Navigating in fog question

[Chris B.]

After running on Berryessa yesterday AM in pea-soup thick fog while a tourney was going on, it got me wondering: Is any kind of strobe light legal so other boats can see you? Normal running lights were useless.

My goal is to keep from getting slammed into by someone else who isn't running slow. I was hugging the right-hand shoreline and going slow (especially in Narrows). I assume that's the right thing to do in thick fog.

[ash]

I hear you Chris,

I was a part of that tournament I was doing 25-30 following my old trails couldnt see anything in terms of boat lights only the boat wake. I stayed out in the middle of the channle as guys were buzzing the shore line very quickly.

What is the standard?

[Mark Pollard]

How did you guys do at Berryessa? hows the fishing this time of year?

[ash]

Typically fishing this time of year at Berry is great! But not so much for us on Sunday during the FBT tournament.

I cant speak for ChrisB but we found it tough I weighed two fish for 3.11 I had my limit on at one point during the day but hauled water.

The winner Mark Keyes had 10.77 with a 5.91 largemouth for big fish. Lots of small fish weighed in, a few guys blanked. Half the field had limits, just a tough day out there.

[rob916]

I fish the semipro AC saturday and there was no fog..i won the event with 14lbs and some change 2nd had 10lbs but was DQd for not wearing a life jacket. Howd you guys do sunday?

[keithcant]

I hear you Chris,

I was a part of that tournament I was doing 25-30 following my old trails couldnt see anything in terms of boat lights only the boat wake. I stayed out in the middle of the channle as guys were buzzing the shore line very quickly.

What is the standard?

In PEA SOUP FOG----this is only about 20--25 MPH too fast--following your old trails is fine as long as the other boats have radar/sonar capability.
On plane in PEA SOUP is never safe and is only acceptable in range w/ your policy liability limits.

[tunaman]

Just as in driving a car, never out-drive your vision. Far too many bad things can happen at even slower speeds, let alone when on pad. You can't rely on lights, horns, or anything other than your vision and ability to change course or forward progress.

Roger

[Chris B.]

All good advice so far but not specific enough.

I was thinking about buying a low-cost ($16) battery operated xenon white light strobe like this one:
http://www.epartyunlimited.com/portablestrobe.html
It would be very visible thru even thick fog.

Assuming it's legal, it could be magnet-mounted on any metal surface. Seems like cheap (life and boat) insurance.

Also, is it correct to stay on the right hand side of a fogged-in waterway?

thanks

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

The biggest problem with relying on GPS in fog is that GPS doesn't let you know where any other boats are..It isn't radar, and even radar can miss some boats..Staying to the right and close to shore is probably the safest way to try and navigate, but in truth, there is no safe way to navigate a bass boat in thick fog..I know a lot have done it and will continue to do so, but that doesn't make it safe..

mac

[tunaman]

I was thinking about buying a low-cost ($16) battery operated xenon white light strobe like this one:
http://www.epartyunlimited.com/portablestrobe.html
It would be very visible thru even thick fog.

Biggest problem with lights are that the fog refracts the light, thus reducing your visibility... much like trying to drive in fog with your high beams on. Depending on the frequency of the flash, I could see it being more of a hinderance than a benefit. May be worth a try though?

Roger

[Guest]

I think you might be better off with one of these:

[Chris B.]

Okay, I just got off the phone with Mike Sotelo the Regulations Analyst at Cal Boating and Waterways. Very helpful and knowledgable guy. Here's his answers to my fog-related questions:

1. Strobe lights. It is legal to use a white strobe light on your boat to signal your position to others. This presumes you are not using a high powered light that would blind the pilot of other boats. Also, you cannot use blue strobes--those are reserved for law enforcement.

2. Right-hand side. It is generally accepted that you navigate on the right-hand side of a waterway. Mike said the only exception is if there are local regulations in effect that say otherwise.

3. Blind bends. Mike says Rule 6 covers sounding of a whistle or horn when navigating around a blind bend. I have never heard a bass boat doing this but in very thick fog when you are traveling at the (safe) speed limit (see #4 below) why not beep your horn a few times?

4. Safe speed rule. Mike stated the speed rule for boats that sounds like very good advice: you must be able to stop your boat in 1/2 the current visibility distance. I figure reaction times during cold weather and with any on-boat distractions is maybe 3 seconds.

For reference:
25mph is 36 feet/sec. This means you travel 108 feet before your reaction time kicks in, then (guessing) maybe another 50 ft to stop, or 158 feet total.
35mph is 50 ft/sec, or 150 feet before you react. Then maybe another 75 ft to stop, or 225 feet total.
50mph is 73 ft/sec, or 220 feet before you react. Then maybe 100 ft to stop, or 320 feet total.

Feel free to adjust the stopping distances for your boat. Using early yesterday at Berryessa, at its worst I'd estimate maybe 150 feet visibility in the Narrows which meant anything faster than about 15 mph would have been unsafe (that is, you have to be able to stop in 1/2 the visibility distance).

For 2008 boating regs (all 384 pages) you can click here:
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/PDF/2008CBL.pdf

Questions, feedback, suggestions welcome. I'm placing an order for a battery-operated strobe today.

[Randy Walker]

I have to agree with Mac, depending on just how bad the fog is, it may not be real safe even against the bank. You have to keep in mind the body of water and time of year, in regards to who else may be on the water. I had a buddy that was sitting just off the bank in place while rigging up a rod, when all of a sudden a boat comes up on him in the fog, not going very fast at all and could not stop or turn in time. Now, my buddy happen to be in a 12ft alum boat and the boat that came up on him was a small houseboat. He had just enough time to jump from his boat before it got pushed under water. He still got a bit beat up, but he got a new and better boat out of the deal. The slower the safer.

Walker

[tunaman]

Don't forget that there are now folks in float tubes, kick boats, and other extremely small craft. They typically stay real close to the shoreline, which would put them directly in harm's way under reduced visibility... not sure if any of them are out in the fog or not, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Bottom line - go slow and be careful out there!
Roger

[Dan McKenzie]

I think technically it would be against the law and considered a distraction. Read more in the california safe boating laws. I think such a light could be confused as a distress signal, or inadvertantly identify your vessel as a law enforcement or search and rescue vessel. Here is a link to california boating law
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/PDF/2008CBL.pdf

[ash]

Okay, I just got off the phone with Mike Sotelo the Regulations Analyst at Cal Boating and Waterways. Very helpful and knowledgable guy. Here's his answers to my fog-related questions:

1. Strobe lights. It is legal to use a white strobe light on your boat to signal your position to others. This presumes you are not using a high powered light that would blind the pilot of other boats. Also, you cannot use blue strobes--those are reserved for law enforcement.

2. Right-hand side. It is generally accepted that you navigate on the right-hand side of a waterway. Mike said the only exception is if there are local regulations in effect that say otherwise.

3. Blind bends. Mike says Rule 6 covers sounding of a whistle or horn when navigating around a blind bend. I have never heard a bass boat doing this but in very thick fog when you are traveling at the (safe) speed limit (see #4 below) why not beep your horn a few times?

4. Safe speed rule. Mike stated the speed rule for boats that sounds like very good advice: you must be able to stop your boat in 1/2 the current visibility distance. I figure reaction times during cold weather and with any on-boat distractions is maybe 3 seconds.

For reference:
25mph is 36 feet/sec. This means you travel 108 feet before your reaction time kicks in, then (guessing) maybe another 50 ft to stop, or 158 feet total.
35mph is 50 ft/sec, or 150 feet before you react. Then maybe another 75 ft to stop, or 225 feet total.
50mph is 73 ft/sec, or 220 feet before you react. Then maybe 100 ft to stop, or 320 feet total.

Feel free to adjust the stopping distances for your boat. Using early yesterday at Berryessa, at its worst I'd estimate maybe 150 feet visibility in the Narrows which meant anything faster than about 15 mph would have been unsafe (that is, you have to be able to stop in 1/2 the visibility distance).

For 2008 boating regs (all 384 pages) you can click here:
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/PDF/2008CBL.pdf

Questions, feedback, suggestions welcome. I'm placing an order for a battery-operated strobe today.

Nice post Chris,

My only concern with the white strobe is it further blinding ME. I know i put my graph backlight wayyy down as it lights up the fog around me. Really I was doing 30 as I was more afraid of someone coming up my backside then coming down at me. My boat dont cruize at 25-15 without it being nose up in the air.

Any bass guy that says he hasn't travled faster then he could stop out on the river or elsewhere up here is telling a tail. I appreciate the information Chris and glad nothing did happen. But you still havn't answered the question

HOW WAS YOUR FISHING

[Chris B.]

I think technically it would be against the law and considered a distraction. I think such a light could be confused as a distress signal...

Not so, according to Mr Sotelo the Regulations Analyst at Cal Boating. Can't get closer to the regs source than that.

I'd rather use a strobe in thick fog to protect myself against others that run too fast, than not use one and suffer the consequences.

As to those who suggest that running to the extreme right of a waterway is also not safe due to stationary boats near the shore, probably the best compromise is to stay well to the right of the waterway's centerline but outside the shore's "fishing zone." When I fish in thick fog, I'll make darn sure I'm as close to the shore as possible and cast up or down the bank.

I know most bass fishermen will probably end up not changing their fog navigating habits, whatever they might be. I'm hoping this thread will save at least one this season from a preventable accident--that was my goal.

[Chris B.]

HOW WAS YOUR FISHING

Ash,
If I try the strobe thing (mounted behind the pilot position, like on the rear light pole) and it turns out to be too bright, I'll make another post and let you know.

As to fishing, it actually was pretty good yesterday. Didn't kill em with any big fish but got 6 for the day, biggest was a 2. Slow dartheading worked for me. Barely moved the bait. Even dropshotting didn't work (!). My buddy threw jigs all day and only got 1.

Cheers.

[Dan McKenzie]

Well I don't know Mr. Sotelo, but consider what it says here;

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules ... es_faq.htm

Can I use Strobe Lights to be more visible at night? For any other lights beyond those specifically defined within the Navigation Rules they should be such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules, or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out (Rule 20).
Displaying a strobe for “higher visibilityâ€

[Chris B.]

Dan,

Excellent reference and good point. I can only speak for myself on what I feel is necessary to ensure safety in dense daytime fog. e.g. on a day when I know lots of tournament boats will be trying to get to their spots fast. I'm willing to risk someone mistaking a distress signal in exchange for their being 100% aware of my boat's position. If everyone followed the safe speed law, there would be no need. But fat chance of that happening in my lifetime.

Thanks again for digging up the reference. BTW, West Marine has a waterproof strobe unit for $12. Would be handy to have for fog and regular non-fog emergencies.

[brambo0311]

Delta on saturday was really bad. Went out of 3 mile and some how found dutch and BB. Tried to run over to the marina and got lost couldnt see 20 feet. No GPS. All my electronics went down when I changed tanks. Wound up back in dutch after I was sure I was going straight. Dont think I went faster than 10mph all day. Oh and white boats on anchor at all intersections in the fog with no lights. I am supprised there isnt more accidents out there. I am not going out again until I get a new GPS so I can at least see the bank.

[MIKE TREMONT]

ASH wrote:

Any bass guy that says he hasn't traveled faster then he could stop out on the river or elsewhere up here is telling a tail.

Well let me be the first. I won't run in the fog, I never have and never will, unless it's a matter of life or death.

As we were idling out yesterday I asked Danny: I hope you don't mind if we just hang out here for awhile, cause it's more important to me to get us home safe, than get to the other end of the lake. His reply was a thumbs up. When the fog lifted, we were fishing somewhere other than where we thought we were .

I am still amazed that some guys just run. As has been said, that gps can keep you in the middle of the river, but not running over somebody else.

[Caudawg]

In addition to the airhorn type noisemaker, I would keep a loud, sharp steel whistle in my mouth because when you are white-nuckling it even at 5 mph or less, you want to keep both hands on the wheel in case you need to make a very abrupt turn. That whistle has been helpful on more than one occasion.

The airhorns are a "must have" but you can't always reach down to blow it in time especially if you are alone. Obviously, if you have a non-boater...they can be the designated airhorn blower.

Fog during a blastoff is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Guy Kelley]

I can never figure out why, if it is that bad (Fog) on the water, why risk it anyway ?

Something wrong with the DT if ya ask me, he should call it for safety reasons !?

all it take is one accident, one too many !

[twister]

Let me first say that this is not an act of hate against aluminum vessels. I also own a 12 ft aluminum and a bass boat. I'm just making an observation. The majority of boats without lights in the Delta are aluminum boats with tillers. If you're one of these guys, please invest in two clamp on style lights. It's very hard to see someone anchored in the middle of the channel bait fishing.

As for those invinsible egos out there. Please slow down. Following your GPS "Safe" tracks in the middle of the channel is a very common myth. Many bass fisherman do the same thing. Guest what? It does not take a rocket scientist to know if two or more boats follow the middle track a collision is inevitable.

Last, for the guy I saw water skiing in the fog last Sunday in the Delta. Your insane and I think you should be wearing one of the strobe light hats.

[Marc]

If you want to warn others of your presence in fog, a foghorn reaches much farther than any visual signal.

ciao,
Marc

[blkdog812]

the white strobe is to be used for emergency rescue location use only.
anything else can be cause for fines, arrest etc. as per coast guard

[ash]

Mike,

Good on you, if I would have not ran in the fog I would have stopped in the same cove Mark Keyes did and gotten his big fish Lesson Learned.

You guys are right and I know this as well, I guess its a matter of strait ideling through or get up and go. The scary part as Chris said is going too slow and having someone come up on you from behind. It really creates a vicious circle.

Thanks for the feedback - I am sure that I am not the only one that ran in the fog.

[tunaman]

The good thing about being at idle is that you can hear very well... if someone is charging up on you there is the opportunity to detect it and blow a whistle or airhorn and take preventative measures.

Again, navigating, as in driving, in the fog requires extreme caution to prevent mishaps.

Roger

[bassindon69]

What gets me the most is that a tourney let people go when it was unsafe.

Running in thick fog......YOU ARE NUTS!

No more back seat for me it this is how you all are.


Don.

[Dave Wilson]

Rule 35- inland waters: "A power driven vessel making way through the water shall sound at intervals of not more than 2 minutes one prolonged blast."(Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility").
This rule comes into play in court big time when you hit another boat. It's a rare thing to ever hear this rule in action.
In my local ocean waters a National Park Service boat T boned an anchored dive boat and almost sank it. The legal decision?? almost 50% responsibility to the dive boat anchored because they didn't ring a bell for 5 secondsevery minute. ( amazingly The skipper of the NPS boat wasn't at the helm and was making coffee ). Ahh the power of the law
to overcome common sense!!

[Caudawg]

This reminds me of a funny story about a blastoff years ago at the Record Bee tournament at Clear Lake. We had pea soup fog that was so bad, the tournament director decided to delay the blast-off. We waited several hours as the fog kept acting like it was going to burn off...only to get thick again and cause further delay.

Well, the fog by around 9 or 10 o'clock acted like it was really going to burn off this time...so the tournament director (after being haranged by the fisherment to let them go) said "if you promise to go real slow...I'll let you guys go out". The anglers all said "Yeah, no problem...let us go"...so away they went...into the re-thickening fog. (by the way, this was before GPS was a fairly standard part of our tournament boat electronics)

Do you think they went "slowly"??? Heck no! They (we) all took off like a bat out of he**!! Luckily, nobody was hurt but this just goes to show ya. When it's a tournament and money is on the line, people do make bad decisions. Scary stuff!

Now that I'm older and wiser, I think running fast in the fog is like playing Russian Roulette.

[Andy Giannini]

I use a four blade and can stay on pad at slower speeds. One of my thoughts were last time, if I am on pad going slow, I can see more, (due to less nose of the boat blocking my vision.) and be evasive quicker vs. sitting down in the water and getting run over or not being able to avoid a big laydown.

I think I can stay on pad at 25 have not checked it on gps because I don't run with gps in the fog.

.02 and Flame away if needed.

A.G.

[Caudawg]

I use a four blade and can stay on pad at slower speeds. One of my thoughts were last time, if I am on pad going slow, I can see more, (due to less nose of the boat blocking my vision.) and be evasive quicker vs. sitting down in the water and getting run over or not being able to avoid a big laydown.

I think I can stay on pad at 25 have not checked it on gps because I don't run with gps in the fog.

.02 and Flame away if needed.

A.G.

Andy, I hear what you are saying. It's such a fine line (margin of error) between not being on pad and being on pad and having the reaction time to avert a collision with another boat, dock or shoreline. Some of the new outboards are so quiet, you hardly know they are running. So some boats may be more capable of dodging disaster than others while on pad.

This is a really tough topic but it's worthy of debate. It may wake some people up to how dangerous things really are in the fog.

One thing to consider...those boats that have ultra quiet ouboards are awesome but they also pose as a threat if they are coming up behind you quickly. You can't hear them as well as you can the older outboards. Just more food for thought.