Different style pro am

RipnRog · Post by **RipnRog** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:04 am

I would like to see one day low fee pro ams someday. I think with the economy a one day low fee pro am circuit would be different and attract guys to come fish..... everything is cheaper this way.... if the event was on Sunday have the off limits Mon thru Fri with an official pre fish on Saturday.......

This could be a fun style tournament.

Maybe even do the pairings on friday or saturday morning an allow the pro and am time to pre fish......

My thoughts..... Rodger

TWinger · Post by **TWinger** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:33 am

100 percent bass used to have them regularly. I fished many but the draw was only around 30 boats. Did not seem the fisherman wanted it that bad. They faded away.

DL · Post by DL » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:15 am

RipnRog wrote:I would like to see one day low fee pro ams someday. I think with the economy a one day low fee pro am circuit would be different and attract guys to come fish..... everything is cheaper this way.... if the event was on Sunday have the off limits Mon thru Fri with an official pre fish on Saturday.......

This could be a fun style tournament.

Maybe even do the pairings on friday or saturday morning an allow the pro and am time to pre fish......

My thoughts..... Rodger

We have one down south, The Top Stick Tour. The lake closures down here hurt us but we are making due with a revised schedule. The Diamond Valley Lake closure, where I had two events schedule, really killed the draw... I knows its a little far for you guys up North, but this our third season, and for the most part has been a good deal for all... We even gave away a boat at last years TOC.

Check out the website www.scalenews.com

Vince Borges · Post by **Vince Borges** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:31 am

wouldnt Nor-Cal fit that discription, 1 day low entry, draw format?

Vince

Saechao · Post by **Saechao** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:09 am

bass federation has a one day pro/am style for a very low entry fee.

Long Nguyen · Post by **Long Nguyen** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:57 am

Vince Borges wrote:wouldnt Nor-Cal fit that discription, 1 day low entry, draw format?

Vince

Yep. They have two regions, motherlode and delta. Delta events go out of Tracy Oasis.

They need help with participation. I fished last year and I don't think they drew over 20 boats to a single delta event.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:27 pm

Top Stick kicks butt... too bad about the closures and restrictions, as it is really a great trail. If I was still down South, I would have been fishing it for sure.

CBAF isn't really a Pro/Am, it's really the old "Pro-on-Pro" format, and everyone is fishing for the same pool of money.

I'm not familiar with the Nor-Cal trail, but it sounds like it may fit the description but is languishing without robust participation?

I think one of the big deciding factors about what trails are successful (as successful as possible given the economy and conditions) is the amount of promotion that the tournament director and other supporters exert. Some of the events are hardly promoted, and thus aren't wholly supported by the angler base. Others are well-communicated and have decent draws, at least. I'd say that Rodger is one example - he's done a very good job of promoting his ABA tournament trails here on Western Bass, as well as Cal Bassin (and perhaps others?), and from what I've seen he has had very good participation at his events - even with a tough bite.

I'd suggest that those running tournaments do as much promotion as possible right now, as there is heavy competition for a smaller participant base right now.

As for the one day Pro/Am format, I'm sure there's a place for it, but I'm not sure that it would attract a large crowd in the current over-populated tournament schedule? There are an awful lot of events scheduled in each of the areas already - not sure how much room there would be for another?

Roger

george · Post by **george** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:16 pm

Roger, I have fished Nor-Cal for over ten years and they are a great organization that has been around a long, long time.
I am not fishing this year due to moving down to the Palm Springs area for a while to take care of some business.
But what I can tell you is this, Nor-Cal is one of the best run circuits out there and you are up against some real sticks. You will learn a bunch and the entry fees are about the most reasonable there are.

The fees have been adjusted this year to make it more economical with entry and options about $150.00 for the pro side and $100.00 for the Ams.
It is a great opportunity for anyone who is getting started in tournament fishing to fish on the am side and get a chance to really learn the delta and motherload from some of the best tournament guys out there.
I know of a couple of the best motherload fisherman around that decided that their budgets could not support the pro side so they moved to the no boater side and are really enjoying it.
All of the boaters are pretty good guys that I have known for years and would welcome you to Nor-Cal; You owe it to your self to give it a try.
If you have any questions call me 209-402-2284
George

PS. Since I am a new guy in town; Palm Springs area and I would really like to fish this Top Stick tour, If anyone can get me some info. on it or would like to sign up with me for a few events.
Thanks, again!
George

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:37 pm

George, great information there. Thanks for sharing... that is exactly the type of hype that should be shared around, to get interest stirred up.

Contact John Barron or DL (Darren Lacher) for more information on the Top Stick - I'm sure they can accommodate you.

And if you want to check out some of the photos from some of last season's events, I did photography for a few and they are available in a slideshow at:
http://www.tunaman.org/web/TopStick.htm

Roger

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:47 pm

Yes, nor-cal is a great circut and can spawn some great sticks. I remember one. I beleive his name is Brian Ruthaman. I believe the first Nor-Cal he won as a non-boater was at McClure. His partner was Bill Parks. I remember him walking up the ramp to get the trailer talking to his wife on the phone saying "I think we did good"

Nor-Cal has been around so long becuase the boaters have put their egos and paranoia behind them and have been willing to share.

Jon

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:06 pm

So what your saying is you want a cheep guide trip??

RipnRog · Post by **RipnRog** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:08 pm

Jon wrote:Yes, nor-cal is a great circut and can spawn some great sticks. I remember one. I beleive his name is Brian Ruthaman. I believe the first Nor-Cal he won as a non-boater was at McClure. His partner was Bill Parks. I remember him walking up the ramp to get the trailer talking to his wife on the phone saying "I think we did good"

Nor-Cal has been around so long becuase the boaters have put their egos and paranoia behind them and have been willing to share.

Jon

I never knew nor cal was a pro am.... I always thought it was a team circuit........

DAN · Post by **DAN** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:11 pm

One Day inexpensive pro ams are out there. Nor cals were GREAT when I could fish them, still very few supported them. I would like to see them again too, 5 Stops throughout Northern California Points based TOC Somewhere they haven't visited during the Season. To many circuits concentrating on to small of areas, Delta Circuits, Oroville Circuits, Motherlode. Get Out and Play!

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:25 pm

I prefer Pro/Am to a team event â€“ I would like to see $100 entry fee for each Pro and Co-angler with the prizes being the same. I like your idea Rodger about the week being off limits during the week and pairings on Friday to pre-fish together on Saturday and tournament on Sunday.

Not to keen on options â€“ yes on big fish (one for both Pro and Co-angler). Options are just other way to jack-up the pots and the fee. If there is options, then list the prizes and options by themselves and not together.

From where I live I would like to see the Delta, Clear Lake, Oroville, and one of the Mother Load lakes â€“ all in easy driving distance. The TOC at a lake that was not fished during the circuit and is just revealed the week or two before the TOC (adding spice to the TOC). The prizes for the TOC being the same for both the Pro and Co-Angler.

If there are points awarded to get into the TOC â€“ there should be 25 points awarded for each tournament fished if all four tournaments are fished. These points are awarded at the end of the season. Other thing is when you sign up to run the circuit each Pro and Co-angler put down $200 up front to fish the whole circuit ($50 per). I believe this will eliminate zip code anglers.

I also like Roger (tunaman) idea on marketing but not only the tournament itself but the winners. Maybe some real cool jackets stating they won that tournament and/or TOC.

Yes there are a lot of circuits out there but the best organization that is fare to everyone, runs the tournament with the best services, and has the best ideas will raise to the top and the others will fade way.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:36 am

Nor-Cal is this format and has been for a long time. Yes it does lack the promotion it needs but is a great circuit. I have been fishing them for years. It's a good fit for those who do not have a lot of time or have the money to travel to the big circuits or for those just starting out who want to learn. I would love to do the FLW's,WCB, etc...but time will not allow for that now. Like I said before, the people running this circuit do not profit from this, all the money goes back to the tournament guys,wether cash,prizes, or the TOC. Anthony, Tim, Norval and Diana are a class act. You could say this is a working mans circuit. These guys listen and ask for our opinions on how to make improvements. Tim is always saying that this circuit belongs to the fishermen/women. For those not fishing it, you are missing out. Hope to see some of you out there.
Angel

Dewayne · Post by **Dewayne** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:04 am

Why would anyone be foolish enough to fish boater? If I can earn the same money and not own a boat, have the libility of another person in my boat, insurance, upkeep, poor mileage tow vehicle........ then there would be tons of non-boaters and no boaters.

Sorry bud, but at that price boaters would not be able to cover expenses.

Eddy V. · Post by **Eddy V.** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:04 am

Angel wrote:Nor-Cal is this format and has been for a long time. Yes it does lack the promotion it needs but is a great circuit. I have been fishing them for years. It's a good fit for those who do not have a lot of time or have the money to travel to the big circuits or for those just starting out who want to learn. I would love to do the FLW's,WCB, etc...but time will not allow for that now. Like I said before, the people running this circuit do not profit from this, all the money goes back to the tournament guys,wether cash,prizes, or the TOC. Anthony, Tim, Norval and Diana are a class act. You could say this is a working mans circuit. These guys listen and ask for our opinions on how to make improvements. Tim is always saying that this circuit belongs to the fishermen/women. For those not fishing it, you are missing out. Hope to see some of you out there.
Angel

I think Nor-Calbass is exactly what Rodger was describing. They fish the Delta and Motherlode with a TOC at Clear Lake which wasn't fished during the season. $100 Pro $50 Am entry plus options with pairings done the morning of the event. It's perfect, the only thing missing is more participation.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:58 pm

Dewayne wrote:Why would anyone be foolish enough to fish boater? If I can earn the same money and not own a boat, have the libility of another person in my boat, insurance, upkeep, poor mileage tow vehicle........ then there would be tons of non-boaters and no boaters.
Sorry bud, but at that price boaters would not be able to cover expenses.

Good point Dewayne what it the hell was I thinking about. Just because I would do it does not mean everyone would want to try it. Lets drop the cost for the Co-Angler back down to $50 and keep the Pro at $100 that way the Co-angler will have less in a prizes that way the Proâ€™s prize will be bigger then the Co-angler. Maybe that will get him out with his boat because they will get more then the back seat?

What does it matter if the Pro pays $100 or $4,000 to fish the tournament his fee goes to their prize and it does not effect the cost of running the boat, they still pay the same entry fee as all of the other Proâ€™s. In a Pro/Am your fishing against the other Proâ€™s not the Co-Anglers.

Or do you mean take the Co-angler fee and give half to the Pro side of the prize? I know of a few origination that do that â€“ where are they now?

We have to grow the sport and it does not grow from the front of the boat (you are already doing it) you have to get that guy in the back to move up. The old way of paying your dues in this economy in IMO is out.

Do not mean to step on your toes - I was just giving my opinion.

Dewayne · Post by **Dewayne** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:03 am

It would be great for co-anglers, but it will not draw many boaters for a couple reasons. Why take on the additional expense of being a boater, pre fishing, and etc. when you can earn far more as a non-boater. I know you have a boat and understand the costs associated with fishing as a boater. This would be a money looser, but it will draw a few that are looking for a finish without thinking of it as a business.

If you cut checks as a pro and want to deduct your expenses, you have to operate your fishing as a business and try to earn money. You have to earn a profit every few years. The costs of boat depreciation, insurance, tow vehicle, Mileage, motel room, food, and tackle are fairly fixed. These costs dwarf what you can earn on small entry fee tournaments. I have finished as high as 8th in a BASS Open and lost money. What I am saying is simply that you will not draw people who operate fishing as a business to this low of an entry fee tournament because you do not make money even if you do well.

These are fine for those who just want to fun fish and do not expect to cut a check.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:18 am

Dewayne wrote:What I am saying is simply that you will not draw people who operate fishing as a business to this low of an entry fee tournament because you do not make money even if you do well.

I expect that this is the point... I doubt that type of angler is what Rodger (and those lower-cost circuits) was targetting. I think those are more drawn to the WON/AC/WCB/FLW events?

Roger

george · Post by **george** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:08 pm

Dwayne,
This would not be the circuit for you, this is for the other nine out of ten guys who are not in the bass fishing business but wish they could be; they dont have the time or the money!
No mater how you look at it the cost for the boater are the same; gas for truck, gas for boat, entry fee, launch fee and pre-fish cost;etc.
In this economy the average joe does not have the budget to pay all that along with a $300 entry it runs five hundred bucks a tournament or more, this is stuff you know already!
A guy like my self who works all week and gets a chance to fish four or five times and about two tournaments a month would like to see a series that has an entry fee that allows us to fish a competitive format and does not kill our budgets of a few hundred bucks a month.
Nor Cal is about as inexpensive as they get and the competition is very formatable, these guys really know how to run a great Pro/Am event.
I think that most of the non professional guys who love to fish competitively would really support a circuit like this because they can work a few hours a week overtime and not break the bank, but with the current economy they cant come up with the hundred and fifty plus the other associated cost and they just dont put a priority on it. This is why the FPT and the team events are drawing big numbers is because two guys splitting the entry fee
Give them a very basic base entry, with progressive options and you open up the doors to every budget and each guy puts what he can afford on the line, if you dont go all in you dont win big, if you bet bigger you win bigger.
You would at least draw a lot more boats and when the economic tides turn you have a following that you can really build upon.

Just my thoughts!
George