US Open Cheater?

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:46 am

Just wanted to be post #200.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:48 am

Sounds like a plan. If the HBC can do it, so can the other tounament organizations. They would have to pony up something to attract enough "volunteers", but should be doable.
Unless, of course, they're all too "pussificated".

I had to throw that in, Rick.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:51 am

Pussification sounds too much like a Rush Limbaughism to me. Barf

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:54 am

Brian Linehan wrote:Pussification sounds too much like a Rush Limbaughism to me. Barf

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:59 am

Not to mention how tragic it would be for someone to fail (65% accuracy in one reliable test), lose their title and winnings, and have done nothing wrong only to be labeled a cheat and ostracized for life???

Thanks but no for me...

Roger

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:00 am

triple barf for sure!

DL · Post by DL » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:01 am

They would have to pony up something to attract enough "volunteers", but should be doable.

What are you gonna do when you get 125 teams and 12 volunteers? All these proposed theories work in a Vacuum...but real world application is another story. How much would ABA have to pay you to drive to Mead and ride around and watch a team fish?
Room $65 a night = $130
Gas to and from Mead = $150,
food $20 - $40 per day.

$350 per team X 125 teams at the TOC = $43,750 taken out of the TOC prize pool. I think that would leave about $11 dollars to split among the top finishers

And yes, I am playing the Devil's advocate

I am no way advocating against having observers in the boat, just putting numbers to the solution at TOC's...

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:06 am

What person in their right mind would want to melt in the Vegas sun for 10 hours while watching two guys fish all day? Good luck finding people to sign up for that. There is no easy fix for this. Overreacting is a waste of time and energy.

DL · Post by DL » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:07 am

Kevin wrote:What person in their right mind would want to melt in the Vegas sun for 10 hours while watching two guys fish all day? Good luck finding people to sign up for that. There is no easy fix for this. Overreacting is a waste of time and energy.

My point exactly. Anyone willing to go out there will be fishing the event...

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:08 am

So let me get this straight. At the ABA fishoff for example at Clear Lake which has 160-200 boats you are going to get that many observers for a "Team" championship. So now there are 3 people in each boat? Some of these folks have rather small boats if I am not mistaken. Lake Mead Tri States or ABA South Classic 75-125 boats. Maybe they should contract with the Boy Scouts and they can earn a survival badge for living thru 2 days of rough water beat down. We can pin the badge on their Sospender at the awards. Just get the metal and Lie detectors. Think about the fact that ABA has mantatory lie detectors at their fishoffs and random thruout the season. Mike attended very few ABA events? Maybe he did it cause he just did not like them, or maybe he did not want to chance it? We will never know. It is all about deterrance, legal or not. The dude still caught some damn good bags of fish. That is what is the most puzzling thing to me in this whole mess. Did he cheat to catch them? There is the biggest question. Rick G.

Kenny Webb · Post by **Kenny Webb** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:08 am

Even if you only get 20-30 volunteers that is better than 0. Take the number of volunteers and do a random boat drawing to see who gets one each day. Most cheaters have some type of plan it seems like...so this will put a big problem with their attach.

This will not take care of the whole problem but will definitely help.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:11 am

Maybe they should contract with the Boy Scouts and they can earn a survival badge for living thru 2 days of rough water beat down.

Sure. Just what I want.....the liability of having someone's 10 year old on my boat in 3 foot chop at 65 mph! Besides, I have a Ranger! Hahahaha! I sell insurance so I think about these things. Sorry!

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:17 am

Come on Brian, they can get their rope tying badge going to the dock every day! Rick G.

Kelly Ripa · Post by **Kelly Ripa** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:19 am

So QUESTION:

I was an HBC VTO at Diamond Valley this year. Should I have DQ'd my pro for his couple of lifejacket violations during the course of the day? Having been in this sport as long as I have I just reminded him and he put it on after the fact. What keeps your VTO's from being intimidated by a godhead at the helm of the boat. Jeez I don't want to be the guy who brings this person down is going to be in their minds like it was in mine. I figured if it got out of hand I'd issue the warning that I was going to pull the plug if it happened again but luckily he got the hint....I see where a VTO could help in some instances but then all those little tiny infractions that could bite an angler in pursuit of a big bag in the butt because the VTO called it on the first big motor start up without a jacket on....Hard to be the VTO and call it on the "little" stuff. I did not consider it a major thing so I let it slide....but I wasn't in every boat so which VTO would have a problem and which would not now becomes an issue....Tough to police this sport for sure and any TD deserves a gold star for trying.

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:20 am

Shawn I feel your anger...and rightfully so.. Here I was comparing my situation about getting 2nd to him 2-3 times and 3rd to him 2-3 times and he has literally cost you 10's of thousands... Do what you have to do bro...I dont blame you.
And Rick, that TriStates loss to him is also grounds for a talk with a lawyer as well.

j10b...Youre right that I may not be affected when a baseball player cheats and Im affected in this deal because Ive lost money to this clown.
But If you are trying to tell me that the majority of fans give a flying F*#k about players taking steriods then youre flat wrong.
Fans want to see those 500 ft BOMBS. When McGuire, Sosa and Bonds were hammering bombs out of the stadiums during the season and in the homerun derbies...DO YOU THINK THEY CARED??? HELL NO!!!
Fans use baseball as ENTERTAINMENT...yeah its a sport but fans want to see the 500ft jack and the 100 mph fastball and its doesnt matter to most people but the purists how they do it. Again its entertainment to the fans. The players and managers and MLB look at it differently thats why when Rose cheated he was banned. Because what Rose did could jeopardize the direct outcome of the game, not just one players stats. If Pete Rose bet on baseball and bet on his own team to lose then the game was nothing but fake wrestling. If a player juices up in baseball, he may get his jacks and RBI's and strikeouts but there are still 8 other players on the field that have to produce.. Its a TEAM SPORT..Period... MUCH DIFFERENT THAN BASS FISHING.

AND if you think that not wearing a vest with the big motor on or keeping a fish that ate a jerkbait and got foul hooked is the same as LOADING A BASS WITH LEAD WEIGHTS...Then you better think again. They are NOT the same thing...
Yes doing the first 2 things is breaking a rule and wrong and possible grounds for DQ for that day BUT loading a bass with Lead is FLAT OUT CHEATING...and Grounds for a lifetime Ban. PERIOD!!

How you CAN NOT see the pattern here on his "Dominance" and his well planned out cheating attempt in the Open and link them together is beyond me. So are either one of his friends or you just have your head in the sand!!!

Pete

DL · Post by DL » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:25 am

Rick G wrote:Come on Brian, they can get their rope tying badge going to the dock every day! Rick G.

Here is a list of the Merit Badges one could get as a VTO:

Crime Prevention
Emergency Preparedness
Fish and Wildlife Management
Canoeing
First Aid
Lifesaving
Motorboating
Watersports
Small boat sailing

If you think I am kidding, look them up...

PS: this is an official thread hi-jack...and I aplogize

S. Bailey · Post by **S. Bailey** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:28 am

come on rick get real... if HBC can do it than so can all the other orgs. Its not that hard to get volunteers . If everybody with a sponsors asked them to kick in for a huge goodie bag for all the VTO's Like Ken Huddleston does im sure a bunch of people who live close to wherever the tounament is would volunteer. What about local bass clubs donating their time. Maybe YOU could offer a discount on a new boats for the VTO's. There are endless ways to get people to volunteer their time Rick. If you dont want 3 people in the boat than oh freakin well. THAN GO PLAY GOLF !!!Sounds like the lie detector thing will be good for a deterant but get real. Any dick head can pass a lie detector if he knows what he is doing .Like tuna man said 65 %. And like Kenny said. If you can only get a certain number of VTO'S than randomly put them in boats plain and simple. Every org has a year to plan to get maybe 150 VTO'S . A year is a long time. I really dont see it being that hard buddy.

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:30 am

Kevin wrote:What person in their right mind would want to melt in the Vegas sun for 10 hours while watching two guys fish all day? Good luck finding people to sign up for that. There is no easy fix for this. Overreacting is a waste of time and energy.

+1000 and trust me by the middle of the day that person would be nothing by a pain in the azz for all 3 of us

S. Bailey · Post by **S. Bailey** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:30 am

Kelly Ripa, just lost all respect for you. Yes you should have dqed your pro. un freakin believable you did not

Dynastyworms · Post by **Dynastyworms** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:33 am

Ha ha DL said motorboating! You motorboating sob!

Rick
Just put observers in the top 20+ boats after day one. That's all you really need. Just make sure u have the people with the chance at money.

scanbass · Post by **scanbass** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:36 am

Kelly Ripa - you absolutely should have reported him not wearing a life vest. It's grounds for disqualification and there is NO EXCUSE for a pro fisherman to NOT be wearing a life vest or following rules during the tournament. It's ridiculous that a simple rule like wearing a life vest can't be followed - and these guys fishing the big tournaments should know better, and any VTO on a boat should know it too! I sure hope your guy didn't not really wear a vest - should have been DQ'd from HBC in a heartbeat... and you should have been the one to report it. What'd you think you were onboard for, a joy ride?!

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:37 am

Kelly...It was your job as VTO to insure your "Pro" played by the rules... It wasnt your day for a guide trip or a leasure day on the water learning. You were a Volunteer Tournament Observer...There to ensure that the Pro didnt break any rules..
Okay I can see someone forgetting to put on a vest and you reminding him once but if it happened blatantly or repeatedly then it was your JOB to report it to the TD and let the TD make the decision on what to do. It was your job to report any violations to the TD if any were made... Fail!!

You didnt do your job ...Thats sucks for the VTO's that did it right and for the Pros that didnt beak the rules... What the heck was the point of you being there then???
I guess Kyles VTO wasnt the only guy on a guide trip...

Pete

DL · Post by DL » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:38 am

Dynastyworms wrote:Ha ha DL said motorboating! You motorboating sob!.

Had I known "motorboating" was a badge earning skill, I would have joined the Scouts long ago..

S. Bailey · Post by **S. Bailey** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:38 am

dynastyworms has it just right . Good work bro !!

S. Bailey · Post by **S. Bailey** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:41 am

ok im on fire right now .... I just read your post like 10 times. Did you really think it was ok to not report your pro ??? Ken will not be happy with this im sure.

scanbass · Post by **scanbass** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:54 am

Kelly Ripa wrote: I did not consider it a major thing so I let it slide....but I wasn't in every boat so which VTO would have a problem and which would not now becomes an issue.....

YOU didn't consider it a major thing? Last I checked VTO's were there to enforce rules and make sure everything goes according to tournament rules - not use their discretion to decide "what now becomes an issue". NEWSFLASH - no life vest IS an issue.

mike goodwin · Post by **mike goodwin** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:02 am

Baseball and Bass'n has been a huge part of the Goodwin
family since Clint and I were barely out of diapers, which would
be a LONG time ago. We had the best parents (John & Dee)
in the world to thank for that. I know in my heart that Baseball
& Bass'n kept me out of trouble growing up in Bakersfield,
again thanks to my great mother & dad.
There is no way I would let a cheater in fish'n or baseball take
away the two things I love the most in the world outside my
family.

HYPOCRITE-----not in my house.

I will continue fish'n every event I can, and watch my YANKEES
every nite.......MG

Steve Reed · Post by **Steve Reed** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:10 am

I don't think you can have observers for these events. It has to be policed as much as possible but it would be difficult to have observers.

Now, maybe 5 tournament officials or volunteers that are randomly drawn to ride in your boat is ok, but to get an observer for every team is ridiculous.

HBC did it sure, but HBC gave a lot of product away and had guys people wanted to ride around and watch all day. Unfortunately, I think that series may have lost its momentum. I suppose only time will tell.

I think the honor system and as many safeguards as possible is the only way to go. Tunaman made a great point though. Lie detector tests are straight up BS. No accuracy, no letigimacy in court, and most importantly they are subjective as the tester sees them. The tester determines what seems inaccurate.

Lie detector results would be appealed in court and most lawsuits would end in bankruptcy by the tournament organization.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:15 am

diapers, which would
be a LONG time ago.

a LONG time ago! lol

What up Mikey???

Nunyo Bizness · Post by **Nunyo Bizness** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:18 am

DL wrote:
Rick G wrote:Come on Brian, they can get their rope tying badge going to the dock every day! Rick G.
Here is a list of the Merit Badges one could get as a VTO:

Crime Prevention
Emergency Preparedness
Fish and Wildlife Management
Canoeing
First Aid
Lifesaving
Motorboating
Watersports
Small boat sailing

If you think I am kidding, look them up...

PS: this is an official thread hi-jack...and I aplogize

Motorboating....I have that badge, but it had nothing to do with a boat

Yoz

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:22 am

Yankee's are Cheaters!!!

Go A's

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:29 am

Nunyo Bizness wrote:
DL wrote:
Rick G wrote:Come on Brian, they can get their rope tying badge going to the dock every day! Rick G.
Here is a list of the Merit Badges one could get as a VTO:

Crime Prevention
Emergency Preparedness
Fish and Wildlife Management
Canoeing
First Aid
Lifesaving
Motorboating
Watersports
Small boat sailing

If you think I am kidding, look them up...

PS: this is an official thread hi-jack...and I aplogize
Motorboating....I have that badge, but it had nothing to do with a boat

Yoz

its that the 1 for blowing bubbles in the tub

mike goodwin · Post by **mike goodwin** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:33 am

What's shaken Bri-awful hot over here as you know.

Guys just remember WE are all our own PO PO on the water.
This kind of crap eventually takes care of its self, I believe. Most
theive's get caught sooner or later.
I also think this crud just brought us bass'n bro's & gal's even
closer to one another. THIS IS NOT A BAD DAY OR TWO, IT'S A
GREAT DAY.
Let's all go fish'n again.

Say hi to bro for me.....MG

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:36 am

Right on brother! Totally agree. Say hi to Clint for us!

Nunyo Bizness · Post by **Nunyo Bizness** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:46 am

macinckirk wrote:
Nunyo Bizness wrote:
DL wrote: Here is a list of the Merit Badges one could get as a VTO:

Crime Prevention
Emergency Preparedness
Fish and Wildlife Management
Canoeing
First Aid
Lifesaving
Motorboating
Watersports
Small boat sailing

If you think I am kidding, look them up...

PS: this is an official thread hi-jack...and I aplogize
Motorboating....I have that badge, but it had nothing to do with a boat

Yoz
its that the 1 for blowing bubbles in the tub

Nope, it the one for blowing bubbles in the Valley of the mounds...

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:50 am

Nunyo Bizness wrote:
macinckirk wrote:
Nunyo Bizness wrote: Motorboating....I have that badge, but it had nothing to do with a boat

Yoz
its that the 1 for blowing bubbles in the tub
Nope, it the one for blowing bubbles in the Valley of the mounds...

speaking of that tell R to forward that pic text from yesterday to u

Kelly Ripa · Post by **Kelly Ripa** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:52 am

It's Okay Shaun...And anyone else who has lost all respect for me.

I sat and said nothing until the main motor was fired and then I reminded him. Nothing flagrent. The man had other $hit on his mind was not in his own boat and fired up the main. I had him put on his jacket. It never occured to me until all the nitpicking of rules came about in this past year. When I thought about it in retrospect I was most likely wrong for not firing up my cell at that moment but I made a judgement call and while I feel rules are rules I just can't get behind that washing out a guy. I suppose I'll never make the big times as a VTO...

...I've done it ( fired up a motor only to see my vest looking at me) and I think most people here have had this experience. I knew I would get fried for admiting that it was possible for a VTO to make a mistake. Tough to say if a vto is good or bad now that you've heard I cheated....

Serious as a heart attack here: I didn't think much of it at the time but in retro spect I fell down on the job and for that I admit I was wrong.

Pete Marino: That was one heck of a well thought out post. Thanks for your input.

Sorry Shawn.... I guess I suck as a VTO HUH ?

Rip

K Luby · Post by **K Luby** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:56 am

I have read all of the post on this topic and here is what I have come up with.
I fished the U.S Open as a pro, I worked my balls off to do the best I could I finished in 60th place and was very pissed on how I fished the last day, I just folded like a house of cards and thats on me. I went up against the best pros in the west and I am proud of my effort. While I was pouring my heart and soul into this Mike Hart was giving it to me in the a**. If I here anyone try to defend this piece of sh**. It makes me want to throw up. How can I look my wife in the eye and say I'm going to spend $1350.00 to fish when I now am faced with the truth that that some guys are F***ed. This hole thing is going to make me think long and hard about doing this anymore. I've done this for 30 years and have loved every minute of it. So Fyou Mike Hart Fyou.

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:58 am

thats OK Kelly, I would of done the same thing, anyone that has fished a tnry in sol ca has cheated just on the speed limits so I would of just let that go also.

oh after roberts little post if you have not broke 1 of any of those rules

May you cast the 1st stone

Kelly Ripa · Post by **Kelly Ripa** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:09 pm

I enforced the spirt of the law not the letter...Actually it's not okay Kirk.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:12 pm

Dynastyworms wrote:Ha ha DL said motorboating! You motorboating sob!

Rick
Just put observers in the top 20+ boats after day one. That's all you really need. Just make sure u have the people with the chance at money.

Thats more than reasonable and a great idea. My boat is plenty big enough, but if you think that if Joey and Dino feel like takin the duck boat in a Havasu TOC and havin a 200+ lb observer keepin them from some skinny backwater is not goin to be drama get ready. Whatever it takes I guess is fine with me. Rick G.

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:15 pm

well maybe thats way i would not be a vto or be good at policing someone, cause the little time I have been out here fishing tnrys there is NOT 1 Person or Org that Does it by the letter of the law

So whats the real point, from what i've seen it changes at every tnry

H*ll you could never even hold a tnry on perris if the rules

were inforced

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:19 pm

H*LL here is a idea

Lets get some back ground checks and lie det tests done on the TD's and there Staff every tnry also

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:27 pm

Brian Linehan wrote:If a polygraph doesn't hold up in California law, what's the point Rick? They aren't 100% accurate and that's why!

How do you expect an organization to withold someone's money if they failed the polygraph? If the org did decide to keep the money, the angler in question would simply file a civil suit and win......EVERYTIME!

Add in the fact that litigation is expensive and the orgs don't have that kind of $$$ to blow. You and I are all too familiar with litigation these days! lol

There's no easy fix. We all need to be more vigilant I think.

+1 WON has AAA's for a reason. Maybe there needs to be rules like BASS that require the partners to be with each other or get DQed.

Dan I understand what you are saying but to some of the guys piling on.
Did I say I wanted this to be Baseball? I said some of you guys are hypocrites. Mike is a cheater period DOT! But dont for a second think that there arent cheaters in this post. I know some guys that have culled dead fish. I know other guys that break the Cali law all the time. Hell I speak from experience, either being on your boat or watching you. Again No difference in culling a dead fish for weigh and sticking a 3 oz weigh in another one, you are screwing the field.

Lastly on the baseball thing... lets take it a step farther, Who cares about the fans. What about the other 31 shortstops? What about the other players! Yeah its fun to draw an quarter a guy but come on. Seems we have a double standard here.

What makes you better than Mike? Does it change he is a scumbag? NO! But before you cut his balls off make sure you arent breaking the rules yourself. He is never going to fish again.

Actually he shoudl fish and someone have to ride bitch so he can pay everyone back for everything he took for the past couple sweeps

DanIsaac · Post by **DanIsaac** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:54 pm

J-

I never claimed to be better than anyone? As for me doing anything on my boat, please explain? I don't even fish tournaments anymore?

With regards to the baseball thing, your missing my point. My point is that we as a society allowed this to happen by continuing to praise and honor these cheaters while they were in the midst of the very act, making excuses, and believing every one offered, even though none of it made sense, or added up.

I don't want the same thing to happen in bass fishing.
It's not OK, Never will be OK, EVER, PERIOD! I don't care to what degree, it's NOT OK.

Personally, I do not wish this individual any harm whatsoever. I just don't want to see him fishing competitively ever again, anywhere, at any time.

He forfeited that priveledge with his own actions.

Dan

npangler · Post by **npangler** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:03 pm

I have been reading all these post about the hart deal and everybody
seems to focus on HOW he cheated the way i see it until you can stop a team or solo fisherman from simply putting a cage of fish somewhere on the lake before the tourny your wasting your time trying to stop cheaters. as far as hart is concerned I allways thought damn nobody is that good.

CN · Post by CN » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Kelly Ripa wrote:So QUESTION:

I was an HBC VTO at Diamond Valley this year. Should I have DQ'd my pro for his couple of lifejacket violations during the course of the day? Having been in this sport as long as I have I just reminded him and he put it on after the fact. What keeps your VTO's from being intimidated by a godhead at the helm of the boat. Jeez I don't want to be the guy who brings this person down is going to be in their minds like it was in mine. I figured if it got out of hand I'd issue the warning that I was going to pull the plug if it happened again but luckily he got the hint....I see where a VTO could help in some instances but then all those little tiny infractions that could bite an angler in pursuit of a big bag in the butt because the VTO called it on the first big motor start up without a jacket on....Hard to be the VTO and call it on the "little" stuff. I did not consider it a major thing so I let it slide....but I wasn't in every boat so which VTO would have a problem and which would not now becomes an issue....Tough to police this sport for sure and any TD deserves a gold star for trying.

I was a VTO at two of the HBC event's. If I remember that was brought up more than once. So now the people you want in the boat as an obserever can pick and choose what they disclose or what they consider to be a violation.

Just my opinion Kelly but if thats the case why have them at all.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:25 pm

Mike wrote:Yankee's are Cheaters!!!

Go Red Sox !!!!!

+1

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:54 pm

DanIsaac wrote:J-

I never claimed to be better than anyone? As for me doing anything on my boat, please explain? I don't even fish tournaments anymore?

With regards to the baseball thing, your missing my point. My point is that we as a society allowed this to happen by continuing to praise and honor these cheaters while they were in the midst of the very act, making excuses, and believing every one offered, even though none of it made sense, or added up.

I don't want the same thing to happen in bass fishing.
It's not OK, Never will be OK, EVER, PERIOD! I don't care to what degree, it's NOT OK.

Personally, I do not wish this individual any harm whatsoever. I just don't want to see him fishing competitively ever again, anywhere, at any time.

He forfeited that priveledge with his own actions.

Dan

Dan I agree with you... its the other guys that dont seem to realize the similarities

That why i just said that I see what you were saying.

I know some of the guys dont know it but I have been on boats where it was said, I have culled dead fish and will cull dead fish.

you are right he did dump it out the window. But if someone wanted their $$ back... how else would they get it but forcing him to pay it back. I mean he is a good angler. Happens all the time, you use your skills for good to repay your past crimes.

Maybe Mick should have to spend hours and hours teaching kids to fish. I don't know but he needs to give something back.

DanIsaac · Post by **DanIsaac** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:15 pm

ok, I think we've all kicked this around more than need be.
Sufficed to say Mr. Hart needs to pay the price for his decision to cheat, no question. Let's just wait and see what transpires from here out.

While I don't see law enforcement doing anything on their own here, and by that I mean the particular DA that would be involved,
it should be pretty interesting to watch play out. I quess we will see, but I'm done for now.....

Dan

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