TM battery set ups

[BShafer]

I'm looking for information on 36v TM battery set ups. For those that are running 36v systems what size batteries are using. set up
Grp 24
Grp 27
Grp 29
Grp 31

I'm looking at it from a weight issue for the boat set up. I run a 20 ft with a 225. T he other question is if you run the smaller batteries do you also run a charger off the big motor to keep them topped off while your running?

[Jim Moulton]

I'll Bite on this one!
It depends on the way you fish and the waters you fish. If you fish the Delta and your in the weeds all day working the heck out of your trolling motor then the larger the batteries the better. If you fish mostly motherlode lakes then you would not need to run group 29 or 31 batteries group 27's would be just fine for that application.
There are several questions to ask before you make your choice. How much do you use your trolling motor through out the day? At what speed? Do you run through alot of weeds? Do you fish into the wind most of the time or with the wind? How heavy of a load do you run with?
With a 20 foot boat I would not go any smaller than a 27. AGM battieries are a nice option but they are not cheap.
Hope this helps Jim

[Leon Pugh]

Jim pretty much said it all. Think of batteries as gas tanks for electricity, just like you need to determine how big your gas tanks need to be, you need to determine how many reserve minutes you need in you batteries. You can get more reserve minutes per lb of weight with lead acid batteries however AGM batteries will last at least twice as long and you do not need to worry about keeping the water added. The biggest advantage of AGM batteries is as they age their reserve capacity does not fall off very fast, a two year old agm will still have almost 100 % of its reserve, a lead acid will have dropped at least 15% of its capacity.

Some will disagree with what I am going to say now. But consider I have over forty years of experience dealing with electrical systems and I have the best sources for current technology.

Set up three optima grp 31's in series for 36 volts. If your trolling motor is a 24/36, run it on 36. Use the final battery for the 36 volt system as your cranking battery. You will run the gas motor enough though out the day to keep that battery fully charged. Many think you need a dedicated cranking battery, not so for 99% of the anglers. This way you will only need three batteries total which will reduce your overall weight and cost. Be sure to use 31's though.

I have all ways set up my boats this way as well as my partners. I test my batteries after every trip out and I have never had the cranking battery drop to less than 95% state of charge. I do fish the delta a lot moving the boat against the current and I usually fish into the wind. I also run a 3.0 mercury which demands a lot of battery.

Again many will tell you this won't work, but the proofs in the pudding, The only way it could be a problem is if you made a run to a spot and fished all day running your trolling motor at about fifty percent continuous for six hours or more without making any runs on the big motor. If you think about it that situation would be very unlikely.

Take a look at this article:
http://www.westernbass.com/dotcom/libra ... ml?id=3282

[Jim PAyne]

I agree with you using the start battery as your third trolling battery and being OK as long as you run the outboard during the day. As far as your saying 98% of all anglers can do this would be a really high number that I would not come close to agreeing with. Using 31's are alot heavier and cost to high so the bottom line would really depend on each angler and how they fish. And I couldn't agree with you more that the proof is in the pudding. And yes you can charge them from the 225 on the water while you run around from spot to spot and that will only work if you run during the day. I guess I would like to know how you run during your day on the water.

[scottsweet]

I take question to Leon's suggestion of running the third battery as your cranking battery.

The electronics and your livewells run on your cranking battery. If you are a tournament fisherman and this equipment is running all day, I would say this is a VERY poor choice as you are draining your cranking battery on these electronics and livewells.

Unless you are making long runs where there is the opportunity for the cranking battery to recover, then all you are doing is putting a heavy load on one of the three batteries for your trolling motor. Further, you are creating a big imbalance in your trolling motor batteries such that the other two are going to have to make up for the weaker third battery. They will run hotter and will shorten the life of the batteries.

As already said, this is based so much on how you fish and where you fish. If you are just a weekend angler who is just going fishing, then sure, this idea will work fine. If you are a tournament angler where weak batteries can cost you money, than using only three batteries is a very poor choice. If your livewells are running much of the day with 2 graphs, you will pull quite a bit of current from your cranking battery and thus directly affect the performance of the trolling motor.

I know many people run Optima's, but I have to say the cost for the reserve capacity and amps you get from those batteries is terrible. The capacities in comparison to other AGM batteries for the same money make it a no brainer for choosing another battery. I personally have ran Optima's and had VERY bad experiences with them.

Finally, I have personally known anglers who have fished water like Lake Mead where they have complained that their trolling motor batteries were dead at the end of the day and it cost them. Can you imagine if that very same scenario occurred with your cranking battery and then you couldn't get back for the weigh-in? Following Leon's recommendations would create that risk and it makes no sense.

[Leon Pugh]

Scott I don't think you read the post and article completely.

[kopper_bass]

Leon,
I appreciate your experience and knowledge, but i question whether you are speaking as a full time tournament guy, or a weekend fun fisherman. no dis-respect, just asking, because both are great to be, but each have completely different requirements on a boat when it comes to power.

i can see that a weekend guy who keeps no fish in his boat and runs around a lot looking for bites, vs. keying in on certain fish; could get away with only 3 batteries. they are using the least amount of power required and chargining frequently.

i fish tournaments. i have a MK101 and use 3 series 29s + 1 cranking battery. I fish real slow; I mean real slow. i am not a power fisherman, so i fish an area thouroughly and can go hours on the TM before i ever crank over the engine. with both aerators working, fish finders going, trolling around a large point with the engine off for 2 hrs; there is no way i want that 3rd battery on the TM to also be my cranking battery. i will never get it turned over with these bigger motors.

I say that if you got a 20ft boat being pushed by a 225HP engine, you need to set it up with 4 batteries and be ready for a good day of fishing.

Kopper

[Leon Pugh]

A 101 thrust motor will run at max speed continuous for about 4.6 hours with 155 min of reserve capacity. At 25% load it will go for 18.4 hours, at 12% your are talking over 30 hours. Very few people will run a 101 for 8 hours at 25%. Two HDS and livewells will add about 8amps load and should be considered. You have to do what you are comfortable with. Full time fishing or part time tournament fishing has nothing to do with power requirements. As I brought up earlier you do have to evaluate your personal operating conditions and adjust. Based on the logic of many we should have 100 gallons of fuel onboard, just in case! On some days no one use more battery than I do and as I mentioned I have never pulled the cranking battery below 95%. I would rather have the weight reduction. Battery cost is not a factor to me I don't pay for them so I could be running four if I thought it was needed. I do not need four batteries as time and testing has proven. I do test my batteries after each trip out and I think every serious angler should do this. Believe me I would rather have to much than not enough. A team partner of mine use the same system only with 27's and has has no problems. It is easy enough to find out for yourself just keep the extra battery in the boat while you try the three battery system. Check the state of charge after each trip to evaluate how it works for you. If you are pulling the cranker down to 75% or lower you would need a fourth battery. Keep in mind Napa would rather I pushed four batteries! And another thing use deep cycles for the cranking motor as well. I am just letting you guys some ways to reduce weight and cost.

[kopper_bass]

Leon,
Great points and great idea to test it for myself. i know i have had issues before where i have killed my cranking battery or wore the TM batteries out during a full day out there. But like most guys i never really analyze the effects and just chalk it up to a hard day on the water.

You mention that you check the state of charge after each trip. give us some advice on how we should do this. i know it requires more than just putting a meter on it.

sounds like an interesting experiment to try in order to really understand what the electronics are doing.

Thanks,

Kopper

[Leon Pugh]

Check out this artical I put together, there is a chart there that list the voltages for various states of charge.
http://www.westernbass.com/dotcom/libra ... ml?id=3282

I like to give users options so they can fit items to their budgets.

Solar BA7 about $75.00
Has built in digital volt meter, Will test all 12 volt batteries for both state of charge and condition. Keep the owners manuel handy it is not real user friendly but for the price you can't go wrong.

Solar BA 327 about $375.00
A great tester. Is very user friendly
Both of these units will test alternators as well

State of charge can be tested with any digital voltmeter, they just will not tell you anything about the health of the battery. See the link above for State of charge charts.

If you buy and use one of these testers you will never be surprised with a battery problem again.


Do the testing at the end of the day. If a battery has a surface charge which is a reading higher than a fully charged battery it will not give you accurate results. At the end of the day you will not have a surface charge because of the use during the day. If you have just charged the batteries or have been running the big motor you will have a surface charge. Remove it by running the electronics and pumps or trolling motor for a few minutes before testing. You will also discover that some batteries will test lower than there advertised ratings and some like Optima's and oddessy will test higher than their specs.

[BShafer]

I wantr to say thanks for the replies. There are some strong points from them and gave me some ideas to consider.

I should have gave a little more info then I did and I appoligize for the lack of info. But here it is, I tournament fish and fun fish speed alot of time on the Delta and beleave that the bass are in the grass and like to be close to current but I also enjoy fishing the Motherlode Lakes deep structure.

Again thanks as I move to 36vTM I'm wanting to consider all my options