FLW question????

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littlebailey
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FLW question????

Postby littlebailey » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:16 am

Who here thinks its fair for FLW to put observers on the boat with guys that are fishing as a pro? Remember the rest of the pros have co anglers casting all over the place and catching fish they found. Now your gonna tell me FLW think its fair that since they had 4 too many pros, they can just stick an observer on a boat and it makes it ok? Thats a bunch of BS is what it is. Its a completely unfair advantage to not have a co casting on your fish. i know i would have made the cut if i didnt have one either of the days. So this is my take on it. Just wanted to know if its fair of them to do? Or should they shut the pros down that tried to sign up at the event because they lagged and didint sign up till they found fish?
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Re: FLW question????

Postby fastcat » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:51 am

Would have to agree that sucks huge advantage. Just curious did those four pros do well.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Marty » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:18 am

The first question I have, how many of the top 10 had an observers during the first two days of fishing?

The next question, was it know at the Wednesday meeting that some Pro would be going out with just observes? And why was not the issue raised then?

The last question is why are Co-Anglers “casting all over the place” and “catching fish you found”? You have control of the boat and if you did not put into a position to prevent that, whose fault is that, the Co-Angler?

The way I look at it the 4 Pro should have been signed up by 30 Aug (Balance due date). Also the Co-Angler should have been signed up by the same date. FLW should had their list made out and published on 1 Sep. I understand a Pro or Co-Angler not being able to make it to the tournament because of sickness or family emergence but being short 7 Co-Anglers on the day of the meeting?

The whole reason for the balance due date is to prevent this.
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littlebailey
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Re: FLW question????

Postby littlebailey » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:51 am

It was brought up at the meeting by me. I was told to leave the room and it was none of my business. Not sure who drew the observers but that doesnt matter. Also nobody cares about the co casting all over the place that isnt the point. They swipe fish form us all the time. I taught my co the cast the first day after boating three in a row to find him chucking one over my head while i was putting another bait on. Low and behold he caught the 5 i needed to make the cut. was that against the rules? No, but it wouldnt have happened if my co was an observer right? thats the point. There was a simple question in there and that is do you think its an unfair advantage? thats all.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby rickyshabazz » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:12 pm

I can see your point, but as I remember it there were actually four cos that did not show up to the check in that were paid in full that allowed those four pros to sign up for the tournament. On the flip side those four pros were out on the lake under the impression that they were in the tournament. FLW nor the pros knew that those guys would not show up because they were paid in as cos.


I know one of those pros practiced for a week and was told 5 minutes before the draw that the cos that the cos never checked in. He had thousands invested and was about to be sent packing for something that was the fault of the guy who did no show up or call that he would not be there.

No win situation where someone was going to get the short in of the stick. Not saying I agree or disagree.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Long Nguyen » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:13 pm

littlebailey wrote:There was a simple question in there and that is do you think its an unfair advantage? thats all.


Its clear you're frustrated. But there are a lot of "what ifs" here. "What if" you ended up catching a 6 or 7 later in the day? Then that 5lber the co-angler caught wouldn't have made a difference. "What if" you spun the boat out of position while you were putting a new bait on, so the co-angler couldn't cast to your spot and stick your fish? I've seen Robert Lee do this on Bassmaster episodes that he pushes the boat off the spot with his trolling motor while he culls fish or rigs up baits. "What if" you made it clear to the co-angler that you appreciated him not casting towards the front of the boat? "What if" that 5lber never bit for you? See what I mean?

To your question, I think having a co-angler in the back of the boat can work both ways. How many pros get turned onto a color, bait, depth change etc from having an extra stick in the boat during game day? I'm sure you have experienced this before yourself or at least experienced it during pre fish. Having another stick in the boat isn't a bad thing, but in your case, perhaps a little defensive boat positioning or clear casting preferences will help you in the next FLW event.

My thoughts and it's too bad you didn't make the cut.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby littlebailey » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:59 pm

yo im not complaining about cos cathing fish. im asking if you think its an unfair advantage to not have one on your boat? I try to let my cos catch fish. yeah i mpissed i didnt make the cut but thats not the cos fault its mine. Where do you get off turning this into a me against the co angler? i was asking about FLW. Ricky got it because hes smarter than the average poster. Why not stop and just simply answer the question and not turn into something it isnt?
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Long Nguyen » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:20 pm

littlebailey wrote: Where do you get off turning this into a me against the co angler?


Right here Paul. By posting this detail the perception I got was you were upset that the co-angler caught that fish. If you really just wanted an answer to your question, whether having a co angler is an disadvantage, then leave this out. I re-read your post and maybe you included that for relevance, but it sure did perceive that you were upset he stuck that five.

littlebailey wrote: I taught my co the cast the first day after boating three in a row to find him chucking one over my head while i was putting another bait on. Low and behold he caught the 5 i needed to make the cut.


littlebailey wrote: Why not stop and just simply answer the question and not turn into something it isnt?


I answered your question here.

Long Nguyen wrote:To your question, I think having a co-angler in the back of the boat can work both ways. How many pros get turned onto a color, bait, depth change etc from having an extra stick in the boat during game day? I'm sure you have experienced this before yourself or at least experienced it during pre fish. Having another stick in the boat isn't a bad thing, but in your case, perhaps a little defensive boat positioning or clear casting preferences will help you in the next FLW event.


Like I stated earlier, bummed you didn't make the cut. Still a decent performance with a top 20. You beat a lot of good sticks.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby offduty » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:04 pm

I certainly wish all the Pro anglers the best. After reading this thread I have no desire to be a Co because it sounds like you pay to have a Pro keep you from getting any good angles or a decent shot at a good spot. Finding good water is extremely important in bass fishing. Maybe I am wrong I do consider that but I have fished behind others before and they certainly get first shot at the best spots as they are in control of the boat and use that to there advantage and the back seaters frustration. This is something I try not to do when I take a buddy fishing because it does not seem cool. Of course I realize when your playing for money ethics can take a beating. I do not feel it would be fair to have Pro's with and some without Co's, that is not a level playing field.

Just sayin
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Kevin Stewart » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:06 pm

I agree with you completely Paul, unfair advantage.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Kevin Evans - Kap » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:44 pm

I think it could lead to an advantage, so it is unfair I feel as well.
One question though, can the observer still have the option to fish but not weigh any in?

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Re: FLW question????

Postby FATGUY » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:30 pm

listen to all the bs.. its why i believe shared weight is better .. just an old guys .02

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Re: FLW question????

Postby WON BASSIN » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:04 pm

As a tournament director myself... I can see the point that is trying to be made here.

Answer: No I do not think it was fair. Fair is unilateral! My opinion... If the observer was told they could not fish.. The TD or organization should have explained the format to the observer, and had them fish the event as any angler would. Every angler I know, man or woman is competitive, and they should have mimicked what the other co's were doing, to be absolutely fair!

Solution: Shared weight format, such as our current format. Even in a shared weight format, we insist on sending Pro's out with at least someone on the boat.... Solo fishing leaves to many questions to the perception of other anglers. In a non-shared weight format it is completely unfair, even if it is random selection, as to who goes out solo. I find it hard to believe they could not find someone that wanted to get out for the adventure and experience. Hell we always have to find people, and that is part of the job.

"By saying SOLO, I meant that the observer was not in a position to catch fish that the Pro may have! As a swimbait fisherman myself, being in the back of the boat....Bites! But then again, they have a choice to be in the front if they wanted to, or could afford it. Pro's should not have to worry about moving off a spot, so the co doesn't catch the fish they have worked and spent time and money finding

Tough decisions are always necessary and there will always be someone that is not happy with the decision made, but they must be made.

As tournament directors the decisions are made based on fairness, and not the individual.

Ricky has a point, as there is always the unknown factor.... Is everybody that pre-registered going to show up? Is everyone that paid a deposit going to fish? Are the guys that are waiting to see how their bite is, going to stay in? How many guys are out pre-fishing that have not signed up, and are going to show up at registration? For the best payout, you will take as many boaters as you can get, whenever you can. There is no perfect answer, you just have to put the time and effort in to do the best you can to ensure the most level playing field possible!

If I had the solution to all these issues, I would share it. But sometimes you have to roll with it and make that decision when the time comes!
Last edited by WON BASSIN on Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby bryanmc » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:13 pm

littlebailey wrote:Who here thinks its fair for FLW to put observers on the boat with guys that are fishing as a pro?


I'm just curious Paul... If you had a non-fishing observer assigned to your boat, would we be reading this now? Would you have withdrawn from the event because it wasn't fair to the other pros? Pull up your pants and move on...

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Re: FLW question????

Postby littlebailey » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:24 pm

Brian to answer your question no i wouldnt have withdrawn, but i guarantee you there would have been some protests if i did draw an observer. In fact you would have been the first one making the call. When you actually fish a tourny you might have some ground to stand on but when you stand behind your keyboard and look like a db you get no say. Just my opinion. :D
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Ron T. » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:58 pm

Fair or not ? I can see your point but like mentioned, lots of what ifs. Like for example,if your fish were gone but the co angler had a good spot from practice and you cought a 5lbr on his water. Info the guy with an observer would not have had. What ifs . On another note I have been thinking of trying my luck on with the FLW in 1012. My question is , what is the writen or un writen rules as a co angler and if the co is to fallow these rules what should the pro give him in return. As far as helping him out to return the favor if anything. Is it really that cut throat between the two on the water.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Kevin Stewart » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:12 pm

littlebailey wrote:Brian to answer your question no i wouldnt have withdrawn, but i guarantee you there would have been some protests if i did draw an observer. In fact you would have been the first one making the call. When you actually fish a tourny you might have some ground to stand on but when you stand behind your keyboard and look like a db you get no say. Just my opinion. :D


+1 good one Paul.....

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Kevin Stewart » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Ron T. wrote:Fair or not ? I can see your point but like mentioned, lots of what ifs. Like for example,if your fish were gone but the co angler had a good spot from practice and you cought a 5lbr on his water. Info the guy with an observer would not have had. What ifs . On another note I have been thinking of trying my luck on with the FLW in 1012. My question is , what is the writen or un writen rules as a co angler and if the co is to fallow these rules what should the pro give him in return. As far as helping him out to return the favor if anything. Is it really that cut throat between the two on the water.


Why would any pro even go to a co's water much less than even ask or listen to anything about that????? Very UN-Professional!!!!!

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Re: FLW question????

Postby rickyshabazz » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:18 pm

Ron,
Fishing the FLW as a co is a great experience. 90% of the anglers (pro and co) are great people. For example, I drew the co that finished second (the 17 year old) and I gave him baits and hooks. It depends on if two people click and hit it off. Unfortunately the good stories dont get told as much as the bad ones because bad news sells.

FLW is a better option if your skills are fairly high. if you are new to tournaments then WON would be a better option because the skill level of many co anglers is very high and FLW is not a teaching moment as much as WON is. Each venue has its place. When I was a co angler I won more money fishing non-shared weight but learned more fishing shared weight.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby bryanmc » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:21 pm

littlebailey wrote:Brian to answer your question no i wouldnt have withdrawn, but i guarantee you there would have been some protests if i did draw an observer. In fact you would have been the first one making the call. When you actually fish a tourny you might have some ground to stand on but when you stand behind your keyboard and look like a db you get no say. Just my opinion. :D


Nice try Paul. First off, I could care less who has an observer. Unless I missed something looking through the stats, nobody that had an observer on day one or two finished above you. Yeah... maybe some day I'll fish a tourney, (your *** is showing again). I noticed you were awfully quiet when I was standing next to you on the dock at Shasta in January. My point is that you only posted this when you weren't the guy who drew the observer, looks kind of whiny from here. And rest assured, you're more than welcome to step right up to my face any time you feel the urge.
Last edited by bryanmc on Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby swimbait » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:33 pm

Paul - totally agree they should not allow observers when everyone else has a co. Doesn't matter the specific details of what happens in person's boat, it's just not right on principal.

Sounds like you were getting bit on a specific cast. The co should recognize that and respect your cast even if you're dealing with fish or culling or whatever. That's a weak move. It's like throwing on a missed bite while the pro is grabbing another rod. Shouldn't do it in any situation.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby ScottyJ » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:41 pm

To answer Pauls question no its not fair. Whether it benefit or hinder the outcome of the pro its not the same having an observer vs. someone fishing.


Kevin Stewart wrote:Why would any pro even go to a co's water much less than even ask or listen to anything about that????? Very UN-Professional!!!!!


Now Kevin really? I'm not saying a pro should EVER ask a co for info or water to fish, but do you really think you are that good that if u were having a bad day and a co offered something that maybe they found during pre-fish, that you couldn't learn something from a co?
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Kevin Stewart » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:33 pm

ScottJ,
I never said I was that good, so I am not sure were you are going with this and yes I am sure that I could learn something from some of the Co's that I have drawn but like I said why would a Pro even ask or listen ever, on a good or bad day, thought that it was my job to put the practice time in and make the decisions....
So what your saying is it's ok to listen but not to ask, again very Un-PROfessional!!!

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Re: FLW question????

Postby littlebailey » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:14 pm

Brian I probably didnt say anything to you because your not worth the time. That and i wouldnt know who you are if you stood in front of me. Thats how much i dont care. But to get on here and post negative crap against me whenever you get the chance just shows how jealous you really are of me. Its probably just your midlife crisis happening so i know you'll grow out of it someday. Have fun watching us all fish.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby bassrman » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:19 pm

why does this website always turn into a soap opera ! I rarely visit this site anymore', because all I read is this kinda "crap" I wil now log out' "for ever"........

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Rod Brown » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:55 pm

Bassrman, this is a good subject that should be addressed.

Paul has a good point. One of the guys at weigh in today said had two good areas and he still did well but his Co's the first and second day caught 23lbs at these two areas. If just one of those days that pro had an observer that could not fish, there might have been some good fish for him there today, but he said it was fished out.

Take a guy like Paul that has key areas that might hold one or two big fish and his co catches one or both of them, those fish are gone. But if he goes there with an observer that can't fish, he can work it more efficiently and get those fish.

Just my 2cents.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Quasiboato » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:16 am

This was copied from the "Co-angler etiquette " section on the FLW website
http://www.flwoutdoors.com/fishing-arti ... etiquette/

* Never throw on a pro's “raised fish.” If a pro misses a fish, do not throw in on top of the location where he missed it. As most anglers realize, sometimes a missed fish will strike again. Trying to catch a pro's raised fish before he can cast back to it is considered an unethical cheap shot.

* Never throw over a pro's line unless he says it is okay to do so. Pros pay a much higher entry fee to control the boat and have the first casts. Intentionally casting over a pro's line undermines the principle.

Maybe it would be worth the time to print a copy of this co-angler "Etiquette section",
high-lite these two key bullets.then laminate the page and have your co-angler read before
take off each morning.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Tobey » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:54 am

Paul,
I suppose having an observer rather than a co-angler on the back could unlevel the playing field but wouldn't it be just as unfair to leave paid anglers at the dock because some inconsiderate people couldn't find the time to make a phone call and tell them they couldn't make it after paying their full entry? I understand there were some late entries this time but this situation could also arise if all anglers paid before the deadline. It's a lose lose situation no matter how you look at it.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Terry G. » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:24 am

This is such an easy fix; and , it requires no money and very little effort:

Every Co-angler has to have their money in to FLW before the start of the tournament. FLW's current no refund policy sucks. They should allow entry Co-angler fees to be transferable. Co's who can't make it will attempt to find someone to take their spot and recoup some of their cash; or, maybe they will find a pro that is short of cash and would get in the game. Either way FLW is out zero dollars and may actually gain a boat or two.

There are plenty of people who would hang out and be willing to fish in a pre-paid co-angler position. In fact I would bet that they would have so many Co's on stand by that they would have to conduct a drawing. They have the back seat paid for, so what difference does it make to them who fishes in it.

The argument that folks would pay the entry fee in masses and not show up would be absurd. Most folks who don't show have personal issues that are more important then $400.00, but doesn't meet FLW's refund criteria.

I'm also a shared weight fan. It would virtually eliminate the back seating problem that tends to occur way too often; and, is a major complaint by co-anglers.

Just a thought...or two.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Double Bogey » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:39 am

littlebailey wrote:Who here thinks its fair for FLW to put observers on the boat with guys that are fishing as a pro? Just wanted to know if its fair of them to do? Or should they shut the pros down that tried to sign up at the event because they lagged and didint sign up till they found fish?


No. No. Yes, if they signed up at meeting. I don't see a "fair" way to fix this. Has this ever happened before? Never heard of co's not showing up after paying. When pro's bomb on day one and call in sick on day two they should have an "observer pro" take the co's out on the lake. Looks like there were less observers on day two, good thing for some co's that they let those pro's stay or someone would have been left at the dock. I'm sure they only left because they knew the co's had boats to jump on, but co's do get left sometimes.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby kb » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:25 am

For you co-anglers wondering if you should fish these events there is a good hidden story here that has only been barely touched on. Ricky Shabazz had a crappy first day and knew it was Clear Lake and he was out of it looking at all those 20 pound bags on the leader board, then along comes this excited 17 year old Travis Bounds that got to experience leading early in the weigh in, was in the top ten of the co's and he was drawn with Ricky for day 2.

Ricky I am sure fished on day 2 just as hard as if he was in the top 10, he caught a respectable bag and made a personal recovery at least but more important he made sure the kid caught fish, gave him some baits and now that 17 year old has a second place trophy, $4000 and a good idea of how you do things when he becomes a pro.

Good job Shabazz!!! and better job Travis........That guys is one of the stories that you never hear.

Richard Dobyns weighs in 22 pounds on day two, wins the AoY and everyone shakes his hand, his partner that day (sorry I don't have his name) didn't weigh in a fish, but the first thing he told Gary D was wow your kid is good and I learned so much today.....I am sure that guy just wanted to stay out of Rich's way and make sure his netting was perfect.....oh Rich didn't have a fish in the boat at 10:30 so I bet he wasn't alot of fun to be fishing with!!!!!

funny how after every Pro-am there is that group of "that is why I would never fish as a co" posts...how about some stories from the co's talking about some of the good experiences!!!!

The only other option Paul is every pro has to bring their own co-angler, your co doesn't show or leaves you are out of the event. This works but leaves too many co's out of the events because they don't know a pro that will let them tag along. I see your point but it has happened for years and shared weight isn't the answer I have seen directors pull guys out from under Redbud park benches at 5:00am and make them fishing observers.... :roll:

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Re: FLW question????

Postby rickyshabazz » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:55 am

Great post KB-were you in my boat on Friday

That's why we all fish these tournaments- to learn about ourselves and pay it forward.

90% of the people you draw become friends for life.

I just hope the kid helps me around when I get your age lol
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One point you are all missing...

Postby Rich hamilton » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:46 pm

FLW is a BUSINESS.

They need to have someone in the boat for two reasons 1) Death = Liability 2) Cheating= Liability. So at times whatever warm body will do as long as they are breathing and at least have clothes on.

They cannot run their business unless they have the minimum covered. Make sense? Bailey, as far as your point goes, it is well taken and I wish you would have made the cut. I still steam over a similar incident on Shasta that resulted in just losing a check so I can imagine how you must feel.

I normaly bust my fanny to make sure every partner in my boat catches a limit. That was the old me. Now if a co-angler pulls the crap I have witnessed in these tournaments I have a game plan to handle that particular situation. Unfortunately times have changed and the 'friendly I want to learn" co-angler days are over. I agree with what Ricky and KB say about how the experience "should" be but in my honest opinion times have changed and if you do not make it perfectly clear to the co-angler you will be taken advantage of in one way or the other.

My fishing survival does not depend on sponsorship so I am trying to be as up front as I can here. I would like for our sport to grow and I realize I am being contradictory here but what I am saying is the truth. Until we get back to being professional and having non professional's be respectful of water, information etc it will continue down this ugly path. Can you imagine spending an entire day at Clear lake putting a co-angler on bed fish and actually backing in so he could be on top of them, spending $140 in fuel and basically made it so the individual could go to the championship and have him not pay a penny for gas after the event?

That very guy fished as a "Professional" at this last tournament. not good folks...
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Steve Reed » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:30 pm

I see what Paul is saying and agree that it could absolutely be considered a disadvantage.

Then again, there's also the flip side...

Art Ferguson won an event due to his Co-angler finding a hidden brush pile.
Jason Christie won an event where his Co-angler caught a 5 lber that had come unbottoned at the boat.
There are two or three wins in the last year where the Co-angler "left a few baits in the boat"

I think we can all agree there are times a co-angler can be a disadvantage, possibly even cost some guys their tournament win, but the principle was that professional anglers had signed up and wanted to pay their money to fish the event. Turning them away would be wrong, it would decrease the payout, and possibly look bad for our western series if pros had to be turned away.

One question I would ask is if observers netted any fish. If so, I believe that would be a rules violation. Not sure, but I believe I heard another organization make that very clear to the observer.

Btw, good tournament Paul! Nice second day charge!
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Re: FLW question????

Postby WON BASSIN » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:27 pm

This would have been my approach to the issue....

My opinion... If the observer was told they could not fish.. The TD or organization should have explained the format to the observer, and had them fish the event as any angler would. Every angler I know, man or woman is competitive, and they should have mimicked what the other co's were doing, to be absolutely fair!
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Jim V.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Jim V. » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:30 pm

Dr. Shabazz is a class act.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby Gary Dobyns » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:33 pm

Here are a few facts for you guys. There was 4 observers on day 1 and 3 observers on day 2. They were fishing observers. It's possible that they did not fish....possible, I don't know. What I do know is they were never told NOT to fish. They were put in the boat to be fishing observers. I just made the call to make sure because it did not make sense to me. We have one circuit out in the west drawing numbers and some of you guys want to beat it down. What is FLW supposed to do? There were 60 pre-signed Co's for this event that did not fish. You want FLW to send Pro's home? That's a brilliant idea. We need numbers, not piss off paid entrants. Bailey you didn't catch enough weight to make the cut. You ask a loaded question on this site and here we go. You are a young pro with a good name, posts like this does not help you in the industry and I'm sure you're planning on a long career. You need FLW here in the west.

Here is another point. You may draw an aggressive pain in the a$$ Co angler that makes you life hell for a day. There are about 10 of these in every event. I call them professinal Co anglers. I have flat lost 2 events because of these guys. The other 120-140 Co's are there to compete, learn, and to catch fish, but they don't cast over you or in front of you. If you draw the a$$ hole Co angler that casts over your line all day, reeling your bait in all day and your competitors draw guys that fish behind them, you are at a real disadvantage.

Any time you are dealing with Pro's and Co's it's a match up problem for the circuits. They try and do the best they can.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby WON BASSIN » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:58 pm

Gary has some great points as he should. He has been involved with just about every circuit there is or has been. I do not believe this topic was started to bash anyone or any circuit. It was a question as to how they made a decisions during the start of the event. As I and others mentioned, there are many factors involved, especially at the enth hour.

I know when I got started I received many phone calls regarding some of Won Bass's rules, regulations and standards. I took a deep look into every position that was presented to me at the time, and made decisions that I felt would satisfy the masses, and be fair to everyone. I believe that this is the way things get done. It is a nearly imposable to satisfy everyone, but you can sure give it a try!
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Re: FLW question????

Postby dwise » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:01 pm

My two cents...

I've been a Co angler in more than a few WON Bass tournaments and I think given the situation FLW should go to a shared weight system. That way if a Pro doesn't have a CO, he can choose to either not fish, or fish alone. If he chooses to fish alone, he will make the decision knowing up front that he's up against two sticks to his one. An observer should be placed in the boat but not allowed to fish or net the Pro's fish.

In a shared weight system there wouldn't be any back seating by the Pro, nor frustration if the CO catches the big fish, etc. It's a team effort and it makes a long day on the water more fun for both.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby littlebailey » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:47 pm

Gary i got nothin but love for you........But i dont really care what people think of me or if FLW likes my comments or not. I fish because i love it and because i love to compete. We all know everyone on here reads too far into things but thats life and i cant control how people react. I do know i made a lot of folks aware of the issue and that was my point. If people dont like me for who i am, then i dont need em anyway. FLW isnt going anywhere because of these posts. If they do Ill quit, cause ill feel bad.Plus this industry doesnt help you, they just make money off you. ive been sposored for other sports. Its an actual sponsorship where they set a budget for you and you cant go over. Here in this industry a sponsorship is you only pay 65 dollars for certain items and ill give you a shirt. this industry is a joke and always will be. Thats why i chose to speak my mind because you cant really burn bridges when all the bridges really want to do is take your money. :D

PS Gary: This has nothing to do with me making the cut. Why you had to go and make yourself feel better by putting me down is beyond me. Your bigger than that and supposed to be a roll model.
Last edited by littlebailey on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Garrettt » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:35 pm

I don't think its fair at all.

2 questions;

did the fishing observers pony any cash up?

did the pro pony any cash up?

Hasn't the FLW turned CO's and Pro's away in the past? Fishing solo is a huge advantage and you cannot argue that.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby sTony » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:57 am

Wouldn't all this be moot if FLW had the observers fish?


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Re: FLW question????

Postby S. Bailey » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:08 am

yes its unfair...
yes FLW has turned away hundreds of pro's in the past....
yes it was not a bright idea to put "observers" in the boat....
just my opinion
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Gary Dobyns » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:33 am

[quote="Garrettt"]I don't think its fair at all.

2 questions;

did the fishing observers pony any cash up?

did the pro pony any cash up?

Hasn't the FLW turned CO's and Pro's away in the past? Fishing solo is a huge advantage and you cannot argue that.[/quote]

To answer your question Garrett.

No the observers did NOT pony any cash up, BUT FLW put an entry into the pot for them. They could not fish for money but there was an entry fee in for them.

Every Pro paid an entry fee

FLW turned Pro's away at Shasta because they had a full field. Yes there have been co's turned away, if there are not enough Pro's then there is no boat available for them to compete in. Yes, fishing solo would be a huge advantage, BUT NO ONE in FLW fishes solo. Having a fishing observer is not solo.

Paul, you may not care what people think of you ( up to a point I agree with you ) but you and your bother have earned a name in fishing. You do care about the sport because you compete and fish to win. I'm pretty sure you're like me, you love to compete and need it. At a time when our circuit numbers are down, they could use your help. I believe you're buddies with Billy Egan and know he'd love to have some help with Won Bass numbers.

The problem with this site is guys let positive topics slide by but jump on the negitive stuff right away. Even if they've never competed, don't really know squat about the sport, probably barely fish, but they will jump on a negitive post. For some reason WB is worse than other sites around the country. The west gets labeled as trouble makers, cry babies, a$$ holes, or whatever your favorite wording might be. They already think everyone from CA is a doper and gay, or at best a fruit cake. I get asked 100's of times a year...."What's wrong with you guys?"...or "What's wrong with the west? " Paul I have nothing against you, you're a STUD angler and have earned it. I don't think you started a slam thread just to do it. BUT, your name is something in this sport. Your posts will be looked at harder. I ask you to please becareful as I think you care a HELL OF A LOT ABOUT FISHING!!

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Re: FLW question????

Postby barse41 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:55 pm

offduty wrote:I certainly wish all the Pro anglers the best. After reading this thread I have no desire to be a Co because it sounds like you pay to have a Pro keep you from getting any good angles or a decent shot at a good spot. Finding good water is extremely important in bass fishing. Maybe I am wrong I do consider that but I have fished behind others before and they certainly get first shot at the best spots as they are in control of the boat and use that to there advantage and the back seaters frustration. This is something I try not to do when I take a buddy fishing because it does not seem cool. Of course I realize when your playing for money ethics can take a beating. I do not feel it would be fair to have Pro's with and some without Co's, that is not a level playing field.

Just sayin


Dont let that stop you. You should try it at least once. I thought the same thing, but I did my first one this weekend, Didnt agree with some things the pro did. I guess thats part of the game as a backseater. Still, I had a blast.
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Re: FLW question????

Postby WON BASSIN » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:47 pm

Rich - OffDuty

You know me pretty well.... I would try a Pro/Am out for sure. You will have the time of your life. I guarantee it!
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Re: FLW question????

Postby Gary Dobyns » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:00 pm

[quote="WON BASSIN"]Rich - OffDuty

You know me pretty well.... I would try a Pro/Am out for sure. You will have the time of your life. I guarantee it![/quote]

I'm with Billy here.

Some pros are better than others, BUT the better ones have shiot days and the not as good ones have great days. Most will treat you well and you'll have a great day. There are pain in the butt pros, and pain in the butt cos. These guys just like being that way and are that way in life. 95% of the guys are awesome. They will treat you well and it's a great time. Even the pain in the butt guys you can learn something from, so it's still a good day. Don't let forum chatter sway you away. Try it for yourself.

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Re: FLW question????

Postby jiggin4bass » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:23 pm

Where do i sign up as a co angler i want to learn how too jig fish from theses pro's :D

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Re: FLW question????

Postby kb » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:47 pm

NAH!!! nothing for a jig fishing/making expert like you to learn from any of the pro's fishing on the co side...all you can do is bring your $1000, your boat load of jigs, your boat and your happy A$$ to Shasta in January and show us all how it is done!!!!!

Sign ups begin the first of November at www.wonbass.com and www.flwoutdoors.com

See ya there!!!!!
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Re: FLW question????

Postby jiggin4bass » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:58 pm

shasta in jan will let see i think i can get away with throwing 3/4 oz football head jigs on 4,6,8 lbs test line and id rather fish out of the back of the boat its less work catching fish :D


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