Fish Offs

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:52 am

Why are the Fish offs on Friday and Saturday? We don't fish tournaments on Friday and Saturdays. Shouldn't Fish Offs be on Saturday and Sundays?

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:59 am

C'mom now Bill, that makes too much sense

It is a GIANT conspiracy to make all the bass anglers use up their vacation/sick days

But HEY, just think you can stay an extra night, spend more $$$ and drive home on Sunday at a leisurely pace

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:29 am

I use all my Vacation on the pro stuff. The teams are for fun, THE WORKING MAN OR WOMAN OR CHILD. If they want to take extra time to pre fish or drive home, GREAT. But as a working man, I would pre fish the weekend before, take a half day on friday travel my 5hours make the meeting friday night and since I always lose be headed home by 4pm Sunday night, be to work Monday morning at 5am.

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:31 am

William Pointing wrote:I use all my Vacation on the pro stuff. The teams are for fun, THE WORKING MAN OR WOMAN OR CHILD. If they want to take extra time to pre fish or drive home, GREAT. But as a working man, I would pre fish the weekend before, take a half day on friday travel my 5hours make the meeting friday night and since I always lose be headed home by 4pm Sunday night, be to work Monday morning at 5am.

Bill,

Didn't you see the sarcasm dripping from my post

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:34 am

YES, I did. I would just like to know how it got started this way.

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:35 am

Also, I would like to know if Team Fisher people like it this way.

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:44 am

William Pointing wrote:Also, I would like to know if Team Fisher people like it this way.

Here is my vote:

I DON'T

If I don't want to drive home after the event finishes on Sunday let me decided use up my days off and drive home on Monday...don't FORCE me to take a day off to fish the event by starting it on Friday!

Team events have primarily always been weekender event for weekend anglers so why are we trying to make them like the big time Pro/AMs. Even one of them is having troubles getting numbers with the Fri/Sat format

smpboy · Post by **smpboy** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:47 am

nope it sux have it on sat and sun so us hard working anglers can save a vacation day

rangerz20 · Post by **rangerz20** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:56 am

I think it is great doing it Friday and Saturday. Sleep in Sunday morning with a slow roll home before the new work week, and have time Saturday night to reflect on the tournament with a few cold ones at say " the naked turtle" talking about Havasu of course. And as an added bonus less boat traffic on Friday.
Brad

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:05 am

Whats wrong with having a cold one Sunday night and slow rolling home Monday.

briguy388 · Post by **briguy388** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:37 pm

For us guy's that live 8 hours away it works, but I see both sides

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:42 pm

I raised the same issue with WON. I think that the fish-offs should be just like the regular tournaments.

Wekkend events should be on the weekends!

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:24 pm

fri sat. sweet come home sunday love it

Pete Marino · Post by **Pete Marino** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:01 pm

It appears that you fish the "pro" events for "fun" as well. Because you sure arent cashing many checks...

hahaha..

I actually prefer the Fri /Saturday style because it allows a person to drive home and relax on Sunday after a long two day event. I dont know about you but I'm mentally and phsically exausted after a tournament especially a two day.
Do you want some cheese with that whine....

Pete

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:19 pm

Pete, if I got ONE CHECK that's ONE MORE than you ever GOT!!!!

Pete Marino · Post by **Pete Marino** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:16 am

but Ive only fished 5-6 Pro/Ams.

Pete

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:08 am

Bill,

I've been on the why Friday/Saturday instead of Saturday/Sunday bandwagon for years. I personally don't get any vacation days. If the pro / ams can run Saturday/Sunday I don't see why the fish offs can't. With a Friday Tournament an angler probably has to take two days off in order to make the Thursday check-in. Unless of course folks want to actually have fish offs near where MOST of the tournaments are. Currently, a person wants to fish a fish off they are REQUIRED to take time off work. But not during the regular season. The regular season is geared for the weekend warrior (as I like to refer to us). (Heck, even the WON BASS Pro Ams are geared so the Weekend Warrior can participate. But not the Championships.)

I've heard the whole 'so people don't have to rush back on Sunday' stuff for years. I don't think that argument is legit. Those folks could just take off Monday INSTEAD of Thursday or Friday.

I don't see too many teams that actually stay till Sunday. From my perspective it seems that just about everybody (not including staff) takes off on Saturday so they can save the money on the Sunday hotel bill.

I have also always questioned why we have one-day events all season long then a two-day championship. All year long we reward the guys who can go out and get a single day big limit. Then we favor the guys who can put two good days together back to back. Why do it different.

We also don't have mandatory day early check-ins for the regular season either.

The fish offs are just about always at the desert lakes but MOST of the regular tournaments are on much smaller bodies of water.

Seems to me that we go from a weekend warrior format to a nearly Pro format.

Seems like just about everything is different for the fish offs. Never made much since to me.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:57 am

I hear at the store is the locations of the events. All the fishoffs are at the Desert lakes and those teams have the advantage. ALL Teams IMHO should fishoff on NEUTRAL WATER PERIOD. Then there is no complaints. Rick G.

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:59 pm

if you don't like it don't go to the toc simple concept. why cry just go out and fish, or don't

Vern · Post by **Vern** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:08 pm

As a tuornament director I will try and explain why most fish off's are on Friday and Saturday.
The main reasoning behind it is that the anglers, will have Sunday to drive home and be fresh to go to work on Monday. If the angler has to take extra time off it gives him a year to arrange it.
Yester day at the lake mead Classic I had the anglers vote what they liked better, Friday Saturday or Saturday Sunday. It was a 5 to 1 vote in favor for Friday Saturday.
We had anglers from all the southwest states there.
Vern

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:43 pm

You also had a vote at Clear Lake last year as to where the so. cal TOC would be this year but as we all know that vote did not matter ! Seems to be whats better for the people who make the final decisions . Not what the paying angler wants . As for the days , I liked the fri. and Sat . TOC. Gave us time to unwind for the drive home and make arrangements for getting the prize home

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:08 pm

Uhh Vern,

Wouldn't that poll be a little skewed as the event was a Friday/Sat event?

How many guys that prefer a Sat/Sun event didn't attend and therefore weren't asked to a vote?

We have to save ourdays off for the Fish Offs we have qualified for and therefore was unable to attend your Lake Mead Classic because we would have had to take a days off without pay. Your payback is good but not good enough to justify days off without pay

As for end of year fish offs. Yes the idea to give us Sunday to drive home to be fresh for Monday is a novel idea. To me the main problem with having a Fri/Sat Fish Off is you are FORCING people, who are primarily weekend warriors and have fished all Sat or Sun events (without having to take time off from work) to qualify for the Fish Off, to take Friday off work just to be able to fish the Fish Off. If the Fish Off is on Sat/Sun guys can choose to take off Monday and have a leisurely stroll home and be fresh for Tuesday and no one is FORCED to take an additional day of work just to fish!

Just the opinion of an overweight, washed-up wanabe tournament bass angler

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:06 pm

Hey Gary,

Stop it. You are making too much sense. MOST of these tournaments are run with very little, if any, imput from the anglers.

That's why the numbers for these events are low.

To quote Gary D, "The first tournament organization that puts together an angler advisory board will (could) own the market."

That makes too much sense.

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:31 pm

Alright Ricky I'll try to stop. What was I thinking (no wonder my head hurts) trying to make sense in the world of bass fishing

Good luck up the Columbia next month!

Vern · Post by **Vern** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:07 am

Let me see if I can answer some of the rebutal to my post. First yes maybe the vote this week may have been swayed by the fact that the anglers that were there voted. Who should have voted some one on a web site that has never fished this event? Yes there was a vote at Clear Lake and yes Clear lake was voted for. But in business things happen. Yes it was changed to Havasu but correct me if I am wrong to make it up we also scheduled a TOC at Clear Lake. As for having a board of Anglers run a tournament orginization schedule and turnaments. But who would be on it just anglers from southern Cal. I don't think so. You have a great bunch of anglers there and I am happy that some are my friends. But i know this for a fact . You can't get 10 anglers to agree on anythig. This post proves it. I know for a fact that all of the orginazations try their best to work their schedules and business for the anglers.
Everyone can't fish Fri&Sat everyone can't fish Sat&Sun. Every one can't travel. It is not our fault that Southern Cal does not have a lake large enough to handel a major tournament (125 boats to 200). There is know such thing as a netrual lake. So I will end with this . Everyone has their opinon what would be best and if we all keep working together it should get better for all. Vern

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:53 am

Here's a thought.

If an organization really wanted to know what their MEMBERSHIP preferred, they could have them vote when they turned in their membership. Whether it is at the first tournament or by mail.

Just my 2 cents.

DL · Post by DL » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:58 am

Here is a novel concept:

1. Look at the schedule
2. Look at the dates of each event AND the fish-off
3. Determine if the schedule and dates work for you
4. Determine if it is a lake you WANT to fish
5. Make a decision and live with it

If you dont want to fish a circuit because they have a fri-sat TOC, don't fish it. Or better yet, if you like the region and are good on said lakes, go for the friggin win every time you fish. Dont worry about points since you aren't going to a TOC anyway.

I agree with Bill on the fri-sat thing. I feel sometimes practicing the weekend before makes more sense, other times the two days before an event make all the difference in the world. But if I dont want to take time off, I dont have to.

But look at all the schedules and decide what you are going to do before you the season starts.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:07 am

My only question is when did get the biggest turnout. I know at least 10 teams, myself included, that would have fished the event if it was Sat/Sun.

I fished it when it was on Saturday and fished all the AC pro/ams when they were on the weekend.

I fish a lot of tournaments that are a week long and by this time every year I, as well as other, cannot find the time to take a Thursday and Fri off.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing expecting a different result.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:38 am

I'm just thinking out loud here but maybe, just maybe, the concept of any
TOC for team events has gotten to be an outdated one. Nothing and organizer can do is going to make everyone happy. Folks get upset if there run on Friday- Saturday. Folks get upset on which lake the event is on because they say it gives someone else an advantage and when you pick a lake that is no part of the tournament calendar you hear the objections to that as well.

So maybe it's time to just give a bit more back at every event and forget about holding a championship and make regional champs instead. Beats me, but again, I'm just thinking out loud here.

sTony

ash · Post by **ash** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:57 am

How can the Angler be the victim if they are the one making the choices? If you tell the market place what you want and they dont listen you dont purchase thier product and they will change it.

Stony are you nuts? The boat is the end of the rainbow for guys like me that are deadmoney thinkin I have a chance at winning a 35k new bass boat that cost the orginization 20k everyone is a winner.

I think Topstick is working on being a Dynamic Orginization that is listening to the anglers. I look to them at being the ones that drive market innovation....

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:44 pm

Completely Nuts SOCB, completely. That's me alright, hahaha.

I've never been a fan of points races and most of the team boats are won by a few people, not the masses. Heck the Mcabee's have claimed how many boats in team TOC's in the last few years? And the boats that are given away at Team TOC's seem to always be the entry level boat or lower tier boat in the product line. Points races were designed to keep the lemmings coming back and back and back. TOC's also tend to be more winner take all with little to no payback for everyone else.

I'm a different type of consumer. My schedule rarely allows me to fish a full calendar with any of the orgs so I go out and swing hard and try to win every time out and completely ignore points races.

It's interesting how anything out of the norm gets scoffed at rather quickly but the fact remains that most orgs are watching their numbers drop from year to year not go up so maybe folks aren't getting what they want from the status quo and maybe the industry could use some shaking up a bit.

But then that's just me, thinking out loud again.

sTony

PS - At least I know this, I ain't afraid to be original in my thinking and if folks want to pile on me from my thought processes then so be it. I got big shoulders baby, hahahaha.

ash · Post by **ash** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:09 pm

Tony, if there was a sarcasm emotcon

I would have used it. I agree with what you are sayin... so now we are both completely nuts!

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:17 pm

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:58 pm

Vern , I believe the schedule you referred to at clear lake was just an option for the so. cal or any body else that qualified for the toc to be able to fish the No. cal TOC. So much for the no home lake advantage . Just like going to Havasu . At least at Clear Lake it was an even playing field for all that qualified from reg. #2 . Do you think the guys comming from New Mex. or Colorado think they have a chance at Havasu ? At least at Clear Lake they had a chance to catch a fish of a lifetime . Come on man , be honest as to why you really moved it . Maybe the threats of your anglers fishing your region of leaving to another org . $$$ You told me yourself at Clear Lake the desert guys were crying that the so cal guys had some kind of rediculous advantage .

You never did give me any kind of example as to what kind of rediculous advantage we had .

Vern · Post by **Vern** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:12 pm

Ron T this will be my last post on this subject. If you are who I think you are nothing would make you understand why the TOC was moved to Havasu.
Anglers Choice has done all it can to make up for the change. The change was announced before the season started. You had a choice to fish AC or Not.
Let me see you qualify for one TOC you can fish all three . Havasu for two boats, the Dealta for Two boats, and then Clear Lake for one boat.
If you really think Clear Lake is a completely netural lake now I want some of what your are smoking.
Fishing turnament circuits is like buying a boat find the one that suits you best then buy it. It is that simple.
And to answer your question there several teams from So Cal and New Mexico that feel they have a better chance at Havasu to win. If all they wanted to do was spend all that money to catch a fish of a life time they would not go all the way to Clear Lake there several lakes in So Cal that they could go to for a lot less money. Vern

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:39 pm

I deleted what I had posted here becouse it would lead nowhere . I just want to say if an Org. ask for a vote they should stand behind the results . Regardless of one directors influence with key sponcers or the wining from a certain region . Like Vern said , Its like buying a boat . You decide .
Out .

John Barron · Post by **John Barron** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:37 pm

Hey Brad:
I heard about you and the Naked Turtle! Be careful
jb

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