An open question for Team Anglers and Directors

[Hollywood]

How is that a cheap shot? That is telling it how it is. Straight up. Some people work there rears off and save every penny so one day they can quit there job and jump into fishing full time. Some succede and some fail. It's not easy but if you "really" want it that bad, you will find a way to make it happen. Don't knock the guys who have a chance to fish 200+ days a year or the guys who said, I quit the 9-5 grind and now call fishing there profession.

It's all where your prioritys lie, if your a family man and want to do the sports on the weekends with the kids or watch the wife shop, nothing wrong with that but to say the guys fishing 200+ days a year or the guys who kick your rear week in and week out shouldn't be allowed to fish is wrong.

If you don't like the level you are competing at, then simply move down to where you think your getting your money invested well.

If you don't think you can win at the level your fishing at, then maybe that is not the place for you.

Talking about fishing is great but the only thing that will make you a better angler is fishing, getting on the water, talk about it all you want, it wont help your casting, presentations, boat driving, boat control, evaluations of weather, current, tides, fish movements, clarity and so on... Read allt he magazines, books, internet websties but there is no substitution for time on the water.

Get real guys.
Just getting online and telling folks that if they want to do better all they need to do is to get off their butts and go practice is much easier said than done for those of us true weekend warriors. It's a cheap shot. If it was really that easy I think there would be a lot more of us weekend warriors kicking butt.

[Schneider Fishing]

Hey Hollywood,
I could be wrong about this but I think it takes more than just 'quit your job and go fishing' to be successful at it. I'm not saying that time on the water isn't important but that I at least believe that there are numours guys out there that have tried by quitting their job and fishing full time and still not been successful. There's more to it than that or I think there would be a lot more pro anglers.

Pete,
let's not go down that road. That thread was already removed once. It does bring up the point that we would need some good rules on who can and can not fish the 'minor leagues.' Maybe it's the same for how some of folks feel about the pros fishing the TOC's which was the original topic of this thread. (You know I fished all the night events at DVL except 1 this year and that was both the heaviest sack I had and the only check I cashed. I think it could be argued that I was just lucky that night and that maybe that is my ability level. I know that I still have a lot to learn and at the same time I have also learned alot already.) I never intended for it to be an issue.

Brian,
You may also be correct. Maybe there aren't enough guys out there to even have a 'minor league' series of tournaments. I guess there's only one way to find out. It'll be interesting to see if somebody tries it.

OK now try not to bash me too much while I'm at work. Let's keep our eyes on the ball.

I think there are two real questions here.

Should the pros be allowed to fish the team TOC's?
and
How can be grow the sport (get new guys into tournament fishing)?

Have a great day guys and don't forget to get some work done.

[bigbass111]

Other than deifining a "PRO" through the dictionary, it means PROFESSION (you do it for a living). VERY SIMPLE!!!! and a guide or retired angler that fishes every day could be called a PRO!!! Correct?

The only True PRO's in our sport are the ELITE anglers and a Hand full of FLW guys that actually earned their right to be there. (qualified, not exemption or buy-in)(please dont get me started on that one)

The rules for most trails have alot of gray area's and should be brought to attention. Because the future of our sports cedibility is at stake. We should have qualifing trails( Am/Bronze, Semi-pro/Silver, Pro/Gold) Am $100 entry, Semi Pro $200 Entry, Pro $300 Entry) and you can only upgrade from Am/semi by qualifing in the top 10 or 20. If you are in the last 10% in points your down graded. Etc, Etc, Etc......... Make it legit, if someone does something!!

Or is that too hard to do

[bigbass111]

And if you do make the top 10 or 15 in the division your in, you must advance or drop out.

[some guy]

OK HERES AN EXAMPLE...SAY A SEMI PRO FORMAT FOR WEEKEND WARRIORS STARTS UP. I WORK VIA PHONE AND LAP TOP AND IM ON THE LAKE 3 TO 4 TIMES A WEEK...IM NOT A PRO BUT IM FISHING THE LAKE 3 TO 4 TIMES A WEEK. HOW WOULD SOME ONE DECIDE WHICH LEVEL I SHOULD FISH?

[macinckirk]

as i read this ALL I HEAR is team this team, pro/am if you want to get more guys STARTED into fishing trnys why don't you have like a draw format, so that a person that owns a boat can fish from his boat

Why in gods name does a person that has put out the money for a boat 10,000 - 40,000 that is just starting out in trny fishing have to do a team deal or go as a non-boater in a pro am

If your new to Fishing or new to a area and your looking to do alittle more then fun fish
#1 finding a club here is hard
#2 finding a partner is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN any time fast
#3 getting into a network of people that can help is Not GOING TO HAPPEN any time fast

What is needed in my eyes is some trnys were its just the everyday person beening able to get out in his boat and fish I don't want to be a backseater and have my boat sit at home just to be in a trny.

I was thinking this was about getting more people into fishing not saying well you have to have a partner, you have to have a boat that will get on DVL, you have too do this and that, Somebody needs to think about getting the guys that are out fun fishing by themselfs and would like to do alittle more then fun fish with his boat and not brake the bank doing it.

You all act like guys are made out of money and can just laid down 300.00-500.00 a month or more to fish trnys, what is needed is were a guy can spend 100.00 to fish and feel like he has a chance and then when hes got his foot in the door move up, and on the way make friends ( so maybe he can get a partner) or make alittle name for himself so someone fishing with the big dogs will say Man lets give this a try.

You know get a network going I really think there is ALOT of People out there that would like to get into a entry starting trny but does not have the money to blow like what it costs now.

Look at the guys that are making 20.00 a hr or less and have to pay for everything to live and also has a boat payment and your asking this person to give up a weeks pay check to go GIVE IT to guys they know are going to kick there azz's and then not even talk to them or help them with anything because there a no body

I think someone needs to step back and look at this from a working mans eyes and put something togther for guys that just would like to fit in the middle

Just my 2 cents

[bigbass111]

The first year of a Am/Semi/PRO would have to be based on the Anglers abilities. You would sign up for the division you think your ready for, and qualify to move up, stay qualified or fall back.

But as far as a Semi-Pro event only, it would be tough to start off based on money winning's or the amount somebody fishes. Lets face it, people can fish 7 days a week and still suck, Right! So it would have to be based off the past three years money winning's or overall points rating. But then how do you just tell someone your getting too good and you can't fish next year... I dont think you can go with a one cicuit semi/pro and have it work without gray area's.

You need to have 3 categories

Am/Bronze $100 1st Saturady of the month
Semi/Silver $200 2nd Saturday of the month
Pro/Gold $300 3rd Saturday of the month

Or have everyone fish the same day and have 1 weigh-in. But your only fishing against your skill level anglers. If you make it to PRO and dominate the PRO division good for you someone will work their way up to take you down. It will also teach the Am anglers how to fish with a large field and how to handle spots and patterns.

Plus if your a FULL time touring pro how are you going to be able to keep you points up to par and not fall back to AM. This will keep the touring PRO's away and keep it fair!
Just my 4 cents now....

[Hollywood]

Macinkirk,

1 man 1 boat style tourneys are awesome, that is what most of them are over on this side of the world. No outside influences, no co angler catching the kicker dragging behind the boat, not teams, 1 man, 1 rod,1 boat! may the creme of the crop shine at the end..

Got me a 2 day pro tour. 1 man 1 boat, this weekend.

now this style is great!

[CHANDLER]

RICK, IT IS A GOOD QUESTION BUT I THINK YOU ARE KIND OF CONFUSING THE ISSUE. I THINK BECAUSE OF MIKE AND SHAWN WINNING ON HAVASU, THIS TOPIC HAS COME UP. SURE THEY ARE GREAT FISHERMAN BUT THERE ARE ALOT OF THEM IN SO. CAL. JUST LAST YEAR THEY WERE JUST LOCAL TEAM GUYS WHO MOVED TO HAVASU FOR A SHOT AT A DREAM. MIKE FOLKESTAD, BILL SIEMENTAL, ART BERRY, ETC. HAVE ALL WON MAJOR EVENTS BUT NO ONE MINDS IF THEY FISH OUR TEAM STUFF. IS IT ANY DIFFERENT. MANY OF US CAN COMPETE AGAINST ALOT OF THE PROS ON TOUR BUT DONT CHOOSE THAT LIFESTYLE. LOOK AT ALL THE TOP WEST COAST GUYS OUT ON TOUR NOW. I THINK THE ISSUE IS MORE THAT THE FISH OFF WAS ON THEIR HOME LAKE. THAT WOULD BE THE SAME IF WE HAD A FISHOFF AT DVL (KYLE AND RICK), CASTAIC (MIKE AND ZANK), ETC. THE FISH OFFS SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE THAT NONE OF THE REGIONS THAT QUALIFY, FISH (LIKE A.C. DID PREVIOUSLY) . I KNOW THIS BRINGS UP THE TRAVELING ISSUE FOR SOME BUT WE'VE TRAVELED TO THE DESERT FOR YEARS. LETS ALL TRAVEL TO A NEUTRAL SITE. IF GUYS FROM THE DESERT COMPLAIN ABOUT GOING UP NORTH, SO BE IT. THEY HAVENT HAD TO TRAVEL FOR 20+ YEARS. JUST MY 2 CENTS

[bigbass111]

Hollywood is right!

We have a tour out here in Fl called HT3 and it's 1 on 1 no Co's or team mate's. Awesome tournament to fish and there are STD polygraphs 1-3 every tournament.

[some guy]

TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE BROTH......

IM DONE WITH THIS ONE....

FISH OR DONT.....

[Smitty]

I am not sure drawing less boats is accurate. The total number of entrants seems higher to me just spread out over more circuits. When I started fishing teams in so cal, there were 3 circuits. Now there is at least five with WON, AC, ABA, NBW, and 100% not to mention TOP Stick and FLW Pro Ams that were not around or out west then taking some of the draw as well. I would be curious to know the total number of partcipants (with and without double counting) in the state of california for money prize tournaments in 2007 vs say 2000. Maybe when Clear Lake goes off limits I will try and compile that data...I bet G Kramer or JB might have a good idea as to that number.
Smitty

[Ron T.]

I agree with Chandler on the fish off part . They really need to be held at a common ground . AC had it figured out but dropped the ball on that deal . We all started out like anybody else , loosing money and taking our lumps . You did not here us crying about it .If guys feel they are at a disadvantage so be it . I for one am still paying my dues and willing to except what it takes to get better . It does not happen in a year , two years or even three . The guys at the top have many years under their belt . Nothing can beat experiance . So. Cal is already overwhelmed with too many tournaments , we dont need to add anymore orgs. For the guys that feel they are at a disadvantage my suggestion to them would be the Top Stick . They can fish with some of So. Cals finest and if they pay attention thay will find themselves learning a lot ! Not to mention a smaller entry fee .

[John Barron]

Hey Smitty:
I hope things are well. I hate to disagree with you but I'm going to. The draw is less at least by 15. Today alone I talked with 15 people that have quit fishing teams because they were tired of handing their money to the same guys each weekend. They have gone back to fishing club tournaments. Now I may not be a good measurement for this but if I talked to 15 how many more have left?
Say hey to Julie for me.
jb

[Rick G]

Everybody has alot of great points. But they all revolve around the same things we are currently doing. Maybe my question should have been "If you wanted to run the Ultimate T. Trail, how would YOU structure it". If you think what we have is cool, thats ok. I think we need to think a little outside the box if we are going to continue to GROW.IMHO. Thanks alot to all who took the time on this issue to care. Rick G.

[Lance]

I dont see anything wrong with my idea's

[Schneider Fishing]

I don't think we need ANOTHER team circut. What we need is for one of them to take a chance and change their format a little. Like I suggested in my response to John's post. A PRO/AM Team Format. High Stakes Big Money PRO team side and a low cost AM team side. Same date, same lake. Other wise the Major Leaguer's will just also fish the Minor League events. Besides we don't need any more events or groups to compete for dates on the calendar. We just need to do it better.

What about you Rick, got any bright ideas?

[Ron T.]

Ill tell ya what I would like to see. Way off the beaten path but give this some thought .This would definatly not draw teams away from existing regions and and ensure FUTURE growth to our bass fishing tournaments .
How many of you have a son , doughter , niece , nephew or neighbor that begs you to take them fishing or even fish a tournament but can not becouse we think we need a partner who is capable of putting a money fish in the boat in hopes of recovering an entry fee .I would like to see a region that is formated for the little people .Kind of like little league baseball .Small entrys , each junior with one adult . Adult can not fish but can help assist in prepping baits and running big and trolling moter as well as coaching .Junior must make the cast , set the hook and bring fish within net range without assistance .
Paybacks can be cash , products or whatever .I would think sponcerships would be knocking the doors down to be involved .You want to see larger turnouts in the future ? This may seem like a long term investment but believe me it will pay back sooner than you think .

[Rick G]

Roberts Trail could be called "Double Teams". 2 separate groups fishing 1 event. Once you join the Pro side you are locked in that division for the year. Nobody with over 3K in Team or Pro earnings that year can fish the lower Division. Larger entry for the Pro side, much shaller for the AAA side. Same Championship, separate Grand Prize. Sound like it would work. What YOUR opinion. Rick G.

[some guy]

sounds like it would work..you can never make everyone happy but you can atleast try to appease the masses. That sounds like both anglers could be content with this. 3k is a good cap for local events.
The only problem i could see foresee would be if a team that started on the AAA side that had no pro experience puts in there homework and dominates a few tournaments there will be a push for that team to make the pro jump. You would have to consider some type of stipulation for this. Maybe if we set a cap for AAA winnings..once they hit a certain cap they have to make the jump.

[Schneider Fishing]

I think if you have a AAA team winning that much they will either hit the $ cap or will want to make the jump for the bigger money anyways.

It would be cool if on ocassion the AAA side weighed in better than the pro side. Just for some ego and bragging rights. LOL

[some guy]

big time.

[Rick G]

Once even the AAA guys get to 3K in winnings they must move up to the Pro side, even if it is the middle of the season. Gotta keep it fair at all times for everybody, thats the whole point of this trail. Rick G.

[some guy]

for sure...a cap will be necessary, otherwise you will have a team just plugging them on the am side..I personally think this format would work great..and it gives the AAA side realization that "pros" are'nt immortal. A few big AAA weights and it could be a wake up call for a lot of people.

[Rick G]

Somebody need to jump on this deal. Still alive out there Bill P.? Ron C's trail could use a shot in the arm and he has the staff and vision to pull this off. Won Bass is the logical choice for this format because they have the Promotion's [WO News] to get it going. If anyone is worried about the Pro entry getting to high, just leave it the same and add more options for the Pro's. Lower the Am's basic entry to $75.00 plus 1 option. $100.00 total. Rons and Bill's trails would be back up to 80 plus boats in no time. Rick G.

[mike goodwin]

Is it 3:30 yet, YANKEES POWER

You guys got my head spinning like a top

Leave it like it is and jump in with both feet or bail out

THE PACK IS BACK....................MG

[some guy]

the yankees? who are they?

[mike goodwin]

26 WORLD CHAMPIONS THATS WHO THEY ARE

ANGLES {WHATEVER}.....MG

[some guy]

lol oh those yankees....blah...Sabathia is going to shut you guys down.

[mike goodwin]

CC is tough as nails, has faced BOMBERS 3 times in the past never beaten them, hopfully todays outcome is the same.

If they do get by BOMBERS they will be tuff to beat though...MG

[some guy]

Becket looks real tough...along with the rest of the line up. Every playoff opener we have lost..even when we one the series we lost out opener...wait that was against the Yankees.

[EP]

I really enjoy this board when it has good disscusion like this one.
Good thread Rick Semi and Pro in the same tourney is a good idea I would support a region like this!

My question to this is: Is there anybody on this board that has not fished teams, that would consider fishing this format

[CN]

YES

[Rick G]

EP, you need to but the Heat on Bill and his Momma about this trail. I'M with you, it would get real popular real fast and is FAIR for all. Growth is what we need. Rick G.