Dead fish? REALLY PEOPLE??

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:47 pm

There was a local tournament last weekend with dead fish that came to the scales. I was told 7 hefty bags full of fish were dumped off to the side away from the release boat.
I just want to know why and how this keeps on happening? Does anyone not give a crap anymore about the fish that we use in this sport?? Im not going to go into who's circuit this was but this is happening ALL THE TIME with this circuit! MAYBE,
1. its time to have a circuit meeting before blast off to discuss fish care
2. Maybe offer a day size bottle of rejuvenate for each boat, if its a cost issue charge 1.00-2.00 per boat each tournament
3. OPEN TO OTHER SUGGESTIONS!
4. SUGGEST ICE??
5. Bigger penalties for dead fish?
I hear a lot about our fellow fishermen that are on the banks during spawn taking more then their fair share. EVERYONE wants to talk about that. So why is it that one circuit is allowed this pass? No one is talking about this, why? The ONLY way this can get fixed is to talk about it. Because so far bans and fines have done NOTHING to solve the problem.
Discuss?

Zachary · Post by **Zachary** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Keep it real, who was it. Future Pro, BBT, AC, who

Bruce Theriot · Post by **Bruce Theriot** » Fri May 17, 2013 8:05 pm

Why not say what circut it is? They get away with this type of action because no one wants to embarrass them into doing the right thing. If you choose not to call them on this behavior, then you are condoning what they do! Contact Fish & Game and file a complaint and have the circut monitored. Either step out or step out.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Fri May 17, 2013 8:09 pm

I really didnt think it would be that hard to figure out. Contacting Fish and Game resulted in a ban for one year on that body of water but it didnt seem to fix much in the long run.
I was trying to make this more about fixing the problem, there was OVER 100 BOATS so there's a lot of you that are not saying ANYTHING at all! Seems like if you out the ORG on here your the bad guy and you just have a issue with the ORG so that's why I didnt name names.
Once again Anglers are the ones with dead fish. The ORG is a small part of this. While I do think the ORG has a role to play I think the Anglers that came to the scales do also.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Fri May 17, 2013 8:14 pm

I also wrestled with this for a week. I knew about it the next day but it wasnt until I spoke to one of the garbage men today that I decided enough is enough.
I know this site wants everything to flow nice and easy. Im sorry people that Im giving Cali Orgs a bad name. I would like my kids and friends and families kids to enjoy the resources we do now in the future.

bassrman · Post by **bassrman** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:49 am

Seems to me, there was only one tourney last weekend, that would of had a large enough turnout to have that many dead fish!, I don't have to mention any names , because, I think most of you know what Org. I am talking about, they had the same thing happen a coupla years ago,lost hundreds of fish!,anglers waiting in line to weigh in,20 to 30 , resting there bags on the hot Redbud parking lot asphalt!, I can testify to that one" I launched at Redbud the next day,and saw all the dead fish" it was sickening. as far as I know,no action was taken by DFG, because they were back the next year?....

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Sat May 18, 2013 6:50 am

I think anyone who reads this would be disgusted. I think 30 is a significant number let alone 300! Usually the folks up at clear lake are present at the weigh in that monitor that sort of thing. I thought DFG required a release boat for larger tournaments and that the fish have to be released pretty far offshore like one mile or so at clear lake.

ABA this year seemed to do a great job with fish care and release. (seperate bags, anglers releasing fish out in middle of the lake)

How about some specifics we can do something about this?

I read the original post again and it said there was a release boat. So angler fish care is what you are specifically talking about? If that is the case then yes disqualify the anglers who bring dead fish to the scales.

clearlakeoutdoors · Post by **clearlakeoutdoors** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:18 am

I talked to the guys running the release boat last weekend and they said 20 -30 dead fish ,which is still to many.I dont know where the 300 count came from unless there was a bunch floating the next day.Guys need to spend the time on their boats repairing replacing pumps, batteries etc. Maybe drive by boat checks with live wells running in the morning or you dont fish!!
no reason for any dead fish.
Dave

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:23 am

Release boat guys didn't see the fish. They were kept from them and black bagged.

Otay Michael · Post by **Otay Michael** » Sat May 18, 2013 9:27 am

How do you use 'ice', in what form? Seems like recirculate would get rid of cooler water right away.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 9:43 am

Auto, frozen bottle water, ice, live well treatment.

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Sat May 18, 2013 11:10 am

Dave,

Its been a while but I thought we did drive by FLW with our livewells open and running and showed our auto stop connected to our vests as we drove by the starting dock in the morning?

Ice and fish go go is just common sense!

bassrman · Post by **bassrman** » Sat May 18, 2013 11:34 am

On a brighter note!... if any of you fished the Lucas oil/ABA at CL , that was one of the best run/ organized tourneys, I have ever fished!,the weigh in , was very well done",release boat, holding tanks with air stones , plenty of experienced people to make shure every thing went smooth, no big line of anglers waiting" basically went like this "bag your fish", someone waves you up", 2 to 4 mins at the holding tank",3 to 5 mins at the scale", 2 mins to take your pic " they hand you your weigh in slip & back down to the release boat!. 5 to 8 mins total ", that your fish were out of the aerated holding tanks!... no dead fish at that event", that I know of?....

LV Ba$$ · Post by **LV Ba$$** » Sat May 18, 2013 3:29 pm

Really pathetic and sad if this is true! All in the name of what 1st, 2nd and 55th place? Cmon now, seriously?

LV Ba$$ · Post by **LV Ba$$** » Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm

No disrespect to 1st, 2nd and 55th if they read that...its just those fish died for what reason again? Certainly not to eat, especially via Clearlake, then why? Really at the end of the day why subject that many fish to an early demise?

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:35 pm

LV Ba$$ wrote:No disrespect to 1st, 2nd and 55th if they read that...its just those fish died for what reason again? Certainly not to eat, especially via Clearlake, then why? Really at the end of the day why subject that many fish to an early demise?

See this is the problem, over 700 views already and not a peep. Matter of fact not much from anyone.
GARBAGE BAGS! Not donated, not given away, nothing. Just dumped! The fact that it was trying to be covered up should alarm people also but I guess its not.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:37 pm

biteme wrote:
LV Ba$$ wrote:No disrespect to 1st, 2nd and 55th if they read that...its just those fish died for what reason again? Certainly not to eat, especially via Clearlake, then why? Really at the end of the day why subject that many fish to an early demise?
See this is the problem, over 700 views already and not a peep. Matter of fact not much from anyone.
GARBAGE BAGS! Not donated, not given away, nothing. Just dumped! The fact that it was trying to be covered up should alarm people also but I guess its not.

BTW why does this keep on happening to one circuit. Its like some of the guys that fish this one ORG are just clueless or something.
I guess this could be a positive for the protect the Hitch movement going on at CL right now eh?

LV Ba$$ · Post by **LV Ba$$** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:07 pm

Again, if the 300 dead fish in garbage bags can be substantiated then I feel as if SOMETHING needs to happen. I cannot vouche for it but again, IF this is true, someone that witnessed it and can lay claim to validating the story should contact the proper authorities.

If we care so much about the survival of these fish then why allow Clearlake to be beat to death week after week then just contribute to the mortality rate by even more battering by way of improper care while in possession?

I for one hope this story isn't true! I hope what really happened was the org and anglers did everything they could to help the fish return alive and healthy! I hope......

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:17 pm

LV Ba$$ wrote:Again, if the 300 dead fish in garbage bags can be substantiated then I feel as if SOMETHING needs to happen. I cannot vouche for it but again, IF this is true, someone that witnessed it and can lay claim to validating the story should contact the proper authorities.

If we care so much about the survival of these fish then why allow Clearlake to be beat to death week after week then just contribute to the mortality rate by even more battering by way of improper care while in possession?

I for one hope this story isn't true! I hope what really happened was the org and anglers did everything they could to help the fish return alive and healthy! I hope......

Well as soon as the Anglers STEP UP and talk about this it wont stop. BUT they wont talk about it because they are fishing the circuit. The guys that got rid of the bags were the ANGLERS because they were asked to by the director.
Its like,
"first rule of fight club is you dont talk about fight club"
The Anglers are protecting the Org. and this is why we would have never heard about it to start with.
This isnt some made up BS, this is TRUE. Like I said I spoke with one of the garbage men. Doesnt anyone also find it odd that the usual suspects that normally protect this Org are not defending it this time? Like I said 800 views and notta!

basscat18 · Post by **basscat18** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:23 pm

Someone with first hand knowledge should turn them in to DFG, cal tip Lt. If you want to find out more about the CalTIP program or have questions about how the CalTIP program works, please e-mail Lt. Mike Milotz

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:26 pm

basscat18 wrote:Someone with first hand knowledge should turn them in to DFG, cal tip Lt. If you want to find out more about the CalTIP program or have questions about how the CalTIP program works, please e-mail Lt. Mike Milotz

Do you have the email addy?

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:30 pm

Just trying to help for those that want to do more. Just a couple links to help aid our fish.
http://www.newproproducts.com/
http://keepfishalive.com/about-oxygenator.php
http://www.thmarine.com/products/Aerati ... Air-System

jsena800 · Post by **jsena800** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:52 pm

biteme,

I believe you are saying futurepro anglers killed 300 of the 479ish fish weighed in. I have a hard time believing that. I think you are just trying to stir the pot and pit others against the futurepro organization. I'm not saying that some fish did not die although I have no knowledge of that. What I am saying is stick with facts. Don't make up an arbitrary number about how many fish might have died during the tournament. You are as bad as the media when you do this.

I am just curious about what you have against Vince and his organization and or the anglers that choose to fish with Vince.

J. Sena

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 6:21 pm

jsena800 wrote:biteme,

I believe you are saying futurepro anglers killed 300 of the 479ish fish weighed in. I have a hard time believing that. I think you are just trying to stir the pot and pit others against the futurepro organization. I'm not saying that some fish did not die although I have no knowledge of that. What I am saying is stick with facts. Don't make up an arbitrary number about how many fish might have died during the tournament. You are as bad as the media when you do this.

I am just curious about what you have against Vince and his organization and or the anglers that choose to fish with Vince.

J. Sena

HAAHAHA I was waiting for this! Just like everyone else that brings up FPT on this site! They get the "what do you have against FPT" Well thats a fair question I guess, well maybe not considering the past and record for fish care by FPT.
UNREAL mass fish killing all the time and you ask me what my problem is with FPT. Well, thats my problem! GET IT????? I dont like to see floaters for profit. I could care less about what FPT does as long as they take care of the resource. Ask yourself how hard would it be to avoid all this? After being slapped with fines and a ban for a year you would think FPT would try harder. Oh wait, they did! The first tournament back fish care was discussed and live well treatment was passed out. After that tournament that was it! Never again.
One would THINK that this would be a easy fix. FPT has a good thing going, numbers, sponsors, a good showing. How hard would it be to invest in more fish care? Im talking a pamphlet showing what suggestions for a deep hooked fish, live well temps during a tournament o a warm day. Pre spawn fish vs post spawn fish and on and on! Or maybe a sponsor of live well treatment to aid those fish and to solve this PR nightmare! If FPT wanted to they have the resources to do so! Look at the sign up pamphlet, Something like that on fish care would be awesome!
So do you still think I have a personal issue with FPT other then fish care? Look dude Im not hiding behind a screen. A lot of guys know me here. Look at my post count. I didnt just start this account to stir ****. I did this out of concern and Im sorry you cant see that. To prove Im not just stirring the pot. Vience knows who I am. I BBQ'ed hot dogs for all you that showed up at CC for the Folsom Tournament. Would I do that if I had it out for FPT? No I wouldnt.

As for me making this up, OK. How would I know about the garbage bags? How would I know about anglers disposing of them? Yes its all adds up dude and theres a reason why. Im taking the 300 fish number from the garbage man(angler) I asked 300!?? He said YES 300! I was like NO WAY! Yes 300 WTF! So lets take the 300 number and set it a side. There was 7 black garbage bags, garbage man said each one was soo freaking heavy. That sound like a bunch to me eh? So protect and ignore and PRETEND this is a non issue. We will be back right at square one bud.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 6:46 pm

jsena800 wrote:biteme,

I believe you are saying futurepro anglers killed 300 of the 479ish fish weighed in. I have a hard time believing that. I think you are just trying to stir the pot and pit others against the futurepro organization. I'm not saying that some fish did not die although I have no knowledge of that. What I am saying is stick with facts. Don't make up an arbitrary number about how many fish might have died during the tournament. You are as bad as the media when you do this.

I am just curious about what you have against Vince and his organization and or the anglers that choose to fish with Vince.

J. Sena

BTW you were the first one to name FPT not me!

Isnt this just awesome. You see this topic posted time and time again. Yet we still have the problem. Im now the bad guy for wanting fish care to be more of a concern. Suggested I have some alternative motive because of it. Is it REALLY that far fetched?? What a joke.
Good luck you guys. Im out, clearly no one wants to talk about this or even come up with suggestions. Well I did but they were over looked and it was suggested I have it out for FPT.
If anyone wants to talk more Ill reply via PM.
My passion and concern is getting in the way here. Those that care feel free to post your suggestions. Thanks

Bruce Theriot · Post by **Bruce Theriot** » Sat May 18, 2013 6:58 pm

FYI:
Cal Tip-1-888-334-2258
DFG: 1-916-653-4899
N. Coast Enforcement: 1-707-944-5588
If you have first hand information or know someone who does, these would be a good place to start. Also contact the local state representatives in Sacramento.

JustFishn · Post by **JustFishn** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Biteme. So your going off hear say not actual facts. Just like your statement that the circuit was banned for a year. Is that documented? Or did they just not go there and you assume that they were banned? Let me 1st say if fish were thrown in the trash I am completely for penalizing the circuit or the anglers that dispose of these fish. Not acceptable. Now for facts I weighed 95% of the boats. Yes there was dead fish. Yes I put them in a weigh in bag next to the table so they would not be thrown in the water and be wasted. I left right after weigh in was not there wehn vince broke down everything I did ask a couple boats to please take there dead fish home with them if i couldnt find it right away in there bag Since we were filling the bags as soon as they were weighed with water Ask any angles that were there. There was no line to get to the scales. Fish brought straight to the boat to the scale. There was one bag next to me with dead fish not 300 as you say. No way in hell!!! One bag with about 20 fish. This is a fact!

I had a fish die I did everything I could to save it. We kept the pumps on all day fresh water all day and it died. I was pissed I haven't lost a fish in over a year. So do I need to educated? I fish almost every weekend one fish in more then a year. Can u say you never had a fish die in tournament or maybe you don't fish tournaments.

I will agree with you I believe there should be tougher penalties for dead fish and short fish. But will it solve anything. Will this make everyone happy and not blame the org. Say a circuit doesnt allow a dead one to be weighed or a pound penalty. Would the anglers (pros) included just get rid of that fish knowing its not going to make it but doesn't want the penalty. It's a hard one to figure out. I don't blame the circuit for the anglers not managing there fish. I blame every angler. One boat came in with 4 dead. I asked the guy wtf happened all nice fish. He said my live wells quite working. I asked when? Said about noon. I couldn't believe it I know for a fact he kept fishing. This was not a rookie rookie fisherman. I was disgusted but how is that the orgs fault 100+ plus boats. You can not police everyone out on the water.

So again I agree something needs to done with some anglers lack of care for fish but you can't put that on the orgs. And I can personally say I weighed the fish and your 300 is so far off it's almost wrong you were allowed to put this on a public site..

Just my facts and opinions.

Justin Nelson

basscat18 · Post by **basscat18** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:25 pm

Fastest way would be to call, but e mail for Mike is Michael.Milotz@wildlife.ca.gov

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:48 pm

JustFishn wrote:Biteme. So your going off hear say not actual facts. Just like your statement that the circuit was banned for a year. Is that documented? Or did they just not go there and you assume that they were banned? Let me 1st say if fish were thrown in the trash I am completely for penalizing the circuit or the anglers that dispose of these fish. Not acceptable. Now for facts I weighed 95% of the boats. Yes there was dead fish. Yes I put them in a weigh in bag next to the table so they would not be thrown in the water and be wasted. I left right after weigh in was not there wehn vince broke down everything I did ask a couple boats to please take there dead fish home with them if i couldnt find it right away in there bag Since we were filling the bags as soon as they were weighed with water Ask any angles that were there. There was no line to get to the scales. Fish brought straight to the boat to the scale. There was one bag next to me with dead fish not 300 as you say. No way in hell!!! One bag with about 20 fish. This is a fact!

I had a fish die I did everything I could to save it. We kept the pumps on all day fresh water all day and it died. I was pissed I haven't lost a fish in over a year. So do I need to educated? I fish almost every weekend one fish in more then a year. Can u say you never had a fish die in tournament or maybe you don't fish tournaments.

I will agree with you I believe there should be tougher penalties for dead fish and short fish. But will it solve anything. Will this make everyone happy and not blame the org. Say a circuit doesnt allow a dead one to be weighed or a pound penalty. Would the anglers (pros) included just get rid of that fish knowing its not going to make it but doesn't want the penalty. It's a hard one to figure out. I don't blame the circuit for the anglers not managing there fish. I blame every angler. One boat came in with 4 dead. I asked the guy wtf happened all nice fish. He said my live wells quite working. I asked when? Said about noon. I couldn't believe it I know for a fact he kept fishing. This was not a rookie rookie fisherman. I was disgusted but how is that the orgs fault 100+ plus boats. You can not police everyone out on the water.

So again I agree something needs to done with some anglers lack of care for fish but you can't put that on the orgs. And I can personally say I weighed the fish and your 300 is so far off it's almost wrong you were allowed to put this on a public site..

Just my facts and opinions.

Justin Nelson

Justin, yes I guess Im going off "hearsay" I tell ya what. This came from someone in the top 3 in this event. He was a garbage man asked to take them away so no one could see. Now lets say his 300 number was off. Lets say each boat in the field had 1 dead fish thats over 100 dead fish no? Maybe he stretched it, I dunno. Why would a die hard for this Org stretch that number??? So then he says 7 hefty bags. I asked, garbage bags??? YES GARBAGE BAGS. AGAIN THIS WAS SOMEONE THAT FINISHED IN THE TOP THREE.
Im not saying that dead fish dont happen. Im also not saying you need to lean fish care and I think you know that. I know a few boats personally that fished the event that had a dead fish each. I know these guys take care of fish. SO YES I GET IT HAPPENS! If you re read my post Im not 100% blaming the Org. Matter of fact I said the Anglers need to step up. I also asked for suggestions to try and help the cause.
All that gets over looked I guess because you kow who the Org is and people just assume Im "going after them"

Let me ask you because you staff for this Org. Whats a acceptable number of dead fish?

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:55 pm

Your right Justin I dont know how many fish were killed 10 20 100 300 so I edited the post. I dont know how many fish were in 7 black garbage bags. Pretty sure the Angler could count 7 garbage bags though.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat May 18, 2013 8:24 pm

I'm just mad no one told me!! You know how much $$ that 7 bags of bass go for in Chinatown??

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Sat May 18, 2013 8:26 pm

If the fish kills are true I will blame the FPT and the ANGLERS for fish care, Was the fish and game properly notified and what do they have to say? If said fish kills are true (again) they, FPT should be stopped and banned from any future tournaments So wrong on so many levels, We have to care for and respect the bass resource, too many tourneys during the spawn when the fish are stressed in my opionion.To me its all about respect for the fish that we like so much and caring for them for future fishing.

JustFishn · Post by **JustFishn** » Sat May 18, 2013 8:40 pm

Idk the answer what is acceptable in that large of a tournament or any touranment And yes I am on his staff and I'm the 1st to call him out on bs that I see happen. I tell him my thoughts constantly. But I don't care if I was on his staff or not. I weighed the fish I put the dead ones in the bag. I did not collect that many fish as you said. If I was weighing fish for bbt, anglers choice, aba, flw or any org I would say what I saw happened. I have many complaints about FPT and i call him out on them in person and phone. He might not like what I have to say but I say it and hope he knows I'm looking out for the fish and anglers.

I wish there was no dead fish in any tournament but it does happen in every circuit at some point. If fish were dumped in the garbage then I believe the orgs should be fined or banned. No matter what circuit it is. Period not acceptable

Good luck tomorrow at Folsom.

Champion Jon · Post by **Champion Jon** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:21 am

I fished in the FPT tournament at clear lake this month.

We brought five healthy fish to the scales and weighed in during the first flight.

In the past five(5) years of fishing tournaments we have had one dead fish and it died within minutes of being caught due to a snag proof frog ripping the gill.

We did not see any dead fish but it would not surprise me at all if it happened. The weigh in it self seemed unorganized and understaffed. The 300 dead fish number seems VERY unrealistic to me. I am pretty sure I would have noticed if there was a huge number of dead fish brought to the scales.

First I will list some of the problems, then I have some possible solutions.

Problems:

1. No check in boat. We notified the TD of this and two(2) staff members and it was not corrected. We were just blown off. Why have a time to be back if there is no one to make sure your actually on time? We witnessed several boats that we believe were late.

2. No organization on the dock. Only one staff member on the dock. He was overwhelmed with the number of boats. He needed more help.
Lots of people who had not even got up to the dock had fish bagged and sitting in non aerated water on the hot deck of their boat for WAY too long.

3. Big fish declaration. We had our "big" fish in a separate bag and declared it while approaching the scales. Not because we expected to get paid from it, but because the rules state that a tie goes to the team with the biggest fish.
The staff still insisted on putting all of the fish in the tub at the same time and said they would remember which one was the big fish followed by asking us which one we wanted to weigh seconds later? Really?!

Solutions:

1. Have a check in boat! The last two tournaments we fished(clear lake and folsom) we have NOT checked in upon arrival due to there not being a boat there.
Having a check in boat sets the stage for an organized and official weigh in process. If the staff boats get to blast off early they should probably get back early as well to check people in and RUN the weigh in.

2. Hand out a card with a number on it from the check in boat when people return from fishing. This will be the weigh in order and be a guide line for when you should be on the dock bagging your catch. This will eliminate fish sitting in hot non aerated bags of water for long periods of time. Apparently people cant figure this out on their own.

3. That mega phone that is used before blast off to give people information needed for the tournament day should also be used from dock during weigh in to give people directions. This will eliminate some of the confusion from people, control the flow of boats/fish and keep everyone on the same page.

4. People like to see their names in the results. How about in those results it is noted WHO brought dead fish to the scales, how many dead fish they brought, and what the penalty(#'s) was. This may be incentive for many to take care of their reputation by taking care of their fish. It would show if its the same people every month.

Respectfully,

Jon Squaglia

drew · Post by **drew** » Sun May 19, 2013 1:37 pm

300 fish with an average weight of 2-3# each would be 600-900# of fish which I hardly think would fit in 7 hefty bags. Many of these bucks may have died from the rigors of spawning regardless if they were caught or not.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sun May 19, 2013 1:45 pm

drew wrote:300 fish with an average weight of 2-3# each would be 600-900# of fish which I hardly think would fit in 7 hefty bags.

Your right and after Justin pointed that out I removed the 300. I was just posting what I was told for someone that did this.
Because I know now the number was off I also contacted a mod last night and ask for this to be locked. But I guess no knew has done it yet.
Take what you will from this. There was. Number of dead fish. Justin says he sat a side 20-30 dead fish that never went to the release boat. Release boat said the had 20-30 also. So that what maybe 60?? I guess it's up to you guys to decide how many dead fish is too many. Good luck on the water guys!

Caudawg · Post by **Caudawg** » Sun May 19, 2013 4:06 pm

--Topic locked per originator's request--

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