documented that corporations can't be trusted. If you give'em an inch, they'll take a foot. That's how they work.

I think that your last statment warrants some further comment. I work with a lot of clients in China and they have said that GM and Ford are in the middle of building plants in China. It's all rather hush hush but I can envision it now. The Big 3 goes and pleads with Congress to get more $$ and then when the China plants are finished, they move all operations to China. That would be catastrophic for the American workers. If either of the Big 3 had an opportunity to bust their Unions, they would do it in a heartbeat. The Unions are a major reason why their price point is high and are counterproductive from a business point of view. It's really inflated and the amount they pay union workers is obscene.
Mark my words, the "American" car company will be less American than either Honda or Toyota.

Answer this jiggin_pimpin,

If the Big 3 main goal was to bust their Unions, then why not file bankruptcy and not take the stimulus?

jiggin_pimpin · Post by **jiggin_pimpin** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:50 pm

jiggin_pimpin · Post by **jiggin_pimpin** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:55 pm

Marty wrote:
jiggin_pimpin wrote:
Answer this jiggin_pimpin,

If the Big 3 main goal was to bust their Unions, then why not file bankruptcy and not take the stimulus? [/b][/color]

If your exit strategy was to move operations to China and you get smacked with this economic downturn. What do you do?

You have a massive cash flow problem, suppossedly can't even survive past the next quarter and are currently in the process of building plants in China that is a year or two from completion.

You do what all the other companies are doing. You ask Congress for a bailout. Use this opportunity to renegotiate with the UAW to save some more money and still be able to finance the completion of your China plants.

Do you think in bankruptcy, a judge will allow you to continue building while you have creditors knocking down your door.
Not likely. Then you have to pay back all the t-bills, bonds and other debentures that have been allocated on your behalf.

You burn every possible bridge possible by going bankrupt. Lets just say for some miracle, you make it out of bankruptcy, who's going to line up and buy your product which will be inferior to the other non-American car companies?

Instead, they take the money and run. Literally.
You'll see in a couple of years when the survivors of the Big 3 start to move production to China, albeit slowly. They will start closing more US plants and pretty soon, UAW is obsolete. Even before they open the plants in China, they've created leverage against UAW. The Bigs can then either force UAW to renegotiate contracts to be more favorable or move all operations to China. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as a union in China.

T

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:58 pm

Interesting points.

manufacturing in general is moving to China, Mexico, and other places where it's less costly to produce. You know all about economic efficiency. Resources flow to efficiency and if it costs $25 dollars to make a product here in the good old USA I can sell for $30 and I can make the same product oversees for $14 and sell for $30, where am I going to make it?

My point is eliminate 'some' of the conditions - regulations - that inflate my production costs while incentivising me to stay here and produce and I'll stay.

Otherwise, I'll move offshore. Why? Because my competition will. What percentage of Honda and Toyota vehicles are produced in the US? I knew some were, but not percentages....

Have you looked at the textile industry and it's flight from the US shores in the 70s? ? The federal government is never happy with current regulations so they continue to grind them out, as if 12 year olds are STILL manning assembly lines 16 hours a day and factories are STILL dumping raw waste into the rivers and air.

Do you understand the flaw in writing a law that says 'You Mr. Manufacturer can not emit any MEASURABLE amounts of pollutant from your plant!' in the 70s and 80s? A device that measured PPBs was inconceivable at that time. Mind you, no substance at that level is toxic, let alone pollution.

So they shut down the relatively clean plants in the US, leaving empty plants and unemployed workers and open plants overseas, staffed by 12 year olds and dumping pollution out the back of the factory and into the air - have you seen the satellite pictures of the pollution plume coming across the Pacific?.

So again I say, incentivise them to stay, abolish the ludicrus regulations and create common since environmental laws.

What happened to our Socialism discussion? That was interesting.

jiggin_pimpin · Post by **jiggin_pimpin** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:30 pm

Bob,

I completely understand where you're coming from. Other than the taxes being paid, why would the gov't want to incentivize any corporation? Up until recently I mean.

From the Bigs position, regardless of gov't incentives, why would they want to stay domestic? You've got cheaper labor, cheaper goods and utlimately cheaper costs to maximize returns. This is the bottom line where all corps are in business for. Maximizing their returns.

If there was any blame to be laid, it would be on the shoes of the UAW. Unfortunately, their effectiveness is also their downfall.

I've been meaning to get back onto the Socialism topic shortly. Been busy.

T

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:31 pm

Let's put this all in perspective. Back in 1990, the US Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling booze?

We are doomed.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:51 pm

jiggin_pimpin

You have me on this one - I have been searching for a source to backup your statement that GM and Ford are building plants in China, can you lead me to a source? Because if they move it will be the blow to take us into a depression after what Obama is doing.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:54 pm

Greg_Cornish wrote:Let's put this all in perspective. Back in 1990, the US Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling booze?
We are doomed.

Greg,

Where are you coming from â€“ you are not saying your man BHO is not the man you thought he was?

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:01 am

Note to self, put U.S. Government in bold next time.

If you were to research my pre-election posts, you'll find two posts. One stating I would have voted for McCain in 2000 and was looking for a reason to vote for him in 2008.

Another post said this election would be decided by the vice presidential pick. If he had a decent VP pick I would have voted for him. But as you all know he chose an idiot.

Skeeterman · Post by **Skeeterman** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:29 am

Well now we have an idiot for a president and a lier to boot.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:40 am

Skeeterman wrote:Well now we have an idiot for a president and a lier to boot.

with around sixty days in office I'll reserve judgement, but he's the best of the two choices we had. I also said before, "the economy will collapse no matter who we elected." How much broker than completely broke can you get?

jiggin_pimpin · Post by **jiggin_pimpin** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:06 pm

Marty wrote:jiggin_pimpin

You have me on this one - I have been searching for a source to backup your statement that GM and Ford are building plants in China, can you lead me to a source? Because if they move it will be the blow to take us into a depression after what Obama is doing.

Hey Marty,

I believe that it would be disasterous if this happened but you can't discount the lengths that some of these companies will stoop to to make a buck.

I can't lead you to the source per se, but am getting this info from my clients who are ex-pats living in and working in China. One client in particular is trying to "break" the story for a reporter in the US. He tried to get a picture of the plant but was harrassed and chased off of the property.

They are building these plants with their "business partners" in China. I'll fill you in as I get more info.

T

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:20 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs

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