"NEW" Angler's Chioce Pro-Am's

Caudawg · Post by **Caudawg** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:20 am

All of this positivity should be a wake-up call to all tournament organizers/promotors. This circuit format is clearly getting folks fired up to participate. In these tough times...listening closely to what the anglers want is more important than ever.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:45 am

Gary,
It sounds good. The only question I have is what the off limits will be? I think at least one pre fish day if not two would benefit the total participation. For guys that are willing to travel at least they get three or four days fishing out of it.
Thanks
Rich Smith
Smitty

BassketCase · Post by **BassketCase** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:03 am

Thanks Gary!
You can count me in.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:21 am

As someone who lives in Southern Cal I would vote for an Off-limits. Let show up and fish and let the best angler win or cash a check.

I use all of my vacation time on FLW and usually never practiced for the weekend pro/ams anyway.

Great idea and I am glad that someone is listening to the ANGLERS!

robertthornton · Post by **robertthornton** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:53 am

I dont think there should be an off limits. My buddy and I are fishing it, and we can only take the weekends of, so we need to fish the weekends befor the tournament, or If our boss is slow in the beginning of the week we could take what ever time we can to head up and fish.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:29 am

Gary Dobyns wrote:There are pro's and con's to off limits. I think it helps even the field and the fish are not beat up as bad prior to the event. I will promise you this, if Gary H., Mike T., Jim D., myself and MANY others put 4 or 5 days on the water practicing, we will have a HUGE advantage. Most guys cannot put that amount of time into prefishing.

Here is my concern Gary. The locals will be able to fish up to the off-limits and establish a pattern. If the off-limits is a week that pattern should be good enough to even locate spots. If an out of towner wants to be competitive with the locals you would need to drive up before the off-limits, pre-fish and then come back for tournament day. Not very easy. I support some sort of off-limits if it can be policed and run fair. I do not think the guys that have to travel will be able to compete with the guys that can fish the week before with a short drive. I think an official practice is a better option.

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:42 am

When trying to make a fair decision for the majority, the off-limits has more pluses than minuses. There is no perfect fix for this, that will make EVERYONE happy. As far as policing, I don't think that's a problem. There are plenty of guys NOT in the event that will be on the water. If a guy is caught, he will be trashed as a POS for life. I don't think this is an issue.

DPetty · Post by **DPetty** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:07 am

NUFF SAID. Let's go fishin'

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:08 am

Gary Dobyns wrote: First thing is I've asked all organizations to let anglers help with decisions, (advisory board). Mark Mendez has taken me up on it.

This is huge, given the disappointment we have witnessed in our regional Pro-Ams over the past few years, its about time someone listened to the anglers.
I will have renewed confidence knowing that my fellow anglers are in the loop when making crucial decisions that effect us all.

It's no secret that you can't please all the anglers all of the time but I think this strategy will be close. Dates, format and venues will be decided by committee so I will rely on their decisions to bring us the best tournaments at the best times possible.

I would however like to see a more festive type atmosphere at these events, something that would bring more wives and families into the mix. One of the best run tournaments Iâ€™ve attended was the 2007 Triton Owners tournament at Clear Lake with Kent Brown, that was one of the few tournaments where I enjoyed myself after getting off the water.

My hats off to Gary and Mark, the anglers spoke and you guys listened.

TWinger · Post by **TWinger** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:34 am

this a great concept and I am in. I will be signing up as a co angler. Any Pro wanting to have a co to sign up with let me know. Already fishing Semi pro team events so membership already in place.

Thanks

Hitman · Post by **Hitman** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:51 am

One or two day event? It was not clear in your original message.

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:01 pm

Two day events. Sat/Sunday

philip garcia · Post by **philip garcia** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:25 pm

I think the majority of us welcome the off limits. Remember you can still fish the weekend before just not mon,tues, and wed. For you worried about pros fishing during off limits it won't happen. There is no way someone would risk so much for so little. I was already going to fish these events but now I can't wait.

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:11 pm

That has to be the record for your longest post. Are your two index fingers wore out?!

Hey - seriously, thanks for jumping in and supporting this and thanks to Mark Mendez too.

I would echo what a few others have said before me. I want a M - Th off limits period. It just makes since to have a Friday prefish day to help get everyone to checkin and also give fols a day to get on the water, make sure everything works - light poles, etc.

For a FAMILY guy with 2 boys I'm coaching in baseball and doing all the 'Dad thing' I REALLY would like to see just three events spread across the spring, then a Fall TOC (over on the Pond - but that's just my own personal biased and the fact that I love having Jimmy and Sieg hand me my head on their water.)

ProAms need to be 2 days. That somewhat takes away the single, lucky big bite.

Again - thanks for stepping up and taking the lead, to you and any others in the advisory role.

Good stuff! Regards,

Bob Simard

eagle123777 · Post by **eagle123777** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:55 pm

hey gary, have to say thanks for this workin man circut. I am not a pro by any means of the imagination but i have fished out of the front of my boat so long on the lakes u mentioned plus the delta wouldnt feel right to be in the back. I did a pro/am once and the guy was a nice guy but after makin one suggestion and being ignored just went to fishin...needless to say we did not come close, but with this format have no problem jumpin in and fishin from the front of my boat...thks jack

RougeBass · Post by **RougeBass** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:02 pm

Brian Ruthman wrote:Can you do the Pro and Co-Angler draw while everyone is present like the morning of the event , Nor-Cal bass does it this way . They put everyones name on a chip Pro's in one box Am's in another and then they draw one chip from each box , it works really good . I always hear guys bitching that the draws are rigged and they think certain guys get the best Pro's . Keep it all out in the open for all to see and everyone will be happy .

Personally Myself I like the draws the night before gets me a chance to meet with my pro's make sure i'm tied up ready to go so I'm not doing it in the parking lot with a flashlight at 4 am. Also gets me a chance to get what and I need in my bag and not be carrying a ton of extra stuff I'm not going to need. But either way if I can I will be there!!!!!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:35 pm

[quote="Ricky-S"]Sounds good to me. Lets even consider having a tournament in the summer on CL.

Can AC move the conflict with WCB in June?

Ricky, West Coast has tried to move their date, there is no date open available at Don Pedro, that does not conflict with another tournament : at this late date . Maybe next year ??

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:35 pm

Sounds great!

eagle123777 · Post by **eagle123777** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:53 am

Gary, i just reread your post as was getting ready to fill out the entry form. I read that the anglers that fish all the tournaments will be the ones to fish for the 36k at clearlake. Just need a clarification as I will be at Minot AFB with the troops the week before and dont get back in time for Oroville. I understand why they should be the ones if they supported all three so the question is what are the the anglers fishing for that can make the delta and clearlake..I am guessing the normal payback and the 36k is seprate which is fine just gettin it clear in my head.........thks jack

phill strader · Post by **phill strader** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:19 am

The way i read it is, it is a straight 80% payback on individual tournaments, with the bonus payback at Clear lake available to those who fished all three. Plus a 100% option payout available at each event.
i may be corrected on this......

phil strader

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:15 am

Strader is correct. The "$36000" is for the anglers that fish all 3 events. This is a fund to try and get anglers to follow the circuit and it replaces a TOC. Many anglers did not want to travel and fish for a mostly winner take all TOC, that has always been the formats. The $36000 will be paid down the field. The numbers have not been made and will vary "up or down" depending on field sizes. Please remember "it's open book".

eagle123777 · Post by **eagle123777** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:34 am

thks, thats what i thought but wanted to make sure as can only fish the last two....jack

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:15 am

I see alot of guys are worried about the pattern staying the same for the local guys , make a 2 week offlimits that sould take care of it and give everyone one day of pre-fish on Friday off the water by 3pm. Do the draw pairing for both days like i said above on Friday afternoon like at 4pm , i never liked the FLW pairing and how long it was drug out , they started it too late in the evening and it went on way too long . I would like to see it done in less than an hour so the Pro's and Am's can go and get their stuff ready and go to bed early if they want to .

Teresa · Post by **Teresa** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:48 am

Marty,

The schedule has been out for some time. I had it posted several times on Westernbass.com and have had it up on usanglerschoice.net for awhile. Any changes that are being made are due to additional organizations scheduling events on top of US Angler's Choice tournament. Changes will be done as soon as possbile.

Teresa

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:30 am

Brian Ruthman wrote:I see alot of guys are worried about the pattern staying the same for the local guys , make a 2 week offlimits that sould take care of it and give everyone one day of pre-fish on Friday off the water by 3pm. Do the draw pairing for both days like i said above on Friday afternoon like at 4pm , i never liked the FLW pairing and how long it was drug out , they started it too late in the evening and it went on way too long . I would like to see it done in less than an hour so the Pro's and Am's can go and get their stuff ready and go to bed early if they want to .

4:00pm on Friday wouldn't work for those guys who "work for a living". I think a true working man's tournament trail would have to put that into perspective.

For some of the Pro/Am's here in AZ they have a non-mandatory meeting at the lake at 6:00pm the night before to perform the actual draw. People who want to sign up last minute (who already have a boat/non-boater pair) can do so at that time before 6:00PM. Once the draw happens people can show up early the next AM and find out who their draw partner is. Once they find each other they transfer fishing equipment into the boat and launch.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:42 am

That sucks for the back seater... I much prefer WON's method, where the pairing is made and they have a chance to talk about the day's gameplan ahead of time, so that I have a good idea how to gear up and prepare.

Roger

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:00 pm

I have a question...Are there any Pro's out there looking for an AM to sign up with for the Delta tournament? I would love to fish that tournament, but need a pro to sign up with. Thank you! If you could contact me via PM or E-mail, that'd be awesome.

brushhawg81@yahoo.com

-Andy Lippert

usblitzz · Post by **usblitzz** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:45 pm

Great Idea Gary!!! I am jealous as there is nothing like this in my area

procraftrob · Post by **procraftrob** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:41 pm

I personally dislike an off limits rule. I see where your coming from gary when you say that yourself and the other guys who have the means to put in 5 or 6 days of pre fishing have an advantage, but on the other hand the guys that put in 5 or 6 days deserve to do well theyve made the sacrifices and put in the time and effort to do well.

Another reason I dislike off limits is it puts someone like me at a disadvantage, I do plan to fish all 3 events, I dont live near oroville so I cant be heading there every weekend to learn the lake I plan to go up 3 or 4 days before the event and get familliar with whats going on there. An off limits would disable me from doing so, and put the locals at a large advantage. I feel its more in the working mans interest to have a no off limit format. Getting familiar with the conditions of a lake the week prior to a tourney is one way I feel I can compete with a local pro.

philip garcia · Post by **philip garcia** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:10 am

believe it or not procraftrob most of us oroville locals would only go out two days anyways. Think of your home lake do you think it would take you more than two days to find the right bite? I think the locals know there body of water enouph to not have to go out for four or five days.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:37 am

I have had most of my top tens in tournaments where I just showed up and went fishing. Fishing in the moment and pure God given instincts took over. No I caught them here or there.

I'd like to see a 5 day off limits. Practice the week before or no practice at all and show up and fish!

Plus that would save my vacation time for the week long derbies.

In the end-I could care less who ran the tournament.

I just want to fish a weekend tournament, combined weight, no schedule conflicts, low entry (I've got bills to pay), people who listen to the anglers, cash payout, and a year end championship.

Get-r-done!

DL · Post by DL » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:45 am

Ricky-S wrote:I have had most of my top tens in tournaments where I just showed up and went fishing. Fishing in the moment and pure God given instincts took over. No I caught them here or there.

I'd like to see a 5 day off limits. Practice the week before or no practice at all and show up and fish!

Plus that would save my vacation time for the week long derbies.

In the end-I could care less who ran the tournament.

I just want to fish a weekend tournament, combined weight, no schedule conflicts, low entry (I've got bills to pay), people who listen to the anglers, cash payout, and a year end championship.

Get-r-done!

Ricky, you got a PM

procraftrob · Post by **procraftrob** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:36 am

Yah I see what you mean Phillip G, but that wasnt quite what I meant, I know you and most other locals would only need a couple of days prefishing to do well, but what I was triying to say was I need 3 or 4 days on the water to keep up with you guys a little bit.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:59 am

tunaman wrote:That sucks for the back seater... I much prefer WON's method, where the pairing is made and they have a chance to talk about the day's game plan ahead of time, so that I have a good idea how to gear up and prepare.

Roger

Not really... I fish those events as an AM and so far 2 for 2 with cashing a check. I just go there to fish and end up fishing the moment. In both situations I just spent the first 1-2 hrs of the day fine tuning the pattern until something clicks. Then I figure out what the fish want that day under those conditions allowing the guy up front to fish his way and I fish mine.

Vince

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:06 am

Vince Borrego wrote:Not really... I fish those events as an AM and so far 2 for 2 with cashing a check. I just go there to fish and end up fishing the moment. In both situations I just spent the first 1-2 hrs of the day fine tuning the pattern until something clicks. Then I figure out what the fish want that day under those conditions allowing the guy up front to fish his way and I fish mine.

Vince

Makes it difficult, if not impossible, to limit the amount of rods and tackle you have to bring along IMHO. I myself try to bring the minimal amount of gear to get the job done, and not have to try to stuff 20 pounds of tackle and 6-8 rods on a boat with small compartments or little room. May be just me though? <shrug>

Roger

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:23 am

I think the rules just need to be set whatever they are going to be so we can make decisions to fish or not. As far as off limits, whatever, locals are always going to have an advantage.
Just let us know the off limits decision so we can move forward.
Smitty

littlebailey · Post by **littlebailey** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:07 am

im in. I dont care if we have off limits or not. I just want a cash payout. this giving away a boat nonsense is out of control. yeah you win a boat but it costs you money to get your prize. i never understood this. whether or not you keep it or sell it it ends up costing you money to handle it. Give the cash. much easier to hand over and less hassle. Like i Smitty said, let get it done and get this to the next step, whatever that is. Good job Gary and Mark! Mark if you need any help im in nor cal now. call me!

Paul Bailey

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:55 pm

My thoughts exactly!

Alos - What off limits mean to me is at this point in my life, I can spend my vacation time with the family at Disneyland. At this point in my family life, I can't spend vacations on the water prepping for tournaments likeI used to. It's just me but without the off limits - I won't fish the ProAms....

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:13 pm

MY QUESTION IS, WOULD'NT IT BE FAIR TO MAKE IT OFF LIMITS UNTIL THE ACTUAL DAY OF THE TOURNAMENT, SEEMS THAT WOULD REALLY EVEN OUT THE PLAYING FIELD ??

???

Dave Mayo · Post by **Dave Mayo** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:22 pm

looks great count me in ive sent my Oroville entry in already
see ya there

Dave

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:50 am

Good points Ricky. I'd like to see a show up and fish myself. Imagine all those shallow fish not taking a beating in practice

The problem is MOST anglers want to fish a least one day of practice. The decision (though not totally locked in) was that there would be more entries with one practice day. I agree many of my best finishes were with no practice or a horrible practice and I was still "looking" for 'em. I think one day fits most people the best. It certainly helps with vacation days and cost, limiting practice to one day. Please remember there are several guys helping with the decisions. Both pro and non boaters.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:55 am

I really would like to emphasize that it's a group of angler's, both pro and am, that are advising Mark and the AC bunch. Although Gary has given us lots to consider, he's not alone in giving out advice.

sTony

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:57 am

I'm easy. I just want to go fishing. Period!

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:24 pm

I am one of many anglers helping with this, both pro and non-boater. That's what makes this idea cool, and WORK. Some of the advisors are just "bashful". Remember, the first 50 pro's to sign up for all 3 events get a Dobyns Rod.

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