Price gouging by private lauches at Berryessa

[Steve]

So, I call Markley Cove to see what the deal is if I launch at 5 pm and leave at 5 am. They said since my truck would be in the parking lot after midnite, I would have to pay two days fees for launching, even though my truck would only be there for 12 hours or so. Hmmmm, pay for two launches for only one launch, doesnt seem right to me.

Now heres the thing. The exclsionary permits that places like Markley and Spanish Flat have are coming up for re-liscensing. If they dont get what they want, it will open the door for more launching oppourtinities. The private launches have formed an alliance and have asked for public support. Now, I ask all of you, why should we support these people? Theyve been screwing us for over 50 years, and they want us to support them so they can continue to screw us.

I dont have all my facts straight with the proposed legislation that will affect the private entities at Berryessa right now, but when I get it straight Ill make another post. Bottom line is this, these people are not reasonable with the prices they charge for launching, so why woudl we possibly want to suppor them in fighting new legislation that woudl break their monopoly and their leverage at being able to price gouge?

In the meantime, I told them I would be launching at the one free ramp instead. I suggest that all of you do the same as well.

[sTony]

If you're going to launch at the free ramp do so knowing that there are more problems associated with it and that your vehicle and trailer might have a higher likelihood of getting damaged. I know the pricing at Markley is high but its also secure. Paying a double fee for one launch is ridiculous but make sure you've spoken with management there and didn't just get some strange message from the folks that occasionally are behind the counter. It makes you wonder. What if a person launched their boat at Markley and went camping on the lake somewhere for several days. Would they be charged a launch fee for each day they were on the lake once they returned. Sounds as if you might have been better off by just launching and going and then trailering up and leaving when you got back as opposed to asking the question to begin with.

sTony

[Elmhurst bassman]

a couple of years back my partner and I fished an anglers choice night tournament. (start at 5 or 6 pm- weigh in at midnight then head back out and fish until first light and weigh in again) When we pulled up to the booth to pay the launch fee the ranger asked if we were fishing the night tournament. We replied yes. He then proceeded to charge us for two launch fees since we would be there past midnight. I was flabbergasted. Now if you pay for a floating campground or boat in campsite I believe the launch fees are included in your camping fees. The worst was when we went out for the weekend on a 28 foot party barge(the kind with the bathroom and beds) This is the type of craft that you launch (not moored up like a houseboat) We went out on a Friday afternoon planning to come back in on Sunday night and we had to pay 3 fees. It sucks but if the state is willing to rip you off the private guys will too.

[lawrencelee]

Don Pedro have been charging for daily launch fees for years - even though you only launch once but staying for more than 1 day. The other thing about the private marina operators at Berryessa is that you are also charge a day use fee in addition to the launch fee.

I personally launch out of Putah Creek because their are close to the house I stay at - but will use the free launch when there for only 1 day.

Smileee

[Mr B]

I cant remember which resort told us this . We wanted to go night fishing at berryessa and one of the launches told us we had to pay 2 launches AND a campground fee . I couldnt believe it. Luckily we wernt doing it that day, we were asking ahead of time. Needless to say we did not go back for night fishin.
Crazy. Man I hope those free launches at Clear Lake stay free!!!

Mr B

[sTony]

Clear Lake has the right idea which is why you see so many more folks going to do their thing up there. Many states other then California feature free launching facilities. I suppose you can add that to your list of reasons to move the heck outta this state.

sTony

[Brian Linehan]

*NM*

[Steve]

The problem has its roots with DFG. Why do most other states have mostly free launches? You all can figure that one out. In the near future Im gonna expand on this, but not right now, I want to check on some facts first.

And, Ive said this for a long time, the towns around Clear Lake totally have it figured out. They know how important the lake is to their economies, therefore they spent the money to build and maintain a free launch to protect and nuture their livlihood. I was always told dont bite the hand that feeds you, but thats exactly what Markley Cove, Spanish Flat and the rest of them are doing.

Would I have paid $15 to launch so I can night fish? Absolutely, I have no problem with that. Am I going to pay $30 because my truck will be in the parking lot beyond an aribtrarilly chosen date that signals the passing of a day and the beginning of another. Nope, only because thats being unreasonable. I dont support any business whos business practices are unreasonable. Maybe the launch fee/daily use fee should be good for 24 hours based on time of purchase. Thats reaonable.[/quote]

[MyBullet]

Try hitting up Amador they charge per 24 hours but for 2 in the boat it's $32 +$1.00 for the dog which I ALWAYS roll up the windows so I don't get stuck with it

I stopped fishing Amador after the last fee hike, affording it isn't the problem $32 is just not realistic.

[Steve]

And I still cant figure out how a private entity can own a lake. Somebody had to give them a permit to dam a waterway to make the lake. Why would such a permit be issued? Hell, I want to own a lake and charge people to fish it, do you think DFG and other agencies would give me a permit to do so? I doubt it.

Does anybody know how Amador came to be a private lake?

[Turkeyman]

At Lake McClure if you get to the lake after 6pm, you can launch your boat for the same fee as long as you tell them that you will be night fishing. I'm not sure what the cutoff time is the next day, but I have fished until 3 or 4 am without any problems. This seems very acceptable.

[sTony]

why does everything in California have to be approached from a pay to play stance? Clear Lake and a few random launches elsewhere being the exception. For tournaments, if the forestry or state departments are involved there additional fees. If you launch at a state site you get popped a bit extra. There are many states that figure you're already paying when you pay your taxes, purchase your license and so forth. Owning a boat in a county costs you an additional fee beyond the DMV and state fees and sales tax. You get to pay a bit more then everyone if you go over a toll bridge. Bridges that when they were built were not done so with a charge in perpetuity in mind but once the state starts collecting money they never let the well run dry. Everybody wants a piece of the perceived pie and to me it's ugly.

Then you get to see where none of the monies you pay go towards the facilities or waters in the state but to other pet projects or bail outs of ill thought out societal plans.

It's the entire pay to play mentality that I resent but what's a person to do.

Okay, that's it for me, I'm off the soap box.

sTony

[MyBullet]

Paid Taxes when I bought my boat, Pay the yearly tags for the boat. Get hit every year for $340 personal water craft tax to keep it at my house which I pay property tax on. Lot of people tapping into one boat if you ask me.

Live in San Jose, anyone from out of the area get hit with the personal watercraft tax?

[Mark Langner]

Paid Taxes when I bought my boat, Pay the yearly tags for the boat. Get hit every year for $340 personal water craft tax to keep it at my house which I pay property tax on. Lot of people tapping into one boat if you ask me.

Live in San Jose, anyone from out of the area get hit with the personal watercraft tax?

I was under the impression the "luxury tax" (PWC) was state wide. I've been hit with it every county I've ever lived...

[Steve]

... what Ive been complaining about for the last nine years (and this launch thing is just one of 100 issues Ive complained about). And its worse for me considering Im on the inside and really see how the decisions are made, whos making them, the intelligence level of whos making them, etc. etc.

So what can we do? Well, I for one know what I can do, but Im a quite a few years away from being in a decision making situation. What can you do? Well, explain your viewpoint to the establishments (yes, I called Markley and respectably told them they were being unfair and that I would never patronize their business again). Two other things you can do (at least in the Lake Berryessa situation): 1) learn about the legislation being proposed that would affect places like Markley and support such legislation, and 2) bring these issues to light on this forum and other forums.

Additionally, I am thinking of e-mailing the owners of Markley, Spanish Flat,etc. and providing a link to this thread so they can see how people feel, and they can understand how the internet can be an excellent tool that quickly and effectively gets info out, and they can begin to understand that indeed their businesses can be hurt by pulling the kind of bs that they do.

Remember everybody, the lakes of CA are the publics resources (literally, we all own them), and DFG is the appointed steward of these resources. When DFG contracts out access to our resources to private entities (no doubt they do this under the guise "we dont have the budget to manage and maintain access areas"), those private entities can do whatever they want. When the money to access "our resources" gets to the point where its causing people not to access those resources, or pricing them out of being able to access those resources, this is when there is a major problem.

Seems to me we have a major problem.

So exactly where does all the money go for all the licenses, fees and stamps?

[mark poulson]

I pay the tax on the boat in my driveway, my tags, my passes, .....on and on. But I'm lucky right now, I can still afford it. In ten years it may be another story.
I think a major part of the problem is the fact that the Federal Govt. takes much more in taxes out of our state than it returns. Many states get more than they pay in.
There sure seems to be a disconnect between the people who live here, and the people we pay to run things. They have no sense of how things really are. Just look at public education.
How about an initiative that requires all statewide elected officials to put their kids in public schools up through the first four years of college? Right now, they're falling all over themselves to run for office, so I don't think it's too big a sacrifice to ask them to use the same public services they feel so free to underfund. Who knows, if that works, we could expand to public health, and then public transportation. Not to mention using state parks and lakes for their recreation and vacations like the rest of us, instead of junkets to Asia, Europe, or wherever.
Remember, no one bails harder than the guy in the sinking boat.
Mark

[catn2004]

It's been several years since I night fished Berry, go tried of getting ripped off, MHO.

The free launch at Capel if day use only, in there after sun down risk of a ticket.

The other places charge a camping fee!!!

Would like to fish Berry at night, but its the point of paying a camping fee when on the water. So they don't get my business up there.

[TWinger]

We decided, my wife and I, to go to Berryessa on Sunday to get a few hours of no travel fishing in. When we arrived, it was foggy and cold, I should have known then, not right for June, it almost seemed like Scary Movie, and only a few people, mostly bass fisherman around. I made the remark,with much wisdom and insight as I am known world wide for, that with gas prices the way they are, it is cheaper to drive by water then by car to the upper portion of the lake, and with no one there it would be alot easier when we left, being a less drive home, so we paid $15.00 to launch. My new Verado does very well on gas if you keep it under 70 mph LOL, Hard to do, so we were off.

It wasn't long before "they" began to show up in numbers, the boaters, not the fish. They were every where. I knew deep down, it would be this way, but the voices in my head tell me to go. What can I do but follow. We toughed it out, wake after wake, passing boat after passing boat, to the point of getting sea sick. Soooooooooo we decided to leave. Upon our return, to the ramp where it was going to be easier to leave and drive home, my earlier wisdom, you would have thought Merkley was paying the boaters to launch there. It was sooooo packed you could not move. No parking inside or out. No room to launch or depart, no one was moving, nothing was happening, it was like we were in slooooow motion. No parking on Highway 128 for several hundred yards each way. People standing around, looking in amazement, pointing, giving directions, depending on who you followed, and which of there single finger they held up, it was unreal. As we trailered the boat, forty minutes of waiting , the arguements broke out the pushing started and the real fun began. As an observor of human nature that day it was not hard to see the best people at there worst, and the worst people at there best. I thought to myself, people pay hundreds of dollars for this type of entertainment, and we watch the videos on TV all the time. What a perfect end to a perfect day. It was amazing. I had not seen this type of scene as well scripted on a good TV show.

As we drove home, I thought about these posts from Friday, and how they had been talking about the costs and how many had said they had stopped going because they were feeling ripped off. I found enormous humor in the posts in comparison to the way those who own and operate the facility must feel. I am sure those who own this facility are laughing all the way to the bank. I changed the way I looked at it. I don't think we bring them the money we think we do. I did not see Bass fisherman invloved in these ramp situations. They were Boaters, Skiers and Drinkers, sounds like a new Country song, paying these prices having the time of their life and loving life even if it were living while wrestling in the gravel at the ramp. Gravel, mud and beer, a great combination if we think back to our youth. I am firm to believe that if these folks, the Boaters, Skiers and Drinkers, were to be charged $20.00 or even $25.00 to launch they would come. And when they stop, someone else will replace them. It is because we are all raised to paying a fee for everything, good or bad, we live for it. Look around, we pay and will always pay, pay and pay. We are powerless to do anything esle. I hate it too, but it has now become just the way it is. Each gerneration has to cycle through these life stages before reaching the wisdom we have all reached. And unless we all stop raising a new generation it will continue. It is life, and the way it is.

[sTony]

The fisherman are the guys that support the lake year round. All those jet skier and skier and boaters are there from May to September.

Just a thought,

sTony