WOW! Half the field blanked...Havasu AC!

[NaCl]

Just looked at the results from the AC team event at Havasu last weekend that Dobys/Strader won. There were 44 teams and more than HALF blanked! It took less than 5 pounds to get a check! I can't wait to see the results today for Day 1 of the FLW/National Guard Series.

http://www.usanglerschoice.net/2007resu ... value=2083

After seeing the results of this team tourny last weekend, Gary and Phil have to be considered favorites in the FLW event. It might be that they have an advantage by NOT being locals, in that, they are looking at the lake with open minds.

.....NaCl

[JT-Madera]

I think you have something right there...A friend of mine that lives close to Havasu said he was struggling bad, even though he felt that he would have an advantage over out of towners.....then just before the cutoff he was wiping his boat down at the launch ramp when two guys with Oregon license plates pulled up next to him and told him how much the fishing resembled fishing the Columbia River

They told him what baits and how they were fishing them..the next day he went out and caught a good limit...I sure hope the bite holds for him...guess we will find out at 3pm...

JT

[kopper_bass]

Hey JT,
That sounds like a violation of the FLW rules, by receiving help and knowledge from someone during the official practice period?

I wouldn't say much more about your friend

Cheers,

kopper_bass

[gt5bass]

then just before the cutoff he was wiping his boat down at the launch ramp when two guys with Oregon license plates pulled up next to him and told him how much the fishing resembled fishing the Columbia River

Kopper,

No violation of the rules, as the information was "given" to him (not solicited) in a public location (launch ramp) and before the cutoff.

[kopper_bass]

Gator,
I know this rule is one that is alays "interpreted" and each angler has their own view on it, but to me, this is one of those simple and easily understood rules yet everyone bends it to their liking.

The rule states as follows:
"During the off-limits period, practice, and competition days, contestants may not solicit and/or receive fishing information from any noncompetitor other than publicly available information."

Off-limits & Practice:
Tournament waters will go off-limits to all contestants 12 days prior to the first practice day in all qualifying events. Tournament waters will reopen for practice four days (Saturday through Tuesday) prior to the first day of competition.

So, 1st getting any information from 2 weeks ago, up until the last day of comepition is suspicious. there is no "cutoff" time now. that was 2 weeks ago before the off-limits started. Receiving information this Saturday is on the 1st day of practice period, so its well within the "no info" period.

Next, in my common sense judgement, getting information from other fisherman in the parking lot is a violation. This info is also called "docktalk" and is not considered "publically available". Had they said all that information up on stage, to everyone who attended that tourney weigh-in, or if it was posted ont he internet as part of the story on the tourney, then and only then would i say its "public information". Any discussions in the parking lot between fisherman is illegal.

I've had so many pros and ams stop people immediately when someone starts to tell them something saying" stop, i cant receive any information from you as i am in a tournament". Simple.

What do you think?

Kopper_Bass

[gt5bass]

Kopper,

It's Gary not Gator (Gator is much prettier)

JT's post stated "before the cutoff" which implies before the off-limits period started. You were allowed any info you could get your hands on a that point.

As for somebody coming up to you at the ramp after the off-limts and telling you what they were doing, I asked Chris Jones about this when the rules were published last year (and I was thinking of fishing the NG) and he said you would only be disqualified if you were asking people for info. Since you can't stop people from telling you, you can only ask them not to.

Under your interpretation, if you ask them not to tell you and they still do, you would be disqualified. Carrying that thought a step further, what would stop somebody from having someone go around and tell someone what they are doing jsut to get them disqualified? It is amazing what people will do with big money on the line.

[kopper_bass]

Gary,
sorry, just got too quick with typing in Gator!

i hear ya, its truly a tough call on what is expected if someone willingly gives you info. it wouldn't surprise me to have someone go around trying to DQ everyone - people are ruthless.

Great input that you've actually asked and discussed this with Chris. Truly, i think you're right that someone shouldnt be DQ'ed if they are openly given info from a non-competitor and i believe Chris wouldnt hold that against competitors.

Ahhh.......... now i re-read JTs post and realize i mistakenly thought that his friend got that info during the saturday tourney, but thats not what he said, so.......... my bad.

Thanks for the great conversation on this topic.

Catch-a-fish,

Kopper_Bass

[gt5bass]

No worries Kopper!

Good to see someone else take the rules seriously too. I had a buddy call Sunday night to ask what I knew about what was going on at Havasu. I had to tell him don't ask again or anybody else not in the tourney, if I tell you you will be DQ'D. He said ooops...forgot the rules were different for the NG than the Stren.

[NaCl]

Juris Doctorate (JD) dipomas from the prestigious Sault University, Department of Jailhouse Lawyers will be awarded at the next Nutcase Classic. Until then, you both have my permission to play lawyer and interpret contracts any time you wish. Be sure to add the "JD" designation to your tourny shirts. And, if I ever hear of any angers who need a good dock-side attorney, I'll be sure to send em your way! LOL!

.....NaCl
It's a sad day in fishing when the rules become more important than the limit!

[gt5bass]

It is a sadder day fishing a tournament when you have the largest limit of the day and found out you overlooked a rule and lose the whole limit

Hub Spinner, JD - Saulty State University

[Calistar]

Gary wrote:

It's Gary not Gator (Gator is much prettier)

I disagree...I think you both are equally "beauty-challenged".

[gt5bass]

Hey Greggy boy,

don't look in the mirror...HAR!!

and at least I have a BASS in my AVATAR not a bunch of slimers perhaps I should change it to the one at Clear Lake I tried to get you to catch

[kopper_bass]

NaCL.
just what i need, 1 more distraction to keep me from fishing - doh!
Thanks for the diplomas - do they come framed? ha!
thats just funny!

Koper_Bass

[JT-Madera]

Just for your info...both guys from Oregon are in the tournament...and it was before the off limits and before the :::cutoff::of receiving info...this guy is a tournament director...and knows the rules..

This jumping to negative conclusions is why a lot of people no longer post on this site...

JT

[kopper_bass]

Hey JT,
thanks for the reply.
I honestly didnt intend to imply any negative attitutude towards you or your buddies (i'm sure they're resptecable guys). i was just having an open discussion about the delicate "interpretations" of rules, and using your post as a discussion point. Open discussion is healthy and shouldn't be considered negative.

As i realized and posted, i mis-read your original post, which led me to think the info was being given out last Saturday during the AC tourney. That was my mistake. Sorry for my confusion.But again, just because we discuss it, please dont think it was meant to be negative, its not, just a discussion.

Thanks again,

Kopper_Bass

[gt5bass]

Just for your info...both guys from Oregon are in the tournament...and it was before the off limits and before the :::cutoff::of receiving info...this guy is a tournament director...and knows the rules..

That was what I was defending...DOH!!

[BLAZER 210]

well both of the rule breakers from oregon blanked today i sure hope they fish the columbia river better than havasu LOL!!!

[JT-Madera]

Blazer;

Sorry dude but you're just crude....why do you mark guys as rule breakers when it is obvious that you can't read or understand the rules..stop being so negitive...

JT

[gt5bass]

well both of the rule breakers from oregon blanked today i sure hope they fish the columbia river better than havasu LOL!!!

Dude,

That was just uncalled for!! Can you say LIBEL?

In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions provide legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to punish various kinds of defamation.

The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.

"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc and the like, then it is considered libel.

[mark poulson]

Gary,
If I'd have known you were such a stickler for the rules, I'd have never taken that bribe from you at Castaic.
Mark Poulson, AC Castaic Weighmaster AKA " The Thumb"

[gt5bass]

Yeah,

I always bribe the weighmaster to finish next to last

[mark poulson]

Size does matter.