Night tournament; dead fish and floaters

[basstrophy]

I just fished a night tournament this last weekend. As we weighed in our fish at 12:45 am I noticed several dead fish, dozen or so pilled next to the weigh in master. Then after returning to the boat my fishing buddy tells me that there were several floaters next to the ramp. I found this very disturbing!

I'm not going to blame anyone but the fisherman, we need to take great care of our catch. My fishing buddy and I always use Rejuvenade in our live wells in every tournament. The cost of the container of Rejuvenade is $12.99 at Delta bait and tackle which last us a whole year of tournaments. The warmer the water the higher death rates are possible. I hate to see such a high death rate in any tournament. I can see why the Fish and Game has set the rules about the six hour tournaments after June 15 to Aug 15 of each year. Kudos to F&G.

Then during the second weigh as I was watching, I over heard a person say,"We could have neted several floaters at the ramp, including a 13 pounder and several fives. The half pound deduction would have NOT been a problem". I know when someone says this, they would never have attempted this but it's an opportunity for someone not so honest to cheat.

Overall I just hate to see dead fish, as tournament fishermen we need to take care of our resources and protect our sport. If F&G saw what I did I'm sure they would have been just as upset as I am.

I do want to mention that I don't and never blame any organization, circuit or anyone that puts on tournaments they have to follow F&G rules, but it's the tournament fishermen responsiblity to protect our resources and our sport. Keep your live wells clean, running and use some type of protective replenishing solution in your live wells expecially during warmer water. We did and all of our fish are alive and well.

signed
concerned fisherman

[Dewayne]

I got a chance to talk to Dennis Lee (DFG Biologist) a couple years ago and there was something he said that shocked me. Fish can be even tougher to keep alive at night than in the day. The surface water during the day has a higher O2 level due to the algae in the water giving off oxygen during photosynthesis. During the night it consumes oxygen. This leads to lower dissolved oxygen levels at night.

Because of this it is more critical to have good aerators and run them on constant at night. Since many night fishermen are concerned about battery power they do not run the pumps enough leading to a high dead fish ratio. Understanding this can really improve the problem of night tournament fish survival.

[Robert F]

I respect anybodys opinion (even an anonymous one) about tournament kill rates. I believe tournament bass fishermen to be the most conservation conscious fishermen on the water. BUT I am getting a little tired of hearing about the mortality of a few fish being attributed to the tournament scene. Everybody on the water has the right to kill 5 of those fish each and every day. Would it be a good idea? NO. But the DFG, the non-tournament public and a few holier than I's cant put up with even a percentage loss in tournament fishing. We have rules that limit the tournament duration. But the public is allowed to fish 24 hours. We have live release boats (paid for by the entry fees) spreading the fish as to not concentrate the release by the weigh-in marinas. We buy additives, use ice and run our aerators and circ pumps religiously. Some fishermen have even added pure oxygen systems to their boats to keep the fish alive and healthy. Still some die. Studies have placed the tournament mortality rate in the single digits. For the number of fish brought to the scales or culled on the water that is pretty darned good. Don't get me wrong. I do support any action possible to release every one of these fish and cant see any reason for fish being left by the marina dead or near dead. BUT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL 5 A DAY. Many people kill more than their five. DFG should worry about those people.

[Dan Pollard]

Robert Just one correction I might make to your comments. A fishing license does not permit you to kill 5 fish per day. But to have 5 fish in possession per day. That means if you consume 5 fish you can go out the next day and catch 5 more. Put them in your freeser. and you are technically done till they are consumed. Will any one check the freeser probably not but that is the law. I agree with everything you said, I to am a tournament fisherman. An go out of my way to handle my fish carefully and be sure to release them alive back into the water. Fishing Tournaments has taught me the value of catch and release. Prior to tournament fishing, I kept everything, I have changed my ways

[bassindon69]

It is a fact that a small percentage of fish will die in any tournament. With some of the night tourneys that have two weigh-in times you can times that by two. Its like tourneys in one. Most I am sure do there best for the fish. My wells never stop pumping fresh water. I took a dead fish in my self. (gill hooked)

Don.

[Robert F]

Agreed Dan. Any tournament fisherman have one bass in their frig? Probably not but you would think we had the thing full. DFG is out of control when it comes to watching over tournament activities. I live in San Diego where we have no stamp requirements but I have a Delta stamp, a Colorado River stamp and an Ocean enhancement stamp. I pay entry fees for FLW, WON, ABA and San Diego Bass Council tournaments that a portion goes to a special fee for the DFG. So I support the DFG far more than the general public. I have been fortunate enough to only loose one fish this year. Freak gill plate damage from a crankbait. The only fish that I am aware of killing in multiple years. No I am not a Saint. But to the general fishing public and the DFG that one fish should not have been killed. Rubbish.

[biteme]

Sometimes it just cant be helped. I had a dead 3lber this Saturday. The fish hit a top water lure and was hooked in the tongue. Looked like a ok hook removal. But in about a hour the fish died. Sometimes it just cant be helped.

[Dewayne]

See we went and pulled Oxy Dave back out of retirement.

For those that don't recognise the writings, BJ is the famous Oxy Dave. Acording to him all fish die except for the ones in live wells that have the Oxygen Injection system he sells.

YYYAWWNN!!

[lionkiller]

I respect anybodys opinion (even an anonymous one) about tournament kill rates. I believe tournament bass fishermen to be the most conservation conscious fishermen on the water. BUT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL 5 A DAY. Many people kill more than their five. DFG should worry about those people.

You also have the right to remain silent.....

So, I could've killed 20 bass last week & I plan to 'kill' 20-25 this week. How long you think this resource will last if my only concern is me & my 'rights'? Should I consider anything else here besides what I'm legally entitled to? Where's the higher ground here....and why aren't we on it?

If we think more about the resource (fish) & less about what we can get away with, our grandkids might have something to fish for.

[Robert F]

Lionkiller, Does your real name happen to be Michael Moore? Do not edit somebody's post to create drama. If you are going to quote me use the whole thing. If YOU have time and the need to kill 20 to 25 fish next week, do it. I will be on the water three days this week. Only enough time to kill 15. I hope that I wont kill one fish. It may happen. If it does, I will have the proper documentation and paid for the right to kill that fish. I will loose a half a pound from my limit. The fish will be given to a person at the dock that wants to eat the fish. When I go back next week there will be plenty of fish for me and others to catch. The people that need to be chastised are the guys that really do take 20 to 25 fish a week. Not the average tournament fisherman. We do go out of our way to protect the resource. Studies prove that the immediate and delayed mortality rate of tournament fish is much lower than the daily bag limits. Go twist peoples words someplace else.

[lionkiller]

Lionkiller, Does your real name happen to be Michael Moore? Do not edit somebody's post to create drama. If you are going to quote me use the whole thing. If YOU have time and the need to kill 20 to 25 fish next week, do it. I will be on the water three days this week. Only enough time to kill 15. I hope that I wont kill one fish. It may happen. If it does, I will have the proper documentation and paid for the right to kill that fish. I will loose a half a pound from my limit. The fish will be given to a person at the dock that wants to eat the fish. When I go back next week there will be plenty of fish for me and others to catch. The people that need to be chastised are the guys that really do take 20 to 25 fish a week. Not the average tournament fisherman. We do go out of our way to protect the resource. Studies prove that the immediate and delayed mortality rate of tournament fish is much lower than the daily bag limits. Go twist peoples words someplace else.

Apologies if I offended you that much. Anyone who wants to read your post can just scroll up & decide for themselves what's twisted. I didn't change anything, just cut to the part that worked my nerves. Why reinvent the wheel?

I think that attitude of "I've got the right to..." is shortsighted & selfish. Regardless of our 'rights', we know what's right, & that's killing as few fish as possible....

Sometimes 'twisted' is a lot closer to home than we imagine.

Sincerely,

Sam L. Karnatz

[Robert F]

Thank you Sam. Apologies to you for the Michael Moore comment. A post like the edited version would work my nerves as well. The portion that you removed relates my personal beliefs that most of us are careful. Far more careful than the general public. Also working my nerves is there have been tournament permits yanked for excess deadloss. The amazing thing is that less than a limit loss for 100 guys is a problem. But the DFG can play the "no budget for enforcement" card when you report over limit/ undersized violations by bank fishermen.

[Brian]

Hey lionkiller,

How many lions have you killed?

[badbass25]

I know for a fact that there a quite a bit of people that fished one particular night tournament every year and only fish that one tournament every year... There are a lot of people that fish tournaments, but not on a regular basis and aren't aware of how to care for fish in a livewell and how important it is to keep the fish alive in the long run.
Wes

[stickbait]

I respect anybodys opinion (even an anonymous one) about tournament kill rates. I believe tournament bass fishermen to be the most conservation conscious fishermen on the water. BUT I am getting a little tired of hearing about the mortality of a few fish being attributed to the tournament scene. Everybody on the water has the right to kill 5 of those fish each and every day. Would it be a good idea? NO. But the DFG, the non-tournament public and a few holier than I's cant put up with even a percentage loss in tournament fishing. We have rules that limit the tournament duration. But the public is allowed to fish 24 hours. We have live release boats (paid for by the entry fees) spreading the fish as to not concentrate the release by the weigh-in marinas. We buy additives, use ice and run our aerators and circ pumps religiously. Some fishermen have even added pure oxygen systems to their boats to keep the fish alive and healthy. Still some die. Studies have placed the tournament mortality rate in the single digits. For the number of fish brought to the scales or culled on the water that is pretty darned good. Don't get me wrong. I do support any action possible to release every one of these fish and cant see any reason for fish being left by the marina dead or near dead. BUT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL 5 A DAY. Many people kill more than their five. DFG should worry about those people.

I don't have a problem with anybody killing 5 for the freezer ( with in reason) .. but to kill 5 and let them float .. well ....thats a problem!

seaya
mark

[bassindon69]

You guys are to much LOL!!! Robert was trying to make a point , not kill 5 fish and let them float
One more just for fun

Don.

[Robert F]

[quote="stickbaitI don't have a problem with anybody killing 5 for the freezer ( with in reason) .. but to kill 5 and let them float .. well ....thats a problem!

seaya
mark[/quote]

Whoa! Where does that come from? Did anybody say "lets kill 5 and let em float?" Dont see that anywhere within my post. I do appreciate you not chopping out part of the post to fit your point of view. Fish died at a tournament. That is the point of the thread. They should not have. All agreed. Fish die everyday. They should not. Far fewer die in the hands of tournament fishermen than bank fishermen. If DFG is concerned about fish dying, they should make bank fishermen file kill reports like they do tournament directors. If the bank fisherman meets an unwritten quota or somebody decides to file a undefendable protest of his actions, we should yank his license or make him pay an observer fee. Sound fair? Didnt think so. Floaters should have been scooped. But what if some of them lived?

[bj]

basstrophy,

You can bet your last dollar with confidence that summer bass tournament kills ARE A “Can of wormsâ€

[mark poulson]

Maybe the TDs could take more of a leadership role in this.
For example, provide packets of Rejuvenade, or some other additive, to each participant. Entry fees are certainly high enough to cover the cost, if there is no sponsor support.
Maybe even a bag of ice each.
I know, I know, we're all grownups, and it isn't the TD's job to make sure we handle fish well, but it is in their own self interest, as well as in the best interest of the sport.
Dead fish, low survival rates, eventually lower fish available, none of that can be good in the long run.
I carry frozen water bottles when the water temps get up into the high 70's, and change them out as they thaw in the live well. Works out to just about the right spacing for proper hydration for me. And I use Rejuvenade, and run my circulating pump full time. I run the recirulating system every hour or so, for fifteen minutes, to put clean water in the live well, and then retreat and put in another frozen bottle.

[basstrophy]

bj,

Are you associated with Fish and Game? Maybe F&G can educate Tournament Directors or permit subscribers about the risk of massive fish kills during summer night tournaments. This way before a night tournament the TD can help prepare the anglers with ways of preventing their catch from expiring. Just like the post above as Mark explained.

As for lobbing to stop tournament fishing during anytime of the year I'm totally against this. As soon as you get something like this started there is never a end. The six hour time limitations is the final line as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe Wester Bass should have a sticky (if they don't already) about educating tournament anglers or any angler on ways to keep their catch alive in all seasons and conditions, ie; deep hooked fish (how to remove hooks), how to release air bladders, fishing for deep water bass without killing them, helping fish heal that have sores, summer time stress, winter time stress, spring time stress, trophy catch measurements so they can purchase a fiberglass copy and not kill a trophy bass. This list can be huge.

I'm new to this site and haven't had a chance to surf the entire site so if WB already has this sticky, High-Fives.

[Phil]

OUR OPINION IS, AND YOU MAY DISAGREE , BUT YOU ARE ALWAYS GOING TO GET DEAD FISH . KEEP THEM TAKE THEM HOME, GIVE THEM AWAY. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE US ALL LOOK BAD AND TOSS BACK INTO THE LAKE......YOU ARE ALLOWED 5 BASS IN THIS STATE TO TAKE HOME LEGALLY. SO TAKE THE DEAD FISH HOME. AND PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T TOSS THEM ALONG SIDE THE ROAD, LIKE WE FOUND LAST YEAR UP HERE.

THANK YOU

JIGS