FLOUROCARBON LINE ISSUES

[Phil]

USING TRILENE 10LB FLOUOR TRANSISION LINE, ON BERKLEY SERIES ONE AND DIAWA SPIN REEL..............LINE BREAKAGE ON HOOK SET. EXAMINE LINE AND IT LOOKS LIKE HAIR SPLIT ENDS.

AND IDEAS OR WHAT TO DO ?

(WE THINK ITS THE SS304 GUIDE SYSTEM STAINLESS STEEL GUIDES IS THE PROBLEM???)

JIGS

[JT-Madera]

Question

#1 where is the breakage occuring?

#2 what type of hookset?

#3 what is your drag set at?

[Sacto John]

What type of knot were you using. it is important to polamar knot. Also, be sure to wet your knot before cinch it down. with that being said, I am not a big fan of the smaller pound test of Vanish and Transition, I have had some breakage issues with it. I tend to use 14# and bigger.

[Phil]

line break about 3' down from the tip....hook set is straight up !

[gcopple]

i used to have the same problem. switch over to p-line floroclear and haven't had an issue with it.

[Marc]

Jigs, split ends usually indicates you have exceeded the tensile strength of the line. It has nothing to do with knots or hookset direction; only with the hookset force strecthing your line beyond its ability to stretch.

[Phil]

I THOUGHT MAYBE LINE FATIGUE ?? CAUGHT MAYBE 50 FISH THE PAST FEW WEEKS ON THE SAME LINE, PLUS COLD WATER LINE STRESS MAYBE ?? I FIGURE I WAS OUT MAYBE 10 YARDS , SET THE HOOK AND SNAP. HAVE NOT HAD THAT HAPPEN IN 50 FISH, JUST THAT TIME.

SO ALL LINE CAME OFF THE REEL AND NEW LINE ON AND TRY IT AGAIN ?

JIGS

[JT-Madera]

Phil;

I have tried the trilene floro's and have had the same results..too many breakoffs.. I lock down my drag and backreel, so I am going to have more breaks. I use only P-line or Seaguar floro, recently I have been using Seaguar InvizX and like it's lack of memory... Try using a sweep set, floro is stiffer and will break easier setting straight up.. I use a Series One for pitching and I don't suffer any additional breakoffs, so I don't think it is the rod....then again I use a Lot of braid/floro combo's and the guides on the Series One hold up better with the braid...

[FATGUY]

any chance you are using tunsten weights and a glass bead .. i learned from cooch that to never use tunsten weights and beads.. tungsten is so hard it cracks beads which in tourn cuts line . of course this only applies if its breaking by the hook ???? just some info ..

[Phil]

OK THANKS GUYS, I THINK I WILL TRY THE P-LINE, EVEN THO I AM A BERKLEY DEALER, ALSO GUESS I COULD SET THE HOOK WITH LESS AGRESSION ALSO ??

THANKS AGAIN

JIGS

[MrSkeeter]

Jigs,

As with any line/drag/rod combo, you have to balance the rod with the line characteristics. Such as if you have a very stiff rod, I would match it with a line that has some stretch ... especially true with small line weights.

It's not really so much a make of line (Berkely or P-Line or??), but the line characteristics. P-Line has Fluoroclear; which is quite stretchy. But they also have CXX and pure fluorocarbon; which is much less stretchy. Of course, braid have almost zero stretch all together.

Essentially when you do a hookset, something gives. Your rod/drag/line combo absorbs some of the shock or You move the fish if nothing else moves. If you set-up on a very heavy object and your rod/drag does not give, your line will ... or vice-versa.

Therefore, on fluorocarbon line (which typically have little stretch) ... and for the sake of discussion you are using a fairly stiff rod and light line test like 6# test. Then get bit by a nice fish near the boat in shallow water (meaning not much line out). And you have a wild hookset. Something has to give and it's typically the weakest link in the chain. Typically it's a knot failure. But if you have a weak spot in the line, then it could be conceivable that you have line failure.

Generally, for most light fluorocarbon lines (less than 10# test), I've found that the Palomar knot is not sufficient and will fail at times. It is usually on a good fish at the boat making that last run when the fish sees the boat. However, over the past year or so, I've began to use the San Diego Knot or the Berkely Braid Knot and have not experience any knot failures that are not my fault (bad job tying the line).

Generally though, I'm not a fan of the Trillene Transitsion line as have experienced line failures in the past. But since, I've heard from the Berkly rep that they've reformulated the line an the NEW transition line is suppose to be real good. In fact, I have a friend who will not fish anything else.

Also another thing to bear in mind. As with all lines (such as mono, except maybe braid), I've experience line failures when the fluorocarbon line is exposed to heat for long periods of time. Like for example, you kept the reel in the trunk of your car during hot summer days, the next time you use that reel/line, I would expect that there will be some breakage due to the line had degraded from the heat.

Personally, I use the Cabelas Proline Fluorocarbon. It is relatively inexpensive and has performed very well in my 2-3 years of using it.

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates ... stid=82092

Hope that helps ... good luck.

[Guest]

Check the rod tip for any cracks or excess epoxy on the eye. I had this problem with a rod before due to a build up of epoxy. Line would break every so often as a groove was created on the underside of the eyelet (can be removed with a knife). If you don't see any epoxy take a cue tip and swab both ends of the eyelet (or all for that fact). If any cotton is pulled off you have a cracked eyelet and it needs to be replaced.

If this becomes a common occurrence switch over to a copolymer line like Yo-zuri Hybrid. This way you get the strength and sensitivity of a Fluorocarbon line with a nylon coating for durability. See http://www.yo-zuri.com/Products/ProdLine/Hybrid.htm for more info.

[DAKINE198]

I have experienced almost the same thing with fluoro clear where it appeared the coating looked as if it was peeling off. From a spool of 8# and a spool of10# up until now I have never had this happen before with p-line.

[Phil]

think i will go back to trilene xt or cajun red, never had problems with either........the rod is brand new and no cracks but I do have a issue with the stainless guides, I still like the fuji I think better ?

Jigs

[leachman90]

Couple days ago I was steelheading using 10lb fluorocarbon P-line as a leaderand 10lb powerpro as a main line..This was brand new off the spool and only cast 3-4 times.Up here we use a slip bobber alot for steelhead.Bobber goes down real deep(fish should be on)I set the hook and come up emtey.Can't figure out why I missed the fish but when I reeled in I noticed that the leader was broke right at the swivel but the sench was still there.Not sure if I burned the line when I tied it or maybe the line got weak in the cold water(about 41degrees).I usally always wet my line before I sench the knot down but maybe I forgot.Some times the bites are far and few between so it does get frustrating when that happens.I catch alot of these fish so I know I had my drag set right and I am using a 7'10"mag med loomis and this rod works incredible on very large(15-19lbs)steelhead.Maybe I will just leave the flouro alone and use it just for bass.GB...Jim

[Phil]

wow!
Jim , on the Eel river down here, all I ever used and still use is Trilene Xt nio smaller than 12 lb. and mostly 17lb...The rocks are very unforgiving in this river !

Jigs

[leachman90]

I never use the power pro when I am drift fishing only when I am bobber fishing because it floats and it is a quick hook-set.Glad to here you guys down there grt the chance to chase other big fish besides the monster bass you have.If I had my way I would be bassin all year around if the weather would permit it.Just to darn cold up here for 1 or 2 bites aday.GB..Jim

[MrSkeeter]

Jim,

What knot were you using?? Like I said before in my last post here in this thread, the knot for light line is very critical for fluorocarbon line.

One easy way to test that with fluorocarbon line is to tie a simple overhand knot and pull on the line between the line. You can break the line VERY EASY this way. Then tie another knot like a cinch knot and repeat! Difference is amazing. Even on heavy line like 15-20# test, you can 'feel' the difference this way.

I'm recommending to everyone to use a San Diego knot for light line applications (either mono or fluorocarbon).

[mark poulson]

Chris,
When I've tried tieing the San Diego knot with flouro, I always get a buggered end at the knot, no matter how much spit I use, or how slow I draw it up.
Is there a trick to it?

[MrSkeeter]

Mark,

Well, I pull the tag end and the other end together a little bit. Then pull the main line till the knot is close the hook. Then both the main line and the main line ... and repeat.

When you pull both the main and tag end, the knot will form. When pulling the main line, it will pull the knot closer to the hook end. The trick is to do this slowly so as to form a good knot. Sometimes, it takes two or three different iterations to get it down. Don't hurry the process or you will get a bad knot. This has worked for me ... give it a try.

[leachman90]

Hey Chris,I was using the same double loop knot I use on my braided line.This isn't the 1st time I have had the flouro break on me.Usally I catch it before I start castingthough.Just letthis one slide by me.Thanks forthe responce.GB...Jim

[swimbait]

Mark,

A trick with the san diego knot...

Don't spin the hook to twist the line. Instead hold the two middle strands of line between your fingers and wrap the tag end one wrap at a time around the doubled line, making sure the wraps don't overlap eachother. Then cinch it down with a little spit. The knot will form a perfect set of wraps that sit one on top of another.

If you have too many wraps the knot will collapse and the wraps will overlap eachother. No good! It's tricky and time consuming to do that knot. Even after lots of practice I still get it wrong sometimes and have to cut it and re-tie. It may seem impossible to get it right when you first try to do it that way but it does work.

When you cinch it up though it's all worth it. No fraying or frizzy action right above the knot. I've had great success with that method.

[Rick K of Ca]

I started using GAMMA fluorocarbon line in about May this year, used it
for about 30 days on the water with out changing the line. What can I say ,lasted a long time and very good!
Rick k of Ca

[dockboy]

Well, the advice everybody has given is good. IMO, Vanish had gone down a notch in quality in the last couple years. Don't ask me why but it just seems the quality on the line has gotten worse. I started off my flouro applications with Vanish and actually didn't find it too bad. I liked for finesse, and it actually held up pretty well to heavy cover. But last year, I began to notice nicks and weak spots in every spool I bought. Brand new line, right off the spools and it would break. I checked it out and found like half a dozen nicks and weak spots, even down near the bottom of the spool.
I use the P-Line flouroclear. I like it a lot, and I'm going to try their pure flouro here soon. Heard lots of good stuff about it...

[DeltaDan]

Does anyone ever tie a Marlin Knot with Floro ? I understand that it has less impingement than a Polymer Knot and retains near 100% of line strength. Is this true?

[mark poulson]

*NM*

[MrSkeeter]

That Marlin Knot is not too different than the Berkley braid knot ...

[hang'emhigh]

You said the break was 3' from the tip. I know that means 3 feet. Did you mean to say three feet or three inches? Three feet from the tip towards the reel or three feet from the tip away from the reel?

One thing I have noticed with fluro is that it hates friction and heat, which is why everyone immediately talks about wetting the line real good before you cinch a knot.

Being the big spender that I am, I recently bought myself a spool of Triple Fish Fluro. I was thinking they make a good economical mono, maybe their fluro is just as good. At a price as little as 5.50 for 200 yds depending on the lb. test, I figured, "What the heck," I'll give it a shot. It is made in Germany; the supposed home of fluro manufacturing. Well, this stuff is junk. You get what you pay for in this case. I did not even need to use it on the water to figure that out. I was in the garage just wrapping the line (15 lb test) around both my hands and testing out its stretch and strength. I noticed after doing this for only a few seconds that the section of the line that was in between my finger tips was worn half way through the entire diameter of the line. Surrounding the new worn spot were the split ends to which you referred. The heat and friction caused by my fingers caused this to happen. Now, if my fingers and hands can cause this, think about what a day in the sun and friction from guides of a rod can do when fighting fish, rocks or "tree" pounders. No matter how good your guides are on a rod there will always be some friction. Some lines probably have better heat/friction tolerances than that junky Triple Fish, but to an extent you are going to get some of this with all Fluro. It is the nature of the beast or material. I have tried the same experiment with the Vanish, and it happened to not nearly to the same extent as the Triple Fish.

It's been awhile since I have taken my physics classes, and I am no engineer, but if you take a taut line and slide it across another solid object (i.e. guides, boat, rocks, trees, itself when tying a knot, etc.) it is going to create heat. At this point fluro does not do well with very little heat. There may not be as much heat created underwater due to the cooling effect of the water, but I do no know how much of a difference that makes. The biggest problem I would bet would be the guides.

Hopefully, there will be some improvement to the molecular structure of fluro or a coating in the future to better handle friction/heat.

[mark poulson]

Funny you mention line guide friction.
For a long time, whenever I put Megastrike on my lures, I wipe the exess off on the line above the lure, and on the line guides, as much as I can, so my hands aren't slimmy. I still use a rag to wipe them, but I always figured the extra scent that might transfer to the line would put a chum slick in the water leading to my lure. I never thought of how it might coat the guide and cut down line friction.
I guess I'm just an accidental geneass!

[Johnny C]

But I am not sure of your problem..You catch fifty and then break a fish off..That dosen't sound all that bad to me. Gamma saves my but because I don't retie enough..With the light lines (YES YOU GET MORE BITES) this time of year and the fish lookin for craws in the shale you are gonna break some off..

[Phil]

THREE FOOT DOWN FROM THE TIP OF THE ROD.........I ALSO NOTICED TODAY , JUST HAPPENED TO GLANCE OVER TO MY JIG ROD WHICH BY THE WAY "HAD 17LB FLOUR ON IT" TWO SPOTS ON THE LINE LIKE SPLIT HAIR ENDS LIKE THE LINE WAS PEELING AGAIN TRILENE TRANS....FLORO.................I WONDER IT THE TRILENE FATIGUES VERY FAST AND STARTS TO BREAK DOWN AS SOON AS IT HITS THE WATER AND AIR ??

CHANGING FOR SURE !! ALL LINE WAS LESS THAN TWO WEEKS OLD ... 10LB 14LB & 17LB ALL FRAID SPOTS NONE HAD BEEN IN ROCKS WHERE THE LINE WAS FOUND BAD , FURTHER DOWN THE REELS...

THANKS
JIGS

[Joe Bruce]

I find I have to baby florocarbon. you cant reel over a backlash at any time, you must pick it out now! and be very carfull not to pull to hard. the best thing to cut florocarbon is florocarbon. also I think its like bailing wire, if bent over and over in one spot it tends to break easier.