Delta Cranking Rod???

[birdi23nls]

I asked the this question on another thread and got a couple of responses, but thought i would start a new thread on topic.

I was thinking of buying a cranking rod for the delta for my next set up, or a different rod and converting one of my 4wt rods to a cranking rod if that would be better suited to the task. When I say crankbaits I'm talking about lipped cranks like speed traps and luckycraft fat 4 ft divers.

Would a rod specifically made for cranking be a good choice on the delta considering the amount of cover you will be navigating, or would you buy a stiffer rod with a faster tip? Do I want a rod that is more parabolic, or a rod that you might use for throwing spinnerbaits or senkos.

I'll be honest, I don't understand the crankbait specific rods. I mean if I need one, I need one, but if I'm throwing a crankbait or a jerkbait there are 6 to 9 hooks for that bass to grab on to, and bass don't have soft mouths like a salmon or trout. I realize that a stiffer rod may likely rip their mouths more, but that would be the case with any hook or lure. I guess I need someone to explain the advantages to me.

Also, if you were to have a delta cranking set up, what would it be?

I was thinking a Dobyns 7' rod with a med/heavy or med action like the 703 or 704 or maybe longer i don't know. A Abu Garica Revo Premier or STX with 15 lb floro or 30 lb braid. If I am way off let me know before I go buy somthing.

[acm95301]

In my opinion, The Dobyn's 704 cb glass is awesome, particularlt for speed traps and 3/4 oz or small lipless crankbaits.

The 705cb or 805cb Dobyn's rods toss a D22 real nice too.

Dobyn's makes both graphite and glass/hybrid rods....The advantage of glass is that it loads up more, makeing the hookset less viloent and preserves the hook up instead of tearing the hook out.

The advantage of graphite has always been sensitivity, but I encourage you to try the glass models. Tackletour.com has an awesome review on crankbaits rods, and is well worth the read.

For the lakes and open river 10lb fluro is probably best, on the delta it is definetly an option to use braid ...power pro in 20-30lb should be adequate. Its not absolutely necessary though. The advantage to braid is the ability to retrieve your crankbait from the evil weed monster. And sometimes when you wanna catch fish you need to imperil your crank to get him...but as often as not cranks work well on rip rap and that level of weeds doesnt require braid.

The Revo STx is a good reel.. I use Revo S's. But there is a giant push to use slower reels for crank baits....6.3:1 for a revo s....down to 5:1 on these cranking reels. I'm not sold on this idea yet. Doesnt seem like a huge difference to me....and you can just reel slower on a higher speed reel. That said if your state of the art guy...try the somewhat expensive Diawa zillion crankster ...269 or so. BTW...spinning reels also retrieve at that speed usualy 5.2:1.

This is a favorite topic of mine..pm if necessary. Also If I'm on Mcclure or the Delta you can try my 704cb glass out.

[birdi23nls]

thanks

i know the crankin question has been played out the last couple of days on here but i really don't know if I buy the stiffer rods landing fewer fish while cranking. I know that I might be out for lunch, but it really doesn't seem logical that a spinnerbait, swimbait, or buzzbait tears a bass's lip less than a crankbait on a stiffer rod.

any way, maybe i'm analyzing it too much, and I should just go with the conventional wisdom.

[Delta is beast]

flipping stick

[LawDog]

My personal opinion is that you need at long rod you can throw a country mile. My cranking rod is old but it's 7'6" with a softer tip. I personally feel I hook more fish than other people I fish with, with stiffer rods. I catch a lot of fish with in the fist few cranks of the reel. I can probaly make a 50-60 yard cast with an LV-500. This rod also works well with the deep diving cranks. The only draw back is that its not very accurate when it come to throwing around pinpoint structure. Hope this helps a little.

[acm95301]

well, I agree in part. You don't need a mega rod with all the bells and whistles. I used to have a cheap IM6 blank rod...medium whatever rod, and I caught bass on lipless cranks and speed traps ok. The current craze though is in trying to optimise that tactic. With the IM6 I believe that there were bites that I wasn't feeling at all, that on some bites I may have pulled the bait away... or that standard hooks and rings may have been insufficent.

With the longer rods..you can toss a lure farther.
With a fast tip you can absorb the shock of an abrupt hook set.
On topwater lures your told to load up the rod before hook set or wait 2 sec.. I believe these are all ways to accomplish the same thing.

When all is said and done my best advise is that the best crankbait rod I have ever owned is a Dobyn's 704cb glass. And I have high expectations for the 705 and 805 versions as well, as one of them will be mine the next time I see a sale.

I also own the 736c and 807mag and soon the 784c ml. The rest of my rods are St. Croix now....the IM6 has been banished.

[Greg_Cornish]

Is there a difference between a Clear Lake and Delta and say Folsom cranking rod? If so, why.

[civicrr]

I know that I might be out for lunch, but it really doesn't seem logical that a spinnerbait, swimbait, or buzzbait tears a bass's lip less than a crankbait on a stiffer rod.

A spinnerbait or buzzbait are big single hook type lures. Take a look at the size of the hook. Most cranks have much smaller hooks. Even a LC BDS 3 or BDS 4 only has size 2 trebles. It isn't so much about the hole in the fishes mouth as much as about what actually gets hooked. You will land less fish on a 704 vs a 705CB.

The exception would be ripping lures through the weeds. Most folks prefer a little faster action for ripping rattletraps.

BTW, on lipped cranks, I like to swim the lure through.

any way, maybe i'm analyzing it too much, and I should just go with the conventional wisdom.

I don't think you are over analyzing. You need to do research & be satisfied you made the right choice.

The right choice is a crankbait rod for lipped baits. My favorite is the 705CB Glass.

[WishinIwerFishin]

I use powell 702cb glass and 703cb glass rods, and use both regularly on the delta. I use the 703 for rippin traps trough the grass but I want to get the 754 glass for that and dd22's.

[TomAtkeson]

Is there a difference between a Clear Lake and Delta and say Folsom cranking rod? If so, why.

You can get away with a lighter action rod on the lakes because there isnt the amount of jungleish cover for the fish to burry themselves in. You dont have to horse them as much and can take your time and be careful not to pull the trebels out of the fish.

That being said I have a Phenix X-10 its a pretty unique rod in that it is lower two thirds is carbon fiber/graphite blend and the other third is fiber glass. Lots of backbone plus that parabolic bend preffered while fishing reaction baits!

[birdi23nls]

I know that I might be out for lunch, but it really doesn't seem logical that a spinnerbait, swimbait, or buzzbait tears a bass's lip less than a crankbait on a stiffer rod.

A spinnerbait or buzzbait are big single hook type lures. Take a look at the size of the hook. Most cranks have much smaller hooks. Even a LC BDS 3 or BDS 4 only has size 2 trebles. It isn't so much about the hole in the fishes mouth as much as about what actually gets hooked. You will land less fish on a 704 vs a 705CB.

The exception would be ripping lures through the weeds. Most folks prefer a little faster action for ripping rattletraps.

BTW, on lipped cranks, I like to swim the lure through.

any way, maybe i'm analyzing it too much, and I should just go with the conventional wisdom.

I don't think you are over analyzing. You need to do research & be satisfied you made the right choice.

The right choice is a crankbait rod for lipped baits. My favorite is the 705CB Glass.

I know that I have always heard this, but why would the size of the hook in relation to the action of the rod change the hook up ratio? I understand that if it is a larger diameter hook you need a stiffer rod to punch the hook threw...but do not understand the science behind buying a more parabolic rod to crank with. Anyway...maybe I should google it.

[DanIsaac]

Birdi,


Think of "paraboilic" as a shock absorber. The more parabolic the rod, the more shock it absorbs from anything pulling it. This helps minimize the degree of "pull" or "leverage" a fish may apply to the hooks or line. It can pull, but the stress is transferred to the rod not the bait, sor to speak. Dobyns makes a fine rod I'm sure, but you might want to look at the latest and greatest from Shimano's latest Cumara Reaction Rod series. I'd suggest you take a look at either the CUC76ml or the CUC711m for doing what you describe. here's a link for you. Hope this helps.

http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content ... ction.html


Dan

[civicrr]

Think of "paraboilic" as a shock absorber. The more parabolic the rod, the more shock it absorbs from anything pulling it. This helps minimize the degree of "pull" or "leverage" a fish may apply to the hooks or line. It can pull, but the stress is transferred to the rod not the bait, sor to speak.

Sorry, I didn't explain it very well. So reading my post & then Dan's should give you a better idea.

It isn't that the rod helps you nail the hookset on bigger hooks by punching through. (Well, actually it does but that is a big hook type thing for another technique discussion:D) It is more that the 'soft' action allows the rod to absorb the shock of the surges from the fish.

The lighter tip allows the fish to suck in the bait. If they are really eating your bait, they will get the whole thing in their mouth before you pull it back (set the hook). Think about that - they have the whole bait with two sets of treble hooks in their mouth!

Now here is the other part I was trying to say. I was using the BDS 3 hook size (size 2) as an example because they are pretty big for a crankbait. Most cranks have size 4, or even smaller, hooks. Compare that to my preferred 5" senko hook which is a 4/0 Gammy GLock. Keep in mind the depth (or throw or whatever the space between the shank & point is called) of the hook on the 4/0 vs 2 treble. The 4/0 has got to be at least twice that of the treble.

Lets hook a fish on a BDS 3 & a senko. In the perfect scenario, you picked the perfect bait for the conditions (water clarity, depth, temp & fishes mood). Lets say it is the BDS 3 'cuz that is a popular Delta crank. It really ate the bait as described above. You set the hook but only get a hook up on the rear treble. How well is the fish gonna stay buttoned up on one hook of a size 2 treble vs a 4/0 GLock. Well, for that we gotta know where & how did the fish get hooked. That GLock will be through the upper jaw or the corner of the mouth behind or through the bone. The throw or depth on that size 2 treble might be in the edge of the jaw. It is quite possibly just a skin hook. It is a lot easier for the fish to get off on a skin hook vs a hook through the bone.

So, I think that the moderate/moderate fast/etc action of a crankbait rod helps you by giving you the chance with a better hookup & by helping to keep lightly hooked fish from tearing off better. Make more sense now?

[birdi23nls]

Think of "paraboilic" as a shock absorber. The more parabolic the rod, the more shock it absorbs from anything pulling it. This helps minimize the degree of "pull" or "leverage" a fish may apply to the hooks or line. It can pull, but the stress is transferred to the rod not the bait, sor to speak.

Sorry, I didn't explain it very well. So reading my post & then Dan's should give you a better idea.

It isn't that the rod helps you nail the hookset on bigger hooks by punching through. (Well, actually it does but that is a big hook type thing for another technique discussion:D) It is more that the 'soft' action allows the rod to absorb the shock of the surges from the fish.

The lighter tip allows the fish to suck in the bait. If they are really eating your bait, they will get the whole thing in their mouth before you pull it back (set the hook). Think about that - they have the whole bait with two sets of treble hooks in their mouth!

Now here is the other part I was trying to say. I was using the BDS 3 hook size (size 2) as an example because they are pretty big for a crankbait. Most cranks have size 4, or even smaller, hooks. Compare that to my preferred 5" senko hook which is a 4/0 Gammy GLock. Keep in mind the depth (or throw or whatever the space between the shank & point is called) of the hook on the 4/0 vs 2 treble. The 4/0 has got to be at least twice that of the treble.

Lets hook a fish on a BDS 3 & a senko. In the perfect scenario, you picked the perfect bait for the conditions (water clarity, depth, temp & fishes mood). Lets say it is the BDS 3 'cuz that is a popular Delta crank. It really ate the bait as described above. You set the hook but only get a hook up on the rear treble. How well is the fish gonna stay buttoned up on one hook of a size 2 treble vs a 4/0 GLock. Well, for that we gotta know where & how did the fish get hooked. That GLock will be through the upper jaw or the corner of the mouth behind or through the bone. The throw or depth on that size 2 treble might be in the edge of the jaw. It is quite possibly just a skin hook. It is a lot easier for the fish to get off on a skin hook vs a hook through the bone.

So, I think that the moderate/moderate fast/etc action of a crankbait rod helps you by giving you the chance with a better hookup & by helping to keep lightly hooked fish from tearing off better. Make more sense now?

Yes, it does make sense now, I'm going to buy a cranking specific rod next purchase...well maybe two purchases from now.

But, one more question. If you have larger treble hooks on your cranks and ripbaits, and if you have a stiffer rod wouldn't that enable better hook sets and even help from just skin hooking the fish? Or do treble hooks not really work that way?

[civicrr]

Well...yes but....generally speaking, lures are designed with certain considerations by the mfg. e.g. hook hanger placement & buoyancy. If you go to a bigger/stronger hook, you need to be aware of some possible negative results. The larger size hooks come with longer shanks. Now you most likely have a better chance of getting the hooks tangled with each other. The larger hooks are heavier especially if they are 2X or 3X strong. This changes the way the lure reacts e.g. a suspending ripbait may sink or a walking topwater may sit lower in the water. When upgrading to stronger hooks, for stripers, on Spooks & Pointers, I saw these things. It will be up to you to see if works for you.

Also don't forget, the bigger the hook and/or thicker the wire/hook, the more stout the rod needs to be to drive it home.

PS I have been thinking about trying some of those new Mustads Elite trebles with the really short shanks. I also just sent you a PM.