My issue with Yamamoto, Snag proof and other similar tournys

[Levy]

While these tournaments can be very fun and certainly a single or maybe 2 very good anglers out of many can make a nice profit from these tournies; the vast majority have no shot at making money much less then breaking even and I am only talking tourny fee's. Why do all that fish these types of Swag only tourny's allow yourselves to be fleeced by the org and title sponsor?

Let's be clear, my expectation from any tourny where I am forced to buy and use thier lures is to payback at least 95% but quite frankly with all of the promotion of thier products and increased sales due to only being allowed to use thier specific lure the payout should be well over 100%.

Let's look at the recent Big Bass tourny, 325 entered, $150 for both day's = $48,750 in entry fee's. (yes I know not all entered both days but I imagine that most did so my numbers are close) The tourny paid out a total of $31,000. That is roughly a $17K take by the org and sponsor??? That is a about a 60% payback percentage????

I do realize that there are expenses and I also agree the org needs to make a profit but this is ridiculous. Again we are forced to buy thier baits and the sponsor recieves a massive amount of free advertisement so why should we pay them for the priveledge? How many extra dollars in increased bait sales have occured over the past few weeks ($1,000, 10,000, $20,000) who knows. The free advertising and word of mouth for thier products is surely even worth more to the sponsor then the increased sales.

I am sure some of you are going to hate my post and state that all fishermen do is complain. I say bring it on, without taking a stand and speaking our minds things would/will never change.

Hopefully western bass keeps this post up so the discussion can occure, but I will understand and be ready for John's email should it be deleted.

Jon Levenson

[21farms]

when i read that there were 325 participants, i took that as 325 participants over two days. in other words, 325 $75/per day entries.

[Rich hamilton]

At this point in the economy I am just glad that there are tournaments to fish! I always support GY and am glad he is sponsoring the event RR

[slkric]

Let's be clear, my expectation from any tourny where I am forced to buy and use thier lures

Jon you're not forced to do anything. Either fish it or not. But don't bitch about it. Why do you think 325 people fished it??? because it was a fun event!!!!

Rick

[kmah]

$17k profit?

How do they pay for the TV shows airtime and production costs?

staff for 2 days, rooms, meals. Etc. times how ever many staff they had there.

Seminars, radio, magazine ads etc.

Don't forget about the Jeep they have to buy for the championship.

Yes, I acknowledge that there is money made by a business. Is that something new? For a business to start something to make something.

It has been so long since I have seen people excited and hanging out after the event was over. People were talking, sharing stories, and just having fun. There was food, music, prizes, etc. Alan and I had a great time for 150/each.

An event like this doesn't happen over night. I'd say months of hard work and planning.

Regardless, for me it was my first time fishing in an event like this. I had a blast with my expendable entertainment funds. Alan Fong and I will continue fishing this as long as he can hang for two days in a row.

I appreciated the format and the fun.

Ken Mah

[Kevin]

This post is unbelievable!
No wonder tournament fishing is in such a funk. With an attitude such as yours (Jon), I highly recommend sticking to a Bass club or just go fun fishing. <Sarcasm On> The orgs, Yamamoto, and Snag Proof will all go under since they make so much money on your $75 entry. <Sarcasm Off>

[Dan Pollard]

Jon Whats wrong with making a profit? I agree with Ken Mah excellent value for your intertainment dollar.
Would you critisize Bill Gate for making to much money inspite of the fact that people like his products, and are willing to pay for them! I say more power to Yamamoto, and Snag Proof lets have more of these great events.
And Jon don't worry you do not have to show up. Stay home and save your money. You will be able to watch it on tv for nothing

[Levy]

All of you sheep crack me up. I have no issue with the org or them making a profit, I am just questioning the anglers willing to bet their money for such a low return on investment.

Why are you pimping thier products? Sorry, I am nobody's bitch, I will promote your product if you are paying me to do so or provide said baits for free to use in tourny otherwise you better make it worth it for me to fish using your product. 60% avg. return is a joke and certainly does not make it worth my wild to fish. BTW, I did fish this past weekend and had a great time with my boy's not fishing this particular tourny, just like I will have a great time this weekend fishing the Tracy Basss TOC. (these guys pay back 100% )

If you look at Bassfest and other big bass tourny's held elsewhere, they pay much much more then 100% payback and the big bass tournies have many times more then 325 participants.

Remember these sponsors are getting massive amounts of free advertising/marketing and are making more money on increased bait sales both before and after the event. They should have to pay for this, which is why the payouts are so ridiculous. If you are content with giving away 40% of your money and buy all of those extra baits by all means feel free, I just won't do it until things change.

You all talk about having fun, I have fun at every tournament I fish and I have fished more then 100 of them. Fun is not the issue, as if I am fishing I assure you I always have a good time.

[BigJeff]

If you're ASSuming $17K profit I can guarantee you are wrong. Any organization has COST associated with putting together and hosting any fishing event. That cost is included in the percent they take that you want to call profit. Its not all profit. Stop bitching and fish. If you don't want to fish the tournaments then don't fish but stop dragging these people trying to grow the industry down into the dirt.

[DL]

I read this yesterday...and almost punched my monitor.

I think Abraham Lincoln said it best:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt."

Levy, you need to get a hobby to do at home while you aren't fishing...Robin Hood is doing just fine taking from the rich tournament anglers and giving to the poor ones that want something for nothing...

[Levy]

If you're ASSuming $17K profit I can guarantee you are wrong. Any organization has COST associated with putting together and hosting any fishing event. That cost is included in the percent they take that you want to call profit. Its not all profit. Stop bitching and fish. If you don't want to fish the tournaments then don't fish but stop dragging these people trying to grow the industry down into the dirt.

pay attn to the post. I could care less how much the org that runs the events makes, it is the swag sponsors that are making the money and it is much more then 17K.

The beauty of America is that I can bitch all I want and there is nothing you can do about it. I can also call a spade a spade so if you don't like it don't read it.

That is all!!

[Terry Smith]

Anyone want an ICE COLD COORS LIGHT????? and lest go fishing!!!!!!!

[FROGvsBASS]

It is a promotional event, not a tournament. If the big prize is determined by a random drawing it's not a tourny. I see your point Jon but I think most guys see this as a way to drown a senko with the kid or somebody like that on the cheap.

[Noluk]

You stated in your original post that you hoped it stayed up for awhile so there could be a discussion. Your subsequent posts seemed a bit more defensive. Are you looking for an argument or a discussion? In a tiny way I agree with you. Yamamoto did receive some great publicity for this event on all the flyers they put up, websites hosting the information, handouts at tackle stores and the staff helping keep the hundreds of participants flowing smoothly. Not to mention media coverage that received press releases and other professionally developed promotional material.... See where this is going yet? It was an event designed to promote a brand. They probably lost money on the event but more than recouped it in bait sales, which seems to be your complaint.

You posted that you are not anybody's free B***** because you refuse to promote something for a small payback. So how is that working out for you? Free boat, free truck to tow boat, free outboard, free tires etc... So it is all good for you to pay between 100k- 5k for the newest or oldest boat and truck combo and advertise for free but 150.00 bucks to fish with 300+ other fisherman is a bad thing. Advertising in the sport of fishing is whacked. Many anglers PAY for a GLoomis hoodie and happily wear it every time they go fishing without any compensation at all. How can that "cost" be compared to a touring pro sponsorship? Someone in the business once told me that the fastest way to make a small fortune in the fishing business was to start with a large one (fortune). At the end of the day, Yamamoto has to make a product that we want to buy. Said product must work well enough that enough people will buy said product at a price that generates a chain of profits for the sellers and manufacturers to include parts, taxes, labor and overhead. To be blunt, no one is comparing Gary Yamamoto's fortune to Bill Gates or Donald Trump. (And I heard that most of his money comes from beef not fishing baits but I cannot substantiate that) This event was far more about putting something together for anglers to enjoy and have fun at than it was a calculated money grab shell game. If they wanted to grab as much profit as they could, they can just raise the price of senko's 15 cents a bag and not put on any events with a lot less effort and probably more profit.

I would like you to consider the cost of your entertainment. A movie costs 10 bucks and last about 90 minutes. This tournament (which I did not get to fish being from Socal but sure wanted too and strongly considered driving up for) cost 150 bucks for both days and gave you around 18 fishing hours best case. Fishing broke down to a bit over 8 bucks an hour and a movie costs you around 6 bucks an hour. I think I know which one I will choose most of the time.

George Fedor

[Rick G]

As a long time tackle retailer i can tell you 2 things that are plastic in this business that sell like candy. Yamamoto products, and Roboworm. Derby or no derby, Yamamoto's baits sell all day long and are being used at all times down here by most anglers. Wish there was a derby like that down here. Great job Vince! Rick G.

[Robb R]

who cares if an organization makes money on a tournament or promotional event , if you don't like the
way it's run or people who organize it , don't bother going .
All I know is this , when Gary Yamamoto passes on , and he gets to the pearly gates of heaven and God ask's him
what he has done with his life ----- all he has to say is "I invented the Senko " and God will say ----wow!! --- you made so many people happy with catchin all those bass --- come on in !!!!
tight lines
Robb

[kraetzer]

Ok, the comparison between going to a movie and going fishing - really?? I think there are some additional costs involved in going fishing (just saying)

[Levy]

You posted that you are not anybody's free B***** because you refuse to promote something for a small payback. So how is that working out for you? Free boat, free truck to tow boat, free outboard, free tires etc...
I would like you to consider the cost of your entertainment. A movie costs 10 bucks and last about 90 minutes. This tournament (which I did not get to fish being from Socal but sure wanted too and strongly considered driving up for) cost 150 bucks for both days and gave you around 18 fishing hours best case. Fishing broke down to a bit over 8 bucks an hour and a movie costs you around 6 bucks an hour. I think I know which one I will choose most of the time.
George Fedor

To be clear I have no issue with Yamamoto products or any others that sponsor these types of tourny's. (I love and use most of them). The only issue I have is the the payback for a tourny in which you are required to promote and use thier products.

George, in response to you, yes I am happy for this discussion to continue.
You ask how not being someone's promotional bitch is working out for me, I am glad you asked because it is actually working out quite well. I have been tourny fishing for about 7 years and in that time all of my tournaments entry fee's, baits as well as gas and other expenses have all been paid for with my tournament winnings. The reason for this is simply picking the tournaments which offer the most bang for my buck as well as preperation. Had I not been so choosy and simply fished anything that was available I feel my results would have been the similar but obviuosly my earning's would not be nearly as much. I am not trying to be a tourny pro and make a living from fishing, I am simply trying to feed my addiction with as little expense as possible. Matter of fact the downpayment on my boat was paid for by tourny winning's as well.

This is not a entertainment issue as I will fish anyway whether or not I am in a tourny but why invest an extra $150 (pay someone $8 additional an hour using your example) where I am basically giving somebody 40% of my money off the top? I am sorry many of you don't agree with this but I prefer to keep my money vs. giving it away. If you feel differently please let me know and I will send you my address so you can send me the money you are willing to givaway.

[Randy Walker]

**I have been tourny fishing for about 7 years and in that time all of my tournaments entry fee's, baits as well as gas and other expenses have all been paid for with my tournament winnings**
First of all, I normally do not reply and get brought in on posts like this… but here it goes…

Levy... your above stats are very impressive! Not joking...to fish for 7 years basically for free is amazing! Good for you... there are tons of anglers including myself that would love to be able to make that statement... but that is not going to be the luck or skill of most anglers.
I personally was not able to attend this event but did fish the Berkley events when out here and have fished the Snag Proof events for many years... There is just one thing to keep in mind when it comes to these types of specialty events... they are meant to be more fun then a means to make money. As you said, there are only a small handful of folks that make money during these events... and you know what, each angler understands that and is okay with it... or else they would not fish them. To each their own! You hand pick stuff to fish which is smart and for your own reasons, others are doing the same things... just because it's not what you are not supporting or a fan of does not mean that it's wrong for others to do it and have to take a bashing for just wanting to go out and have some fun! It's not all about money for each person... and that's okay. You just got to be happy with what you fish... why waste valuable time and energy in a post like you took the time to type out? So many folks have made very good statements and you have also made points one can think about…But really, do you think that your fellow angler’s don’t understand what they are getting themselves into when they fish these types of events? They know exactly what’s going on… they’re not dumb! It’s not like you are really bringing something to the attention of hundreds of anglers that are going to thank you for the information that you have provided…

If you would have put your post into the form of a true and legit question or poll of why folks fish these… then that would be different. You instead border on bashing those that want to fish these types of events… not sure why… but it’s just not cool.
Did you happen to fish the Bassfest or know anybody that did? Talk about not winning any money for the amount of anglers that fished… but each angler that signed up knew the entry was going to be low and had to figure that payout was not going to be crazy… but they drew WAY more teams then they thought they would… it was nuts! It was also TONS of fun with food, sponsors, and hundreds of anglers sitting around hanging out talking and spending the day doing what each one loves to do…
I’ll circle back around to what I said first… your stats are amazing! Keep doing what your doing and fish for free… but let others do what they like to do without questioning why and poking jabs out there to orgs and sponsors.
Heck, talking about wasting time... good thing I type fast... hahaha

Good luck fishn'

Randy Walker ~

[Levy]

Randy, thanks for your response. I agree these tournaments are for fun. IMHO all tournaments should be fun but since we are all not rich money should be a consideration as well.

I am not convinced that most of the anglers out there really understand how much money they are giving away which is why I started this post in the first place. They see the awards and money given away but few realize how much money is generated not paid back for these things. I am not meaning to bash anyone as I am just wondering why people would accept this as it is something I cannot accept and will try to change as I also enjoy fishing these events.

You mentioned Bassfest which was a fantastic event I did fish. The reason I fished it was because it had a low entry fee and most importantly it offered a payback of nearly 100% (actually I think it might have been higher) I also look at similar events held elsewhere outside of california and those same Big Bass events are sponsor driven and pay much more the 100% payback and have far more participants that we have here in our specialty events.

I am not looking for anything for free from anyone, I will put in the work to try to place high enough to win money but if I do my part I want the org/sponsors to do thier part which is to not skim my money from the top. These tournies are driven by sponsor dollars and should not be financed by mine.

[g-man]

Serious question to Anglers that fish said events.

I understand that with the low entry it will draw good numbers of anglers, but is it all the give outs, raffles, prizes that drive you to fish it?? Because its surely not the payout. Not bashing just wondering what all the hype for the anglers that do fish these events is?

For me i'd prefer no give outs, prizes, hoopla, etc. I'd rather see a better payout!

As far as costs to run these events? the staff gets comped hotel rooms, food, and get paid? Chit I've been staffing for another org. for years and never got any of that WTF??

And the comment about how they pay for their TV shows, radio shows, Ads, etc. Surely thats not coming outta the Anglers pockets/ hurting the payout RIGHT? Cause thats what it sounded like to me. Just wondering..

[Rich hamilton]

One more thing about GY and company. He is a great fisherman and stand up guy. I was lucky enough to fish with him at the U.S. open and learn from the master. I only spent one day with the man but for you folks who know me believe when I say the dude is the real deal.
Off the water he invited my entire family to dinner with him and his family and made me and my family feel at home with his guests from Japan. Do me a favor and thank this guy for his contribution to the sport instead of wondering about the big 17K profit. GY gives more away to charity in a day then that petty 17K number!

I will say that we should be thanking these folks instead of bashing them.

[kitjack]

It's very likely that the number of participants means the number of people who paid in total over two day, so the sponsor may have lost money and put money into this event.

In any case they had no guarantee going in that many people would show up, yet they went ahead and put on this tournament and were I'm sure prepared to lose a great deal of money in order to do this promotion. We need more tackle companies getting involved and not less, so your just way off base to criticize them for their involvement.

Anyway, they take a risk, do everything right, and are rewarded with a nice showing and possibly the promotion resulted in them selling more of their product. That's sort of the whole point with a promotion.

If they had done a poor job and not many people showed up, then everyone would complain about that too. It would have a great payback and be a "great investment", but the truth is the investment and return are exactly the same either way. You paid $75 a day and you won money and prizes as advertised. You do not get more for your $75 if less people show up.

You rarely every hear guys who win tournaments complain about bad paybacks or good investments, because if you win it's always a great investment and good return on your money. It's likewise a "bad investment" for the vast majority of anglers, but obviously this is not really an investment or is winning a check at a bass tournament just blind luck, so the odds really have little to do with it. For most people entering a bass tournament is simply the cost of competing, and it's fun and this is what they like to do.

In this case they took a big risk by putting up all the payback money and funds needed to run this event, and had to hope their efforts would result in people showing up to fish. They paid out as promised, and the fact that it was a success will probably mean they will do it again, and even bigger, next year. That's a good thing in my book.

[yjjustforme]

You guys know he's just trolling and loving all the responses and controversy he's stirring up. Don't feed into guys like this. This is what makes us west coast guys look bad!!!

[thukidad]

All I got to say is there isnt enough 10k check in cali tourney. Only downfall I see is the drawing for 10k.. I say after last weigh in all top weigh in angler got 3-4 hours to bring in there biggest catch.. that would make it 10x more exciting than a drawing

[Noluk]

Great response Levy. After considering the issue I think we all missed one factor that really had no bearing on the payout percentages. The most important number is the 300 plus fisherman fishing. Obviously these people are not fishing every event that they can find. They showed up for a relatively small entry fee, an expectation of fun, and a "chance" to win some money. I suspect many of the people entered and did not expect to cash a check. I suspect many of them will only fish this event and one or two others all year long. That is the magic of the event. I wish that it could be created at multiple events all year long but it really doesn't happen. The questions that really matters is what was the magic draw that made 300 plus people show up and fish. Obviously some people are orientated to the financial side of tournament fishing and others are doing it for different reasons and hoping to catch a check every now and then. I don't know if these two sides will ever see eye to eye... but they all do get to compete at a specialty event like this. Decent money (no matter the payback percentages), low entry and unique formats... I think the entry fee really figures into it but that is how it was marketed. If it had been a 300 dollar entry per two man team do you think they would have had the same turnout?

As a side note cost-wise comparing a movie to fishing.. sorry time was my intended factor but have you ever bought popcorn drinks and candy for 7 nieces and nephews at a theater??? Hello I will take fishing every time!

[Jason Borofka]

My wife and I always have a blast fishing the Yamamoto. Even though we only went home with one check she is still bragging to her friends about how much fun we had last weekend. I want thank Vince and the whole crew for putting on another great event. See you at the Snag proof!

OH and don't listen to the the Haters like Jon they are just starving for attention!

Jason..

[swimbait]

What's a senko?

[Cooch]

What's a senko?

Uh, Angler's Choice team tournament here, March 2004 maybe, you, me, CruiserHaven , 9X 021, black with blue flake......first pass NADA, then you brought out the Biosonix unit, next pass, 24lbs in the boat! Ring a bell now? HAR!

[Cooch]

Jon, this should be the least of your issues concerning tournaments. A far greater issue at the top, is the fact that unlike most other competative sports, with the exception of the BASS Elites, the FLW Tour events, some big Walleye events and these unique shark tournamets, which less than .10% of the angling population has a chance to fish in, anglers are always competing for their own money. Somewhere along the line in one of your later posts, you mention something to this effect. THAT, should be the title topic of yer post my friend.

Specialty events such has the BBC, no matter who the Title sponsor is, are an oppurtunity to introduce and bring the average angler into the world of competative fishing. The bottom line is really not about, "How much money can I make that day", be it the angler, the org or the companies involved. It's about growing the sport and the potential winnings that can be afforded us all down the line. Bass fishing does not garner the huge sponsor dollars from with in it's own industry, much less the billion dollar corporations out there today that sponsor other types of venues. The reason, the lack of numbers, plain and simple.

I say KUDOS to the Yamamoto's, SnagProofs, Persuaders, River2Sea, Berkeleys, BlackDogs, Viper Boats, Anglers Press and other unmentioned companies with in our industry for stepping to the plate and at least attempting to do these types of specialty events that indeed are drawing more numbers into the seats than our conventional tournament Orgs. Attempting to derail that process pointed directly at the companies who are out there busting their asses to make a better widget, is counterproductive. To refer to these folks as "swag sponsors" and the anglers and posters as "all you Sheep", is even more disputable in light of the fact you stated, "I cannot accept and will try to change this". What is it really, that you are trying to change, by making a post such as this, pointing at the few select companies who are trying to make a change, and calling out those anglers who do participate?

I comprehend your point. RickG, Kenny Mah, BigJeff Huth and JasonB, all whom brought out excellent points, get it even more, and these are very repsected anglers on the tournament scene who've been around a long time and fully understand where we're at. This was one of the major reason I quite fishing tournaments back in 2002, we fish for our own money and I disagree wholey with that. The few events I do fish and participate in now, are indeed these specialty events, for they are geared and set up, to make the change a lot of us are looking for. It takes time and the past few years with these specialty events, we are seeing better numbers. As these numbers grow more, so will the benifits to the anglers. These specialty events are vital to that progress in my mind, for the over all well being of tournament fishing. Support those folks and direct the displeasures of the way things are, at those folks who indeed are not trying to make a better widget for us.

[swimbait]

Heh. Just trying to lighten the mood. I remember fishing the Clear Lake WON proam as a AAA in 2000 when the senko first came out. Watching Mike Reynolds repairing a pack of 5in green pumpkin senkos in the parking lot because you couldn't get more. I thought it was the stupidest looking lure on earth and couldn't figure why fish would eat them. Maybe that's why I finished 121st place

[Ceaser]

I think the yamamoto big bass and the berkley tourney before it with multiple weigh-ins a day actually offer the average guy a better chance at cashing a check. You can catch one lucky fish and pay for your entry and gas. with that many spots paid it offers more anglers a chance to make $$ and if your on a good bite you can cash multiple checks a day and have a good weekend. I think the format is cool and different. While they may not pay out a great percentage, they offer more chances to win money, for more people. if your poundin the big girls you can make a check every hour, if you just pay to go have fun and stumble on a big one you can have a good payday and not even catch a limit. I only fished the first berkley one but we made 4 or 5 checks over two days and cashed over a grand i think.. something like that. No huge ones or great days but we made some bucks and had fun... isnt that what fishing is about? well the fun part anyways.

[myrtle]

Big Fish Caught On 7 Inch Senko If I Remember Correctly 8 Bucks For A Bag $150 Entry $3,000 And Draw For $10,000


Ill Take My Chances

[scottsweet]

Jon,

The one statement that caught my eye..."Why do all that fish these types of Swag only tourny's allow yourselves to be fleeced by the org and title sponsor?"

Why do you assume anglers are "fleeced?" Do you really think anglers feel they are fleeced? Do you mean that the event was put on with the intent of not ensuring everyone is aware of what is really going on? Why are you so negative? Why did you even make this post? From your other posts, you are suggesting the only reason you fish a tournament is to make money? Really? And you are in the red through and through...sorry man..I don't believe you. I think you are using "Jon Levenson" justification/rationalization math. BTW, you should probably stop using Yamamoto products since you don't like the way they do business with the intent to "fleece" people to learn and enjoy their products.

Bottom line, we all fish to have fun otherwise why do it. The vast majority of us fish tournaments to have fun with a shot to make some money. Some of us make a run at it as a full time living. VERY few are successful at making a sustainable/comfortable living tournament fishing. There is no "fleecing" going on there...

All I can say, with the economy as it has been for these last many years, is THANK YOU to these great sponsors who step up to put on a great event. I didn't fish it, but if I lived closer I would have. (I am not in the red even though I won a boat ). The event was great because they had LOTS of people who participated and posted some great fun content. Vince and team, thanks for doing a great job!

Yes, Yamamoto sold some more product...that is what capitalism is all about and am grateful they have provided a truly great product for us all. All of the tackle companies are in business to, well, make a profit. They use marketing as a means to generate interest that hopefully results in selling more product. These events are "smart business" because it reaches the anglers directly and the investment/return on investment is probably one of the best for the fishing industry. I hope we see more of them...

So Jon, you might want to think beyond the end of your nose and truly see the forest through the trees. Appreciate what these manufacturers do for us and support them rather than complain. No one is twisting anyone's arm to participate, including yours. You certainly have the right to express your opinion, it is America, but understand that there are always results (good and bad) that can occur afterwards. There could be "collateral damage" after you express your opinion. You certainly got lots of negative responses here...

We all have choices in America and as it appears...MOST people choose to support these events. We don't always CHOOSE tournaments because we solely intend to make money but because...well..they are fun and we all need some FUN in our lives...it is quite healthy even if it costs us a little money to indulge. One thing for sure...indulging in a fishing tournament is much healthier than so many other destructive alternatives...

Tight lines...

[blkdog812]

some promoters are only in it for themselfs and some give back more to/for the anglers.
compare the payouts for similar events, for the amount of people. then figure it out yourself or if you need help, get someone to explain it to you.
if you dont like the payouts, then don't fish the event and come here and complain or question things about the payout.
if those that are in it for themselfs dont have the draw, then the sponsers will look else where for a better person to run these type of events. if you keep fishing it, because its fun and the numbers are there, why would the sponsers look elsewhere.
my .02