SO WHAT MAKES YOU A PRO ?

[ONTHETHING !!!]

In the past 7 yrs I have fished 3 WON pro ams with mixed feelings.For the most a postive experiance. But Iwalked away with questions about what makes him a "pro" . Out of the 6 draws I still see 4 of there names on the circuts, but of the 4 only 1 is winning or placeing top 15 on a regular basis. The others are middle to lower consitently. They go out pay there entrys and things stay the same. My point is not that you have to win to be a "pro" ,but are you a pro just because you step up and pay? There are fisherman who fish waters on weekly basis who catch fish,know there way around the body of water and put fish in the boat consistently. But if they were to enter as a "pro" and they ended up my draw I would feel that I didnt get a "PRO".My thoughts because he doesnt do it for a living , has no intentions of doing it for a living . So does the title " pro " apply because of ability or simple the amount you pay? ON THE THING!!!!!

[scott h]

I would say there is a few things that define a true pro. 1) confidence in his or her fishing ability. 2) legitamate time to pre-fish. 3) an all around sportsman meaning honest and professional attitude on and off the water. Im sure there are more I have left out, those three were first to pop up when I read the question.

[Kelly Jeffers]

You forgot about the cool things we wear, the cool boats, and the hot chicks

[Ricky-S]

According to the PAA (Pro Anglers Association) a Pro is someone who earn 3/4 of their income from the fishing industry.

Under the PAA's definition, there are very FEW Pros out West. Are you asking what makes someone a Pro or a Pro angler? These are two very different questions.

In terms of fishing, the pro is the person who pays more money and provides use of his/her boat. This person may or may not have more money, experience, equipment, etc than the person fishing in the back of the boat.

This has to be the most subjective conversation.

Rome wasn't buit in a day and everybody had to start somewhere.

[Lance]

A voice of reason, thanks Ricky

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

Ricky, you have a great point or should I say points..Perhaps the AMs are expecting too much of their "PROs"..I know there are a good many moving up to the front of the boat for the various tournaments in the west this year..In most ways this is a good thing..But if those moving up do not dedicate themselves and the time to proving their worth they are not doing anyone a favor with the possible exception of those running the tournament..

I have fished with some of the good sticks here in the west, be it just at Rallies or what ever..Everyone I have fished with so far has had one thing in common, they all love to fish..They love the competition, but don't live or die by it..They are all human, they have good days and bad days..But they still enjoy getting out and sharing what they know..To me that makes them PROs..

mac

[nipples]

A "pro" in a tournament out here is mainly the higher stakes level of a two level tournament. They may not be pros, but they are fishing at the "pro level" and are possibly fishing against a few Pros.

A real pro is a bass fisherman with a small business license, who pays small business taxes and has sponsors, 1099s to file, and every bit of tackle, hotel costs, gas, vehicle or boat expense as a tax write off. As a small business they also have to turn a profit within the first three years in order to stay a business. This is a person who fishes for a living, someone like Dobyns for example. He is a pro. Ish Monroe is a pro. Skeet Reese, etc.

If you pay for a tournament shirt, you are not a pro.

If you pay for lures, lines, rods, reels, etc. you are not a pro

If you get paid to do seminars and push a companies product, you might be a pro or on your way to becoming a pro.

If you have a regular job, or are self-employed at something other than professional fishing, you are not a pro.

I saw an interview with Jimmy Houston and I'm not sure which recent year it was, but he said he was on the road for something like 312 days of that year fishing or doing seminars and shows. It's things like that that make me rethink my desire to go Pro. I love my west coast life, friends and family. And much like Jimmy Reese, I just couldn't bring myself to neglect all that to chase a dream of a fishing career, regardless of how good I might get. And I can't blame any of the guys out here that don't chase that dream.

But all that aside, a ton of these guys that fish the pro level are really really good and are happy to share info and make new friends and fish competitively. Most of these guys that fish the pro side of the Stren or the National Guard are extremely gifted fishermen and some of them are pros. But from what I hear, you don't want to be in the back seat of some of these pros because you will never get close to a fish. I heard a guy say that Dobyns was a "fish vacuum" and he will simply catch any fish that gets close to the boat from any direction. And the back seater better be happy watching the show, because that’s all their money buys them. I saw one TV show from a tournament on Clearlake where the pro kept saying, "get the net, get the net, get the net" and the guy kept bringing in crappie. I welcome the chance to make friends and fish a back seat to a pro or boat owner, but that "get the net" bozo would have been swimming back to the weigh-in if he was doing that "get the net" to me.

[Hollywood]

Do you think Ish turned a profit in his first 3 years fishing full time?

Ish is a great guy and a good friend but lets use his stats for say. 14 years pro fishing, 547K in those 14 years. That means he has made 41K each year on average. Do you think there was profit there? Maybe the last year where he won two events and his career is finally taking off!

Now lets use Dion Hibdon ( I think it is fair to say he is a pro angler is it not)

He has fished professionally for 22 years. He has just a little over 1 Million in earnings that comes down to a little over 45K per year in prize money. Do you think he turned a profit in the first 3 or 5 years?

The list could go on but I think your idea of what a pro really is is far off.

Kevin Johnson

[Dewayne]

If you want to fish with the Pros do not enter AAA events. FLW Tour and BASS Tour will have a high percentage of Pro fishermen. If you want to fish with true Pro fishermen you will have to step up to the big leagues. Most of us that fish WON, AC, Stren, and even the NG Series are regional AAA fishermen. We work for a living and pursure fishing to the best of our ability. We are boaters and not Pros. Well, unless we enter as a co-angler then we are quickly labeled as cherry picking pro bastards.

We could restrict these events to just those who make a living from fishing being qualified as pros, but you would probably not be able to get into an event as there would be 400 co-anglers trying for 20 spots.

[Marc]

I'm not sure I would agree with the PAA on the definition of a pro.

So if a guy makes and pays taxes on $60,000 per year in the fishing industry is he a pro? One would think so as that is more than most "pros" on tour make now.

What if the same guy also made $100,000 in another business during the same year?

What about income from investments and retirement that exceeds fishing income?

No matter what your definition, there will be someone ready to disagree.

[DanO]

Most of us are boaters, we enjoy the competition and sure we want to do well, but have a hard time considering ourselves pro's.

I am professional person, I am a Property Manager for a large firm, I am a guy who also does some side work in the fishing business, and enjoys fishing a tournament.

This year I have decided to try my hand at fishing the "Pro" side of Angler's Choice; don't consider myself a pro, as Dewayne said, a boater is best. Whatever Angler's Choice chooses as a name for their anglers is their marketing decision.

That is unless I consider the definition of a pro that Ray Scott said for years "A man with a week off of work and enough money for entry fees..." That's what our sport's godfather says, so I guess we are pro's; Now professionals, we'll have to wait and see.

DanO

[nipples]

Tournaments winnings are not the big money makers for the Pro's. While the tournament winnings are nice and great incintives as well as proof of skill. Most pro's make more money from sponsors, shows, endorsements, etc. You can bet good money that KVD is making a decent paycheck from Quantum. He is also getting paid for videos, seminars, PR events, etc. When you look at a pro's winnings you are only seeing one slice of a very large pie. If a pro only made money off of tournament winnings they could all just about qualify for food stamps.

Think big picture, think business, think multiple sources of income, lots of little tax deductable expenses for travel and all expenses, think someone who make their living fishing and it good enough to make that their sole income for years and years, think pro.

If you don't put professional fisherman as your occupation when filing out an app for a home loan, then you aint a pro.

[Hollywood]

Nipples,

Do you think these "pros" you are refering too made a living from the sponsorhip and endorsement money you are talking about in there first "three" years as you stated? I doubt it.

And yes, I know about tax's and loans stating pro angler on it. I have done it in the past.

It takes a little while for these guys to get where they are. You are correct sponsorship foots most of the bills. I know that first hand. How do you think I am able to afford to fish here in Japan?

Am I a pro to your standards? Maybe I will have to check my Japan tax statement after I file.

[Phil]

We believe that there are alot of us out there that are, Tackle shop owners, Bass organization owners, Tackle manufactures and so on, and that we all fish as a pro. We do it mainly because it is our business and it is how we make our business successful. Can we honestly compete. Well we can get lucky, most of us can not spend the alloted time on the water, but we can fish and generally catch our share, but we can not spend the time on the water that it takes to make a Monroe,a Dobyns,a Reese and so on; but if we did not fish as a pro, the ones on top would not win near as much because they would not have our entry. So we contribute or as our tax man calls it advertise/sponsor, the money that is there for you to win, most of come with the good attitude, and teach some and learn some. Most of all we pay the way because it is our business, our life.
just our .02
JIGS

[BOGOSIAN]

I will tell for me when I fished my first 2 for 1 draw tournament up at Clear lake that the person I drew was anything but a pro, alot of these fisherman pay to play and the label gets put on them. I think thats okay but, if your an AM and you get stuck with these guys that don't prepair for the event you are going to have along day. The upside is when you draw a great angler like I did and learn to look outside the box, its all worth it. If you are going to play with these guys you better sit in the back seat for a couple of years and take notes on what to do and what not to do. There are many reasons why consistant anglers are just that consistant. I hope you have a great fishing season.

[Hardshell]

Does this mean I should withdraw my entry as a co-angler for the Delta NG?

Dewayne, I hope I draw you, I'll know all your secrets then!

Hardshell-Jailer

[scott h]

Hey Ricky maybe I mis- lead you with my definition of what I thought would classify someone as a pro. Those are just a few standards I try to abide by as I fish on the "pro" side. Hope I am not Killing you as I enjoy the competition. If you see the white and blue triton with W.T. COOK CONSTRUCTION on the side at the delta N.G. say hi, I am always up to make new friends! I know of you but never really met you. good luck at the delta bud! Sack em up!!!

[Ricky-S]

Yeah, I have seen that boat around. My message wasn't in responce to your writing.

I run a black and white Ranger Z 20.

Say hi.

[chf8500]

Along the same lines, do you think the non boater steped up to the front of the boat and started paying the Pro fees because, if one looks at the ratio of entry vs return the Am. is way out of wack. As`a pro I pay 500 or more to maybe win 10 to 40k, as an Am. I pay 250 and low and behold I might get 2500 if I am lucky, if the Am. side were to equal out we might see some of the front seat guys back on the rear deck where the fishing is still fun, and the pressure is not as intense. As the old saying, goes been there done that, and you can't beat time on the water, no matter how lucky you are on any given day.

[g-man]

Lets say you fish 100% future pro for an example, and there rules say if you win over 3000 dollars in a year you can't fish it anymore. So you would have to move up to the teams. What would you be considered then?

I mean if you work you way through the ranks so that you have no choice but to fish the teams would you be considered pro.

[Dewayne]

G-Man,
There are many levels to this game not just pro and am. That is an over simplification. You fish the level you feel fits you and don't worry what others think. If you can not make some money, you will not be at it long and need to drop back a level.

There are novice AMs, AMs, Professional Co-anglers, Novice Boaters, Boaters, Regional pros, Tour Pros, Team anglers........

Personally. I am just a dude with a great job that likes to fish.

CHF8500,
We already have professional co-anglers. People like Haraguchi, Wilson, etc. have figured out that the ROI is better from the back seat. Bertalero dropped back last year to the back of the boat. I myself have even done it a time or two.