ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

ruger123
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ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by ruger123 »

JUST FISHED THE MOTHER LODE ANGLERS CHOICE FIRST TOURNAMENT AT DON PEDRO. I WAS WONDERING WHAT IS GOING ON ,IS THIS CIRCUIT DONE. I CANT BELEIVE THAT ONLY 11 BOATS SHOWED UP. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT WHY SUCH A LOW TURN OUT.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by S. Bailey »

I think its a new trend ...
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sTony
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by sTony »

The trend I'm noticing is that the new tournament seasons are starting almost immediately after the season ending TOC's are done. Maybe November is just too soon to start up this stuff. I've been saying for years that it's too soon but now with this economy it's a disaster to start so early and it's going to kill the seasons for those circuits that get off to such a bad start.

Hopefully Orgs are paying serious attention to what's happening right now. The signs are pretty clear, guys want to take some time off. Especially with holidays and family demands on the rise this time of year.

This Motherlode opener should have started off no earlier then January to get the most boats involved. Other regions likely should start even later. Delta as an example, should really start late Feb at the earliest.

The whole concept of having revenue streams running 12 mos. a year is part of what's breaking the industry. Sure our weather MIGHT suffice to FISH 12 months a year, but the economy and strains from already having competed through out the year builds on you this time of year. I can get a lot of free passes from the wife to fish, but not all year long and do the pre-fish necessary to compete. That's more like a job.

It's overloaded expectations and needs to be addressed if 2011 is going to get any better.

Just my .02 cents,

sTony
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by elfish16 »

with Sean on this one. Its the trend anywhere. Cachuma this weekend only had 12 boats too. Did you see the Pro Am at havasu??? 17 boats? WOW!!!!!!!

Team derbies aren't what they used to be. Regardless if its a closed lake and/or open lakes...people just aren't fishing them. I know a LOT of guys not fishing this year because with only 10-15 boats per derby the payoff isn't enough to keep forking out $300 a derby.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Kelly Ripa »

Exactly Eric. Numbers are numbers. I had a great offer to team up with Steve Morris for the USAC Cachuma thing and when we were done doing the math it didn't add up. Since work informed me I will be going overseas a few times this year I pulled the plug on my season before it got started. Congrats to Larry and Doug on the win at Cachuma.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Ruthman »

I would like to fish the Ac teams but dont have the extra money or time right now . To be able to compete you have to put in some time or your just donating your money to a select few who put in the time on the water .
Right now over time is cut back and it is right before the holidays , i just dont feel like risking $300 . I think Tony is right a break is needed , start up in January , besides i just got back from an elk hunt in Wyoming and then deer season with my kids . If i asked for any more time away my wife would be really pissed off !!
Im wanting to do the Nor-Cal Bass it is some good competition and the entry fees are cheap , so i have just as much fun fishing them for less than half the price . :D
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Linehan »

There are a lot of factors that contribute to the smaller fields. In order of significance, here's my list.

1.) Economy- Gone are the days of people pulling $200K out of their homes and living beyond their means. Money is tight and everyone's holding onto it.

2.) Pro Teams- The average guy does not want to donate $300 to the pro teams who fish for a living and don't have regular 9-5's. 15 years ago, the only team I knew who fished teams for a living was Aaron Martens. Nowadays, every lake has 2-4 teams with Pro Teams that win a majority of the $$$.

3.) Drama- The cheating scandals, negativity, and org drama. The cheating scandals are such a black eye and although only a miniscule percentage probably cheat, it's very damaging to the integrity of our sport. Before the internet and Westernbass, people might not like a particular org or angler, but they wouldn't be publicly crucified. Today, a lot of what you see on the internet is malicious and not positive. Anglers get tired of negativity. I know I do!

4.) Unrealistic Expectations- Years ago, both team/pro anglers were used to giveaway boats/motors at many of the events. We all took it for granted! Nowadays, boat/motor manufacturers can't afford to donate a handful of boats and a lot of anglers feel as if they're fishing for less when they used to fish for so much more. The fishing industry has fallen victim to the economy like the rest of the United States yet for some reason, some anglers have the same expectations from years ago.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Linehan »

In summary, the core anglers are still showing up and I totally appreciate them. Whether I get 17 boats of 57 boats, I do my best to put on a good show.

Yes, times are a tough right now but things will get better in time. You just have to support the orgs and directors that do the best job and the rest will fall into place.

Brian
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by ruger123 »

Maybe if we could lower the entry fees, would that help. I wonder if we lowered the entry fees, some of the semi pro leage guys might fish, and more pros might fish. Maybe a all in cost of 200.00. I dont know just throwing out ideas. Maybe have five tournaments instead 0f seven. The tournaments could start in january and end in may, then toc in october or november. Five tournaments is better than seven i think .
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Mike »

Brian Linehan wrote:There are a lot of factors that contribute to the smaller fields. In order of significance, here's my list.

1.) Economy- Gone are the days of people pulling $200K out of their homes and living beyond their means. Money is tight and everyone's holding onto it.

2.) Pro Teams- The average guy does not want to donate $300 to the pro teams who fish for a living and don't have regular 9-5's. 15 years ago, the only team I knew who fished teams for a living was Aaron Martens. Nowadays, every lake has 2-4 teams with Pro Teams that win a majority of the $$$.

3.) Drama- The cheating scandals, negativity, and org drama. The cheating scandals are such a black eye and although only a miniscule percentage probably cheat, it's very damaging to the integrity of our sport. Before the internet and Westernbass, people might not like a particular org or angler, but they wouldn't be publicly crucified. Today, a lot of what you see on the internet is malicious and not positive. Anglers get tired of negativity. I know I do!

4.) Unrealistic Expectations- Years ago, both team/pro anglers were used to giveaway boats/motors at many of the events. We all took it for granted! Nowadays, boat/motor manufacturers can't afford to donate a handful of boats and a lot of anglers feel as if they're fishing for less when they used to fish for so much more. The fishing industry has fallen victim to the economy like the rest of the United States yet for some reason, some anglers have the same expectations from years ago.


Pretty much nailed it.....
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Brian D.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian D. »

ruger123 wrote: Maybe have five tournaments instead 0f seven. Five tournaments is better than seven i think .
Yup.. been sayin that for years. However, orgs won't do it because it interferes with their bottom line.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Mr Gambler »

I agree lower the entry fee a little, I"m on a fixed income& everything is going up, all my bills & tackle, if this keeps up might be my last year of tournament fishing. I heard won bass big valley had 3 boats show up at pine flat so they cacelled the tournament :(
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Terry G. »

Mr. Gambler,
I agree. I recently retired and am now on a fixed income. So I feel your pain and I hear what you're saying. What do you think about working out a deal with the Director. Say, you agree to fish all 7 tournaments. You pay 55-60% of the entry fee to the director each month then fish all the tournaments. Rather then coming up with $1,200 dollars in 5-6 months you could spread it out for the year for around a hundred bucks a month. No payment- no fish.

I just hate to hear of someone not being able to fish because of this crappy economy. Call me if you're interested in fishing clearlake, we'll try and work something out.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by RMANZO »

its not the economy...yes, it is bad, but us fisherman are still going to fish a circuit regardless... i took over the aba motherlode 3 years ago..in the past, i had fished aba, but certain directors gave me a bad taste..i stopped fishing aba(along w/alot of other motherlode teams)...then i started only fishing the other orgs....after going to other orgs events in the motherlode, they werent ran much different...finally, i decided i wanted to take a director position in the motherlode...i did my math and figured out which team circuit "truly" offered the best payback.and which one i really wanted to invest my time and effort into...i decided on aba....our #'s in the motherlode have "greatly" increased in the past few seasons and i really think we will be pulling over 50 teams this season....the main reason why my numbers are increasing is because "I DO THIS FOR THE FISHERMAN" :!: :!: PURE AND SIMPLE... jamie and i put in countless hours before each event...our event area when you arrive the morning of, makes you feel like you are @ a t.o.c.."every time" :!: :!: we do countless things "FOR THEM"...the motherlode guys can really see the "EFFORT" we put into it "FOR THEM".... when i ,still to this day, go to another orgs motherlode events to fish, you show up and you feel like you are @ a turkey shoot...no sponsor banners, no nothing...last year, an org even had us weighing in the dirt parking lot..come on..put the effort in for these guys, so when you take their $300 entry @ least they feel somewhat appreciated...
that is my .02 cents and before any of you "whack" me on this one, really think about it....
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Linehan »

Ditto! Everything you said above!

Brian
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Rich hamilton »

Dude,

How do you think the guys at the last havasu pro/am are feeling? I think it is time to bring back the $100 tournaments and just go from there. the writing has been on the wall regarding the economy for some time now, folks running tournaments simply must adjust. I fished a tournament last week and tanked. I looked at the results and even if I would have got a 3rd or 4th I still would be in the RED!

Tournament organizations do a 180 or pack your bags the writing is on the wall... somebody step up and lead the way or we are going to lose most folks. RR
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by swordfish »

As said many times before, the tourney fields are diluted by too many events. With low tournouts the paybacks only to top 5 at best which usually makes it only affordable for locals to fish because of less expenses (Team Tournys). 50 plus boats make a payback. Already the orgs. have started the new season just a couple of weeks after the TOCS AC is about to have number two on Clear Lake. In my opionon the circuits should break till January.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Terry G. »

The economy is bad. I personally know of friends who have been downsized, laid off, or replaced. I know folks who have lost houses, cars and boats. They will not be fishing any circuit no matter what. Fixed income folks are really struggling as well. to think that it's all a service issue is pretty naive.

However, I do agree that Directors must perform to a higher standard.

Orgs should consider ways to work together.

As far as permits for team tournaments. You should see the board at the DFG Jamboree for scheduling tournaments on Clearlake. You have to give a little to get a little. with TOC's, Pro-Am's and Specials, (Holder Ford etc..) it's a tough deal. Maybe only allow each circuit to have five Clearlake tournaments a year..hmmm.

You take a little bad with the good. Take a realistic look for a second....Fish a little in the Fall, fish after a TOC, fish in the winter, fish during the holidays, fish during the football play offs, fish after Xmas, fish right before Xmas, fish super bowl; or, wait and fish for 6 hours in the summer...pick your poison. There will always be issues. Nobody is holding the high ground.

You just do the best you can with what you have to work with.
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Vince Borges
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Vince Borges »

I think everybody here has some valid points! Remember when we all fished Stockton bass cause it was one of the few Delta team events. If I remember right it only cost 110.00 per team to fish! We used to draw 75+ boats per month. Cashed a lot of checks in that circuit for years. Never the big checks that the orgas are trying to offer today. It was more about fun, friendship, and a chance and reason to fish. Now there are at least 25 different Delta circuits if not more. The entries all went way up because guys were wanting that huge payback! Now the economy is in the toilet. Some guys are barely making there house payments. To fish a tourney with a $300.00 entry means your gonna want to prefish at least twice. So now that $300.00 entry plus gas, plus prefish your looking at spending about $600.00 per event! Fish one a month and that's $7200.00 per year. Explian that to your spouse when your struggling just to pay your bills! Tony is right, the old days always had the motherload starting in January, the Delta always seemed to start late Jan or even February! Those days are long gone! Too, I don't ever remember having to pay a membership fee to fish, nor a late fee, or an insurance fee. It was always a show up, pay, and play!! There was only a couple of pro-am circuits to fish! Not a dozen! Our sport is shrinking yet the options to fish are growing. I don't think it will ever rebound to what it was because there are just to many orgs now! It seems like if someone sees they can make a change, instead of working with existing orgs they start an other, and an other! When is enough enough?
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Linehan »

I remember a lot of things from 20 years ago Vince, but much has changed in our sport, country, and life in general.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Rich hamilton »

Vince,

My point exactly! Stockton bass had to limit the fields! having read this again I really think the anglers are speaking with their wallets. somebody will step up and listen! More and more folks talk about the fun and not about the money they won. We all would like to win 5k and have a forever memory but realistically that is not going to happen anymore!

Is it a fantasy to say "yep we went fishing today spent $50 each and came home with our money back, some sponsor product and a forever trophy"? I think their are some TD'S who get it but their hands are tied. Then there are others who will never get it. Again you are right, for me to practice and just be there I need $400 plus dollars to break even. I dont mind spending $100 per event and walking away empty. I think the huge payback of 100% bass etc (sorry Bob) got people thinking that we could continue in that direction. Remember the cost of MBA, The circuit that charles ran in the motherlode (forget the politics) stockton bass, nor-cal bass. These folks all had the right idea until greed pushed them out of the way.

From a business perspective we need to shop at the place that will fit our needs, for many of us that product is not out there. What is your honest reality without just quitting and giving up? find me a circuit with friendly folks, reasonable cost and without some far fetched TOC dream of winning a huge pot of gold at the end.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Linehan »

Sounds like you should be fishing the Future Pro Tour. Low entry, great turnouts.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by sTony »

Brian Linehan wrote:Sounds like you should be fishing the Future Pro Tour. Low entry, great turnouts.

You might not realize it, Brian, but back in the day, we all paid about a $100 entry fee and the most anyone could win, by law, was $400. And people lined up to fish. And it didn't matter if the boat across from you had Dee Thomas in it or not, you ponied up and played. There were no 'semi-pro' leagues, there were also a lot fewer events. There were no one lake regions with multiple tournaments at each. Guys got to fish all over and prove themselves on different waters and different seasons.

It was all so simple then.

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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by bryanmc »

We all know the definition of insanity... Problem here is there are several orgs all pursuing their version of it.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by sTony »

Even now, you could grow both team and rookie team environments at the same time and at some point likely grow each to better numbers. Here's my take on what it takes:

A) Eliminate all one lake regions everywhere, every level. Yes, even the Delta.
B) Put dramatically lower earning caps on the rookie leagues.
C) Orgs settle into their 'part' of the marketplace and stop trying to be one stop shop entities. Tackle stores, Federations and such re-structuring their programs to also lessen the numbers of tournaments.
D) Grow the Clubs. Guys supporting local clubs even after they've 'outgrown' the club as per competition. Keep coming back to the roots players and nurture them and grow more of them into tournament anglers on some level.

Get existing or new orgs to agree to the above guidelines when setting up their presentations and a lot would be fixed.

Again, just my .02 cents.

sTony
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Robert F »

sTony wrote:
Brian Linehan wrote:Sounds like you should be fishing the Future Pro Tour. Low entry, great turnouts.

You might not realize it, Brian, but back in the day, we all paid about a $100 entry fee and the most anyone could win, by law, was $400. And people lined up to fish. And it didn't matter if the boat across from you had Dee Thomas in it or not, you ponied up and played. There were no 'semi-pro' leagues, there were also a lot fewer events. There were no one lake regions with multiple tournaments at each. Guys got to fish all over and prove themselves on different waters and different seasons.

It was all so simple then.

sTony
Somebody will get it Tony. When they do they will own the business. Expecting that Team events are some sort of Elite level fishing is a joke.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Linehan »

Hey Robert-

Did you accidentally lock John's keys in the truck at Havasu?
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by sTony »

Robert F wrote:Somebody will get it Tony. When they do they will own the business. Expecting that Team events are some sort of Elite level fishing is a joke.
But now see, that's part of my point. Teams could be built into something very much more so Elite-like, if it had national implications. But guys fishing at the Pro-Elite level and such would have to be excluded for it to work. You have to cling to the notion that we're all semi-pro anglers and Skeet Reese and KVD are the pros. You don't see them fishing too many team tournaments.

Part of the California problem: I do have to, fishing at times against teams like Ish Monroe and Zack Thompson, one an Elite angler and another who'd likely qualify if they ran West Opens. The idea of fishing against that kind of team is what sends guys 'rushing' to the FPT and WRL. No slam on Ish or Zack intended, it's just how things are here.

PLUS; get everything sorted out here and you likely becoem much more attractive to B.A.S.S. and Opens returning. There would be a strong need for it.

Just more random brain farts, pardon me guys.

sTony
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Vince Borges »

D) Grow the Clubs. Guys supporting local clubs even after they've 'outgrown' the club as per competition. Keep coming back to the roots players and nurture them and grow more of them into tournament anglers on some level.
That says it all Tony. After 15+ years away from the club level I have returned to one. At the time my son was 15 and wanted to start fishing tourneys. So i joined the Manteca Bassin Buddies. Why? because I wanted him to learn at the same level i did 25 years ago. At 16 he got AOY in the club. This is his third year in it. He leaves me in 6 months for the military. :( So, is he ready for me to drop $400.00+ to fish a team event against the likes of Barrack, Andrews, Smith, or the Rossettis? Hell no! So its in the club we stay, and to be totally honest with you. Its the most fun Ive had fishing tournaments in a LONG time. The competition is perfect for him, everyone is there for the fun, (though there are some who take it serious) The cost per team $70.00!!
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Brian Linehan »

That's what it's all about Vince! Spending quality time with your son. Is he joining the Marines?
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Mike »

I sure do miss 100% Bass. I guess NBW has something similar but for some reason pulled out of the Delta.

IMO the tournament orgs are trying to make too much money off of us anglers. The pay back % sucks by the time the TD takes out his $20+ per team and the % he has to sent back to the corporation running these events. Then the $10 conservation fee, $10 insurance fee, $10 Usage fee, $10 late fee, etc.. We are basically fishing for our own option money. Korny used to bust his A$$ to get sponsor money to cover his expenses and pay for the day. Now TD are getting as much as $25 per team to run a event. $25x50 boats that $1250 for a days work!!! Is that really necessary? How about paying the TD a flat rate for the day? I'm sure allot of guys would love to make $300 for a days work. That would put back $950 into the payback right there. I know money goes back for the TOC, but now orgs are charging to fish the TOC now too! Its ridiculous! You have to come in the top 5 to even cover your days expenses. I don't like those odds. The whole system needs a overhaul and I don't see it happening unless the DFG stepps in. Greed ruined tournament fishing...
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by WON BASSIN »

Hey Guys,

I have been reading everyone's posts and have to say I for one, appreciate everything you all are saying and sharing. This is not falling on deaf ears, as far as WON BASS is concerned. There are many circumstances that have gotten us ( Tournament Orgs and Anglers ) to the point at which we are. Many of those issues have been discussed and pointed out in this thread and others. In the next two weeks, we will be releasing some new information regarding our teams formats, regulations and and year end qualifications for our fish off or offs, depending on our sponsorship deals for 2011. There is no stone that will not be turned, or reviewed for the purpose of trying to re-establish our great sport of tournament bass fishing. Keep the thoughts coming in as to how you feel things could be improved upon, and we will try to find the path of least resistance. There is no simple solution, but with minor tweaks and adjustments I strongly believe we can find a viable solution for all, and all orgs. It just takes some time and determination, and the will to want to make a difference, and WON Bass and I are committed to doing whatever we can with our great sponsors to help improve tournament fishing as we know it. Nurture those that are to be our graduates, and embrace those that have already graduated. One at a time is my philosophy!

Look in your weekly Western Outdoor News publication for our Baas-A-Thon 2010 supplement. We look forward to seeing you all at our booth this coming weekend at the 26th annual Bass-A-Thon. Please feel free to stop by and introduce yourself, and let yourself be heard.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by ruger123 »

WELL I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I FISHED WRL FOR 2 YEARS, AND I HAD A GREAT TIME FISHING. BUT THE MAIN REASON FOR FISHING WRL WASN'T THE COMPETION, IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE PRICE AND IT HAD WAY MORE BOATS. THIS YEAR I WAS ASKED TO STEP TO THE NEXT LEVEL WHICH IS FINE, BUT WHEN YOU GO FROM A FIELD OF 60-70 BOATS AND FISH A TOURNAMENT WITH 11 IT SUCKS. I REALLY THINK THAT LOWERING THE FEE TO 200.00 AND HAVING 5 TOURNAMENTS INSTEAD 7 AND GET RID OF THAT 45.OO MENBERSHIP FEE WOULD HELP. GOING BACK TO THE COMPETION I SEEN THE SAME GUYS THAT I FISHED AGAINST IN 100% BASS MOVE TO WRL, MAIN REASON LOWER PRICE.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Robchik »

sTony wrote:Even now, you could grow both team and rookie team environments at the same time and at some point likely grow each to better numbers. Here's my take on what it takes:

A) Eliminate all one lake regions everywhere, every level. Yes, even the Delta.
B) Put dramatically lower earning caps on the rookie leagues.
C) Orgs settle into their 'part' of the marketplace and stop trying to be one stop shop entities. Tackle stores, Federations and such re-structuring their programs to also lessen the numbers of tournaments.
D) Grow the Clubs. Guys supporting local clubs even after they've 'outgrown' the club as per competition. Keep coming back to the roots players and nurture them and grow more of them into tournament anglers on some level.

Get existing or new orgs to agree to the above guidelines when setting up their presentations and a lot would be fixed.

Again, just my .02 cents.

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ash
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by ash »

Money and Time - those are two very limited resources for me and drive my decision in terms of what I fish. I couldnt / wouldnt fish an org outside of a club that goes from TOC to the start of the next season with no time off. We bust our asses at work to make money to spend fishing and strive to cash a check. For those of us with weekday day time hours we can only get out to fish on the weekends, there are only 3-4 weekends a month, If I am fishing one and pre-fish two that leaves one - two for my family - this makes it tough.

I enjoy fishing in tournaments and the competition, to say there is no competition at the rookie league would be a mistake - there are some sticks in those leauges, some that dont hve the resources of time and money to gamble on.

So I agree - mix up the events, lower the entry fee and start tournaments in Feb - kick it up a notch where you have league qualifiers to get to the next level like CBC did and now you have a tiered system that is self feeding - of course this wont happen until orginizations can come to an agreement. It will be interesting if BASS brings back something like the federation where lil ole rookie me can actually take a shot at working my way up to a spot at the classic and turn pro, the way MIke Ikeonlelli did - but I think that ship has sailed or perhaps they are re-building the ship?
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RipnRog
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by RipnRog »

ash wrote:Money and Time - those are two very limited resources for me and drive my decision in terms of what I fish. I couldnt / wouldnt fish an org outside of a club that goes from TOC to the start of the next season with no time off. We bust our asses at work to make money to spend fishing and strive to cash a check. For those of us with weekday day time hours we can only get out to fish on the weekends, there are only 3-4 weekends a month, If I am fishing one and pre-fish two that leaves one - two for my family - this makes it tough.

I enjoy fishing in tournaments and the competition, to say there is no competition at the rookie league would be a mistake - there are some sticks in those leauges, some that dont hve the resources of time and money to gamble on.

So I agree - mix up the events, lower the entry fee and start tournaments in Feb - kick it up a notch where you have league qualifiers to get to the next level like CBC did and now you have a tiered system that is self feeding - of course this wont happen until orginizations can come to an agreement. It will be interesting if BASS brings back something like the federation where lil ole rookie me can actually take a shot at working my way up to a spot at the classic and turn pro, the way MIke Ikeonlelli did - but I think that ship has sailed or perhaps they are re-building the ship?


The federation was great ... it seems as though they do not promote it at all... On another note I have been getting nothing but great phone calls on the 1 in 3 payback that ABA went to. The last angler I spoke to said "nice to see that an org is finally listening".
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Levy »

RipnRog wrote: The federation was great ... it seems as though they do not promote it at all... On another note I have been getting nothing but great phone calls on the 1 in 3 payback that ABA went to. The last angler I spoke to said "nice to see that an org is finally listening".
I guess you have not recieved a phonecall from Cooch. After reading his blog he is clearly not to happy with ABA's move to 1-3 payback.

I certainly have my doubt's about it as well, but I will be out this weekend fishing my first ABA event to see how it goes.

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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by sTony »

Vince Borges wrote: He leaves me in 6 months for the military. :(
Our oldest son also will be leaving in about that time frame. Semper Fi!

sTony
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Vince Borges »

Well my old team partner blew out both his shoulders in an accident 5-6 years ago and had to quit. We won so many tourneys together. I was soooo pumped up when my boy came to me and asked if he could fish tourneys with me. I thought I had a new team partner for life. And I do!! I just have to wait 4 years and hope he comes home to us instead of finding his true love in some other state. :? LOL Well though I am sad and scared and worried about him, I couldn't be MORE PROUD! Now then, I need a new team partner! will be excepting applications come spring!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by sTony »

I've got a junior, sophomore and a freshman in high school. Now is really not a good time for me to be fishing anything other then occasionally for fun.

So there are a lot of reasons why people come and go from the tournament side of things.

sTony
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by TomL »

First off - in this post, I by no means am trying to sound like the CBC is the best. Nor am I trying to say the CBC is enough to sustain the tournament anglers in California. There are some great Tournament Directors in our state and some great events. As I browsed through these posts I couldn't help but smile a little as these are many of the things that got me to thinking about the CBC and why we (Mike, Gary and I) thought it would work.

Things like:
1 Affordable for the year < $150
2 Less time away from home or work - 1-4 tournament days total. with day 3 and 4 being a check guaranteed
3 Fish your home water, a neutral water and a good championship venue
4 Fish for a large payback ($15,000 first place plus a bad *** trophy and a boat wrap)
5 Get some recognition and some exposure for ALL the anglers not just the selected few. Live streaming of videos, angler profiles on line etc. (We need to improve on this for year 2 and beyond and we have some great new stuff in this area for year 2)

Now granted - we didn't do everything right in year 1 and probably won't again in year 2 or 3. But we are dedicated to working on it, and if you support it we will continue to offer you an affordable, non-time consuming, even playing field, large payback and a chance at some decent exposure event year after year. We will do everything we can to learn from our mistakes and listen to the anglers as best as possible. I do have to say attendance is the loudest voice.

With this said - we still need team tournaments and a lot of them.... maybe not as many as we have - but, still a good number of them.

I love what Brian Linehan does in So-cal - from all I have heard he runs a first class event. Same with Manzor and RipNRog and NBW on the whole does a hell of a job. Bill Cook is one of the best and Ed @ Tackle It does a great job too. There are lots more but, I don't have the time or the memory to list them all out. :)

What I will say is that in my opinion there should be 2 Pro levels of team events.

1. Big Money - Low turnout events. - This will appeal to the crowd who thinks they can win every event. They are in it to win it and expect to do well. A team that comes to mind in this would be Marshall/McCosker/Crutcher at Clear Lake - They want big $$$ events because they expect to cash in every event.

2. Low Money - lots of boat events. - This will appeal to the guys like many posts above - where risking over $300 for a shot at some money with no time to pre-fish etc.. If this event was in the $125-$150 all in - we could all fish 1 or 2 a month and not break our families or need second (or third) jobs!

I hate to bring up golf again - but, there is a mini-tour here in California that does exactly this. They have what they call the Twighlight tour - which is $120-$140 entry fee and then they have the main tour which is $325-$350. More guys golf the twighlight tour and they pay more spots and the money is not huge - but, the competition is good and everyone enjoys it. The Main tour is $325-$350 and guys only golf this if they think they have a realistic shot at making $$ doing so. After all - how many of us can risk $700 a month hoping to make a check.

I would think the first circuit that has a twighlight tour ($150 all in) - where 1 in 5 qualify for the TOC and a main tour (current entry fees) where 4 in 10 qualify for the TOC - would do pretty well and offer all angles for the anglers.

Truth be told - there is no RIGHT ANSWER - because collectively as anglers we all have different opinions on what WE want. I think a little variety in the tournament scene can be a good thing.

Just my .02 and I've been wrong before!
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by calfisher71 »

So many good topics here.

All these things are factors no doubt.

The sport is also doing nothing to Graduate Anglers from Future Pro Tour or WRL to the Pro Level. Many of these anglers the top 20 teams in every division could compete and win in the Pro teams level. "most dont like the high entry{economy} or who they fish against!

I think having these levels is good for the sport,but they need a program to move Anglers up into Pro teams and there simply is none.

If you win 4k a year in the WRl Anglers leave and go to the Future Pro Tour untill they pass 6k in a season.

I feel a entry level league should be $2500 in a season and move up after 2 seasons of hitting this number.

100% Bass did get sponsors to pay your TOC money and event costs.
This is still here just thru the WRL look at T.O.C payouts.

Understanding all of this what do the Tournament Circuits do to advertise there seasons to us? And to Pro -Ams?

They rely on Anglers knowing when they start,going to there website,posting a flyer at a tackle store ect. I know I missed the first event in USAC Pro teams last year due to this. By the time i found out when the first tournament was I was 2 weeks 2 late.

Many Many Factors. There currently is far too many circuits and the boat count is spread thin to many different orgs much of this is politics too of where people like or dont like fishing.

My Suggestion and I heard many upcoming Anglers state this same Idea.
Make a circuit that mirrors the WRL with 4 regions,start in January after the ISe show..

We need time off to recoop,save,plan,get sponsors,have family time,fish for stripers ect. Many Bass Anglers are in construction and have allways worked less in winter.
Now those Anglers have less savings to fish off.

Mix the lakes up so Anglers need to be good at different bodies of water and not just one just like the Pro-Ams are set up.

4 regions 5/6 events and a T.O.C

keep it simple,cost effective,timley,advertise it better,they will come.

my 1 cent....
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by bassmonkey »

I don't see why we still have the distinction between "pro" and semi-pro in team fishing. Most of us are all weekend warriors who do this for entertainment. Some guys/gals go gambling in a casino, some do it on the golf course, and we happen to do it on the lake. Who are we trying to impress here by calling someone a pro because they pay an extra hundred bucks to fish a derby. There is no real sponsorship opportunities for anyone fishing teams. I have never heard anybody aspire to become a team pro. Nobody's getting drafted or called up to the big leagues.

This is not really directed at anybody in particular, but the whole system as I see it. Drop the classifications of pro, rookie, future pro, semi pro and call them open tournaments. Open to any and all skill levels. Drop all the ticky tacky fees and eat it. This is why you have sponsors. If your sponsors only give you product, offer it to your anglers at a good discount and use the money to pay the permit fees, and pocket the rest, who cares. Eliminate the membership fees. In exchange the anglers must agree to accept promotional offers from sponsors via email or snail mail. Get your sponsors to pay you for the leads you are providing them. The companies will get leads on potential customers and the angler can have a chance at some good deals on stuff.

Why not have a lower basic entry fee (100.00) with a big fish option (50.00), and a high roller option (150.00) for the guys who want a bigger pay back. This would give the guys who want to fish a low cost tournament the chance to fish against all skill levels to see where they stack up. I learned alot by getting my butt kicked, still do. At the same time, the guys who want to pony up the extra cash can pay to play as well. Just a thought and no I don't want to start my own circuit. There are too many as it is.

I don't think creating traveling circuits will magically raise participation. I know the oldschool guys loved them and I fished my fare share back in the day, but gas was around a buck a gallon and trucks and boats weren't 40-50K +.

I like the CBC concept and I am looking foreward to giving it a try. At least these guys are trying something new. The rest of it aint working.

My 2 pennies.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by calfisher71 »

Good Stuff Tom L.

CBC was cool and I hope to play in it again this year.

Good for the solo Pro angler to go at it!

Gives a good locall venue in Cali.

I will say I know all you directors work your butts off ,and it's more work than most may realize to put together a event litalone a circuit.

My hats off to you.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by doug77 »

I think one of the main problems is that there are too many organizations-too many thumbs in a shrinking pie.
I would much rather only 5 or 6 with a throw out (instead of 7) in a series.
If you reduced the entry fees the winnings(especially in small tournaments) is obviously going to be reduced.If you did reduce them I would reduce some of the options that nobody understands,but then again the winning goes down.
I remember the old days where Won Bass was the only circuit(pro).We had big turnouts,every body competed at the same level and winnings meant something
The main problem(in thie economy) is I repeat-too many fingers in the pie.
Just my 3 cents
Aaron Cole
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Aaron Cole »

We all know that deviding the team circuits into Pro Teams and Future Pro/Rookie Leagues is what killed the turnout for so called Proteams. It's not rocket science. These tournament orgs are making more money with these lower entry fee tournys because they are drawing all the boats. Lower entry fees appeals to more guys, plain and simple. It's not the guys fishing these rookie tournys fault. You can't blame the orgs to much either because they're in it to make money and they figured out how to do it. I wish they would just have regular ol team tournys, like it used to be, UNDEVIDED. The only thing that will fix the problem is to not have Pro and Rookie League events and combine them into ONE, like it used to be. But we all know thats not going to happen.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Kevin Evans - Kap »

I just guess I'm in this thing for different reasons than most...
:o I would fish tourneys just to fish against the best... I'm not in it for the money but for the competition. Gain knowledge and get better so I can catch em anywhere anytime etc...
IMHO If you really love the sport, then WINNING money should not matter as long as you are having fun and everyone should want to win or you should not be fishing competitive tourneys...
I would pay the cost it took say 20 per Team or more for the ORG to run the tourney and to fish for bragging rights.
But I'm just a rookie right so what do I know...lol

Your gonna go fish anyways right?

my 2 cents
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Californiakid4 »

Tracy Bass puts on great team events for $120.00/team as well as opens and turkey shoots during the week. Check them out. Low cost entry decent payout for a days fishing.
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by RipnRog »

no matter what people come up with the one thing I as a TD have to remember is you can not please eveyone. Some fisherman are so dominent in certain areas that the only thing they look at is how much money they can make. I personally do not own ABA I run two regions for them and I do my best at each one. I have a great staff and I have invest almost 2 grand for the very best scale system I could find. ABA went to a 1 in 3 payback this year. So far I have only had one person complain about it and I have had a lot of positive phone calls from guys saying they are fishing with ABA now because of this.

I didnt get any complaints at the first folsom event. So we will see what the Delta brings this weekend......

Rodger
Aaron Cole
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Re: ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

Post by Aaron Cole »

Roger- I've fished ABA on the Delta and you guys got it right. I mostly fish the Motherlode Region, but the way you and Robert both run your tournaments is why i fish ABA. Keep it up. You guys throw a good ol REGULAR team tourny. None of this ( I dont want to fish if this guy or that guy is there) stuff, just show up and go fish a good honest ran tourny.
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