I had a "Pro" tell me......

[BassNCop]

One = If I can't get out to pre-fish then I was waisting time and money entering tourneys. So I agreed and basically quit entering tourney's where "pro's" are present and the entry fee's are high.

Two = If I'm fishing with plastics, such as worms and other smaller plastics (other than swimbaits), I was once again waisting time and money in tourneys.

How do you guys and gals feel about it? I'm kinda taking his advice and staying away from tourneys. He's right! I'm saving money and time! I think I will just enter "fun" local tourney's and try the "Future Pro" tour.

Also, I still have this arguement about "pro's" fishing against amatuers for the same purse in team tourneys. Just doesn't seem fair. Some will say....stay home then. I agree and will until the rules change.

[Calistar]

I fish tournaments and compete against pro's. I fish tournaments because A.) I love to fish and B.) I love to compete. As long as I am enjoying my day on the water, I never consider it wasting money. I throw whatever baits I think will help me get the largest bag on that particular day....plus I normally use baits that I like to throw AND that I believe in, which helps helps in the all important "confidence factor".

My advice would be to go out, compete, have fun...don't worry be happy....catch some fish and let the chips, er...trophies fall where they may.

GregH.

[Bill K]

I fish for fun, no not look at it as wasteing money. Sure I donate towards the cause, but that is part of the game in anything. I have fished against pro's and lost most of the time to them, but on the other hand I beat a few also.
As far as pre-fishing, it can help, but I have seen it hurt and make no difference. If you can do so, do it, as you are fishing. If not, do not worry about it.
Each make our own choice's, main thing is have fun, meet new people and try hard to catch the largest weight or big fish and go with whatever occurs. Life is too short to worry over little things.
Bill K

[Fishin' Dave]

There's a lot of truth to it.

Strip it down to a pure numbers deal and yeah; if you ain't practicing or throwing the baits to win, what a waste of money.

On the other hand, look around your house and see what's useless. If you still enjoy what ever it is, or it is emotionaly valuble then it isn.t a waste.

[Guest]

But, some people are adrenaline junkies and love the thrill of competition.. In fact, if I am not fishing a tourney it kinda gets boring! I love that thrill of competing, always have and fishing is just a great way to get that feeling while doing something I enjoy..

This year, I am making the jump to fish as a pro after doing fairly well in team tournaments for a few years (at least making my entry fees back for an entire season.) With that said, I am planning on donating my money to the big sticks this year, but knowing full well that if I put in the time, effort and energy it takes to succeed at fishing then I can become a player in these events. If at some point I become unwilling to put in that time, effort and energy I will give up tournaments as well (I doubt that happens anytime soon.)

Other people just want to get away from it all and go fishing. More power to them, I am sure there is a healthy number of individuals like that. Plus there are those who would love to compete but, just don't have the time, effort and energy to put into it for whatever reason (money, family, location, etc.)

Basscop, I take it your are a cop. With cops in my family, working with cops and playing football with cops I must say most of them are adrenaline junkies... kinda goes with the job I guess, having your life on the line keeping our society safe for nerds like me, I am guessing you get your fill of adrenaline!

Anyway, there is room enough for both tournament fisherman and fun fisherman... and hopefully each will get what he/she is looking for... be it the thrill of competition and/or the relaxation of being away from it all!

The problems lie when a fun fisherman who decides to fish tournaments and does so without putting in the time, effort and energy it takes to succeed. It's not so much a problem but, it certainly could leave a person left to feel like they are wasting their time and money. This doesn't just go for fishing.. it goes for anything in life. For instance, I am sure you are a good cop, because you put in the time, effort and energy to become just that! I know for a fact Jimmy Reese (recent winner of the Stren event) Put in hundreds of hours preparing for the Stren Clear Lake event... not to mention the probably tens-of-thousands of hours he has put in on the water and honing his skills over the past 20-30 or so years of his life.

The great thing about fishing is, it is an equal opportunity sport.. the fish don't care if you are tall or short, fat or skinny, ugly or uglier have a $70,000 Z boat or a $16,000 Tracker... They don't care if you have G-Loomis rods or walmart rods... When it all comes down to it... anyone can put in the time, effort and energy and compete at any level!

Aaron Martens, KVD, everyone's favorite Ike and the likes weren't born with the skill to track fish and catch them.. They all spent many hours on the water figuring them out. Granted Aaron sure seems like he was born with gills, but truth is (and many so-cal anglers can attest) that guy spent every waking moment he could on the water learning how to be as good as he is. Sports like Basketball, Football etc.. you need to be born with some ability to run or jump or be of a certain size.. but, fishing, like golf, bowling and several other sports is a learned skill and can be attained by anyone who wants to put in the time, effort and energy. If someone doesn't want to put in the time, effort and energy to compete and they don't want to waste their money and time then it is probably highly recommended that they stick to fun fishing or fishing club tournaments where the other anglers are of the same mindset.

Ok I am rambling, I am going to bed! I have a magazine to finish in the AM!

[NaCl]

First, I heard Jimmy Reese won the Stren with darter heads and Roboworms. I believe Greg Gutierrez won the BassMaster Open at Shasta in 2004 with plastics. Sure, reaction baits account for some impressive wins, but plastics have their days too.

Second, if you enjoyed golf, you'd pay $50 to $100 for a day of golfing...green fees, equipment cost, cart rental, a couple buckets of balls for the driving range, and of course, the inevitable side bet with your buddies. If you love bass fishing, a $120 team entry fee ends up costing you about the same as a day of golf and you have WAY more fun! Plus, if you're fishing a big event like Korny's team circuit, you have a chance to win a couple grand. Sure, you might have to get "lucky" to do it, but if you're already going fishing primarily for the fun, then all the rest is just a bonus.

The "pro" vs "am" thing really comes down to viewing bass fishing as a source of income. If you're fishing more money than pleasure, then you BETTER put in your pre-fish time and develop skill with reaction baits to compliment your plastics.

Good luck!

.....NaCl

[bassin4fun]

well i see it as in there running the boat and if there fishing a differnt area then your prefishing did no good....theres not always a reaction bite..

[Rich_Thiel]

Hmmmm,

Some where your mental outlook towards Tournaments had been shifted. I would have to agree with the Pro in what he stated to you in pre-fish'in.

Here's mind, and I'll standby it....

1. Have confidence in yourself going out the door in the morning.
2. Do what gut feeling tells you.
3. Dont be intimidated by big names that have entered into the Tournament. They themselves have ALL taken Pooos in Tournaments. Just watch the results in BASS or FLW, WON.
4. Just remember one thing, alway leave room to learn no matter how many years you have fishing.
5. The most important part. Your not fishing against the field, your fishing against the fish and the fish ALWAYS has the advantage. Its up to YOU to even the odds with the fish.

Plastics, combination of lead designs etc. Its up to you to learn how to use whats available within your boat at the time of pursuit.
This Sport of Bass Fishing is a think'in man's game, the same has any other individual entered sport.

Just my Thoughts on the matter

Rich Thiel

[swimbait]

I think it was Magic Johnson who said, "the only thing that matters is if you can put it in the hoop."

It doesn't matter if you can prefish and it doesn't matter what lures you use to catch the fish. It does matter if you have the heaviest weight on tournament day.

A rule of thumb that seems to be true for me is this... If you are on twice the weight of fish that you think you need to get a check in the tournament, go for it. If you're on just the weight you need to get a check, you're gambling. If you're on nothing, stay home. Because no matter how good you are, if you're on 30 pounds in prefish, odds are you'll get 15 to 20 in the tournament, and if you're on 15lbs in prefish odds are you'll get less than that.

At a basic level, tournament fishing is just legalized gambling. It's more complex because there are a lot of intangibles, but basically you're making a bet on yourself. Fishing is an addictive thing and I think it attracts people with addictive personalities, just like gambling. It's real easy to get caught up in tournament fishing and want to start chasing your losses but if you're honest with yourself, you'll know when to stop and do like you're describing, just go back and enjoy fishing for what it is. If you find yourself catching twice the weight you would need to win a tournament again, you'll know it's time to enter

[BassNCop]

I just read some great responses here and I Thank You! I was feeling a bit discouraged after talking with this person and you guys rebounded me. I do need that adrenaline rush as previously stated and fishing does fullfill that on weekends (Probably why I love to go 70 plus at launch). Anyway...I think I also need to change the way I approach a tourney. If I want to compete I need to go after the bigger fish and leave to squirrels for others. I still am going to back off on most tourney series until I can get my "expertise" up to speed to keep up with the "Big Guns". I was told early on that the best place to start tourney fishing was with clubs. I ignored that and jumped right in. I was wrong. Maybe that alone knock my confidence level down. Well time to cure that and then maybe get back in the game. Thanks everyone!

[ash]

I dont know where you are from but Folsom Bass Team meets every first Wedensday of the month. We have Firemen,cops, DR's and other professionals that love to compete and fish. We also have guest speakers that share thier ideas.


Look it up www.folsombassteam.com or check on the is board under clubs.

[EGBASS]

One = If I'm fishing with plastics, such as worms and other smaller plastics (other than swimbaits), I was once again waisting time and money in tourneys.

I find that humorous. Lots of big tournaments have been won, not only on plastics, but small finesse presentations (it isn't always about larger lizards and creature baits). Recently, I was catching fish behind a pro on a darterhead and the pro switched to the same colored wormed and got hammered on his first pitch to a shelf.

[RougeBass]

Well I have to throw my .02 in here! First of all I agree with everyone there is not always a reaction bite. But the pre-fishing part....First of all it is not as easy as you would think to try to find someone to pre-fish with for a Pro/Am or any kinda of draw tourney, and me personally do not want to leave my boat sitting in a parking lot at a boat ramp. Second alot of guys in know are fishing on the Co-Angler side due to their work scheduals. Third I think a Pro telling a C0-Angler that if you don't pre-fish your wasting your money is out of line. With out Co-Anglers or Ams whatever you want to call us the Pro/Ams with fold. Lack of Ams means Pro on Pro in the boat and someone boat parked in the parking lot at the dock.

My advice to any Co-Angler is to do your best to do your homework talk to your friends, read reports and yes pre-fish if you can. But if you can't don't let that discourage you into entering a Pro/Am just be honest with your Pro and let them what you know about the lake.

[Randy Walker]

BassNcop,

As you can see this form has once again given some good advice for you to think about. One way that I have looked at the tourney scene is that you are paying you money to be on the water, maybe get some money back and make new friends. If you can afford to enter the events, dont let any pro tell you that you are wasting your $$$ - that pro had to start at the lower ranks at one time. I look at the money spent as a guided trip that you have a chace to get your money back if not more. In the bigger events, the pro's have done their homework and some of them would not want to know about you water or ideas anyway. If your gonna be out that day fishing anyway - get into the event - you never know what will happen!!

[Andy Giannini]

What you were told was not constructive criticizism.

I would lay out a series of goals, starting at a local level, working up to regional, or greater.

From a cost standpoint, its better to start in clubs, that don't travel all over the state. Learn what you need to become competitive and win at that level before moving up. Study your local waters that have bigger tournaments, establish what kinds of weights are needed to become a threat. Catch THOSE kinds of fish, on a fairly regular basis, build confidence in your techniques, and abilities.

Sneak out and prefish prior to bigger events. By this time you will know if you should sign up or not. Heck, you can always NOT enter, fish the same hours, and compare your fish to what the other guys caught in the event.

There are many negative people that don't help at all, avoid them. Find an angler like yourself with similar skills and aspirations, and become a good partner. The learning curve is accelerated with a good partner, create an atmosphere where learning and discovery about the fishing seems unlimited. That any goal can be attained, set them, achieve them, and set greater ones. I am going to quote Barrack here,

"Good partner is gold."

Its fun to fish in tournaments, I am taking time off from them but its still fun just to show up fish like hell and have a great time. I really enjoy seeing everybody, even if I come in dead last.

.02 A.G.

[Bob Simard]

You're Damn Skippy!

I get bored as hell fishing by myself - "fun fishing", with nothing on the line. I'm either preparring for a tournament or out doing something else - i.e. "fun fishing" with my boys, ages 6 and 7. But that's more a family activity, we might just as well be on the driving range banging golf balls. - more about quality time with the family, versus fishing.

Yes - I know there are those of you out there who like just going out and fishing for fun. While it don't get my rocks off, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it and certainly not putting you down. It's simply not my thing.

Adrenaline? Heck - at the last A/C ProAm TOC on Clearlake I hooked a 6.56 pounder on the last cast as my flight was running hard for checkin. I could see/hear them flying across the lake. I KNEW I'd get rid of the last 3 pounder in the well. Damn was I amp-ing when that big gal went in the well and the little dude came out. We were running WOT towards checkin in seconds! Adrenaline - You betcha!

That's why I do it....

To the Questions/Statements.

1. More Prefish = More time on the water.

NO - more Quality time on the water = a Quality Prefish.

and yes - more is better

More Quality Time on the water gives you better intel from which to make decisions/adjustments on the water.

Example -

I spent a full week on the water before BASS Clearlake last fall. 99 percent of it was a waste of time. I was totally spun, and it got worse and worse. I'd catch decent fish, but couldn't figure out why. No patterns lead to junk weights and a missed cut.

At A/C ProAm there 5 weeks later I spent 2 very focused days on the water prefishing. By noon on the first day I knew what I was doing and where. By the end of the second day of Prefish I had 4 solid areas that were kicking out 3.5 - 4 pounders and 5 backup areas. I was dialed, focused, and knew I'd do well in the event.

For me personally, if I'm in touch with what's going on in the system, what the variables (fish included) in the system are doing at a given time, I've got a leg up. You must have a Quality Prefish to figure that out.

2. Plastics? Forgive me and no offense to your buddy but that's just dumb. There's a time and place for big baits - reation baits but it certainly isn't all the time.

As far as the "Pro" versus "Future Pro" versus "Teams" - to me, that's just semantics. It's all about the competition. I love to compete and I'd go head to head with anyone, on any water. Sure, I'd loose most if not all the time against the better/best guys on the circuit but damn it makes me fish so much harder.... and when you get on them and get that confidense going, it's an awesome feeling..

-02 cents.

Bob Simard

[NaCl]

*NM*

[Mike]

Fun Fishing??? Whats that? If I'm bass fishing, I'm "pre-fishing" for something. There is always the next tournament no matter how far off it is.


Oh yeah, Fun fishing......I remember now.....Thats Sturgeon, Striper, Salmon, Shad, Catfish, Etc....fishin'.

[Dewayne]

Now thats fun fishing.

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

You got it Dewayne, especially if you are using ultra-lite gear..All fishing should be fun, if it isn't, then you ain't doing it right..

mac

[Jim V.]

The big fish of the tournament at Clear lake - 12+ pounds - was caught by an Am, 6" purple Robo worm on a drop shot with 6# test. 2nd place on the Am side was with 8# test and 7" power worm on Spot-remover jig heads. Jimmy won on darter head Robo worms. There were several others in the top 20 that finessed 'em. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but the finesse guys did prety well in this one.

[Marty]

I have had a lot of Pro’s tell me things – some of the instruction was good and some not so good. I have fished with guys that I think are the best in pursuit of the Bass but don’t call themselves Pro’s and vice versa.

Dollar for Dollar entering a Bass Tournament is a bad investment - period. Just like buying a car, you will never get your money out of it but I don’t see a lot of people walking. Take two tours in California, FLW and Future Pro. In the FLW the pay out is 1 in 3 and that mean 2 are out of luck. In the Future Pro the pay out is 1 in 5 that means 4 will get nothing. I see I have a better chance of making it in the FLW then in the Future Pro (pay back wise) but I’m doing both of them. If you want to do better with your money invest it the stock market – there you will get a return. But then again you can eat a hot dog and not the stack but both make the same thing – a turd.

I for one will take the Stack and the fish the Tournament.

[Chad L. Dwyer]

BassNCop,

I've been fishing Pro Am's for about 17 years and while most of my time has been on the pointed end of the boat I did get my start on the hind-end.

My Dad was my pre-fish partner and he chose to stay an AM therefore, once I moved to the "Pro" side, I also became a pretty huge advocate for those folks that were our non-boater partners.

On your first comment about pre-fishing, I don't really think that pre fishing as an am is an absolute necessity however, there is absolutly nothing wrong with getting a feel for current conditions and general patterns. After all, you are there to catch fish too!

I don't agree with the "waste of time" comment that was made to you. While spending your own precious time on the water trying to figure things out for game day, it's actually pretty hard to get a seasoned Pro to give up their own game day plans on the slight chance that you might have actually found something greater than him (or her).

If you chose to pre-fish, make sure you try and figure out a pattern for YOU, that will work for YOU, from the back of the boat, no matter where you go. Always keep in mind that even if you don't figure things out on your own, you can always learn something from anyone you get to share time on the water with.

That's the beauty of the Pro-Am concept. You don't have to go head to head with someone in the same boat and even if you don't have any practice time, there is a good chance you'll learn something "for tomorrow".

There have been quite a few occasions for me, where I felt I had drawn a non-boater that really knew his stuff and have had situations like that pan out. At the same time, there is nothing worse than a true amateur that won't shut up about the 45 lb. bag he caught yeaterday!

Don't get caught up in this bait or that bait is better. It's not rocket Science and there's not many, if any secrets! If you spend your time fishing your confidence your results will grow and stay constant.

Fish for you! I hope I've helped ya.

Chad L. Dwyer

[RougeBass]

Well stated Chad.