Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Heavan forbid they lose the right to ship their irrigation water to LA.
LL South
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Yeah, for once I guess the beggars won't be choosers.Pump that silty water while we have it ! They should make those idiots account for all shipped water, find those reselling it,and cut those bottom feeders off!!
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Guys, there is no one denying that water has been sold in past, but I can assure you its no where near as much as been portrayed. These farmers have been on such reduced amounts that there is nothing to sell! They are trying farm down there and producing food and fiber. Water is needed to accomplish this. And yes they do have a right to farm down there, remember they are feeding us!
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Just think all the delta smelt fish sticks they'll be pumping And your produce will stay at a reasonable price now
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
"Don't take life too seriously. You're not getting out alive." Bugs Bunny
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
They're not feeding us--they're exporting their crops overseas and using below market-price water that's subsidized by us taxpayers.FSHRFWL wrote:Water is needed to accomplish this. And yes they do have a right to farm down there, remember they are feeding us!
Oh no, I've fed the trolls...
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
A total national water infrastucture overhaul would make water available to all, make jobs, and let us feed the world, which is facing large scale food shortages.
Pump the water from the Mississippi up to Lake Powell, and the west would turn green. And Mexico would have enough water to keep it's people fed without them having to cross into the US for jobs.
One fourth of China is facing a dust bowl, for openers, and climate changes are threatening most of the world's food supplies, in one way or another.
We wouldn't have to worry about people attacking us if we're feeding them. I'd like to see them try and eat oil.
But we, as a nation, would have to acknowledge that using food for international leverage is every bit as legitimate as using oil.
Pump the water from the Mississippi up to Lake Powell, and the west would turn green. And Mexico would have enough water to keep it's people fed without them having to cross into the US for jobs.
One fourth of China is facing a dust bowl, for openers, and climate changes are threatening most of the world's food supplies, in one way or another.
We wouldn't have to worry about people attacking us if we're feeding them. I'd like to see them try and eat oil.
But we, as a nation, would have to acknowledge that using food for international leverage is every bit as legitimate as using oil.
Attitude plus effort equal success
CLEAN AND DRY
CLEAN AND DRY
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Mark that was a very good statement and very true. Good job. Sorry to say most of the people on hear don't understand the world
is in for some deep problems and the greed of our brothers is going to bring us to our knees sooner then later if we don't change NOW.
is in for some deep problems and the greed of our brothers is going to bring us to our knees sooner then later if we don't change NOW.
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
What do the west side farmers grow?
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
iv posted that before, its a win win. fill up every lake on the colorado and let so cal tap off that. and we can keep our water up here.mark poulson wrote:
Pump the water from the Mississippi up to Lake Powell, and the west would turn green. .
theres a fine line between fishin and standin on a boat like an idiot
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
MONEY, anyone know a poor west side farmer or even one that pays taxes? didnt think so.
LMB
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
They grow almonds, tomatoes, melons, garlic, wheat, cotton etc. and its not exported. And really, what is wrong with them making money, dont all us make money at what we do!
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
YEPPERS Justin, HELL PRIOR TO INTERSTATE 5 MOST OF THAT WAS WASTE LAND ANYWAY. WATERING IT HAS JUST BROUGHT MORE PROBLEMS. Seems to me I wrote about the same issue about 25 years ago.
Although I gotta say love the Missippi river water to Powell Idea, that's the kind of bold project that this country was built on. Hoover Dam, Golden Gate Bridge and so many more....
Although I gotta say love the Missippi river water to Powell Idea, that's the kind of bold project that this country was built on. Hoover Dam, Golden Gate Bridge and so many more....
Dan Mathisen
dan_mathisen@att.net
209-612-5028
Ben Green Insurance
dan_mathisen@att.net
209-612-5028
Ben Green Insurance
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
They export quite a bit. Don't be such a cheerleader for agricultural welfare queens.FSHRFWL wrote:They grow almonds, tomatoes, melons, garlic, wheat, cotton etc. and its not exported. And really, what is wrong with them making money, dont all us make money at what we do!
You know very well they're only able to farm arid wasteland because of subsidized water. The districts still owe us taxpayers millions upon millions for construction of CWP infrastructure--they agreed to pay up decades ago yet thanks to their lobbyists they're not held accountable for their share of the debt.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Almonds ?? Really? I thought Westlands district were considered junior water rights holders.Being such I thought their agreements obligated them to grow annual crops only.Last time I checked Almonds were considered perennials. Maybe you should instruct them to re-read those original water contracts a little closer instead of lecturing us on what their rights are.
I'm real curious to hear when the rights of the Northern California folks get acknowledged.When do we get the right to unlimited irrigation.When can we put more of our Ag land back into production??What guarantees are we getting on secure water supplies for human consumption ,and wildlife preservation. When does anybody south of San Luis think about more non northern supplied water storage.
Don't much care about your farmers produce cause I still remember how to grow my own stuff.There isn't much grown in the valley that isn't picked for packing and shipping so market quality I still find lacking.
All I can say is get it when you can instead of when you want.There will be a major clamp down on that water again when supplies run low so get ready now.REMEMBER ITS NOT AN UNLIMITED RESOURCE AND ITS NOT ONLY FOR POINTS SOUTH.
I'm real curious to hear when the rights of the Northern California folks get acknowledged.When do we get the right to unlimited irrigation.When can we put more of our Ag land back into production??What guarantees are we getting on secure water supplies for human consumption ,and wildlife preservation. When does anybody south of San Luis think about more non northern supplied water storage.
Don't much care about your farmers produce cause I still remember how to grow my own stuff.There isn't much grown in the valley that isn't picked for packing and shipping so market quality I still find lacking.
All I can say is get it when you can instead of when you want.There will be a major clamp down on that water again when supplies run low so get ready now.REMEMBER ITS NOT AN UNLIMITED RESOURCE AND ITS NOT ONLY FOR POINTS SOUTH.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
SO true Fish Food. Get ready for them to try and ram yet another bond measure down our throats for the new canal. 11 Billion!!! HA!! That'll get ground broke. I thought I heard total was going to be around 40Bill. and we're broke?? HAHAHA
I say we sink those suckers till they pay off their actual debt.Why should we pay for it??
I say we sink those suckers till they pay off their actual debt.Why should we pay for it??
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Why do they need water pumped to them now haven't they gotten plenty of rain?
This is the second time this topic has come up and I believe by the same author. Don't you have anything else better to do then try and stir the pot?
The best thing to happen would be to let all those farms dry up and blow away. I would gladly pay 3X the cost for produce and have full lakes, rivers and a healthy delta then whats going on now.
This is the second time this topic has come up and I believe by the same author. Don't you have anything else better to do then try and stir the pot?
The best thing to happen would be to let all those farms dry up and blow away. I would gladly pay 3X the cost for produce and have full lakes, rivers and a healthy delta then whats going on now.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Growing up in the Salinas Valley thats all I ever see is farming. I can still throw a rock from my front door, and thats not to far,and hit the field where they grow Strawberry's. They only plant Lettuce to rotate the soil every 3 years or so and thats the only time you see equipment. But when they do switch its plowing 24-7 for about 2 week's. After about three days it puts you to sleep
I watch people work those fields when they pick the Strawberrys and its amazing. It was the first job I ever had as a kid.
Farming is America just like the Cowboy and they need water.
I watch people work those fields when they pick the Strawberrys and its amazing. It was the first job I ever had as a kid.
Farming is America just like the Cowboy and they need water.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
So is stiffing the taxpayers, which is what the ag districts/water interests have been doing to us for decades.CN wrote:Farming is America
Yea, boil it all down to simple sloganeering.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Well Corporate Ag welfare queens sued for increased flows for their water bank and won a temporary restraining order last Friday that allowed increase flows out of the Delta at the expense of salmon smolts. In a reverse twist as of today they get even less water...From SalmonAid:
"Thanks to the heroic efforts of attorneys at NRDC and EarthJustice and with the federal government (clients include, but are not limited to, PCFFA and TBI), the water abusers request for temporary restraining order (TRO) of OMR flow restrictions necessary to protect Delta smelt was denied today by Judge Wanger. [OMR flows are a measure of whether the San Joaquin is flowing towards the sea or towards the pumps). Thus, those restrictions go into effect (OMR (reverse) flows limited to -4,00cfs).
Giving new definition to "ironic": the Delta smelt flow restrictions were triggered by recent high entrainment of Delta smelt that followed Wangers suspension of OMR flow restrictions. When the salmon Biological Opinion was temporarily suspended, water export pumping rates went up, more smelt were entrained and thus, MORE restrictive export restrictions went into effect. So, the net-net of the water users suits is that they have produced greater flow restrictions than they would have had had they "restrained" themselves."
Don't celebrate just yet though... this case (and others playing out in the same court) are far from over... but for now, we can enjoy the laugh and the relative protections for suffering Delta smelt, longfin smelt, winter run Chinook salmon, spring run Chinook salmon, sturgeon and ...and ...and ...
Jonathan Rosenfield, Ph.D.
Conservation Biologist
The Bay Institute of San Francisco
510 684 4757
President, SalmonAID Festival www.salmonaid.org
"Thanks to the heroic efforts of attorneys at NRDC and EarthJustice and with the federal government (clients include, but are not limited to, PCFFA and TBI), the water abusers request for temporary restraining order (TRO) of OMR flow restrictions necessary to protect Delta smelt was denied today by Judge Wanger. [OMR flows are a measure of whether the San Joaquin is flowing towards the sea or towards the pumps). Thus, those restrictions go into effect (OMR (reverse) flows limited to -4,00cfs).
Giving new definition to "ironic": the Delta smelt flow restrictions were triggered by recent high entrainment of Delta smelt that followed Wangers suspension of OMR flow restrictions. When the salmon Biological Opinion was temporarily suspended, water export pumping rates went up, more smelt were entrained and thus, MORE restrictive export restrictions went into effect. So, the net-net of the water users suits is that they have produced greater flow restrictions than they would have had had they "restrained" themselves."
Don't celebrate just yet though... this case (and others playing out in the same court) are far from over... but for now, we can enjoy the laugh and the relative protections for suffering Delta smelt, longfin smelt, winter run Chinook salmon, spring run Chinook salmon, sturgeon and ...and ...and ...
Jonathan Rosenfield, Ph.D.
Conservation Biologist
The Bay Institute of San Francisco
510 684 4757
President, SalmonAID Festival www.salmonaid.org
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Salinas Valley is a far cry from the old sea bed wasteland that is Westland Water District. There is merit in irrigating the Salinas Valley, Hollister, Pajaro, et. al.CN wrote:Growing up in the Salinas Valley thats all I ever see is farming. I can still throw a rock from my front door, and thats not to far,and hit the field where they grow Strawberry's. They only plant Lettuce to rotate the soil every 3 years or so and thats the only time you see equipment. But when they do switch its plowing 24-7 for about 2 week's. After about three days it puts you to sleep
I watch people work those fields when they pick the Strawberrys and its amazing. It was the first job I ever had as a kid.
Farming is America just like the Cowboy and they need water.
Perhaps if the land that make up Westlands Water District were actually divided up into 6,100 "family farms" as was promised when the state's water project was approved, I'd have a little sympathy. And, perhaps if Westlands actually cleaned up their wastewater mess in the first place and not been allowed to break the law for decades, I'd be more sympathetic.
Bottom line: It's complete corruption with zero accountability.
BTW, The San Luis Unit still owes the over $450 million in interest free capital construciton costs.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
kwikfish wrote:Giving new definition to "ironic": the Delta smelt flow restrictions were triggered by recent high entrainment of Delta smelt that followed Wangers suspension of OMR flow restrictions. When the salmon Biological Opinion was temporarily suspended, water export pumping rates went up, more smelt were entrained and thus, MORE restrictive export restrictions went into effect. So, the net-net of the water users suits is that they have produced greater flow restrictions than they would have had had they "restrained" themselves."
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Their production has increased by double in the past few years and the majority of it has been cotton, but the farming is not the problem!
The real problem is the money they are losing for water they can't resell.
They are reselling the water to other water districts for as much as $5500.00 per acre foot when they are only paying about $17.00 dollars an acre foot.
The real problem is the money they are losing for water they can't resell.
They are reselling the water to other water districts for as much as $5500.00 per acre foot when they are only paying about $17.00 dollars an acre foot.
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
BINGO, We have a knowledgable winna! And there in lies the stupid, financial politics of this state! Okay, I've ovestepped my common sense and bounds by saying way too much on this thread, I'm goin fishin, before it git's Nice-N-Warm in here! HAR!Gene Buchholz wrote:Their production has increased by double in the past few years and the majority of it has been cotton, but the farming is not the problem!
The real problem is the money they are losing for water they can't resell.
They are reselling the water to other water districts for as much as $5500.00 per acre foot when they are only paying about $17.00 dollars an acre foot.
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
I had lunch the other day with someone who mentioned his relatives were worth alot of money...He didn't know they sold water rights for 77 million $$$ until I told him...Funny, he invited others out for pizza one day but lagged back and another guy payed the bill...At least I get him to pay my way into the horse races when we go!...He even pays the bridge toll of $4...Now when it hits $5, we'll see!...Got two horses for him Saturday but they'll probably be longshots, he only likes to bet chalk...
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
I think the above items were brought up in previous posts--growing water-intensive crops like cotton (and for export) while using way-below-free-market-price water tends to rub folks the wrong way.Gene Buchholz wrote:Their production has increased by double in the past few years and the majority of it has been cotton, but the farming is not the problem!
The real problem is the money they are losing for water they can't resell.
They are reselling the water to other water districts for as much as $5500.00 per acre foot when they are only paying about $17.00 dollars an acre foot.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Great reminder. I sort of take it for granted that the above message is common knowledge.Gene Buchholz wrote:Their production has increased by double in the past few years and the majority of it has been cotton, but the farming is not the problem!
The real problem is the money they are losing for water they can't resell.
They are reselling the water to other water districts for as much as $5500.00 per acre foot when they are only paying about $17.00 dollars an acre foot.
I personally know farmers in Orange County/Fountain Valley, etc. and they are on water meters....... Care to guess where they are purchasing their water from..... These are true family run farms who drive around in old beat up Chevys while the Water District folks pay 'em a visit in their brand new corporate trucks.
Go to page 30 of the following law review or if you have time, please read the entire document.
http://www.lloydgcarter.com/content/091 ... oyd-carter
All in all, this is another example of blatant corruption allowed to slide for decades and perhaps decades to come. Pathetic.
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
There is a bill being put on the ballot in November which is about the canal and the water rights it has to be stopped.
Bob Barrack and a few others are putting on a Bass tournament I believe in October and will be trying to get the news media and other influential people there. Most of the proceeds will go towards Save The Delta foundation.
We would like as many boats as possible. The dates will be announced as soon as the permits are pulled.
Bob Barrack and a few others are putting on a Bass tournament I believe in October and will be trying to get the news media and other influential people there. Most of the proceeds will go towards Save The Delta foundation.
We would like as many boats as possible. The dates will be announced as soon as the permits are pulled.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
First off I dont know much about the water wars but I deliver alot of there PVC pipe (irrigation) down south and after talking with a few farmers over the past couple of years its scary whats hitting the super markets.
I was told ( by 3 farmers) they dont have enough water so they dig wells and most of the well water contains, I forget what it was called but its bad stuff (poison) so they add another chemical to the water which is more poison which is suppose to break down over time, problem is they use it up till harvest so this stuff has no time to break down and then it hits our dinner tables!!!!
So if your gonna cut off the good water then better stop farming all togeather down there
Im just sayin......
I was told ( by 3 farmers) they dont have enough water so they dig wells and most of the well water contains, I forget what it was called but its bad stuff (poison) so they add another chemical to the water which is more poison which is suppose to break down over time, problem is they use it up till harvest so this stuff has no time to break down and then it hits our dinner tables!!!!
So if your gonna cut off the good water then better stop farming all togeather down there
Im just sayin......
Tight Lines Dom
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Dom that build up is from years and years of over fertilization and pesticide overspray......Now this has leached into OUR aquifer and we have to deal with the consequences. Oh and if they don't get water via the CVWP or Aquaduct they just drill million $ deep wells and suck the living hell out of anything that is left. I have even done some mapping on the the Old Tule lake basin and the oil/irrigation pumping to account for the sump/depression in the land left from the void. Now the government makes the oil companies take responsibilty for their damamge but still the farmers remain relatively scott free.I was told ( by 3 farmers) they dont have enough water so they dig wells and most of the well water contains, I forget what it was called but its bad stuff (poison) so they add another chemical to the water which is more poison which is suppose to break down over time, problem is they use it up till harvest so this stuff has no time to break down and then it hits our dinner tables!!!!
LL South
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Guess I know which jigs not to buy now!
Lefty's Lure Co.
custom handcrafted jigs
home of the puffball jig
Lefty's Lure Co.
custom handcrafted jigs
home of the puffball jig
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
wow cz im glad you cant buy them you'll have touch time gettin your hands on them i know the guy that manufacture them and he just doesnt sell to anybody.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
LOL
No kidding Mark, you know the dude.
As if we all have not been inundated with your random posts on multiple forums in the past talking about jigs just so you can promote.
Your just troll!
No kidding Mark, you know the dude.
As if we all have not been inundated with your random posts on multiple forums in the past talking about jigs just so you can promote.
Your just troll!
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Sorry Justin but your wrong here. Its not "pesticide residue"JustinD wrote:Dom that build up is from years and years of over fertilization and pesticide overspray......Now this has leached into OUR aquifer and we have to deal with the consequences. Oh and if they don't get water via the CVWP or Aquaduct they just drill million $ deep wells and suck the living hell out of anything that is left. I have even done some mapping on the the Old Tule lake basin and the oil/irrigation pumping to account for the sump/depression in the land left from the void. Now the government makes the oil companies take responsibilty for their damamge but still the farmers remain relatively scott free.I was told ( by 3 farmers) they dont have enough water so they dig wells and most of the well water contains, I forget what it was called but its bad stuff (poison) so they add another chemical to the water which is more poison which is suppose to break down over time, problem is they use it up till harvest so this stuff has no time to break down and then it hits our dinner tables!!!!
Those 3 farmers are referring to Arsenic. Levels of it are found naturally in all ground water.
The problem is the farmers are pumping the water table down to make a living and getting into the higher ppm, thus having to add sulferic acid, chlorine and iron
With very limited surface water available they have no other choice.
Now, this is not regards to Justins post. Just to the save the Delta comrades.
That Delta water is just as much the farmers water as it is "yours" We are all Californians and that water is not just "yours"
Comprimises need to be found, period.
You have a legit arguement that people are getting rich by selling allocations for profit, and that needs to be stopped. But there are families, towns, cities going hungary, broke and hurting the valley.
Again, I know you guys are strong minded and I just flew into a hornets nest with that.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Oh but when it comes to the delta fishing is more important. But dont worry about the farmers that are trying to keep there farms going or people working the farms so they too can feed there familys. There nothing new about selling water to southern ca thats been going on for 50 years THINK ABOUT THE NEXT TIME YOU HEAT YOUR POOL OR WATER YOUR LAWNS OR WASH YOUR CARS OR TRUCKS that water farming could be using instead. The delta was'nt put there for fishing only.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
If for some reason there are no more computers for me to fix I’ll change my livelihood. If the resources aren’t there for farmers to farm do something else for a living! If you feel you must grown cotton in a desert go figure it out yourselves and don’t put the burden on the whole state of California! It’s not our fault that you don’t have any frickin water.
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
In all, I say after reading about it for months. Its called greed. No different than any other kind of busniess today. Greed and Power.
In this case, history of the land will show that it has been over harvested with land that wasn't meant too be farmed. Water that was their (history will show) has been depleted, moved, destroyed etc.
Kwik is right in what he is say'in....Water for what they (Corporations) want it for as little bearing on our needs.....If we do need it. We're paying 10 fold for it....Cotton, ya right.....Shipped to some 3rd world and brought back here has a shirt sold anywhere from Target, walmarts, too Norstrom. Do we really need all this farming down their. Not,
The 3rd world should just get off it XXXX, throw out the Dictators or shoot their dump greedy ....ssss's and let the people become civilized and America's wouldn't need to feed the world.
Politic's + Lobbyiest, + Power + greed = Disaster in some form.
The old Man
In this case, history of the land will show that it has been over harvested with land that wasn't meant too be farmed. Water that was their (history will show) has been depleted, moved, destroyed etc.
Kwik is right in what he is say'in....Water for what they (Corporations) want it for as little bearing on our needs.....If we do need it. We're paying 10 fold for it....Cotton, ya right.....Shipped to some 3rd world and brought back here has a shirt sold anywhere from Target, walmarts, too Norstrom. Do we really need all this farming down their. Not,
The 3rd world should just get off it XXXX, throw out the Dictators or shoot their dump greedy ....ssss's and let the people become civilized and America's wouldn't need to feed the world.
Politic's + Lobbyiest, + Power + greed = Disaster in some form.
The old Man
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www.calbassguide.com ,
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
There's to many people in the state time to then the herd.
What about are farmers up here they get the water turned off but you don't hear that on the news.
What about are farmers up here they get the water turned off but you don't hear that on the news.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
jigfish1....Its not about fishing...its about saving a very unique eco- system......and like MikeL. said there are compromises to be made...I know my family decided NOT to replant acres of nut trees.
And thanks also Mike for the clarification on the arsenic. I thought Dom was refering to the high salinity levels via over watering ect......Compromises need to be explored and regulations need to be put in place AND enforced.
And thanks also Mike for the clarification on the arsenic. I thought Dom was refering to the high salinity levels via over watering ect......Compromises need to be explored and regulations need to be put in place AND enforced.
LL South
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
A related article of interest from the 2/12/10 edition of the Sacramento Bee:Gene Buchholz wrote:There is a bill being put on the ballot in November which is about the canal and the water rights it has to be stopped.
Underground Tunnel Gets Closer Look for Shipping Water Through Delta
By Matt Weiser
mweiser@sacbee.com
Published: Friday, Feb. 12, 2010 - 12:00 am | Page 1A
A giant tunnel – not a canal – has emerged as the leading option to ship Sacramento River water across the Delta to thirsty Californians from the Silicon Valley to San Diego.
Officials guiding the Bay Delta Conservation Plan chose the tunnel for more detailed study at a meeting Thursday in Sacramento. The plan is an effort to secure California water supplies from environmental problems, flood risk and rising sea levels in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta.
About 25 million Californians and 2 million acres of farmland depend on the Delta today for at least some of their water supplies.
The decision Thursday only targets the tunnel for more detailed study. It was not a decision to build a tunnel or to exclude other options.
The tunnel would be 43 miles long. Over most of its length it would consist of not one, but two, parallel tunnels about 150 feet underground, each 33 feet in diameter.
They would rank among the largest tunnels of their kind in the world. Multiple tunnelling machines would work simultaneously for about eight years, consuming $284 million worth of electricity to build them.
The tunnels could move water at 15,000 cubic feet per second, or 10 times the volume in the American River today.
Estimated cost: Up to $11.6 billion.
Water agencies and users that benefit, notably San Joaquin Valley farmers and the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, have agreed to pay for it. The cost would be passed on to their ratepayers.
"I believe it is a milestone that we just arrived at," said Karen Scarborough, undersecretary of California's Natural Resources Agency, who chairs the group's steering committee. "It's a major thing that we just did."
Participating environmental groups supported further study of the tunnel but have not yet agreed to support its construction.
Their involvement was shaken Thursday by news that U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein plans to amend a jobs bill to alter Delta fish protections. It would guarantee San Joaquin Valley farmers 40 percent of their contract water deliveries for two years. Such diversions could harm threatened salmon and Delta smelt.
Ann Hayden, a senior water analyst at Environmental Defense Fund, said her group would quit the conservation planning process if the Feinstein amendment passes.
She called it an act of betrayal, since some water interests on the committee undoubtedly asked Feinstein for the amendment.
"It doesn't help to know that folks we're partnering with are playing it both ways," Hayden said. "It will make the long-term planning almost meaningless if, in the short term, actions are taken that push some species to the point of extinction."
A draft environmental study is not expected until year's end. It then must be approved by wildlife agencies to satisfy the Endangered Species Act.
In Washington on Thursday, Feinstein said, "I believe we need a fair compromise that will respect the Endangered Species Act while recognizing the fact that people in California's breadbasket face complete economic ruin without help." She discussed the water delivery issue in a conference call with Westlands Water District and others favoring more irrigation deliveries to farms.
The Delta project also hinges on state politics. The Schwarzenegger administration supports the plan and believes it has legal authority to build a canal or tunnel. But a new governor will be in charge by the time a decision must be made. The Legislature also could influence the outcome.
Current estimates are that construction would start in 2013 and finish in 2022.
Some view the tunnel favorably because it minimizes environmental harm on the surface, as well as the amount of land that must be acquired.
That is significant because most Delta residents oppose the project and could mount fierce resistance. Already, the state Department of Water Resources is fighting more than 120 lawsuits with Delta property owners who refuse access for preliminary surveys.
DWR Deputy Director Jerry Johns said his department was pleased that the tunnel option is being studied.
The tunnel, however, comes with greater construction risk, largely because the structure of soils 150 feet beneath the Delta is not well known.
Tunneling of the sort required for the project is actually easier in solid rock than in loose material, because of threats of collapse and flooding.
Ken Verosub, a UC Davis geology professor, said there is no solid material beneath the Delta. Instead, it is probably layer upon layer of loose material deposited as the Delta shrank and expanded with repeated glacial periods.
"There are older Delta sediments – peats and organics and sands – down several hundred feet at least," said Roy Shlemon, a consulting geologist in Newport Beach who has studied the Delta.
© Copyright The Sacramento Bee. All rights reserved.
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Myths and Facts about San Joaquin Valley Job Loss
Myth: The high rate of joblessness in the San Joaquin Valley is due to agricultural unemployment.
Fact: The subprime mortgage crisis and housing implosion caused most of the job loss in the San Joaquin Valley. UOP studies have estimated that 47,000 construction jobs were lost in San Joaquin Valley, as opposed to 8,500 jobs in agriculture.1
Myth: All of the agricultural jobs lost in the San Joaquin Valley were due to Endangered Species Act related cutbacks of pumping from the Delta.
Fact: The UOP study estimated that 8,500 agricultural jobs were lost in the Valley due to cutbacks in water deliveries, but of those jobs, 6,500 were lost due to the drought, and 2,000 were lost due to the ESA related cutbacks. Many of the 6,500 jobs lost due to the drought are likely to return this year.1
Myth: The Endangered Species Act is preventing storage of spring runoff.
Fact: As of February 10, the Federal share of the San Luis reservoir, one of the main reservoirs supplying the Central Valley, has gone from very low to 81% of the 15 year average. The rest of the Central Valley Project reservoirs are also filling up, and are at 78% of the 15 year average. The reservoirs were at abnormally low levels due to the drought and increased demand, so it takes a while for them to fill.2
Myth: Westside San Joaquin agricultural water deliveries are expected to be 5% of contract amounts in 2010.
Fact: The Bureau of Reclamation has not yet made a determination of water deliveries for 2010. If this turns out to be a wet year, the projected allocations could be 25% to 40% of contract amounts.
Myth: Westside San Joaquin agricultural water deliveries are typical of the entire San Joaquin Valley.
Fact: Many agricultural contractors with more senior water rights have gotten significantly better deliveries. The San Joaquin River Exchange Contractors got 100% of their water allocation in 2009, for a total of 881,000 acre feet. The Class I Friant contractors also got 100% of their water allocation, another 800,000 acre feet.3
Myth: Westside San Joaquin agricultural contractors normally get 100% of their contracted water.
Fact: This happened in 2006, due to an extraordinarily wet year and an administration that allowed so much pumping that it caused the complete collapse of the Delta ecosystem. Normal deliveries to the West side of the San Joaquin Valley averaged approximately 64% of contracted amounts in the 1990s, and 61.5% in the 2000s.
Myth: Environmental protections for the Delta cost jobs.
Fact: The Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta is the most important estuary on the West Coast. It is the nursery for many fish species of commercial importance. A study commissioned by Southwick Associates showed that the 2008-2009 salmon fishing closure has cost an estimated 23,000 jobs and $1.4 billion annually to the California economy. California has over 2,000 businesses that derive most or all of their income from the recreational and commercial salmon industry.4
Myth: A large number of almond orchards in the Central Valley have been cut down.
Fact: The California almond industry had record shipments of 1.39 billion pounds in 2008-2009, up 10% over 2007-2008.5 Farmers in Westlands Water District went from 48,325 acres of almonds in 2005 to 70,252 in 2008. They planted 4,042 acres of almond trees between 2007 and 2008. Westlands Water District reported excess water in 2008 enough to export 50,000 acre feet6. In 2009 they stopped irrigating 2,389 acres of almonds.7
Myth: "The San Joaquin Valley is experiencing an unprecedented economic crisis. The unemployment rate is 40 percent in some Valley towns, and people are standing in bread lines. (Feinstein press release, 2-11-10)
Fact: Unemployment is chronically high among San Joaquin Valley agriculture's seasonal labor-pool communities. The figure below shows that Mendota, the community used for staging appearances by Governor Schwarzenegger, Fox News' Sean Hannity, and, most recently, '60 Minutes' suffers high double-digit unemployment in both drought and wet years.8
1 Unemployment in the Central Valley, Fish or Foreclosure, http://forecast.pacific.edu/articles/Pa ... losure.pdf and Employment Impacts of Reduced Water Supplies to San Joaquin Valley Agriculture
http://forecast.pacific.edu/water-jobs/ ... r-Jobs.pdf. A UC Davis study had a somewhat higher estimate, 21,000 agricultural jobs lost in the San Joaquin Valley, 16,000 due to the drought, and 5,000 due to restrictions on Delta pumping. The UOP study was based on a review of the data, and the UC Davis study was based on an economic simulation.
2 Daily Water Supply Report by Bureau of Reclamation, Central Valley Operations: http://www.usbr.gov/mp/cvo/vungvari/dayrpt.pdf
3 US Department of the Interior, Bureau of Reclamation, California Drought Response fact sheet
http://www.doi.gov/documents/California ... _Sheet.pdf
4 Study commissioned by American Sportfishing Association, for more details see http://www.asafishing.org/newsroom/docu ... nomics.pdf
5 Almond Board of California, 2008/09 Almond Shipments Shatter Prior Year Records, October 2009 http://www.almondboard.com/outlook/2009 ... er2009.asp
6 Jul 2, 2008 ...DWR announces up to 50000 acre-feet of groundwater will be pumped from wells within the Westlands Water District into the California Aqueduct for transfer to Semitropic WSD...www.acwa.com/eNewsletter/index.asp?issue=7/2/2008
7 Westlands Water District, 2005-2009 crop reports.
8 From the July, 2009 issue of 'Rural Migration News, a project of the University of California at Davis :
California is in the third year of drought. Reducing water deliveries and shifting water available from lower to higher value crops tends to be more labor intensive. Agriculture around Mendota (labor force 4,700 in May 2009) in western Fresno County was more affected by reduced water deliveries than Parlier (6,200) in eastern Fresno County. Mendota's unemployment rate averaged four percent higher than in Parlier between 2003 and 2007, but was five percent higher in 2009, suggesting an extra 50 unemployed workers in Mendota. Local area unemployment rates use 2000 Census data to distribute the unemployed to cities such as Mendota and Parlier.
For more about Mendota and the Westlands Water District see http://www.ggu.edu/lawlibrary/environme ... Carter.pdf
Myth: The high rate of joblessness in the San Joaquin Valley is due to agricultural unemployment.
Fact: The subprime mortgage crisis and housing implosion caused most of the job loss in the San Joaquin Valley. UOP studies have estimated that 47,000 construction jobs were lost in San Joaquin Valley, as opposed to 8,500 jobs in agriculture.1
Myth: All of the agricultural jobs lost in the San Joaquin Valley were due to Endangered Species Act related cutbacks of pumping from the Delta.
Fact: The UOP study estimated that 8,500 agricultural jobs were lost in the Valley due to cutbacks in water deliveries, but of those jobs, 6,500 were lost due to the drought, and 2,000 were lost due to the ESA related cutbacks. Many of the 6,500 jobs lost due to the drought are likely to return this year.1
Myth: The Endangered Species Act is preventing storage of spring runoff.
Fact: As of February 10, the Federal share of the San Luis reservoir, one of the main reservoirs supplying the Central Valley, has gone from very low to 81% of the 15 year average. The rest of the Central Valley Project reservoirs are also filling up, and are at 78% of the 15 year average. The reservoirs were at abnormally low levels due to the drought and increased demand, so it takes a while for them to fill.2
Myth: Westside San Joaquin agricultural water deliveries are expected to be 5% of contract amounts in 2010.
Fact: The Bureau of Reclamation has not yet made a determination of water deliveries for 2010. If this turns out to be a wet year, the projected allocations could be 25% to 40% of contract amounts.
Myth: Westside San Joaquin agricultural water deliveries are typical of the entire San Joaquin Valley.
Fact: Many agricultural contractors with more senior water rights have gotten significantly better deliveries. The San Joaquin River Exchange Contractors got 100% of their water allocation in 2009, for a total of 881,000 acre feet. The Class I Friant contractors also got 100% of their water allocation, another 800,000 acre feet.3
Myth: Westside San Joaquin agricultural contractors normally get 100% of their contracted water.
Fact: This happened in 2006, due to an extraordinarily wet year and an administration that allowed so much pumping that it caused the complete collapse of the Delta ecosystem. Normal deliveries to the West side of the San Joaquin Valley averaged approximately 64% of contracted amounts in the 1990s, and 61.5% in the 2000s.
Myth: Environmental protections for the Delta cost jobs.
Fact: The Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta is the most important estuary on the West Coast. It is the nursery for many fish species of commercial importance. A study commissioned by Southwick Associates showed that the 2008-2009 salmon fishing closure has cost an estimated 23,000 jobs and $1.4 billion annually to the California economy. California has over 2,000 businesses that derive most or all of their income from the recreational and commercial salmon industry.4
Myth: A large number of almond orchards in the Central Valley have been cut down.
Fact: The California almond industry had record shipments of 1.39 billion pounds in 2008-2009, up 10% over 2007-2008.5 Farmers in Westlands Water District went from 48,325 acres of almonds in 2005 to 70,252 in 2008. They planted 4,042 acres of almond trees between 2007 and 2008. Westlands Water District reported excess water in 2008 enough to export 50,000 acre feet6. In 2009 they stopped irrigating 2,389 acres of almonds.7
Myth: "The San Joaquin Valley is experiencing an unprecedented economic crisis. The unemployment rate is 40 percent in some Valley towns, and people are standing in bread lines. (Feinstein press release, 2-11-10)
Fact: Unemployment is chronically high among San Joaquin Valley agriculture's seasonal labor-pool communities. The figure below shows that Mendota, the community used for staging appearances by Governor Schwarzenegger, Fox News' Sean Hannity, and, most recently, '60 Minutes' suffers high double-digit unemployment in both drought and wet years.8
1 Unemployment in the Central Valley, Fish or Foreclosure, http://forecast.pacific.edu/articles/Pa ... losure.pdf and Employment Impacts of Reduced Water Supplies to San Joaquin Valley Agriculture
http://forecast.pacific.edu/water-jobs/ ... r-Jobs.pdf. A UC Davis study had a somewhat higher estimate, 21,000 agricultural jobs lost in the San Joaquin Valley, 16,000 due to the drought, and 5,000 due to restrictions on Delta pumping. The UOP study was based on a review of the data, and the UC Davis study was based on an economic simulation.
2 Daily Water Supply Report by Bureau of Reclamation, Central Valley Operations: http://www.usbr.gov/mp/cvo/vungvari/dayrpt.pdf
3 US Department of the Interior, Bureau of Reclamation, California Drought Response fact sheet
http://www.doi.gov/documents/California ... _Sheet.pdf
4 Study commissioned by American Sportfishing Association, for more details see http://www.asafishing.org/newsroom/docu ... nomics.pdf
5 Almond Board of California, 2008/09 Almond Shipments Shatter Prior Year Records, October 2009 http://www.almondboard.com/outlook/2009 ... er2009.asp
6 Jul 2, 2008 ...DWR announces up to 50000 acre-feet of groundwater will be pumped from wells within the Westlands Water District into the California Aqueduct for transfer to Semitropic WSD...www.acwa.com/eNewsletter/index.asp?issue=7/2/2008
7 Westlands Water District, 2005-2009 crop reports.
8 From the July, 2009 issue of 'Rural Migration News, a project of the University of California at Davis :
California is in the third year of drought. Reducing water deliveries and shifting water available from lower to higher value crops tends to be more labor intensive. Agriculture around Mendota (labor force 4,700 in May 2009) in western Fresno County was more affected by reduced water deliveries than Parlier (6,200) in eastern Fresno County. Mendota's unemployment rate averaged four percent higher than in Parlier between 2003 and 2007, but was five percent higher in 2009, suggesting an extra 50 unemployed workers in Mendota. Local area unemployment rates use 2000 Census data to distribute the unemployed to cities such as Mendota and Parlier.
For more about Mendota and the Westlands Water District see http://www.ggu.edu/lawlibrary/environme ... Carter.pdf
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
^ ^ ^
That's great info...
That's great info...
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
And, 'they' have been doing so and breaking various laws and agreements along the way..... Not to mention the half of billion or so dollars the San Luis Unit still owes for contruction costs, etc.jigfish1 wrote:Oh but when it comes to the delta fishing is more important. But dont worry about the farmers that are trying to keep there farms going or people working the farms so they too can feed there familys. There nothing new about selling water to southern ca thats been going on for 50 years THINK ABOUT THE NEXT TIME YOU HEAT YOUR POOL OR WATER YOUR LAWNS OR WASH YOUR CARS OR TRUCKS that water farming could be using instead. The delta was'nt put there for fishing only.
In short, the CVP was built to irrigate 6,100 individual farms that were meant for 'mom and pops' farms, not to irrigate Southern California swimming pools. Corp Ag. shoved their way in an bought up all the land and along with it, the water.
"Fishing" has little to do with it at all. It's about the blatant corruption that's been allowed to go on for decades without little or no accountability or public awareness. It's also about leaving water where it should be, and that alone, will go a long way in rebuilding a severely damaged ecosystem. Once the "house" is fixed, former inhabitants will return. And, perhaps that means that the desert loses inhabitants that were not supposed to be desert inhabitants in the first place.
It's very simple to me: Bring the situation out into the open and call a 'spade a spade'. Politicians and the Beverly Hills 'farmers' are spinning the story as they have been for the 50+ years. Instead of building "canals" or "underground tunnels" or shove an $11 billion bond in our faces, how about solving the real problem by not irrigating desert whether it be for homes or farms, and by retiring the 400K acres that were recommended in the first place because Westlands et. al. is not willing to pay what is necessary to clean and treat all the selenium tainted wastewater.
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Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
kwikfish said,
"It's very simple to me: Bring the situation out into the open and call a 'spade a spade'. Politicians and the Beverly Hills 'farmers' are spinning the story as they have been for the 50+ years. Instead of building "canals" or "underground tunnels" or shove an $11 billion bond in our faces, how about solving the real problem by not irrigating desert whether it be for homes or farms, and by retiring the 400K acres that were recommended in the first place because Westlands et. al. is not willing to pay what is necessary to clean and treat all the selenium tainted wastewater.
I live down here in SoCal, and see the tracts being built on farm land down here, with no new water sources. I don't know how they do it, unless the water rights from the farms are transfered to the developers.
I think this recession had put the brakes on wholesale development, at least for now.
And $11.6 billion for two tunnels?
$11.6 billion buys a lot of surface level piping, which is easier to monitor and maintain, and faster to install. Why do you think the oil companies do it whenever they can?
Between right of ways for interstate highways, and utlility lines, the pathways for piping is already owned and available.
I think huge taxpayer indebtedness is much uglier than exposed water pipes.
I think we should hire the oil companies to design and build pipelines for water transfer. They already know how to do it.
I don't think tunnels in earthquake country are a very sound way to "secure" our water supply.
"It's very simple to me: Bring the situation out into the open and call a 'spade a spade'. Politicians and the Beverly Hills 'farmers' are spinning the story as they have been for the 50+ years. Instead of building "canals" or "underground tunnels" or shove an $11 billion bond in our faces, how about solving the real problem by not irrigating desert whether it be for homes or farms, and by retiring the 400K acres that were recommended in the first place because Westlands et. al. is not willing to pay what is necessary to clean and treat all the selenium tainted wastewater.
I live down here in SoCal, and see the tracts being built on farm land down here, with no new water sources. I don't know how they do it, unless the water rights from the farms are transfered to the developers.
I think this recession had put the brakes on wholesale development, at least for now.
And $11.6 billion for two tunnels?
$11.6 billion buys a lot of surface level piping, which is easier to monitor and maintain, and faster to install. Why do you think the oil companies do it whenever they can?
Between right of ways for interstate highways, and utlility lines, the pathways for piping is already owned and available.
I think huge taxpayer indebtedness is much uglier than exposed water pipes.
I think we should hire the oil companies to design and build pipelines for water transfer. They already know how to do it.
I don't think tunnels in earthquake country are a very sound way to "secure" our water supply.
Attitude plus effort equal success
CLEAN AND DRY
CLEAN AND DRY
Re: Thank god the pumps are on for west side farmers
Whether by canal, tunnel or overland pipeline, in the end it's all infrastructure built to export more water for greedy corporate ag interests, and at the taxpayers' expense (as well as at the expense of the Delta's health). Maybe the tunnels make it more palatable in an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of way...mark poulson wrote:And $11.6 billion for two tunnels?
$11.6 billion buys a lot of surface level piping, which is easier to monitor and maintain, and faster to install. Why do you think the oil companies do it whenever they can?
Between right of ways for interstate highways, and utlility lines, the pathways for piping is already owned and available.
I think huge taxpayer indebtedness is much uglier than exposed water pipes.
I think we should hire the oil companies to design and build pipelines for water transfer. They already know how to do it.
I don't think tunnels in earthquake country are a very sound way to "secure" our water supply.
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