Arizona passes tough illegal immigration law

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:38 pm

(Reuters) - Arizona lawmakers passed a controversial immigration bill on Monday requiring police in the state that borders Mexico to determine if people are in the United States illegally, a measure critics say is open to racial profiling.
U.S.

Lawmakers in the Arizona Senate voted 17 to 11 to approve the bill, widely regarded as the toughest measure yet taken by any U.S. state to curb illegal immigration.

The state's House of Representatives approved the measure last week. Governor Jan Brewer, a Republican, has five days to veto the bill or sign it into law.

Immigration is a bitterly fought issue in the United States, where some 10.8 million illegal immigrants live and work in the shadows, although it has been eclipsed in recent months by a healthcare overhaul and concern over the economy.

The law requires state and local police to determine the status of people if there is "reasonable suspicion" that they are illegal immigrants and to arrest people who are unable to provide documentation proving they are in the country legally.

It also makes it a crime to transport someone who is an illegal immigrant and to hire day laborers off the street.

"I believe handcuffs are a wonderful tool when they're on the right people," said Russell Pearce, the Republican state senator who wrote the bill.

We want to "get them off law enforcement and get them on the bad guys," he told Reuters.

Opponents of the Arizona law, some of whom held a vigil outside Brewer's home on Monday to urge her to veto the measure, say it is unconstitutional and would discriminate against Latinos.

"You cannot tell if a person walking on a sidewalk is undocumented or not ... (so) this is a mandate for racial profiling," said Pablo Alvarado, director of the National Day Laborer Organizing Network.
A
lvarado said his group would call on the federal government to intervene and was considering legal action to overturn the bill.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63I6TU20100419

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:34 pm

More posturing that might result in nothing but the problem does need attention so maybe this will at least garner that attention.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:04 am

They raided Ranch markets here yesterday and found they had 300 illegals as employees. Fired them all pending immigration status. Liberals are too stupid to realize that unemployment in the country could be turned around within months by enforcing hiring sanctions. You can bet that is 300 new jobs for Americans.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:16 am

But Liberals like Greg will come back and say Americans donâ€™t want those jobs but fail to see the reason the illegal Mexican got the job is because it is under the table and below the going rate.

Ringer, Didnâ€™t Juan McCain once say Americans donâ€™t want those jobs but now is jumping up and down to get reelected?

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:34 am

Actually many illegals have jobs that pay excellent wages. They are craftsmen, cabinet makers, auto mechanics and on and on. I know a few that are making over $25 an hour. You can bet many Americans would love those jobs right now. Yes McCain has turned into and anti immigration tough conservative until the election is over then he will morph back to the wimpy, amnesty pushing puke he was last year. I think he is going to lose and it will send shockwaves through republican and democratic elitists.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:15 am

April 22, 2010, 02:58 PM
Looks like 300 honest people in the Phoenix area will have jobs.

Thanks to an "audit", the supermarket found that 300 illegal aliens had provided them with phony documents.

Hopefully, by the end of the day, the 300 will be in custody for fraud, theft and being in this country illegally.

Will California start the process? Why not? Our elected officials took an oath of office to uphold the law--yet our Governor and his administration are refusing to enforce by State and Federal laws. Instead, by not enforcing the law, illegal aliens are stealing up to $10billion from the people of California--along with tens of thousands of jobs.

Why California is in a Great Depression? A major reason is that unlike Arizona, we protect illegal aliens.

What happens when we don't uphold the Laws?

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:27 pm

Start an organization (for profit of course) that keeps track of who is hiring illegals.
Make that list widely known and let the people decide if they knowingly want to support a business that hires illegals. (perhaps the business NOT hiring illegals would provide the financing)

For all the yelling and screaming its a damn few that will put their money where their mouth is and pay a bit more when a cheaper alternative is sitting right next to it. (and if the govts of the world weren't f**cking up economic conditions in their respective countries and international trade in general nobody would have to)
Ultimately, if the people vote FOR hiring illegals by patronizing businesses that they know have illegals working there no is amount of law that will stop it. Just look at prohibition and the war on drugs.

When the people have a demand it will be filled even if the govt wastes billions and squashes huge swaths of liberty trying to stop it.
You can't win a fight against the market but you can make sure everybody loses.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:33 am

Marty wrote:But Liberals like Greg will come back and say Americans donâ€™t want those jobs but fail to see the reason the illegal Mexican got the job is because it is under the table and below the going rate.

Ringer, Didnâ€™t Juan McCain once say Americans donâ€™t want those jobs but now is jumping up and down to get reelected?

Will I. Damn, even I didn't know I'd say that. Sure glad I got you around Marty, sure saves a lot of typing.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:39 am

The Governor just signed the bill into Law! Now there will more illegal coming to California and we are broke!

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:41 pm

Now Obama says we are misguided and he will have his dike in chief Napolitano look into the legality of the new state law. Guess what-it is a mirror of current federal law and the governor signed an executive order to provide training and to make sure no racial profiling occurs. It was nice of you guys to send over a few hundred protestors from S. California to march in our streets. That did a lot of good. Fact is Obama will now push for amnesty and that one issue will insure he is a one term president. With 20% of Americans out of work you can bet plenty of unions and democratic voters are for enforcing hiring sanctions and will be against amnesty. Should be interesting.

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:40 pm

Now Obama says we are misguided and he will have his dike in chief Napolitano look into the legality of the new state law.

So much for state sovereignty eh?

I hope we wont get further fooled into approving the feds stomping on states rights to set their own laws (as it was intended) by heralding the SC decision about guns coming up. As tempting as it is to approve of a judgment in favor of gun rights it would be a bad precedent. I'll say it again, its a trick to further cement the fed's "authority" to override state decisions in the minds of the people.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:22 pm

Already rumours among the illegal community of a mass exodus to a more immigrant friendly state like California. We will be sending 500000 of our finest to you soon.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:21 am

Ringer wrote:We will be sending 500000 of our finest to you soon.

Cool, you're sending the moderates and keeping the illegals then?

COATS · Post by **COATS** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:00 am

To bad the white guys killed off all the indians are we might have been able to vote there a**es out to

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:16 am

COATS wrote:To bad the white guys killed off all the indians are we might have been able to vote there a**es out to

You lost me there.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:26 pm

Greg-we only have 7 moderates and 2 liberals left over here but we will send them with the illegals.

hydro · Post by **hydro** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:26 pm

I can see it now ...... If Arizona goes against Obama's wishes and begins enforcing the new illegal immigration law Obama will send in the National guard to make sure no illegal immigrants get arrested . The same National guard that wasn't available to defend the rights/lives/property of the US citizens living in Arizona.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:17 pm

I was in Phoenix this morning and I talked to quite a few people and they are not crying about this â€“ they like it. In fact my family support it 100%.

Best of all they like the right to carry â€“ you donâ€™t know who has a gun and people are treating each other with respect.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:41 pm

I wish they thought my cousin's wife was carrying. She was visiting her parents in Phoenix and stopped at a pay phone. Two guys stopped and grabbed her purse. Unfortunately she hung on and they dragged her down the street removing her rings while beating her. She was hospitalized over a week with internal and external injuries.

3 California cities made the top 10 safest cities. The number 1 safest city is in CA. None from AZ. In Fact AZ was number 10 of the worst. CA had none in the 10 worst. I think criminals are afraid of us liberals.

http://phoenix.about.com/od/crime/a/dangerous.htm

The 10 Safest Cities

1-San Jose, CA
2-El Paso, TX
3-Honolulu, HI
4-Austin, TX
5-New York, NY
6-Louisville, KY
7-San Diego, CA
8-San Antonio, TX
9-San Francisco, CA
10-Fort Worth, TX

The 10 Most Dangerous Cities

1-Detroit, MI
2-Washington, DC
3-Baltimore, MD
4-Memphis, TN
5-Dallas, TX
6-Philadelphia, PA
7-Columbus, OH
8-Nashville, TN
9-Houston, TX
10-Phoenix, AZ

There were 320 metropolitan areas considered in the study, and the results for the most dangerous follow.

The 25 Most Dangerous Metro Areas

1-Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn, MI
2-Memphis, TN-MS-AR
3-Sumter, SC
4-Fairbanks, AK
5-New Orleans, LA
6-Miami-Dade County, FL
7-Myrtle Beach, SC
8-Las Vegas-Paradise, NV
9-Victoria, TX
10-Florence, SC
11-Stockton, CA
12-Shreveport-Bossier City, LA
13-Pine Bluff, AR
14-Lafayette, LA
15-Jackson, MS
16-Saginaw, MI
17-Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ
18-Tucson, AZ
19-Los Angeles County, CA
20-Baltimore-Towson, MD
21-Albuquerque, NM
22-Vineland, NJ
23-Montgomery, AL
24-Little Rock, AR
25-Charleston-North Charleston, SC

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:45 am

Greg in your hast to prove Liberals are correct in their assumptions about guns you used out dated statistics. What you posted was based from survey based on 2003 statistics. I use the word hast because I donâ€™t want to call you a deceiver and believe your ability to research in lacking. Shame on you! You should have remembered we just talked about this topic this last December. See below!

The other point is Arizona right to carry concealed weapons was signed into law 16 April 2010. It will take some years to obtain new statistics on the effect it has on Arizona and Phoenix. If you remember just last year Phoenix had the most kidnappings in the country. You have not read about one this year.

But back on to the issue of Arizona new immigration law â€“ One thing that hit me yesterday when talking to people in Arizona was the fact that they said it would save more lives because a lot of the illegal are dying just on our side of the border. But no Liberals only care about their point of view and really donâ€™t want to take care of the issue.

http://westernbass.com/forum/viewtopic. ... est+cities

Marty wrote:California has 11 cities in the top 100 cities with the highest crime rate.

The following list (taken out of a table) is based on Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports statistics that initially became available in September 2009. Rates are based on cases per 100,000 for all of calendar 2008.

Ranked #2 is Los Angeles
Ranked #10 is San Diego
Ranked #11 is San Jose
Ranked # 16 is San Francisco
Ranked # 39 is Fresno
Ranked # 40 is Sacramento
Ranked # 41 is Long Beach
Ranked # 49 is Oakland
Ranked # 61 is Bakersfield
Ranked # 66 is Riverside
Ranked # 67 is Stockton

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:39 am

Marty wrote:Greg in your hast to prove Liberals are correct in their assumptions about guns

Actually I never tried to do that. I believe in gun ownership.

Could you provide me a link to your statistics like i provided for you?

I couldn't find you 2009 statistics but I found these 2008 statistics based on FBI files published on Wiki

First look at the populations then the total crimes. Phoenix has long been recognized as a dangerous place to live. 'd be packing if I lived there too. That why I like it in CA where I live.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:00 am

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:20 am

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:30 am

Like I all ready said Greg - Arizona right to carry concealed weapons was signed into law 16 April 2010. It will take some years to obtain new statistics on the effect it has on Arizona and Phoenix. If you remember just last year Phoenix had the most kidnappings in the country. You have not read about one this year.

As Rod stated removed crime related to illegal's and that law was just in acted.

I take it youâ€™re admitting what you posted early is incorrect.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:37 am

Marty wrote:
I take it youâ€™re admitting what you posted early is incorrect.

I looked it up and posted what I found and provided a link then backed it up with a graphic of other statistics. I have found nothing yet that proves me wrong.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:38 am

Rod Martin wrote:If cross border drug and gang related crime were removed, how would both Ca. and Az. look?
Also if you removed crime related to illegals, what would it do to both states?

If my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:05 am

Greg_Cornish wrote:I have found nothing yet that proves me wrong.

Youâ€™re a Liberal!!!!!!!!

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:22 am

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:09 am

Marty wrote:Youâ€™re a Liberal!!!!!!!!

LOL intelligent come back. Actually I think the national guard should patrol the border and I do believe in granting anyone who has been here for 10 years with no criminal record amnesty. I think the rest should be rounded up and set back. I don't believe that we should provide adult illegals with medical care.

I believe current waiting period gun legislation should apply to gun shows, but no new gun legislation should be enacted. I believe anyone with a clean record who knows how to probperly handle a handgun should be allowed to carry one for your protection if you fear enough that you need one or you live in Arizona. I believe that right is granted by the Second Amendment.

Am I still a liberal or kind of a liberal or and independent?

Sorry Rod, as usual, I can't understand the point you are trying to make.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:24 am

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:26 am

Rod Martin wrote:I know gerggg, as always . smarta$$ and play dumb. you only post for your amusment.

What? You should join the conversation if you have time.

SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO BARE ARMS

bradj · Post by **bradj** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:11 am

Why are we not blaming the employers for employing them in the first place. And if these immigrants are on such great wages as you suggest why did the employers give the jobs to illegals. There are only 2 explanations:

1) The illegals cost less - Therefore its the employer we should be going after.

2) the illegals are much more skilled - In that case it says something about the countries skill levels.

We can't always blame governments for these problems sometimes the issues need addressing within society.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:20 am

We need a certain number to do jobs at lower wage levels like harvesting crops, housekeepers, lawn work etc. If we had a proper quota for those jobs then I would be fine with that. The construction industry employed millions during the boom because there was a need and yes they would work for less. I agree that we need to have tougher employer sanctions and sentencing to ever get a handle on the problem. The issue is not so much societal as it is politicians IMO. They were taking contributions from the very companies that were the biggest violators and we have the laws in place but they did not enforce them. Either way the AZ law is forcing congress to take action and they will have to be very careful not to tick off the voters on this one. We all see the costs to the state budgets in healthcare, education and encarceration and your state spent over $1.5 billion last year on costs related to illegals. People are tired of this mess.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:15 pm

It would be nice if Cali passed a law like this, but I know it will never happen.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:24 pm

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:55 pm

I saw that San Francisco is going to boycott our state for enforcing federal immigration laws. Boo frickin' who. Al Sharpton is coming to town to get more air time so we must be doing the right thing. If 70% of the state is supporting this bill then we are prepared to lose whatever it takes.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:00 pm

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:09 pm

Ringer wrote:I saw that San Francisco is going to boycott our state for enforcing federal immigration laws. Boo frickin' who. Al Sharpton is coming to town to get more air time so we must be doing the right thing. If 70% of the state is supporting this bill then we are prepared to lose whatever it takes.

I laughed my *** off when I heard that this morning. Like who really gives a rats *** what SF does if you don't live in SF?

swank · Post by **swank** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:29 am

Didn't we steal Arizona for Mexico anyway? Maybe we should just give it back.

swank · Post by **swank** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:22 am

And by the way aren't you the same group who hates all government involvement-or is it just when you agree with too much govt?

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:57 am

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:51 am

I am for smaller government. In fact I think there should be zero dollars to any state for welfare, medicaid, education or roads. Let the people in each state use their own money to provide the services they think are justified. You want to cram your ER and schools with illegals then have at it but zero dollars from any other source. The feds can take care of the military. Believe me you would see change you can believe in if all revenue stayed local and we could control how that money is spent. I don't trust congress to do much of anything right.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:32 pm

bradj wrote:Why are we not blaming the employers for employing them in the first place. And if these immigrants are on such great wages as you suggest why did the employers give the jobs to illegals. There are only 2 explanations:

1) The illegals cost less - Therefore its the employer we should be going after.

2) the illegals are much more skilled - In that case it says something about the countries skill levels.

We can't always blame governments for these problems sometimes the issues need addressing within society.

Water takes the path of least resistance â€“ if water represented illegal and enforcement of our laws represented least resistance you can visualize the problem on our southern boarders.

Everything in life works in a set of rules (system, set of laws [nature or man-made], policy, and regulations). These rules guide us in our actions â€“ when these rules are not enforced then the lower illicit of life will not follow because the lack of values. If the rules are not to anyoneâ€™s liking then they have to go to their congress person and ask for change. But the liberals have not changed anything and just chose to not enforce the current laws.

Well Arizona is forcing the hand of the Federal Government which should have done something long ago! O by the way there are laws on the books that employers canâ€™t hire illegalâ€™s but again there is no enforcement of those laws. During his presidential campaign, Obama promised to stop ICE (immigration enforcement) raids on job sites. During the previous administration, work site raids had forced many illegal alien-hiring companies to "go straight."

Just days after he took his oath of office, Obama slapped down ICE after it raided a plant in Washington State that knowingly hired illegal workers. Since that time--there has not been a single raid. Also, get this -- The President's next federal budget proposes CUTS in the number of Border Patrol agents. Not an increase. Not even holding the line. CUTS!!! Enforcement is crumbling! If Congress won't crack down on illegal aliens already here, and the Obama administration actually makes dodging federal law easier, states will have to go it alone. Yes, the Arizona is forcing the law but their new law's provisions closely mirror existing federal law.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:36 pm

swank wrote:Didn't we steal Arizona for Mexico anyway? Maybe we should just give it back.

Where in the hell did you get that stupid idea from La Raza or MEchA? Both are raciest organizations and care nothing about your white @ss. I just donâ€™t know if there is enough time in my life to teach you!

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:37 pm

You want to know what is odious to me is POS Jesses Jackson not being able to pronounce Mexican! What a loser and he is part of the Liberals movement?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ocent.html

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:40 pm

What does Invasion mean?

Webster

1. The act of invading; the act of encroaching upon the rights or possessions of another; encroachment; trespass.
2. A warlike or hostile entrance into the possessions or domains of another; the incursion of an army for conquest or plunder.
3. The incoming or first attack of anything hurtful or pernicious; as, the invasion of a disease.

What does the Constitution say about Invasion?

The Constitution of the United States, art. 1, s. 8, gives power to congress "to provide for calling the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions." Vide Insurrection.

What we have here is an Invasion of illegal immigrates.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:41 pm

No worry Marty, looks like Utah is going to pass the same law and OK already did. If we can get NM and TX then all of the illegals will head to California and you can move over here. Bring your weapons for when we build the fence along the California border.

2ndsuks · Post by **2ndsuks** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:18 am

bradj wrote: Why are we not blaming the employers for employing them in the first place. Why the employers, the government is not doing their job by these illegals being here in the first place, The federal government does not abide by their own laws but you want employers to be punished for the same thing! And if these immigrants are on such great wages as you suggest why did the employers give the jobs to illegals. There are only 2 explanations: You are off your rocker!

1) The illegals cost less - Therefore its the employer we should be going after.

2) the illegals are much more skilled - In that case it says something about the countries skill levels.

3) Illegals don't fake injuries to collect workers comp.

4) Illegals don't talk and text on their cell phone all day and expect a full days pay!

5) Illegals don't call in sick every other Monday.

6) Illegals don't whine and complain about the work being too hard.

7) Illegals were not raised in liberal families to teach them all the above.

We can't always blame governments for these problems sometimes the issues need addressing within society.

If the government was doing it's job, we would not be having this conversation, would we!

b2customrods · Post by **b2customrods** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:38 am

Before I finally went out on SSD I worked for a Sheet Metal Company as a production mgr. We employed mainly Mexican people. Most couldnt speak any English. The only requirement to be employed is to show two pieces of ID and one had to have a picture. It is not up to the employer to investigate to see if the ID is real only that they id is on the list of acceptable pieces of ID.

You could always count on them being at work everyday!
If they got hurt for the most part they didnt say anything.
They work all the OT we could give them. Even weekends.
They never complain about anything.
We paid them good money with no benefits except vacation.
They paid taxes.

We knew damn well that some of them were illegal but we followed the hiring guidelines and they were higherable.

Nobody started at minimum wage
Leads were paid at that time about 20/hr. That was 3 years ago.

If it were up to me I would have checked out the id a little closer but hey im not the one hiring.

It was an interesting place to work though. All the mgr's or office employee's were white all the workers out on the production floor were Mexican. We never had any white people apply for a sheet metal work position well we had one and we did hire him but he didnt last. I think the Mexicans chased him out.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:52 am

I found it interesting, not knowing much about Mexican culture (may I digress) that a friend of mine who owned a restaurant in Sonoma said he had a hard working light skinned Mexican chased off by the dark skinned Mexicans for fear of being killed. He said that while the popular Movie and TV stars are nostly light skinned, the light skinned Mexicans don't fare as well in regular society.

I have no idea if this is true or not because It's a single source but I'm curious about it.

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