Lets be clear on this....

WON BASSIN · Post by **WON BASSIN** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:06 am

WON BASS is currently reviewing all of our rules, and regulations. It has been said time and time again......"If WON will not let solo anglers in a team tourney fish by them selves, then I am not fishing WON".

This statement, could not be further from the truth. WON BASS is always looking to improve our position in the market place, which is tournament bass fishing. Yes the US Open incident, made a lot of us re-think about our rules and how we apply them. As it stands, if there is a rule that can not be policed, then it will not stand as a rule. WON will not be implementing any "Off Limits" on the team regions for 2011, as it is impossible to police or govern that, as far as from a organizational stand point. Rules are only good if they can be applied and policed, otherwise they are useless.

As for the "NO SOLO" rule that had been mentioned in the past by Harvey Naslund our Director. There is some miss conceptions and flat out ambiguous rumors being thrown around regarding that statement.
It is true that WON will not blindly turn our heads to the issue of solo angling. As it has obviously become an issue in the teams trails. Won's official rule will state, that in the instance that if an angler from one of the teams, is unable to attend in a TEAMS tournament, that the angler who can, will be responsible for contacting his regional director, to notify him within 24 hours, regarding the team partner that can not attend. At that time, the WON director will work within his territory to find an observer, that can fish with that team member in the absence of his original partner. The observer would not qualify for any points, their fish would count towards the team weight. WON Bass will work within it's angling community to find such observers that will be available if needed for these occurrences, or the team angler can find his own replacement. These individuals will hopefully be people who have always wanted to fish in tournaments, but have lacked the nerve or confidence to do so, with the intention of recruiting new tournament anglers. If for some reason, an observer or individual is not available, or can not be found in time for the event, then and only then can a team fish solo. But, if said team does so choose to fish solo, that team would be assessed a ONE pound penalty. Thus, it is not our intention to not allow solo teams, it is just our way of making sure that there is some effort on the anglers part to not fish SOLO. A team event is just that, a team event. Otherwise step up to the Pro/Am level and fish without worrying about what your team partners schedule might be.

WON Bass will be releasing our regional team dates in our next WON Bass supplement due out October 8th. As always we appreciate your loyal support, and look forward to a great year end, and even better 2011.

For more information and tournament standings regarding WON Bass, please log onto www.wonbass.com.

DL · Post by DL » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:41 am

The observer would not qualify for any points, their fish would count towards the team weight, and if there was any earnings from that day, they would agree prior to the events start as to what their arrangements would be. WON Bass will work within it's angling community to find such observers that will be available if needed for these occurrences. These individuals will hopefully be people who have always wanted to fish in tournaments, but have lacked the nerve or confidence to do so, with the intention of recruiting new tournament anglers. If for some reason, an observer or individual is not available, or can not be found in time for the event, then and only then can a team fish solo. But, if said team does so choose to fish solo, that team would be assessed a ONE pound penalty. Thus, it is not our intention to not allow solo teams, it is just our way of making sure that there is some effort on the anglers part to not fish SOLO

While WON's intentions are noble, I don't think the angling public is going to embrace your new program and you may have opened yourself up to another round of criticism and ridicule. Until your new rules are put to print and on your website, I won't draw any conclusions or judgments. But don't miss the forest for the "tree"...

DeltaBound · Post by **DeltaBound** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:46 am

I like the idea of an observer, however the observer should be there to watch and that's it, no fishing. The team is responsible for funding the tournaments they wish to enter and all monies and or awards are split among the team partners.

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:14 pm

I think this is a bad idea that has come about because of a few losers that decided to cheat.
I think the observer thing is lame ...why should someone get to see baits and techniques of other teams... That can and will cause problems because inevitably the observer will tell other people what the guy in the front of the boat was doing.. and thats wrong... ASK Kyle Grover how much he likes observers....His observer at a tournament this year blabbed his mouth to his friends and started using Kyles techniques and spots against him at later tournaments...WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!
And IF there has to be an "observer"....by NO MEANS should the observer be allowed to fish... PERIOD.
Most all teams still split expenses and winnings even if the other person has to miss the event..
If WON wants to start bringing in new blood as Bill Stated... ( " These individuals will hopefully be people who have always wanted to fish in tournaments, but have lacked the nerve or confidence to do so, with the intention of recruiting new tournament anglers.") Then WON needs to start an "everyday joe" tournament series much like TopStick Joes...

I personally much rather take the 1 pound penalty then have someone i dont know in my boat that Im responsible for, or to have someone in my boat taking notes of baits and spots...or simply losing fish that he shouldnt be losing that can affect the outcome...

thats my 2 pennies

Pete

WON BASSIN · Post by **WON BASSIN** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:36 pm

Good constructive criticism guys. That's what this is all about. Voice your opinions and they will be heard. As for the role of the observer, such as at the US Open, in the event that a AAA angler is not available to go out on the second or third day, the observers are allowed to fish and they are not in the points or money race. Thus we thought it would be best to do the same here at the Teams level. I deleted the part about sharing in the money, as that would be completely up to the Team leader. The point is, and Pete you should understand this really well, as you yourself are a guide, and are on the water with people everyday, showing them your baits and techniques is part of your job. There are no real secrets out there, it's all about making the right choices and putting your time in.

Progress is the key!

S. Bailey · Post by **S. Bailey** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:36 pm

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:53 pm

Bill... i guess we can agree to disagree on this one...

But u have it wrong if you are trying to compare a guide client to a tournment angler....no comparrison..sorry but there is a HUGE difference.

I understand the observer at the Open where all of the other Pros have the luxury of having a AAA in the boat...but NOT at a team tournament... sorry.
Again...all this because Some idiot decided it would be right to jam lead into the bellies of his fish in an attempt to steal from everyone. Cheaters will always get caught eventually...I just dont think there is a need to make drastic changes to rules that have worked well most of the time for years...

As far as the NO OFFLIMITS Rule... I applaud WON for sticking to tyour guns on that one... Off limits is lame for team events...

Pete

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:10 pm

Easy fix to all this, get a team partner that is committed to fishing the whole season. Orgs need to do their part by not changing schedules or find another lake to fish on that date if conditions change. Teams need to have a schedule that is not changed to cause attendance problems.

Look at the team stats. Solo guys jackpotting events is a problem. WONBass is on the right track by trying to stop it. The observer thing? Not sure. Maybe a guy can decide whether he would rather forgo the observer and just get show-up points for working?

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:40 pm

My guess is this would not be as big a deal if there were NOT as many Org's out there. Sometimes teams want to qualify for multiple TOC's and there are conflicts where 1 partner is at 1 lake and the other at another lake. Pete is 100% correct. Rick G.

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:13 pm

GREAT NEWS on cleaning up the rules. Many are out dated and should go away like the 8' rod rule. That should of been gone forever ago. A few more ought to be ousted as well. Glad you are going to look at this.

Make it a 7 fish limit and make it a TEAM event again. If they solo fish, they weigh 5 only. A few guys think that F&G says 5, not true. CBC will run a 7 fish limit this year.

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:39 pm

Boo, boo. Throw tomatoes and beer bottles.....

I don't like the rule either. My wife is my partner and sometimes it is last minute bitchfest so I go alone. And since we work one circuit somtimes I fish the last hour or so by myself when she has to be in early. Sorry Bill but the rule bites, in my opinion of course. The cheating thing should not even be why you are implementing this change, as we know single or double scum bags will cheat. Now for safety reasons I can see that.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:59 pm

Gary Dobyns wrote:A few guys think that F&G says 5, not true. CBC will run a 7 fish limit this year.

You're talking about the CBC Teams, correct?

Ray Coleman · Post by **Ray Coleman** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:20 pm

It feels like since a guy got caught cheating in the US Open, then guys fishing alone in team tournys must be cheating. I personally am insulted at your inference. The reason my team mate or myself would fish alone would be work, or a family concern that comes up at the last minute. We have fished WON teams since 2001 and Im not sure we can continue. Even calling TD 24 hrs before for an observer isn't good. Personally, I think you are shooting the dog because the cat pee'd on the carpet.

Ray Coleman

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:25 pm

[quote="bryanmc"][quote="Gary Dobyns"]A few guys think that F&G says 5, not true. CBC will run a 7 fish limit this year.[/quote]

You're talking about the CBC Teams, correct?[/quote]

Yes, correct.

eric n · Post by **eric n** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:45 pm

I have work commitments that make it impossible for me to schedule a partner,yet i enjoy tournies so i fish solo occasionaly.Will not be with won i guess.

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:29 pm

I knew I wouldnt be alone about this topic..
In a sense, we are all being called potential cheaters just because someone cheated at the open... Kinda insulting indeed to those of us who have been loyal supporters for many years...

What about the guys who have to leave early from tournaments? Or Show up later?

WON you may be jumping to conclusions here and over reacting to the thugs out there.. I dont blame you...but listen to your supporters....loose the rule... You claim to want input...Are you listening?

I dont want to hear that teams need to plan to fish every event by guys who dont even commit to fishing team series... The fact is family and work come first and if we need to be there for either one, our teams shouldnt suffer because of it more than they already will be by having to fish alone..

Pete

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:41 pm

Well Bill,
At least you're trying.
Strangely enough I thought of this a bunch and I don't know that there is a really good fix.
Personally I like the 7 fish idea the best as an incentive for two people.
I wonder if there would be enough interest to form a solo division. (Interesting thought).
CBC is one way but not many events and no payout till the finals.
Federation is an option but an angler has to share their boat similar to a Pro/Am but not with combined weight.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:53 pm

TEAMDEADMONEY wrote:I knew I wouldn't be alone about this topic..
In a sense, we are all being called potential cheaters just because someone cheated at the open... Kinda insulting indeed to those of us who have been loyal supporters for many years...

This is an exact quote of what Bill told me in an email:

"This rule was not set up due to any cheating issues, rather because of the nature of what TEAM Fishing means."

Ken Sauret · Post by **Ken Sauret** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:11 pm

The intent of a Team Tournament Circuit is for a team of two people to fish each event. Guys who want to sign up and never have a team partner should go to the Pro/Am events, not Team events, one person is not a Team.

As for the Teams who fish multiple circuits and they split to fish two tournaments on the same day so as to qualify for two different championships, I like the 7 fish limit proposed by Mr. Dobyns. This way it is a known penalty to split up and fish two events on the same day. It would also be a great incentive for both members of a Team to do everything they can to attend all the events together.

The off limits idea interferes with too many guys that work weekends or have other circumstances in life that come up that keep them off the water the weekend before. Guys want and need to practice for each tournament coming up and some need to fish during the week to be prepared to compete. This has worked in the past without too much complaining. To change this might lower the number of teams entering tournaments instead of raising numbers. Which is the only reason I can think of to implement such a rule.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:32 pm

What about a throwout like ABA. Have a couple per region and if your partner cant fish, you take the best 5 or 6 for the AOY. Nobody should ever be allowed to fish an entire region by himself, thats for sure, but a couple is no big deal. Why dont we just penalize ourselfs right out of business? Rick G.

Caudawg · Post by **Caudawg** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:55 pm

I like the 7 fish limit idea. It's a good one. IMHO

CN · Post by CN » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:56 pm

TEAMDEADMONEY wrote:I think this is a bad idea that has come about because of a few losers that decided to cheat.
I think the observer thing is lame ...why should someone get to see baits and techniques of other teams... That can and will cause problems because inevitably the observer will tell other people what the guy in the front of the boat was doing.. and thats wrong... ASK Kyle Grover how much he likes observers....His observer at a tournament this year blabbed his mouth to his friends and started using Kyles techniques and spots against him at later tournaments...WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!
And IF there has to be an "observer"....by NO MEANS should the observer be allowed to fish... PERIOD.
Most all teams still split expenses and winnings even if the other person has to miss the event..
If WON wants to start bringing in new blood as Bill Stated... ( " These individuals will hopefully be people who have always wanted to fish in tournaments, but have lacked the nerve or confidence to do so, with the intention of recruiting new tournament anglers.") Then WON needs to start an "everyday joe" tournament series much like TopStick Joes...

I personally much rather take the 1 pound penalty then have someone i dont know in my boat that Im responsible for, or to have someone in my boat taking notes of baits and spots...or simply losing fish that he shouldnt be losing that can affect the outcome...

thats my 2 pennies

Pete

And you guy's want more people to show up. With an attitude like that I think I will pass.

Mike Nance

eric n · Post by **eric n** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:01 pm

''Why dont we penalize ourselves right out of bussiness'' is exactly right.If you cant find an observer,a 1 lb penalty?Thats absurd.
Isnt this about having fun?Everyone worried about cheating,whos doing what,he said blah,blah,blah.Seriously,nobody is making a living doing this,lighten up.You are taking the fun out of it.
However,a 7 fish limit would be cool and i would come out for that regardless of what i said earlier!

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:02 pm

Just to be clear.... My opinion is for a two person team NOT a 1 person team..

Pete

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:08 pm

CN?? What do you mean by..." With an attitude like that I think I will pass. "?????

How am I having a bad attitude... ?

You simply just dont get it...

Rick.. I agree, NOBODY should be able to fish an entire circuit by himself....that being said...WHY NOT?? If someone is gonna cheat then we have recently learned that it can and has been done without the other person in the boat knowing it happened...
Food for thought...

Pete

Ceaser · Post by **Ceaser** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:24 pm

I dont understand why someone cant fish solo in a team event. I would think it would be a disadvantage. No net man, no extra rod in the back of the boat, only one set of ears and eyes on the boat. It makes no sense why people would be opposed to such a thing. Pro/ams are for this but there are not pro ams all the time. If im on a bite two day before a tourney and want to enter, pay the entire entry fee, and win all the money then whats so threating about that. With my schedule a partner is not always availible and maybe I dont want a hack poking off my kicker with the net or making errant casts spooking fish. Easy way to solve the non-solo thing is a 7 fish limit! 100% was a great trail and they had a 7 fish limit and 100 boat draws on the delta. A team complaining about having an advantage makes no sense at all. And the cheating thing... well seems to me if a guy wants to cheat he'll do it with a AM in the boat.. he doesnt have to be alone... he can do it with his partner and a 50 gallon drum bolted to a dock!

ACP · Post by **ACP** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:51 pm

What so hard to understand what a "Team" is? Limit the solo fishing!

7 fish limit

You can fish solo only once per schedule to qualify for the T.O.C.

619 · Post by **619** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:55 pm

Has anyone asked Ray Scott about this?

Jeff C. · Post by **Jeff C.** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:04 pm

Andrew Jackson wrote: I don't like the rule either. My wife is my partner and sometimes it is last minute bitchfest so I go alone.

LOL! Best post all week.

TXRIGGED · Post by **TXRIGGED** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:33 pm

I like the 7 (or even 10) fish rule for consideration.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:25 am

eric n wrote: Isnt this about having fun?Everyone worried about cheating,whos doing what,he said blah,blah,blah.!

Why don't they lower the entry and take away the cheese? Everybody fishing for plaques since you are doing this for fun?

Didn't think so.

davet. · Post by **davet.** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:53 am

The best idea yet is the 7 fish limit. Losing 2 fish for being solo is way more of an incentive than a 1 pound penalty.
you can bet your a$$ that a solo fisher would try to recruit his grandma to fill that extra 2 fish.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:07 am

Gary Dobyns wrote:Make it a 7 fish limit and make it a TEAM event again. If they solo fish, they weigh 5 only. A few guys think that F&G says 5, not true. CBC will run a 7 fish limit this year.

There are those here, myself included, that have strongly been against the changes from 7 fish to 5 fish way back in the late 90's when the changes were made to team events. It was amazing how all the circuits got this lil bug up their butts it needed to be done and made that change, specifically using the excuse, it would allow the team who's partner couldn't make it, be able to still compete. Yet it left the door WIDE open for the problem of guys fishing alone thru an entire series, and the high potential for cheating. It was also stated that anglers who struggled to git a 7 fish limit, would now be more comfortable in their ability to compete and the numbers in events would grow. Quite frankly, since that change, team circuit participation has declined in numbers. Is that the sole reason, no, there are other factors, yet I don't believe it is just coincidental.

I couldn't agree more on any single team tournament rule change!

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:12 am

Can somebody explain this to me? In today's environment, where most team circuits are having trouble drawing a decent field, why would you do anything to limit the amount of people fishing. Why, if someone wants to step up and pay the whole entry fee, should they be penalized in any way. I would think that guys who consider fishing a team event alone are already handicapped by having to do it all themselves. Of course, if you don't want that entry fee in the pot for you and your partner to fish for, find a way to keep them out.

Billy said this had nothing to do with cheating, but I can't see any other reason for the action. The word team to me means you can have 2 fisherman in the boat, not that you have to. Some guys may prefer to fish alone, and a pro-am isn't the answer either, since there's a AAA in the back.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:43 am

bryanmc wrote:Can somebody explain this to me? In today's environment, where most team circuits are having trouble drawing a decent field, why would you do anything to limit the amount of people fishing. Why, if someone wants to step up and pay the whole entry fee, should they be penalized in any way. I would think that guys who consider fishing a team event alone are already handicapped by having to do it all themselves. Of course, if you don't want that entry fee in the pot for you and your partner to fish for, find a way to keep them out.

Billy said this had nothing to do with cheating, but I can't see any other reason for the action. The word team to me means you can have 2 fisherman in the boat, not that you have to. Some guys may prefer to fish alone, and a pro-am isn't the answer either, since there's a AAA in the back.

Here is a guy that gets it! All this drama is about 1 guy in So.Cal who dominated AT TIMES, fishing alone. And because he was just better than the rest, he must be suspect. If the local director is so worried, let him launch his boat and follow the guy all day and watch him yourself. Want more teams for your trail? Have good payback, be organized and treat your customers well. Have a good schedule, stick to it, and enforce the rules you do have. Seemspretty simple to me. Rick G.

drew · Post by **drew** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:49 am

Is there really a problem with one person fishing a team tournament? Is this a chronic problem or are you trying to appease a few complainers? Does this happen often?

I say if its a team tournament then there should be two people fishing. I have to admit it is hard to sacrifice a whole year/series cause you miss an event because your team partner is very sick or has a legitimate reason for not being able to fish.

So whats the solution? Miss the tournament and lose all of your investment. Have an observer that does not fish. Allow a team to be represented by one member once per year. There has to be something that will work without going to the extreme.

Rbass519 · Post by **Rbass519** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:04 am

There are a lot of veteran fishermen giving you their opinion here. I hope it's not falling on deaf ears. For what it's worth, here's mine.
I have fished WON Bass; ABA; 100% Bass; Angler's choice; and NBW. Most of them have the same rules with a few differences i.e. the encrochment distance, fish and game "legal" limit v.s. "tournament" limit in the live well. My favorite rule though, went away with 100% Bass. It was the 7 fish limit rule.
That rule is WHY my partner and I chose that circuit. We felt like we had a better chance to catch 7 decent fish, than 4 ok fish and a kicker. It takes quite a while to learn how to catch that kicker on most lakes I have fished regularly.
A 7 fish limit made us think we had a chance against the teams that could catch a big one and 4 ok ones. I guess the bottom line was, we thought it was a good place to learn to fish tournaments.

Rob Bass

Jeff C. · Post by **Jeff C.** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:10 am

It sounds like a lot of you are saying that a solo angler is more likely to cheat than a team. Why would that be the case?

Rbass519 · Post by **Rbass519** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:28 am

Maybe it's because there's only one conscience in the boat? I worry more about catchin' bass than catchin' cheaters. Catchin' bass is MY job, catchin' cheaters is the T.D.'s job.

B Becker · Post by **B Becker** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:35 am

I fish with my pops, who has a lot of physical disabilities. I never got into team tourneys to "make money". On several occassions my pops couldn't make a tourney because he couldn't move in the morning. I like the 7 fish limit, but that would totally be a waste for us. I "should" quit fishing tourneys with pops because it would be a waste of both our money, we should just go fun fishing! My dad would miss the guys. I won't stop becuase its my dad, but I would be at a more disadvantage if penalties were assessed on the days he missed.

When I want to fish competitively, I get in the pro/ams. Guys that fish team tourneys to "make money" scare me!!! I heard a guy tell me I have to fish alone so I can make money! Red flag!!! but that is just one bad apple, but they are out there. More rules will equal less fisherman (just my .02) I don't think anyone is going to make everyone happy, so I will just shut up and fish, because that is what makes me happy!

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:42 am

I like the 7 fish idea. I dont agree with the one pound penalty at all, stuff comes up in life and sometimes people have bigger things going on than a team tournament, doesnt mean the partner should be punished. Now a guy wanting to fish solo ALL year is a different story. ONE GUY screwed this whole thing up and now we ALL are being punished for it. There isnt really an easy solution to any of this mess, atleast they are trying to make things better rather than ignore it.

swank · Post by **swank** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:53 am

I've seen many "teams" start to fish tournaments alone-finding a team partner isn't easy when starting out. And it seems every team at some point during the season fishes alone. Why does it matter if it's not for cheating(assuming the partners wouldn't be in on it) and not a safety issue. i would address a problem that the anglers are bringing up-i've never heard this even talked about. Maybe when someone wins at an unbelievable percentage be proactive and do something-follow them or test them. Imagine if the fish wouldn't have been cut open that day.

Noluk · Post by **Noluk** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:03 am

I never fished the 7 fish limit tournaments here but I do have to come down on the side of NOT going to a 7 fish limit. It is NOT in the best interests of the long term health of our fisheries. Delayed mortality is real. It would increase fish being removed during the spawn, subject fish to additional stress in the livewells, potentialy increase the amount of time it takes to weigh fish in, and will result in some additional fish death based on the above factors through immediate and delayed fish mortality.

I encourage a circuit to develop a format that they believe will attract fisherman, protects the integrity of the circuit and does everything it can to protect the resource. If WON passed a rule against solo fishing and places it out there for all to judge then we, the fisherman, can make a decision with our dollars if we want to be a part of it or not. I think thought and market testing is a big part of figuring out how to make a circuit grow.

What I do not get is why there is not a large AM/semi-pro/low cost circuit down here in SoCal(we do have the Joes circuit). They have proven to be extremely popular circuits in NorCal with growing numbers of participants. I am not sure what the magic formula is any more than the rest of you but I can certainly attest to how hard it can be to make a buck running a circuit. It is a labor of love and everyone who fishes a circuit with a great tournament director should thank them regularly.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:09 am

some guy wrote:I like the 7 fish idea. I dont agree with the one pound penalty at all, stuff comes up in life and sometimes people have bigger things going on than a team tournament, doesnt mean the partner should be punished.

But going to a 7 fish limit, does "punish" the partner fishing alone. Would you throw your money in if you cold only weigh 5 and everybody else could weigh seven?

Instead of trying to find all these ways to handicap folks that want or need to fish alone, why not step up to the plate and say "No fishing alone, period." See what that does for your participation

Sometimes it's best to not try to fix something that isn't broken.

Otay Michael · Post by **Otay Michael** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:21 am

Rbass519 wrote:Maybe it's because there's only one conscience in the boat? I worry more about catchin' bass than catchin' cheaters. Catchin' bass is MY job, catchin' cheaters is the T.D.'s job.

The conscience thing hits the nail on the head, probably hard to get two guys to chance their lifes reputation on the glory rec'd, and the monies won, huh?

But thinking it's only the TD's job? That part I don't think would be shared with most of these folks, it's their money and glory that got stolen! And besides, how would you follow two or more guys fishing solo?

Why do folks fight this instead of helping to figure it out? I imagine it's tough to catch cheaters, mankind is so inventive- in this case doing it almost in front of an unsespecting partner, but imagine how tough it made it for that guy?

A friend told me, yesterday while fishing El Cap, how his buddy in jail told him how inventive the inmates are at smuggling drugs in, like putting herioin betweeen two photos sealed together making it look like a single photo! Where there is a will there is a way, and to think that only 1 in a million is a cheat is really naive.

Folks fighting the idea to stop cheaters, or the making of it to be a lot harder, would make me a bit nervous. I see most are for tightening of the system. Sounds like the throwing out of one, or two of the results, would even things out, so lack of partner would not be such a handicap, but then again, a 7 fish tourney would help in the fisherman digging up a partner.

I for one have volunteered to be a backup at these events to go out with a solo. I'd like to learn more but don't have the funds. All monies won would be kept by them in my book. If some would not be for it, so be it, but some would be ok with it I'm sure. Let the individual fishermen be able to choose his poision.

eric n · Post by **eric n** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:25 am

Robert F wrote:
eric n wrote: Isnt this about having fun?Everyone worried about cheating,whos doing what,he said blah,blah,blah.!
Why don't they lower the entry and take away the cheese? Everybody fishing for plaques since you are doing this for fun? Didn't think so.

I fished won before brian was a director,aba,100%,and anglers choice when dv was saturated with derbies.I fished a 10 boat field.Trust me Robert,there is no money after gas,lunch ,and florocarbon.Its all about fishing with/against some great friends i have made out there.
I fished won because Brian was director and nbw because thats where the talent and bigger fields are,personaly i like to fish against the best.
Thats a good arguement against 7 fish George,didnt think of the mortality rate.When Tom Phleager(sp)started the Scripps grow out pens for white seabass,fizzing was a big issue.The mortality rate was off the charts,however,it wasnt from the decompression it was from the infection that resulted from dirty needles being used over again.He gave us deflating needles and stressed the need to clean it with alchohol prior to using them.Maybe the people from sure-life could confirm that?Maybe that would help with bass?Its still hard for me to believe there is no physiological damage to the fish seeing there eyes full of air.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:43 am

eric n wrote:Trust me Robert,there is no money after gas,lunch ,and florocarbon.Its all about fishing with/against some great friends i have made out there.

Then maybe dropping the entries would be more palatable. I do know guys that count on "Team" season to fund up their "Pro" entry bank account.

Unless your only goal is to win AOY I do not see the problem with taking a hit on one event. Most TOC fields will have enough spots to allow you a missed event during the season.

The post above banging WONBass for "being a complainer" is classic.

Some of you guys on the "every-body's opinion is negative but mine" juice just crack me up.

S. Bailey · Post by **S. Bailey** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:54 am

7 fish limit sounds awesome...10 fish is even better, but people who cant catch em will still complain... lower the entree fee's and fish for plaques is a great one too since nobody does this for a living ... actually maybe we should all get paid in " trident layers gum " since its all " just for fun "...
Billy has his work cut out for him trying to please everyone. Good luck bro !

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:58 am

Robert F wrote: Unless your only goal is to win AOY I do not see the problem with taking a hit on one event.

Why take the hit at all, just stay home or go fun fishing. It's only a boat or 2 less in the field, and hey, team tournaments are so full now you can barely find a place big enough for all the boats.

Unless by "taking a hit" you meant not fishing, in which case we agree. On the other point, wasn't there a thread a while back about too many boats making the TOC's? So if you did miss a tournament because your partner couldn't make it, and they remedied that TOC problem, you might no be invited.

Again, why try to fix something that isn't broken?

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:01 am

S. Bailey wrote: Billy has his work cut out for him trying to please everyone. Good luck bro !

Shaun... Were there a lot of problems before they addressed this? Were there a bunch of folks not fishing because some guys fished alone occasionally or the limit was only 5?

I'm not ripping on you, serious question.

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