Why Fish some pro-ams

[Vince Borges]

I was just curious, Why would you fish WON Bass for a $700.00 entry fee only to win $20,000.00. Or for that matter the cost of the Stren series, if you dont run a Ranger you only win $25,000.00. I think Mark and Anglers Choice has to be about the best thing going. For a $450.00 entry( options included) your fishing for a $35,000.00 boat and some cash. just curius as i was thinking of fishing the Delta and was looking at the different options.

Vince

[Guest]

Hey Vince - thanks for that post! I wonder the same thing myself! Plus you get great NATIONAL recognition with Bass West USA as well.

[JRS]

Vince, I disagree. I think your odds are better with Stren. Just look at the payback for the top ten. Stren wins hands down. Even if your not a Ranger owner. Say you win the boat at a/c, what do you actually sell it for? then minus the taxes you got to pay come tax time. So lets call first place pretty much a wash. 2nd thru 10th Stren wins... At a/c you can at least make your entry fee back if you finish 19th or better....Stren, 40th or better. again Stren wins... The cost to enter goes to a/c, but only by $50 a day. Then take into account what is offered at the end of the year for those that qualify...Again Stren wins...Just remember that all this comes from someone who just took three days to catch "1" bass at Mead. Talk to you later, John

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

The reason that I am fishing The Stren tournaments is two fold. First of all for several years I have been told the virtues of the tournaments like Stren over our western style shared weight tournaments so this year I am trying them. So Far after one Stren Tournament I much prefer the shared weight concept. I like the team for a day even though I had a great time at the Shasta Stren tournament. And I was treated with great respect and consideration by the 3 pros that I fished with. I truly think that the tournament directors of all of the California Orgs should sit in on the draw, the blast off and the weighin of an FLW tournament. They really have it together
The second reason that I am fishing both is because I wanted to fish more than 3 tournaments this year, and AC only has 3 Pro/Ams.

[nipples]

I feel that choosing to fish a tournament as an AM based on how much you can win is a setup for dissapointment.

You are faced with luck of the draw for so much of it. Draw a Pro that doesn't take care of his boat and has problems on the water and your day is shot. And god forbid the that same jerk backseats you for the little part of the day that you do get to fish (cough, cough, ahhhemmm, Niel Campbell...cough cough).

Or you draw some kid (who should not be fishing the Pro side) the next day and the kid doesn't know how to drive a boat in heavy chop. So you spend the day fishing 200 yards from the launch.

On day three you draw an awesome pro, but the bite is so horrible that your Pro can only manage to boat a single clone.

That is exactly what happened to a friend of mine.

It doesn't matter how good you might be, when it comes down to the draw, that is where your fate lies. Being good helps a lot, but sometimes it just doesn't matter.

I choose my tournaments based on water, and if I can get the time off work to fish it. All of the circuits in our area have a several pros that you will school the best of us. If I get lucky and get behind a pro that is good enough to locate some really good fish, but not so good that he catches all of them before I can get a few, then I have a shot as some money. If not I can focus on learning while enjoying the sport I love.

Good Fishing,

-Paul-

[Gary Dobyns]

I have repeatedly told all tournament organizations and directors that they should come to an FLW event and pay attention to how they do the draws, blast-offs, and weigh-ins. FLW does a far superior job and they could learn a few things. The changes would be welcomed from all of their anglers. Why not improve your events? Also, FLW does a much better job of promoting their sponsors. This could help a lot with both existing sponsors and new ones down the road.

[Hollywood]

[quote="Gary Dobyns"] Also, FLW does a much better job of promoting their sponsors. quote]

I don't think there is another tourney org that promotes there sponsors and anglers better from my point of view. How many anglers has flw put in teams with wrapped boats, trucks and money contracts??

[Fishin' Dave]

Question on that, They do a great job of promoting THEIR sponsors, but to the guy who has a sponsor that is not theirs who has supported them but will recieve no exposure on the last day kinda sucks. I understand the philosophy, but it makes for a monopoly.

As a sponsor of 100% Mother Lode, Bob does a great job recognizing all his sponsors. I really appreciate that.

I have seen others like Stockton Bass promoting their sponsors as well.

[JRS]

Dave, I think both the pros and "their" sponsors know how much exposure they're getting making it to the last day in the long run. Even if they are not allowed to wear their sponsors name for one day. Sure they might miss some photo opts with their sponsors logos for that day,but carrying the title of being a Stren winner(or even a top 10 finisher) will create more opportunities thru-out the years. I think it might be worth it.

[Fishin' Dave]

True, good point.

[Kelly Jeffers]

If you have never meet chris, go to a FLW event have a look around and go meet him you'll never find anyone like him as for dealing with him he say's call him if you need anything and he means it he makes time for everyone not just the guys with the most gold stars(patches) and he puts on a good show even on a bunk lake like I wont say anynames MEAD!!!! and his staff are 2nd to none go check it out then choose, After all it's the FLW

[Guest]

I have met Chris and heard about him from anglers. He is the creme of the crop when it comes to the Pro-Am tournament directors!

On another note, Mendez and I are both fishing the FLW Series on the Delta ---- so we will be there to learn a few things and hopefully catch some fish and maybe even a check while we are at it.

[gcopple]

i am fishing the stren and always will. i would have fish anglers choice if they had a southern pro/am this year but they didn't so i fished won bass. maybe next year is anglers choice isn't going to have a north and south like in the past they can have a 4 tourney season and have it set up something like the stren with at least one tourney down south. thats all it would take for me to fish them.

george

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I fished a minimum of about 16 tournaments a year for 6 years as a back seater.
Yes I have had some bad draws, but the good times and the good draws far outshine the bad.
I have fished with some of the biggest named bass pros in the united states. And I have fished with some guys whose name I had never heard before who were great guys and great fishermen. I have fished wit great fishermen when the were having a bad day and with guys who didnt seem to know didely squat when they had the best days of their lives. I have fished with great fishermen whose pattern just wasnt producing who ask my advice and then took it and we caught fish. Some others dont want your advice and dont want you giving it.
Tournament fishing is like shooting hoops. Sometimes you sink the ball and sometimes you dont. But the more you throw it the more often you will sink it

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

*NM*

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I will see you there, it would be great to draw either one of you.
Your Legend or Mine?????
Size does count so we better stick with mine

[Guest]

I hope you don't draw me for your sake!

There are a lot better draws on the river than me... but, if you do draw me I am sure we'd have a great time!

If you want to pre-fish with me let me know... I wouldn't mind a pre-fish partner for Monday and/or Tuesday!

See you there!

[Ricky-S]

With that said, I love to fish AC and WON events but they both could learn from fishing a FLW event.

[hydrate2o]

Hey Jim, Took your advice along with others, just signed up for Colombia River and Clear Lake. Looking forward to it very much. Fishing Pro Team with Ron Diacon foothills all year also. Had a great time with Murphy and look forward to hitting Berryessa, Comanche and Clear Lake with him soon. Maybe one day we can go out , If you will fiah out of a Ranger! I have yet to ride in a Legend.

[Hollywood]

Tom,

When does your practice start?

I hope you don't draw me for your sake!

There are a lot better draws on the river than me... but, if you do draw me I am sure we'd have a great time!

If you want to pre-fish with me let me know... I wouldn't mind a pre-fish partner for Monday and/or Tuesday!

See you there!

[Guest]

I think Gary is probably right about most of his comments (I'll know for sure in 3 weeks)

However, when it comes to promoting sponsors... FLW Promotes their sponsors.... not the angler's sponsors. For Gary it probably works out pretty well, Ranger/Evinrude and more..

But, for all the guys in Basscats, Skeeters, Tritons, Legends and more.. with Mercury's and other sponsors that don't give their money to FLW - it doesn't work out quite as well.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

The guys driving the Rangers deserve some kind of special treatment. After all they dont have the advantages of driving a LEGEND

[Fishin' Dave]

Jim,

Can you PLEASE respond once? I get too confused with your multipal posts.

See, now I can start a new parragraph in response to someone else...

Hollywood, go to work.

Jim, I know you want to join the gold plated 1000 post club, but we might have to give you the silver for all your multipal posts

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

You have twice as many posts as I have. How did you possibly manage that?

[Hollywood]

Dave- I am working, tax dollars at work. Im drikning my Seattles Best White Cholocate mocho coffee, surfing the web and waiting until it is 11am so I can go home!

[Guest]

I guess some extra air-time and press for their sponsor is the least they could do with all the back problems those Z20 boys are going to have when they are your age!

It was good to see a Champion shirt or two on the stage at the Stren Mead event.

Chris Jones is the man in my book - I have talked to him a bit and even run full page photos of him animated on stage in the magazine... Now with that said - I love the way he always gets in there "Ranger Pro Yada Yada Yada" or "Evinrude Pro Yada Yada Yada" however, it makes everyone else sound like they are just John Smith... either call them all out or don't call them out at all.

I don't cut the Ranger boats out of the pictures in our magazine do I? I certainly could... but, I believe in being as fair as I can... I guess FLW doesn't really care about being fair.

Feel free to bash me... but, I cover the FLW (Stren, Series and Tour) quite a bit in the magazine. I could easily put together the mag without any reference to these tours.

To even more solidify my fairness statement - I've even run a picture of Jared Lintner's Tackle Warehouse wrapped boat in the magazine and that is direct competition to the magazine and its parent company(s).

The way I see it, if the company and product is good enough, I don't have to worry about small plugs for the competition... there are plenty of angler's out there for all of us. I seriously doubt Ranger is hurting for new boat owners... but, they protect that airtime like they are worried about the competition. Well, on second thought, after 6 months in my Legend.. maybe they should be worried!


I just noticed I went over 1000 posts... Damn - I need to get a life! Hmmmm I might need to go fishing.. Pardee is calling my name!

[Fishin' Dave]

Jim,

I just have so much useful, wholesome, and on topic information to contribute

[Vince Borges]

But then again I have a Champion and have for the last 14 years. Befor that i wasnt to smart and ran ( or at least tried to ) a Ranger. The thing i dont get is if Genmar owns Ranger, Stratos and Champion than why does it only cater to ranger owners. And John, I dont know about you but in my math the entry is double that of Anglers Choice, Sure it pays back further, But if your like me, Im fishing for one place and one place only. Oh and by the way are you saying that you dont pay the taxes on the FLW $25,000.00. Now who has the better top spot pay. Maybe its just me but I like the Delta and Clear Lake, and Horsville better than Mead and Havacrap. Oh hell lets stop comparing and just go fishing.

Vince Borges

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

*NM*

[Guest]

National Guard

[Hollywood]

nm

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I dont know if you can legitimately fish practice with me or not, I can call FLW and ask if you would like me to. I have trued calling your 909 number but your mailbox is always full. My cell is 1-707 333 6241

Jim

[Guest]

Yeah sorry I am on the phone!

I am pretty sure I can only pre-fish with you if you are fishing the event.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

So what I will do instead is follow you around and be your cheer leader and take pictures of your breakdance moves, record you screaming, and do a way point on the GPS so when you forget where you were I can show you.
Good scheme HUH????
Hell we might even be able to get a national mag to use photos of you.
I was thinking of the FLW mag
Mabe we can get the Misty girls to wear grass skirts and I will play Hiwawian rap on my boom box while the the misty girls do the Owahoo boogie on my flippin deck
You will be famous even if we scare off all of the fish

HAR

[Hollywood]

Old man Jim,

Can I sit in the passenger seat! I promise to behave and make no nasty remarks in front of the misty's!

I will even address you as Sir Jim!

[Gator]

WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP

Lie Alert

Hollywood just said "I promise to behave"

That's like me saying "No, I will not be anywhere near the cooler of free beer after this event!"

[Hollywood]

lol, well i meant my language in front of the ladies, a sailors mouth can be nasty nasty at times but i was offering to keep that lingo quiet in an effort not to offend the misty's! I never said anything about behaving and keeping my hands to myself or out of that free beer cooler!

[fishsmith]

Chris Jones hasnt called my name on stage yet ( 0 fish at Havasu )but the Delta is coming. No offense taken

Jon Smith

[Guest]

Hey Jon - My Bad - Should have went with John Doe!

I am sure you'll weigh some fish at the Delta...

[fishsmith]

It's all good just funin around. Damn I hope I catch a few at the Delta should be awsome! I'm usedto the name by now. Go to hotels when they ask for your name i just flip out the wallet with the drivers license & 4 or 5 other forms of ID to keep from getting the yea right looks LOL. Have a great day!

Jon

[Lance]

I've got mixed feelings on the Pro/Am shared weight format and because of what I wrote below is the reason why I wont be doing it next year. I am one of those guys that's fiercely competitive and I believe when an angler studies a lake, pre-fishes it and does everything right including catching fish on turney day, he should be rewarded, I'm sure most people don't have any problem with that. Where I have the issue is as AAA angler you will be competing against Pro's even though you don't have control of the boat. I'll explain using examples of Boat A and Boat B.

Boat A has a good Pro with pre-fishing experience paired with a poor AAA that has nothing but Spinning reels with 6 pound test.
Boat B has a Pro that you had to call because he stuck in traffic 30 miles outside of town on Friday night and wasn't able to make it to the meeting, No pre-fish. Paired with a AAA that spent Thursday and Friday prefishing and has a pretty good idea of what's going on.

As a good and prepared AAA you end up competing against the luck of another AAA that isn't as well prepared but had a really good draw. So as a result, the good AAA is competing against the Pro of the very lucky AAA. That is why I might be looking into Stren or something that doesn't have a shared weight. I know its not the answer to everything but I believes it levels the feild a little better. It would make me feel better knowing that I'm competing against others that are in the same situation as I am.

[JGB]

Lance, I entered my first pro am as a pro during the last AC event on Oroville. After fishing as an am for several years, AC, Stren, and Bassmaster I finally decided to move to the front of the boat. I, like a lot of anglers went into my first event as a co angler with very high expectations of my boater. I learned quickly that it's all in the draw and that no matter who you draw, good or bad there is always something to learn from them.
The Bassmaster event on Lake Amistad for example, I was expecting fish to be flying into the boat but quickly realized that these guys were fishing for 100 thousand dollars and if I was going to do any good I had to be prepared for anything. That event wasn't shared weight so I was constantly shuffling rods and lost several key bites/fish because I was making casts that I wouldn't normally make. I went into the event expecting to see perfection from my boaters and quickly realized that they were no different than you or I. The one thing that I did take away from my experience fishing with those guys is how cool they stayed under pressure. I was truly amazed at how their calm approach rewarded them with what I considered lucky catches at the time.
Seperate Weight:
I dislike this format due to the fact that some co anglers can be given an edge by their pro, an example of this is during spawning tournaments. Some pro's have been kind enough to set co's up on fish if their co is in contention. Some Pro's also have a tendancy to ignore the angler in the back of the boat and really don't want to see them catching fish that they need themselves. From a co anglers perspective I would much rather fish as a team.
Shared Weight:
I like this format as I have had great experiences both as an am and as a pro fishing the shared weight format. I believe the opportunity for both the pro and the co angler to learn is greater when the weights are shared. From a pro's perspective I absolutely loved having a co angler who approached my water a little differently that I had in pre fish. I also was as excited for them as for me when a nice keeper was boated. From the co anglers perspective as much as I hated it when another co angler who couldn't even tie his or her own knots got two pro's who were ON fish, I throughoughly enjoyed working as a team good or bad.
As for why I chose to fish a pro am? I chose to fish the past pro am because for someone like me who has fished at a variety of different levels, I had yet to fish as a Pro. As a co angler, I chose to fish those events because I hoped to learn from the pro's and at the same time wasn't sure if I was ready to move up to the front of the boat. AC also decided to lower their entry fee this season, making the decision to fish as a Pro a whole lot easier on my family.

Best of Luck,

J Ballardo

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I dont know haow many ahared weight Pro/Ams you have fished but my best guess is that I have fished betweenm 90 and 100. The way I see it is that the Pro and the Am are a team for a day. I have also fished a ton of team tournaments where for some reason or another I had to fish by myself because my partner couldnt make it, That has happened with 4 different partners. That has never happened to me when fishing as an Am or a pro in the shared weight Pro/Ams. I have fished with many of the biggest named Fishermen in the world and against some of the bigest named fishermen in the world. I am fishing the FLW Stren series and the AC Pro/Ams this year from the back seat.
I want to tell you that I dearly loved being Gary Dobbins, Mike Renolds, Dave Rush, Steve Sapp, Dee Thomas, Carol Martins, Byron Velvicks (sp) Leroy Berteleros, and many other great fisherman whose names are too many to mention, as partner for a day. All of them treated me like a valued friend and still do. And they all taught me every thing they knew about how to catch fish that day on that body of water under the conditions at the time.
I also want to state that fishing the FLW Stren series at Shasta as an Am was also a great experience that I heartily reccommend to all of you, I was treated with great respect and friendship by the three pros that I fished with. They all treated me the same as if it were a shared weight tournament. Leroy Bertelerro gave me a luvky Craft jerk bait to throw, and one of them loaned me drop shot rod when I broke mine off so that I wouldnt have to waste time retieing.

[Lance]

JGB and Jim,

Dont get me wrong, I've had some great times with my Pro's. Even when were not on fish things seem to work out. Example, at Havasu this year I drew a guy named Ken. This was Kens first year as a Pro, I believe it was his first turny of the year. Ken was very cool in many ways, while we couldn't buy a bite if we had all the money in the world he kept the same disposition all day, he was cool, calm and collected. Ken felt bad because his area's didn't produce like he had planed, but neither did a bunch of other anglers area's. When Ken's ran out of area's he asked me "what should we do". Based off of my pre-fish pattern WE looked for area's that were similar and as a result we started to catch some fish. I learned a lot from Ken that day, not is terms of fishing technique but is professionalism, his example of being a Pro is something that I would like to model myself after.

Guys like Mike Hawkins (Havasu) and Will Jefferies (Shasta) also displayed incredible professionalism even to the point of insisting I take the front of the boat because I had a shot at a check. Ken, Mike and Will stood out from the others because they possessed the ability to make me the AAA feel as though I've been fishing with them for years, the comport level was amazing.
But because I hear what some friends go thru and myself included when points are on the line it just takes one bad apple to end your year's hopes of winning the big prize, what ever that might be. So yes, I do enter to win money and to say that I'm in it just for a good time would be a lie.

[Gary Dobyns]

promoting their sponsors. I do have Ranger and Evinrude and they are the same as FLW. That is a given. Most of my sponsors are not the same as FLW, and that puts me in the same place as you on the last day. My comment was about promoting their sponsors. Because of "their" sponsors, they have more money to do things right. They pass some of this on to their fishermen. I'm not here to argue paybacks. If any of our pro-am circuits could land a big title sponsor (like Walmart or many more) they could afford to really step things up. Most of our circuits do not do a good job for their sponsors. I don't want to start pointing fingers. Several do stupid things like using a competing brand of boat for blast-offs and check-ins. The directors are furnished a boat deal and in cases a no-charge boat for this purpose. WHY????? A couple of our circuits have or had a great title sponsor for years. They have made no attempt to step things up. They simply pocket the money. FLW runs a great tournament with great people because they can afford it and spend the money. I am not shooting at our 2 day pro-am circuits. We need them badly. Many anglers simply can't afford to travel for the FLW events. Afford might not necessarily be money either. Vacation days or missed work days keep many anglers from following FLW. Sh** I'm typing a book like Nacl now. The problem is I do it with one finger and slowwwwwwwly.

[Guest]

Hey Gary fair enough on the FLW sponsors. However, I will have to disagree on what some of the other Pro-Ams do for their sponsors.

Legend, Basscat, Mercury, Motorguide and Lowrance get taken care of very well in Bass West and all for the sponsorships of the Angler's Choice circuits. I know the magazine seems more mom and pop around here because most everyone knows Mark and myself... however, we have Bass West readers all over the country that see Bass West as better than FLW and Bassmaster. I am not here to argue who's magazine is the best... in my opinion the are all great... However, I do think what we do for these companies in the magazine has got to be helping them in the industry!

Look at Legend - it's a household name in bass fishing on the west coast now. It's leaps and bounds ahead of where any other 3 year old boat company has been. This isn't all because of the sponsorship of Angler's Choice and Bass West - they truly have a great product but, all the exposure from Bass West certainly helps!

As far as the brand of boats for the launch boat and the check-in boat... some companies (and I assume we aren't the only one) choose to give away their discounted boats rather than to drive them theirselves and/or use them for event launching etc.. I know you and Mendez don't exactly see eye to eye but, one thing that is for sure... he could easily just take one of the discounted boats for himself instead of giving it away at one of the tournaments or the TOCs. I am sure the same goes for Won Bass and others. Some trails chose to drive the boats instead of give it away and that is their perrogative.

I also think both Bass West (Nationally) and Won bass (regionally) do a pretty good job of promoting their anglers. Sure not every angler gets a ton of press.... but, I have a long list of about 30 guys I have gotten in the magazine in the past 3 years and I have a list of another 30 that I'd like to get in the magazine very soon.... all western guys who deserve and need the press.

Do I like FLW - Absolutely - am I fishing it... Yep and can't wait, but I think the local trails are ALSO great opportunities for us anglers as well. Sure they can all use small changes here and there but, overall they are great opportunities for us to fish for boats... how else is someone going to catch your boat total if nobody is giving them away anymore. Jimmy was just telling me the other day that he's going to catch you sometime in the future! What's he need 30 more?

Lastly - I am sure each local tournament trail could be a lot better if they held back a little more money and used it for things to make the circuit better. Buy trailers, special tournament software, high end video equipment and satellite internet feeds for webcasts, special boats, bluetooth check in devices and more but, at least for Angler's Choice (and I assume most of the others) we feel that its better to put together a less costly event without some of the bells and whistles and pay back more.

Just my .02 --- and leave me a few fish on the Delta in a couple weeks! See you there!

[Gary Dobyns]

Tom, If you pay attention to how FLW runs their events you will learn a lot and AC can be made better for everyone. I do apologize for the fact that most of my comments were not directed at AC. Your circuit is much improved the last couple of years. Giving boats away to the winners is a big deal. Also, your numbers are up and truthfully I think they will get even better. Is there room for more improvement?? YES. There are only a couple of magazines that I will read. I do read some of BW and I read Inside Line. I think Bassmaster sucks, and I think FLW is a good magazine but totally lacks the west. Now, with Brian Sak writing for Bassmaster and FLW bring us big money events that is likly to change some. Both of those magazines are based in the southeast and take care of their regions the most. I find myself reading Yamamoto's Inside Line the most. NO, not because I have a colum there. It's not as glossey and pretty as BW, but it has more articles by fishermen that I enjoy reading, and it's not full of adds like most. I also believe promoting sponsors is a heck of a lot more than running adds. Keeping their product always in the veiwers eye and dropping the companies name at the right opportunities.

[Guest]

Hey Gary.
You are right.. The inside line is very good! I enjoy reading that one as well!
See you at the delta!

[Gary Dobyns]

worse than mine. I didn't think that was possible.

[kb]

Well I have to tell you that Leogrande guy is right on top of things. I caught a big one the other day prior to the cutoff on the Delta and bang he pulls up and takes photos of it. How he can be everywhere is beyond me but that is really service.

Thanks again Tom
kb