Naci Monsters

[John Barron]

Jared Litner holding a 7.5# Largemouth and Nick Salvucchi holding a 4.5# Smallie part of their crushing win at Naci Dec 6th. They weighed in 18.12# and 2nd place was 10.55# 3rd place was 8.74#............holly smokes nobody was even close!

[Team Fugowee]

Looks like it's a Spot/smallie to me. Both are nice fish just the same.

[tunaman (SCFF Duplicate)]

Looks like it's a Spot/smallie to me. Both are nice fish just the same.

Interesting... how do you judge it to be a spot???

Roger

[Ray L.]

you mean a mean mouth....
I don't think so

[DL]

heres a picture of a mean mouth

[drew]

I think the reason Gary might think its a spot is because it does have some spots on its side and the angle that Jared is holding the fish makes the mouth look small. Also the fish looks slightly thin for a LMB this time of year and spots typically are thinner then LMB. I just looked a few of my pictures of spots from Naci and the coloration of the markings are much more defined and darker. I wish I could post the pictures from my last practice, but I'd have to erase your memory afterwards.

Interesting... how do you judge it to be a spot???

Roger

[smitty121080]

Andy I think he was asking Gfinch Gary? why he thinks its a spot I believe. Looks like a largemouth and smallie to me.

[drew]

Oops.

Andy I think he was asking Gfinch Gary? why he thinks its a spot I believe. Looks like a largemouth and smallie to me.

[tunaman (SCFF Duplicate)]

Andy I think he was asking Gfinch Gary? why he thinks its a spot I believe. Looks like a largemouth and smallie to me.

As far as I know, there are three ways (aside from DNA testing) to differentiate a spotted bass from a largemouth bass:

• 1. Jaw Bone. The jaw bone of a spotted bass does not extend past the eye.
  2. Cheek Scales. Scales around the eye area, cheek, are much smaller than the scales along the length of the body. On largemouth, the scales on the ckeek and the rest of the body are similar in size.
  3. Tongue Patch. Spotted bass will have a rough patch on their tongues. It is important not to use this characteristic by itself, because largemouth can have this patch as well.

Based on that, I don't think there's enough information in the photo to tell. Size and coloration are not reliable indicators.

Hey DL - that photo looks familiar!!!

Roger

[DL]

Hey DL - that photo looks familiar!!!

Hmmm, a friend of mine whipped that up not too long ago...

[Team Fugowee]

I said spot/smallie. Cross or hybrid, we call the Muleies(sp).
Why. The markings and tail. Plus somebody I trust that was there, said so . Diamond shaped pattern running down the middle like a rattle snake. The tail is forked(spot) not square like a smallie.
My wife and I caught some bass at Millerton 20+ years ago, we couldn't recognize them as SM or LM and called them Rattle Snake Bass, found out they were Spotted Bass.
My wife caught the Naci lake record spot years ago during a WON Bass tournament, 5.28. Most likely the great, great....... grandma to this fish.
I would say the majority of small mouth looking fish in Naci are Muleies.

Just my opinion, we'll never know unless it was kept and tested.
Gary and Chris Finch, Team Fugowee

[tunaman (SCFF Duplicate)]

OK, thanks. Just wondering what you were seeing that gave that impression.

Roger

[drew]

I originally thought you meant a spot and smallie not an intergrade. Its not possible for a smallie and a black bass to procreate since they are different species. It would be like a cat and dog procreating. Smallies do have a relatively flat tail, but when they are collapsed or not stretched they form a slight v shape. BTW I have never caught a smallie at Naci and to see one of that size does amaze me.

I said spot/smallie. Cross or hybrid, we call the Muleies(sp).
Why. The markings and tail. Plus somebody I trust that was there, said so . Diamond shaped pattern running down the middle like a rattle snake. The tail is forked(spot) not square like a smallie.
My wife and I caught some bass at Millerton 20+ years ago, we couldn't recognize them as SM or LM and called them Rattle Snake Bass, found out they were Spotted Bass.
My wife caught the Naci lake record spot years ago during a WON Bass tournament, 5.28. Most likely the great, great....... grandma to this fish.
I would say the majority of small mouth looking fish in Naci are Muleies.

Just my opinion, we'll never know unless it was kept and tested.
Gary and Chris Finch, Team Fugowee

[DL]

No so fast my fine friend, I found this and posted below, the link to the website I found it on. While uncommon, the "hybrid" of these two species, is indeed possible.

“Mean-mouth Bass”

Angler interest in the naturally occurring smallmouth bass / spotted bass hybrid has heightened recently due to an article in BASSMASTER magazine concerning the documentation of a new state record in Missouri. The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources would like to address this hybrid and its implications to anglers.

A hybrid occurs when one fish species spawns with a different, but closely related species. Hybrids can occur naturally or can also be intentionally produced in a hatchery. Naturally occurring hybrids are common among sunfish species such as bluegill and green sunfish. A common hatchery produced hybrid is the hybrid striped bass (white bass / striped bass). Hybrids of black bass species have been documented in the United States for some time. Early research dealt with hatchery production of a largemouth bass / smallmouth bass hybrid. This was the original “mean-mouth” bass. The largemouth / smallmouth bass hybrid is not common in nature due to differences in both habitat preferences and spawning times. However, smallmouth bass and spotted bass can overlap in habitat use and spawning times. Generally, there are subtle behavioral differences associated with spawning that prevent or minimize hybridization. Although the smallmouth bass / spotted bass hybrid is not the original “mean-mouth” bass, it has acquired this name over time.

The smallmouth / spotted bass hybrid has been found at very low densities in several states including Missouri and Georgia. Kentucky has not documented the presence of this hybrid. This does not mean it doesn’t exist; it just means the Department has not collected any specimens and genetically tested them.
The Department has now begun to examine for the presence of this fish in Kentucky.

A limited number of anglers have been asked to save some fish that they consider to be “mean-mouth” bass. We ask that only these selected anglers provide the fish so that we do not receive more fish than we can process. Collected fish will be sent to a lab for genetic testing.

Most anglers will probably never encounter this hybrid due to its low numbers. An “odd” looking smallmouth or spotted bass may not necessarily be a hybrid. Presently there is no size-limit regulation addressing hybrid black bass; however the six fish creel limit will apply. Wildlife and Boating officers will exercise their discretion when they inspect these fish in angler’s creel. To prevent any problems, anglers should obey the smallmouth bass size limit (the most restrictive) when they catch a “mean-mouth”.

By Jeff Ross Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources


http://www.fishin.com/articles/meanmouth.htm

[John Barron]

Gary knows what he's talking about. It seems he has dealt with oddball stuff all his life..............

I caught a fish at Pine flat back when Selby and I were fishing together with the eyes on top of it's head like a Halibut. It sort of looked like a Bass but we almost didn't weigh it in and it was our biggest fish.
jb

[drew]

DL, I believe the only way for this to be possible in nature is if the spotted bass species has some small mouth genetics. In nature its nearly impossible for two different species to cross, but many Frankenstein species are developed in the laboratory. BTW Who is the CFF board biologist. We should have a professional to ask these questions.

[John Barron]

Is our Biologist and he should be on before too long.
jb

[DL]

DL, I believe the only way for this to be possible in nature is if the spotted bass species has some small mouth genetics. In nature its nearly impossible for two different species to cross, but many Frankenstein species are developed in the laboratory. BTW Who is the CFF board biologist. We should have a professional to ask these questions.

The only thing I have to go on is what was written by the biologist. And it appears, at least to me, that it is entirely possible for this to happen. Nature always finds a way...always

[Mike Giusti]

Hybrids of smallmouth/spotted bass are possible as is smallmouth/largemouth crosses. I have also seen pure smallmouth that look like the pictures. Without the fish in hand it is not possible to tell what it is for sure.

Mike

[Team Fugowee]

[quote="John Barron"]Gary knows what he's talking about. It seems he has dealt with oddball stuff all his life..............

"Selby and I"

Yep your right.........

[Team Fugowee]

What Ever............ Really doesn't matter as they are both beautiful fish!

[John Barron]

Selby was an oddball.........

[drew]

I guess it is possible and most likely this hybrid does exists at Naci. I was also reminded last night that in practice a few months ago my partner actually caught one of these hybirds. He said the one he caught looked like a spot, but had no teeth on its tongue and had a small mouth. I wonder what affect this could have on a fishery?

Hybrids of smallmouth/spotted bass are possible as is smallmouth/largemouth crosses. I have also seen pure smallmouth that look like the pictures. Without the fish in hand it is not possible to tell what it is for sure.

Mike

[Team Fugowee]

After a while you'll ask where the small mouth went.
I haven't caught one(spot) in San Ant yet, butt I've heard from others that they have. If so it's too bad, as the small mouth there are/were a viable resource.
Face up on the guillotine no mask, for the perp's.

[Bill Cook]

That fish had sharp teeth all over it's tongue. Looked more like a cross in person.

Bill