Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

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sTony
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Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by sTony »

When a European freighter ditched its ballast water in the Great Lakes more than 20 years ago, it triggered a deadly alien invasion.

Today, that invasion has cost the lives of untold millions as well as costing billions of dollars to the economies of Canada and the United States.

And it is all happening underwater.

The first of the invaders were the small zebra mussels, discovered in 1988 in Lake St Clair, a small body of water between Lake Erie and Lake Huron. Not long afterwards, they were joined by the quagga mussel. The ecosystem of the Great Lakes began to change, probably irrevocably.

Native fish and algae began to die out as the zebra mussels, which attach themselves to rocks, filtered out the minuscule vegetation – phytoplankton – on which the whole ecology of the lakes is based.

And while the zebras covered the rocks, the quagga mussels began colonising the sandy bottoms with similar results. The boulders that covered the bottom of Lake Michigan for centuries, for instance, have now disappeared under a carpet of mussels and primitive plant life, while native species of fish have been starved out of existence.

The mussels have now spread to other lakes in Canada and to more than 20 US states after hitching rides on pleasure boats. In the Great Lakes themselves, the problems originally experienced in Lake Erie are now being replicated in the upper Great Lakes – Michigan, Huron and Superior – where the population has tripled in the past three years as the zebra mussels adapt to colder, deeper waters.

While local lake trout, salmon and whitefish become scarcer and skinnier, the one beneficiary has been the population of round gobies – another invasive species from the Black Sea – who thrive on the mussels, breed prolifically and are now the most abundant fish species found in parts of the lakes.

“We don’t necessarily know all the impacts, but we know enough to know that they are being catastrophic,â€
TopH2o
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Re: Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by TopH2o »

About 80 percent of the stuff you've posted here is not true.The fishing on the great lakes is better now then it ever has been. Because of the zebra mussels we have super clear water which has started a massive growth of aquatic vegatation. Where else in the US can you come in with 5 smallmouth for 28 pounds and not even get a check? I doubt very much that Lake Michigan's bottom is covered with zebra mussels considering that its avearge depth is about 1000 feet. I grew up on lake Erie & spent 25 summer vacations on lake Michigan. What you have posted here is very far form the truth and is very misleading to others.

Sport fishing has taken a hit but not because of the zebra mussels. Its just upsetting to me when I read such a statement obviously form someone that has no clue.
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Re: Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by drew »

sTony wrote:
Today, that invasion has cost the lives of untold millions
I stopped reading after the above statement. Seriously it "has cost the lives of untold millions". I have heard that the smallmouths are thriving off of the increased goby population.
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Ray L.
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Re: Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by Ray L. »

wow...
I guess there are some real smart guys on hear who know better than the scientific community......
I guess they are liars. I know for a fact that it costs the city of Chicago millions to make sure the intake pipes are clean from all the mussels that attach. They built extra intake pipes so while they clean 1 the other is open.
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Kelly Ripa
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Let's face the music here folks...

Post by Kelly Ripa »

Invasive specie are just that!
Remember ...What the Dormouse said...Feed your head!
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Re: Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by drew »

Maybe you misunderstood me. The article seems to over sensationalize the issue.

"Today, that invasion has cost the lives of untold millions as well as costing billions of dollars to the economies of Canada and the United States"

I'm not buying that they cost millions of lives and billons of dollars.

I believe they are invasive and bad in general.


Ray L. wrote:wow...
I guess there are some real smart guys on hear who know better than the scientific community......
I guess they are liars. I know for a fact that it costs the city of Chicago millions to make sure the intake pipes are clean from all the mussels that attach. They built extra intake pipes so while they clean 1 the other is open.
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sTony
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Re: Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by sTony »

Some folks crack me up. Ya know we're getting huge bags of fish here on the Delta for our largemouth limits. But we also know that there is a break down in our food chain here that could eventually change that dramatically.

Anyways, the article was forwarded to me and I decided to post it up here.

The key to the sentence that seems to have hit a chord with some is the follow up sentence:

"And it is all happening underwater. "

Of course they're not talking about human lives. :roll:

But they're dead on as to the costs incurred and revenues lost, in two countries and over several states, since the problem has been identified. :shock:

I'm also kind of in awe of the notion that anyone buys into this whole 'super clear water' as a good thing. Heck anybody that fishes the Delta and Clear Lake can tell ya the grimier the better. :wink:

sTony
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Re: Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by mark poulson »

It sucks that our waters are fouled by invasive species, our fishing is in jeporady(sp), and no one takes responsibility for stopping it.
I thought that's why we elect these clowns, to provide leadership.
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TopH2o

Post by John Barron »

I think if you do a little more research you will find some very interesting facts about the fisheries on the Great Lakes. You will find that some areas are now devoid of fish. The improvement of the fisheries you are talking about is temporary. The cost of maintenance of water delivery systems has reached the Billions. The amount of dead fish and wildlife is mounting. Please don't take my word for it, I'm certainly not an expert, "look it up". There is a lot of information available and I'm not talking emotional statements I'm talking about science and facts.

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Marc
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Re: TopH2o

Post by Marc »

I would caution to be very careful about drawing specific conclusions based on information we read in the newspapers, or even in scientific journals regarding invasive species and the damage they cause.

Generally speaking, we can mostly agree that they are bad and will be costly. That being said, nobody can predict how the future will pan out after invasives are introduced, and any assumption is exactly that, an assumption (and you know what they say about assumptions).

Whenever a change occurs in the environment, there are costs and benefits that constantly shift until an equilibrium is reached (often many years later). For example, yes zebra and quaqqa mussels clog intake pipes for water purveyors which creates a new cost. What isn't mentioned is that there is also a cost benefit to the water purveyor in that these prolific filter feeders remove tremendous loads of nutrients that reduces the treatment costs of raw surface water (turbidity is greatly reduced). Which way will the cost balance scale tip??? Who knows? But to proclaim the costs will be devastating may be a gross exaggeration or it may be accurate. Time will tell.

Parts of the Great Lakes are now devoid of life as a result of the mussels? I have yet to see conclusive evidence that indicates mussels are responsilbe; and since this occurred prior to the invasion as well I will take a wait and see attitude about this as well.

Sorry, but the idea that water clarity hurts the fishing by using the Delta as an example also doesn't convince me of anything. Smallmouths are very different than largemouths, and make a living primarily using their sense of sight, unlike largemouths who are more adept at using other senses to forage. Smallmouths simply have not adapted to turbid water, and using the Delta example just look at the limited population of smallmouths in Delta waters compared to largemouths.

Let me be clear...I consider invasives to be a bad thing because they change the ecological balance at a rapid pace. Once they establish a population, they will change the environment and they will cause new costs and changes in how we live our lives. We should prevent invasives at every opportunity.

That being said, the gloom and doom that many proclaim is often politically motivated and we should all question any conclusions drawn from emotional arguments that are not proven.

None of us can predict the harm invasives will ultimately create; none of us can predict the costs; and none of us can predict the benefits. The lack of knowledge is why we should be concerned, but instead of getting in a panic we should seek more information and keep making adjustments to the best of our ability. Arguments about whether invasives are good or bad are often nonproductive, and immaterial. Zebras and Quaggas are here, and it isn't likely any of us will get rid of them or prevent their spread (yes, we should try, and we can slow their spread which gives us more time to learn how to deal with them), but to argue about how they will affect our future is an exercise in futility.

When you read the gloom and doom stories, you might be wise to question the motives of the author.
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BigJeff
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Re: Invasive mussels killing Great Lakes from the bottom up

Post by BigJeff »

The fishing looks damn good to me. 93 lbs of smallies out of Erie.

Place Angler City, State Total
Weight
(lbs.ozs) Cash
Winnings
($) Merch
Bonus
($) Cash
Bonus
($) Total
Winnings
($)
1 KOTARO KIRIYAMA MOODY, AL 93.6 100,000 0 14,500 114,500
2 AARON MARTENS LEEDS, AL 85.1 30,000 0 0 30,000
3 EDWIN EVERS TALALA, OK 84.8 25,000 0 0 25,000
4 JOHN MURRAY PHOENIX, AZ 79.14 18,000 0 0 18,000
5 MICHAEL IACONELLI RUNNEMEDE, NJ 79.7 17,000 0 1,000 18,000
6 TODD FAIRCLOTH JASPER, TX 77.11 15,500 0 500 16,000
7 GARY KLEIN WEATHERFORD, TX 73.10 15,000 0 0 15,000
8 SHAW E GRIGSBY GAINESVILLE, FL 73.8 14,500 0 0 14,500
9 GLENN DELONG BELLVILLE, OH 73.3 14,000 0 0 14,000
10 MATT REED MADISONVILLE, TX 71.12 13,500 0 2,000 15,500
11 RICK MORRIS VIRGINIA BEACH, VA 71.1 12,500 0 0 12,500
12 GREG HACKNEY GONZALES, LA 70.4 12,300 0 0 12,300
13 JON BONDY WINDSOR, ON 54.15 10,800 0 0 10,800
14 FRED ROUMBANIS BIXBY, OK 54.7 10,700 0 0 10,700
15 BRIAN SNOWDEN REEDS SPRING, MO 54.4 10,600 0 0 10,600
16 JAMI FRALICK MARTIN, SD 53.11 10,500 0 0 10,500
17 TIMMY HORTON MUSCLE SHOALS, AL 53.1 10,500 0 0 10,500
18 KEVIN VANDAM KALAMAZOO, MI 53.0 10,500 0 1,000 11,500
19 PRESTON CLARK PALATKA, FL 52.15 10,500 0 0 10,500
20 BRENT CHAPMAN LAKE QUIVIRA, KS 52.13 10,500 0 0 10,500
21 BILL LOWEN NORTH BEND, OH 52.12 10,250 0 0 10,250
22 ISHAMA MONROE HUGHSON, CA 52.7 10,250 0 0 10,250
23 RANDY HOWELL SPRINGVILLE, AL 51.6 10,250 0 0 10,250
24 ELTON LUCE BROOKELAND, TX 51.3 10,250 0 1,000 11,250
25 BOYD DUCKETT DEMOPOLIS, AL 50.11 10,250 0 0 10,250
26 JEREMY STARKS CHARLESTON, WV 50.0 10,000 0 0 10,000
27 BRADLEY HALLMAN NORMAN, OK 49.15 10,000 0 0 10,000
28 JIMMY MIZE BEN LOMOND, AR 49.11 10,000 0 0 10,000
28 MARTY STONE FAYETTEVILLE, NC 49.11 10,000 0 0 10,000
30 KEVIN SHORT MAYFLOWER, AR 49.9 10,000 0 0 10,000
31 BEN MATSUBU HEMPHILL, TX 49.8 10,000 0 0 10,000
32 JOHN CREWS SALEM, VA 49.2 10,000 0 0 10,000
33 DAVY HITE NINETY SIX, SC 48.11 10,000 0 0 10,000
33 RICK ASH POTTSTOWN, PA 48.11 10,000 0 0 10,000
35 MARK MENENDEZ PADUCAH, KY 48.10 10,000 0 0 10,000
36 TAKAHIRO OMORI EMORY, TX 48.8 10,000 0 0 10,000
37 DUSTIN WILKS ROCKY MOUNT, NC 48.5 10,000 0 0 10,000
38 JEFF REYNOLDS IDABEL, OK 48.2 10,000 0 0 10,000
38 MARK TUCKER SAINT LOUIS, MO 48.2 10,000 0 0 10,000
40 DAVE WOLAK WAKE FOREST, NC 47.14 10,000 0 0 10,000
41 KEVIN WIRTH CRESTWOOD, KY 47.12 10,000 0 0 10,000
42 GERALD SWINDLE WARRIOR, AL 47.7 10,000 0 0 10,000
43 MATTHEW SPHAR PAVILION, NY 47.3 10,000 0 0 10,000
44 JASON WILLIAMSON AIKEN, SC 46.7 10,000 0 0 10,000
45 SCOTT CAMPBELL SPRINGFIELD, MO 46.5 10,000 0 0 10,000
45 JEFF CONNELLA BENTLEY, LA 46.5 10,000 0 0 10,000
47 MIKE MCCLELLAND BELLA VISTA, AR 46.0 10,000 0 0 10,000
48 ZELL ROWLAND MONTGOMERY, TX 43.10 10,000 0 0 10,000
49 JARED LINTNER ARROYO GRANDE, CA 43.7 10,000 0 0 10,000
50 CLIFF PACE PETAL, MS 42.13 10,000 0 0 10,000
51 JEFF KRIET ARDMORE, OK 30.3 0 0 0 0
52 JAMES NIGGEMEYER VAN, TX 29.13 0 0 0 0
52 BOBBY LANE LAKELAND, FL 29.13 0 0 0 0
54 MARK DAVIS MOUNT IDA, AR 29.12 0 0 0 0
55 KURT DOVE FAIRFAX, VA 29.6 0 0 0 0
56 DEREK REMITZ GRANT, AL 28.14 0 0 0 0
57 PETE PONDS MADISON, MS 28.13 0 0 0 0
58 BRIAN CLARK HALTOM CITY, TX 28.12 0 0 0 0
59 SKEET REESE AUBURN, CA 28.9 0 0 0 0
60 GRANT GOLDBECK GAITHERSBURG, MD 27.15 0 0 0 0
61 RICK CLUNN AVA, MO 27.13 0 0 0 0
61 BILLY BREWER BRUCEVILLE, TX 27.13 0 0 0 0
63 SCOTT ROOK LITTLE ROCK, AR 27.11 0 0 0 0
64 DENNIS BRAUER CAMDENTON, MO 27.10 0 0 0 0
65 PETER E THLIVEROS ST AUGUSTINE, FL 27.7 0 0 0 0
65 KEN D COOK LAWTON, OK 27.7 0 0 0 0
67 BERNARD SCHULTZ GAINESVILLE, FL 26.15 0 0 0 0
68 KENYON HILL NORMAN, OK 26.9 0 0 0 0
69 TERRY SCROGGINS SAN MATEO, FL 26.7 0 0 0 0
70 ALTON JONES WACO, TX 26.1 0 0 0 0
71 JAY FULLER KINGSTON, OK 25.14 0 0 0 0
71 CHRIS LANE LAKELAND, FL 25.14 0 0 0 0
73 RAY SEDGWICK CROSS, SC 25.12 0 0 0 0
74 DAVID SMITH DEL CITY, OK 25.10 0 0 0 0
75 STEPHEN BROWNING HOT SPRINGS, AR 25.8 0 0 0 0
76 GUY EAKER CHERRYVILLE, NC 25.7 0 0 0 0
76 PAUL ELIAS LAUREL, MS 25.7 0 0 0 0
78 STEPHEN DANIEL CLEWISTON, FL 25.6 0 0 0 0
79 MORIZO SHIMIZU OSAKA, JP 25.4 0 0 0 0
80 CASEY ASHLEY DONALDS, SC 24.12 0 0 0 0
81 JASON QUINN YORK, SC 24.8 0 0 0 0
82 WADE GROOMS BONNEAU, SC 24.5 0 0 0 0
83 MIKE WURM HOT SPRINGS, AR 24.4 0 0 0 0
84 TERRY BUTCHER TALALA, OK 24.3 0 0 0 0
85 KELLY JORDON MINEOLA, TX 23.13 0 0 0 0
86 RUSSELL LANE PRATTVILLE, AL 23.7 0 0 0 0
87 MARK TYLER VIAN, OK 23.2 0 0 0 0
88 RANDY ALLEN SHREVEPORT, LA 22.12 0 0 0 0
89 BRYAN HUDGINS ORANGE PARK, FL 22.11 0 0 0 0
90 CLARK REEHM RUSSELLVILLE, AR 22.7 0 0 0 0
91 DAVID SHERRER SHREVEPORT, LA 21.4 0 0 0 0
92 BRITT MYERS LAKE WYLIE, SC 21.3 0 0 0 0
93 JIM MURRAY ARABI, GA 21.2 0 0 0 0
93 TODD AUTEN LAKE WYLIE, SC 21.2 0 0 0 0
95 PAUL HIROSKY GUYS MILLS, PA 21.0 0 0 0 0
96 YUSUKE MIYAZAKI FORNEY, TX 20.6 0 0 0 0
97 DEAN ROJAS LAKE HAVASU CITY, AZ 19.3 0 0 0 0
98 TOMMY BIFFLE WAGONER, OK 18.11 0 0 0 0
99 JAMES KENNEDY LACOMBE, LA 17.5 0 0 0 0
100 KEVIN LANGILL TERRELL, NC 17.3 0 0 0 0
101 CHARLIE HARTLEY GROVE CITY, OH 16.0 0 0 0 0
102 COREY WALDROP FORT WORTH, TX 14.15 0 0 0 0
103 BYRON VELVICK DEL RIO, TX 14.13 0 0 0 0
104 STEPHEN KENNEDY AUBURN, AL 14.11 0 0 0 0
105 MARTY ROBINSON LYMAN, SC 10.14 0 0 0 0
106 PAT GOLDEN HIGH POINT, NC 1.15 0 0 0 0
TopH2o
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Re: Big Jeff

Post by TopH2o »

You forgot that Erie, Huron & Michigan still have a 13 lb average per 5 walleye in all PWT tournaments. But than again you'all Delta fisherman might not take any real value in that. :wink:
Robert F
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Re: TopH2o

Post by Robert F »

Marc wrote:I would caution to be very careful about drawing specific conclusions based on information we read in the newspapers, or even in scientific journals regarding invasive species and the damage they cause.

Generally speaking, we can mostly agree that they are bad and will be costly. That being said, nobody can predict how the future will pan out after invasives are introduced, and any assumption is exactly that, an assumption (and you know what they say about assumptions).

Whenever a change occurs in the environment, there are costs and benefits that constantly shift until an equilibrium is reached (often many years later). For example, yes zebra and quaqqa mussels clog intake pipes for water purveyors which creates a new cost. What isn't mentioned is that there is also a cost benefit to the water purveyor in that these prolific filter feeders remove tremendous loads of nutrients that reduces the treatment costs of raw surface water (turbidity is greatly reduced). Which way will the cost balance scale tip??? Who knows? But to proclaim the costs will be devastating may be a gross exaggeration or it may be accurate. Time will tell.

Parts of the Great Lakes are now devoid of life as a result of the mussels? I have yet to see conclusive evidence that indicates mussels are responsilbe; and since this occurred prior to the invasion as well I will take a wait and see attitude about this as well.

Sorry, but the idea that water clarity hurts the fishing by using the Delta as an example also doesn't convince me of anything. Smallmouths are very different than largemouths, and make a living primarily using their sense of sight, unlike largemouths who are more adept at using other senses to forage. Smallmouths simply have not adapted to turbid water, and using the Delta example just look at the limited population of smallmouths in Delta waters compared to largemouths.

Let me be clear...I consider invasives to be a bad thing because they change the ecological balance at a rapid pace. Once they establish a population, they will change the environment and they will cause new costs and changes in how we live our lives. We should prevent invasives at every opportunity.

That being said, the gloom and doom that many proclaim is often politically motivated and we should all question any conclusions drawn from emotional arguments that are not proven.

None of us can predict the harm invasives will ultimately create; none of us can predict the costs; and none of us can predict the benefits. The lack of knowledge is why we should be concerned, but instead of getting in a panic we should seek more information and keep making adjustments to the best of our ability. Arguments about whether invasives are good or bad are often nonproductive, and immaterial. Zebras and Quaggas are here, and it isn't likely any of us will get rid of them or prevent their spread (yes, we should try, and we can slow their spread which gives us more time to learn how to deal with them), but to argue about how they will affect our future is an exercise in futility.

When you read the gloom and doom stories, you might be wise to question the motives of the author.
Well stated. Remember that most news is "reporting" of a source's statement. To take any news story as the final word is irresponsible. Does that mean that the "media" as people like to refer to news gatherers is biased? Not really. It just means that the report you are reading may not be all sides of the story. Only the side that was presented to the news gatherer to report. Having been in the news gathering business for many years as my first career I can attest to there being many ways a story can be reported. Look to the more credible sources for your news. The internet has spawned many people with an organization and an agenda to expect everything you read as the last word. Larger news gathering organizations have the resources to get both sides of a story and therefore provide a more balanced report. The Alliance for the Great Lakes could be one hippie sitting on the floor of an apartment in Chicago. He did come up with a convincing name for his group of one. Enough to get the Feds to listen. And the Delta's Dying Alliance. Picture that.
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dockboy
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Re: TopH2o

Post by dockboy »

I guess the smallmouth MUST be the indication that the Great Lakes is in great shape, right? Remember, just because one or two species thrives with aquatic invasives in a system doesn't mean the ecosystem is healthy. Lake trout, steelhead, migratory brown trout, salmon and walleyes are the key to the Great Lakes and fishery economies. The reality is, smallmouth don't make a great economy fishery. Sure, the big bass tournaments help, no doubt. But what about the FLW walleye tournies? The amount of revenue a big walleye tourney brings in is very good. The Great Lakes walleye tournies can also be launched from points around the Great Lakes area, versus the fairly local patterns the big bass circuits like BASS and FLW Bass follow. You start to lose the walleye and the local economies suffer.

Then think about the salmon and migratory trout runs the Great Lakes fisheries and wildlife departments have spent billions on in restoring habitat and careful stocking. So what happens when the salmon and migratory trout stocks start to dwindle. All the hard spent effort and money goes to waste if the species start to diminish from the invasive species' effects on the ecosystem. Not to mention the large economy lost from the charter fisheries based on the Great Lakes salmon and steelhead population.

Once the baitfish change, so do the lake trout stocks. Once again, a huge part of the charter fisheries.

The maitenance costs are incredibly high with these mussels. Millions, if not billions, are spent on frequent clean up of infrastructures for water development and usage around the lake, as well as power stations and plants.

The sources may not be the best sometimes. Sometimes the author's motives are questionable. But this really is the truth. The aquatic mussels that have invaded the Great Lakes are having a large impact on the lakes ecosystem, most of it negative. And just think; for a few decades, Lake Erie was considered a "dead" lake due the effects human waste and overfishing had taxed upon the ecosystem. The efforts of the agencies, individuals, and communities of the area ranged on a grand scale to bring back the fisheries the lake once held back to their former grand standards. These mussels could very well set every effort made to do so back to square 1.
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Re: TopH2o

Post by Robert F »

Another great point Dockboy. Is there any other fish besides bass that swim in those lakes? IMO some of the agency programs are just big experiments. Setting out to alter a natural resource is no different than introducing an invasive species. Actually it is used quite often in these mitigation programs. Guess it is OK if it is done under the guise of public good? I believe we are on the right track as bass fishermen. The problem seems to be with the general boating community. I rolled in to Lake County on the first day of their sticker program implementation. There was a wakeboard boat sitting at the gas station so I asked him if he knew where was the closest place to get a sticker on that end of the lake. His response was "what sticker?" DFG spends way too much of their budget on biologists scooping up water samples. There budget needs to be overhauled to place more emphasis on enforcement. Unless that happens everything we do will be for not as somebody is going to walk in here and unknowingly bring the Delta a gift. The gift that keeps on giving.
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some guy
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Re: TopH2o

Post by some guy »

Bass fishermen are the devil!
Create your own luck.

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mark poulson
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Re: TopH2o

Post by mark poulson »

The mussels are a real problem for water supply infrasturcture, and all the arguements about fishing and ecosystems isn't going to change that.
If it winds up costing billions to mitigate the problem, we're the ones who will ultimately pay for it, either in taxes, or higher water and utility bills. And, if it cost industry money to fight them, they have to pass the cost on to us through the price of whatever it is they manuf.
Since DFG says it's a matter of when, not if, all our lakes get infected, the State really needs to come up with a way to deal with the infestations now. They need to get that in the works, so we don't get caught with our pants down when it happens, and wind up paying a lot more to get a system that works in place on a panic basis.
IMHO :wink:
P.S. I'm doing some work in the same canyon as our Gov.'s estate in L.A., and can see it across the canyon.
He has a huge place, and tons of landscaping that is GREEN
What ever happened to conserving water, Mr. Gov.?
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