Has the bass boat industry hit a price-point barrier?

[Fishin' Dave]

I think part Dean's point was in reference to a full time tournament guy.

Everybody knows housing has gone up, DUH

Some guys will always have the $$

What was the price of a 19' Ranger 10 yrs ago? 7 years ago? 5 years ago, 2 years ago, and today? That would be helpful to put together a scientific graph of price increase.

The only way to know will be to wait and see.

[JT-Madera]

And then when I called Ranger for a part, the guy who answered told me he had worked there 14 years and still only makes $12 per hour.... go figure.....

JT

[Saechao]

ya man u every tho to ur self how much a senko really cost. 5o cents for just one. but hey they catch fish

[DAKINE198]

"AINOKEA" translates to " I DON'T CARE" in Pidgin' english pronounced AY-NO-KAY-A , meaning LIFE IS GOOD so AINOKEA.

[sTony]

Hey Hawaiian Style 'DaKine',

I just booked my vacation for March in Maui. Been there a dozen or so times so I'm by no means a newbie but the wifey is and we're both looking forward to it ALOT!!! She wanted to do some activities while we're there so I went ahead and booked a whale watching trip, a kayak/snorkel trip and, for me, a horseback trip as well.

Been a few years since I've been there so I can't wait to get there and get to some of my favorite haunts including Kimo's in Lahaina for prime rib, yeah baby!

sTony

[Fishin' Dave]

$12/hour?

I know it's Arkansas, but ....?

I was surprised.

Maybe they have proffit sharing

[Rod Martin]

Does Ranger belong to Genmar, pluging them out one at a time along with how many other brands ? Seems with as many boat brands as Genmar omns, they would be using standarized parts fiber matting , fiberglass gel bought from there own wholesale outlet and the price of boats would be held in check. So what else would inflat the prices of boats?

[Dan McKenzie]

I think sTony is spot on, there is a boat out there in nearly every persons price range, be it new, used, glass, or aluminum. We're all looking for something a little different and if your patient you will find what your looking for.

I read a recent article that many of the manufacturers were going to be re-acessing their mid-priced boats, looking to generate more sales in that category. In all honesty it doesn't matter to some of us, some will never buy a brand new boat, some don't want a used, some want this or that and have their cake and eat it to. Like the guy who can' see himself without ever having a boat payment, I can never envision having to make a monthly payment.

[DAKINE198]

CAN SNEAK ME IN YOUR CARRY ON OUT WOT?????

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

that means the they will probably be paying for that boat for 30 years or until they die which ever comes first. Even if you sell your home and buy another, you will have less of a down payment on the new house and therefor will in essence still be making payments on your boat.
My brother in law refinanced his house 23 years ago. one of the things that he bought with the extra cash was a chain saw. The chain saw has been dead and burried in a landfill some where for at least 10 years but he is still making payments on it

[Dan McKenzie]

Even with economy scale purchasing and multiple manufacturing operations consumables and raw materials are escalating in astronomical proportions. The costs are all up, oil is probably the number one driving force, it affects every operation along the way up to and including delivery. Then throw in payroll taxes, compensatory insurances, health insurance, power and lighting. The list is endless. I just finished meeting with the CEO of one of our customers asking for their suppliers to buy into 120 days NET, 90 days -1%. the cost of money is 0.67% a month. It's just another case where we'll have to make a hard decision to look for revenue elsewhere or let it chisel down our margin. On a bright note somewhere down the road your children will all be earning 6 figure incomes, too bad it won't be worth what that same income was worth 10 years ago.

[Fishin' Dave]

Jim, that must have been one hell of a saw!

There IS a huge problem with the Refi-boom; and I see it every day. Many folks are losing ther homes because they can NOT refi as they have taken all their equity out, values went down and they are losing their homes, but still driving new cars, RVs and boats.

Look, I think Stoltz's post about a boat for evey price is acurate. I think guys think they NEED a 21' boat with a 225 to compete with everyone else. Fact of the matter is that if someone is out there looking for a boat, consider an 18ft with a 150 over a 21ft with a 225 if it leaves you more $$ each month. The 18ft boat WILL catch fish.

As materials go, does it take oil to make the fiberglass resin for the boats? If so that would be a cost increase. Also, the truck driver who delivers the boat has to charge more with Diesel at $2.75/gal. I would think they could use the Cosco/Walmart strategy and buy in bulk for less.

Over head is low in Arkansas. Shoot, gas is under $2 per gallon there! They don't have a governor like Arnie giving away free helthcare so taxes and workers comp is low.

Someone answered my question about motor cost. $100/horsepower was his answer. At that formula, a 225 would cost $22,500!! So, that would make the glass boat cost you around $25k based on a $50k sticker. $25k for 21 feet of fiberglass with a little carpet, some gas tanks, electronics and a steering wheel seems steep.

This has been an interesting thread!

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

No matter what there are always going to be some people who drive Mazerattis and others who will be driving a old used VW Beetle. And the truth also is that they will both do 65 on the freeway.

A lot of the foreclosures are also because of people financing their houses at a low interest variable rate and now are getting an encrease in payments that they cannot afford because their interest rates have gone up excessively.

[Dan McKenzie]

Dave you make it all sound so simple. Cheap labor in Arkansas, I won't argue that wages are less, but have you ever looked at a boat making operation-I haven't but I'm going to guess that molds and fixtures/tooling, as well as some machinery is involved, engineering, prototyping and testing, sponserships and corporate events, fancy catalogs with nice photography, dealer promotions none of this is free, it all is added to the unit price of every boat that goes out their door. I have had this conversation with too many to remember, we make sheetmetal and machined parts, what could there be to it, cut and bend, maybe a little weld that shouldn't cost much.

[Fishin' Dave]

No no, I'm sure it is expensive

I wanted to make the point not to compare costs as we know them in California.

Also, what brilliant business plan to locate in the middle of the country, and easy access to the main customers in the south.

A friend told me (he's on the inside, sponsored, well connected) last year that Ranger did a study on what results come from sponsoring anglers and events. The result, NO SALES INCREASE! Their name is so well established that guys bought the boat because they wanted it, not from advertising. As a result, you have seen less Ranger sponsor $$ out there with the exception of the FLW series.

Jim, the varriable rate problem with peoples home mortgages are the fault of the home owner. I have personally been involved with folks who took an intial low 3 year payment with the knowledge of it going up. What these folks who got in trouble did was after being in the house for a year, they looked around and said, gee we live so close to the Delta, lets buy a boat. It's only $200/ month. Then they looked around and thought an RV would be cool to have to take the boat out of town. It only costs $175/month. Then they bought new furnature at Levitz with no intetest and payments for 3 years. Also, new landscaping and a island BBQ and patio furnature was bought at Home Depot on their card with no interest and payments for one year. Well, 3 years came and went and that $1200/month payment on that $450k house changed to a payment designed to pay off the house in 30 years plus make up the 3 year defincy to the tune od $3000/ month. THEY FREAKED! How are we going to pay for the RV and boat along with the furnature and Home Depot? These loans are designed to get you in, before the price goes up in a hot market or if you have little or no down payment. They are also designed to be refinanced in 3 years to a better program. Also in that 3 years, the hope is you will make more $$, the value of the house will go up, and you won't take on more frivolus debt.

As far as FREE ENTERPRISE goes, that word has been used as a cover for corporate greed for too long now. I'm all for free enterprise and having the government leave me be. My question is how much $$ is enough? So building boats for less in China makes you $50million a year instead of $20 million. It is free enterprise in deed, but what is the cost of your soul (oooh that's deep) BTW, we will soon become the cheap labor country; just ask Toyota and BMW!

[Mike]

Dave, you takling about me??

[Fishin' Dave]

Yes Mike, When I said "brilliant business plan by locating in the middle of the country" I was talking about you

[Fishin' Dave]

Mark,

I didn't want to start a market place ecnomic theory debate.

If you are charging $2/jig and people pay it, then you've priced them correctly.

If you can charge $5/jig and people pay it, then sweet.

Ranger charges $50k+ for top of the like 521 and people buy it, sweet.

If people can no longer afford to buy your product, you're screwed.

[Dan McKenzie]

The obvious answer to your question is "no", plain and simple.

[Rick G]

There have been some really good points on this post. As a Bass boat dealer since 1981, I have been very lucky to watch the growth of the boat business on the westcoast. When I started Anglers Marine in 1981 a fully rigged 20' bassboat with a 200hp motor was $15,000.00 out the door. That same boat today is in the 40-60k range depending on the mfg. The average price increase for a 18-20ft boat is about $1500.00 a year and has been the same since I have had the doors open. They NEVER go down. Sure models change and Mfg's come and go, but they always go up. Here's why. What was the price of gas in 1981? $1.09 a gallon? All boats are built out of Petroleum products, resin, acetone, gelcoat and as the price of gas goes up so will the price of boats, FOREVER is my guess. Will we hit a ceiling, who knows, but as Mike Phua says the ones that can afford to spend $50-60k will. This is not just a Ranger issue, all highline bassboats are expensive. That is why we offer all sizes and prices. The biggest culprit besides gas in price increases is engine technology cost's. The motors of today are not your dads outboards. But they are also much more fuel effecient and definitly faster. In 1981 a 150o/b was $3500.00, today it is $12,000.00. Those are the facts, so enjoy each day on the lake as best you can. Rick Grover
.

[Jeff Jewell]

The Ranger comercials say "still building legends one at a time" I take that as meaning the fisherman not the boat. 10 yeasr ago the commercial said " We still build them, one at a time" that was the boats.....

[NaCl]

You have a nice perspective with a lot of interesting history.

.....NaCl

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

of course they need top be the same quality as yours

[Darkman]

My biggest fear is that Fishing is be comming sort of like golf was a sport for the wealthy. I am plannining a boat purchase in the near future, I want a Ranger but I will most likely get a stratos(nothing wrong with either boat, its all about the green), when its all said I will save up my pennies,go to the Anglers Marine and plop down my coin rolls and get a boat, I save up when it comes to my fishing,being that a rod ,reel any thing(wife and kid come first)

Tourneys cost, rods cost, reels cost,boats cost I just dont want it to be like golf and flyfishing were. a sport where only the rich can play

[912nitro]

Cause they can ????Do YOU do EVERYTHING you can do?? i say no........... why not?????
I CAN afford a new bass boat. I dont pay notes on boats anymore, & when i did it was only for 3 to 5 years.
I bought a new boat in 1995 & 2 of my friends did to. Guess what..... their still paying on them. can you imagine? they have paid the same in intrest as the original price of the boat.
I dont know you, or your age. but somewhere you have to draw the line on principles.
Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, or top 3. he can do anything he wants. why is his house only worth 113 miollion when he can have a house worth 10 times that amount?
None of know the answer to that, & Bill probabally dont either, but its a matter of PRINCIPLE. REALITY............ get it ???
Anyone who attemps to do everything they are capable of doing is , or will become most misrable.
Somewhere we have to enjoy what we have.........
Aquiring * things * is not the the key to success. but enjoying what you have is one of lifes successes...........

[Mike Phua]

912 your post is every bit true.

My post reflects the facts coming from the Boat Business itself "Cause they can" represents the fact they have the DISPOSABLE income to do so.

I work for the Largest Chaparral dealership in the World! We sell around 700 boats a year new and used.

The boats I sell are high end family boats in the $50,000 to $300,000 range and the luxury sportfishers we sell go into the Million dollar price tags.

You'd be floored if I told you what the average guys makes that buys a $60,000 family recreational boat and you would probably need to sit down if I told you what the average guy makes who buys a million dollar sportfisher.

Remember the average annual household income in the United States is $67,000. Keep in mind that, that figure includes two income earners in most cases. Being from California "land of the over inflated house prices" some of us, me included pay that much in mortgage per year.

People who buy boats in the $50,000+ range typically have an annual income in the $100,000 to $250,000 range. Again this is not a guess it's a marine industry FACT.

People who buy $1,000,000 boats average $50k to $150k plus a MONTH! Yes MONTHLY! Sold one to a guy who makes $4 MILLION A MONTH! Not gross receipts either. Gross income.

[912nitro]

LOL.............

[Barry Watson]

Dean, this is a great subject about sales in general, not just boats. I recall in the 70's ( I think) when KB and some of the guys brought in Riccos. I paid $25.00 for my first one. I knew in my heart that a $1.75 PoP R would catch just as many smallmouth over in Folsom, but I wanted a Ricco. I heard of them selling for $50.00 at tournaments. Now I am the same way about Yamamoto products. I can not recall worrying about the price. All I care about is the color and size and if it is available. I go back so far, that I once called Gary Yamamoto when he was at Lake Powell and had him pour a special worm and special color for me. He did it graciously and that sort of service coupled with a fantastic product has kept us loyal for what ,30 years? More? Same with boats, imo, there will always be a customer for the very best but customers for the other levels as well.

thanks for the subject.

,

[buddy brown]

I don't want to beat a dead horse here but the price of bass boats has a lot to do with the lack of competition among dealerships. Each dealership is given a fairly large geographic area in which to operate which in a sense gives that particular location what can be seen as a monopoly of sorts. If you buy a car there are several dealerships within a hour drive that are in direct competition with each other and the bargaining power goes to the buyer. The scarcity of boat dealerships results in dealership bargaining power. It is virtually impossible to get a great deal at a thriving boat dealership because if you don't like their offer someone else will. There is no two ways about it bass fishing is an expensive sport. If you look in your rod locker, all those rods and reels are more expensive than top notch set of golf clubs. Your boat payment is just as expensive as a priivate country club membership monthly dues. Not to mention tournament fees, boat and equipment maintenance etc.