Some proceedures I would like to see at tournaments

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

Please feel free to comment on any of my suggestions and to add your own. I would very much like to keep this done in a gentlemanly and lady like manner without mentioning any particular tournament organizations, or individuals names. Lets not criticize anyone or any organization, just make suggestions that we think would be improvements.

1- I think that at the registration the fisher men should be given a number as they check in the first boater gets number one and the first nonboater gets a number one also these should be on different colored small pieces of paper. Perhaps Green for boaters and red for Nonboaters,Each fisher man should get two copies of his number. there should be two buckets with corresponding colors to the tickets. Each of the fisher men would place one of their papers in the proper colored bucket.
At the draw they would thouroughly mix up the slips of paper and then draw a number for the first boater and a number for the first backseater from their respective colored buckets. The first draw irrespective of the number drawn would be boat number one, continueing on for the remaining participants.
This actually should go faster than the current method being used .

This would eliminate the complaints that the draws have not always been honest

2- I think that weighins should be conducted on scales that are not only certified but should be required to have a readout of the weight positioned in a manner so that the audience and anyone interested can see the reading of the scale and not just the weighmaster.

3- The results of the tournaments should be posted here on this forum and the option money should be listed in the results showing which participants bought into the options and how much was paid back and to whom.

Im looking forward to hearing feed back from all of you and hope that something positive can come from this.

[Mike]

I'd like to see tournaments boat have numbers on them. Then you wouldnt have to ask "are you in a tournament"? every time someone comes up on you and if you see someone volilating the tournament rules you can turn in their boat #.

[Long Nguyen]

1- I think that at the registration the fisher men should be given a number as they check in the first boater gets number one and the first nonboater gets a number one also these should be on different colored small pieces of paper. Perhaps Green for boaters and red for Nonboaters,Each fisher man should get two copies of his number. there should be two buckets with corresponding colors to the tickets. Each of the fisher men would place one of their papers in the proper colored bucket.
At the draw they would thouroughly mix up the slips of paper and then draw a number for the first boater and a number for the first backseater from their respective colored buckets. The first draw irrespective of the number drawn would be boat number one, continueing on for the remaining participants.
This actually should go faster than the current method being used .

This would eliminate the complaints that the draws have not always been honest

Not quite Jim. Having the anglers paired up prior to the draw meeting helps keep the tournament organization create the necessary boat information like weigh slips, boat numbers, etc. When Alton and I were doing this, we printed boat numbers with the anglers names on them before the meeting began. Getting guys to walk up, draw names, read names aloud, find each other wouldn't really speed up the process in my opinion.

2- I think that weighins should be conducted on scales that are not only certified but should be required to have a readout of the weight positioned in a manner so that the audience and anyone interested can see the reading of the scale and not just the weighmaster.

Again, when Alton and I ran tournaments there was a gigantic read out screen that showed the weights to the audiance. They were displayed at the Snag Proof events, etc. I think this would be standard for large scale events. I don't think it would be required for team events as the anglers themselves often stand next to or near the scales to see the weights. Plus team events don't draw huge crowds.

3- The results of the tournaments should be posted here on this forum and the option money should be listed in the results showing which participants bought into the options and how much was paid back and to whom.

Why should results be posted on this forum? Wouldn't tournament organizations want to drive traffic to their own sites? That would help the organization with hits therefore ensuring their sponsors that anglers are seeing proper banners/signage, etc. Most results are posted here anyway, but it's not a requirement. Some organizations put a teaser on this site only to link them to the organization's site. I guess that's okay too.

I've always stated that option money should be accounted for. You'll recall a few AC proams in the past used to have a list of anglers that got into the options and was posted on the trailer for all to see. If organizations state that option pots are paid back 100%, then there shouldn't be an issue showing who got in them.

[Guest]

Good ideas Jim but a couple things come to mind.

I know this is a general discussion and not a AC discussion. From the orgs view here are some of my thoughts.

#1 your pairing idea is a good idea.. but, IMHO it would be a mess.. Trying to get guys paired up by name is one thing but, now trying to get them paired up by number - find each other and get everything moving would be a little bit of a mess. However, it might be worth a try. Many team tournaments are drawn this way for boat numbers

#2 Any angler can always view the weights on the scales. You have ever right to position yourself to see the scales. A big electonic board isn't always possible but, is nice when available. Anytime you want to see a weight you should just ask to look on. I have never seen or heard of a director asking someone not to look at the weights.

#3 As far as posting the options... I know Danny Peluso passes a sheet around to be seen at his weigh ins with all the options listed and who was in them... Its a great idea... and if the options were consistent I would make our automated posting program post them as well... however, some trails have 2 options and some have 5 options or anywhere in between. This creates problems on automating the results... and I am sure you all like the fast results we get up (in most cases) and that is because they are automated and the directors themselves can post their results in SECONDS!

On another note on #3 - Some guys don't like the options to be shown because they are embarrassed they didn't get in the options. Passing this around the event is one thing.. posting it for the world to see is another. They feel added pressure to get in the options if they are going to be posted. I for one agree with you... I'd love to see all options posted to the websites!

[RipnRog]

Mike I may be wrong but there used to be a tournament curcuit that used to give everyone flag that had to be displayed during the tournament. I dont remember who but it was a great idea.

[g-man]

I'd like to see tournaments boat have numbers on them. Then you wouldnt have to ask "are you in a tournament"? every time someone comes up on you and if you see someone volilating the tournament rules you can turn in their boat #.

This would be a great idea!!

I also think all option money should be displayed for all to see.

[sTony]

I got a fresh idea...

how about we just let the tournament guys run their tournaments the way they are going to run them and then if you decide that you don't like the way they're being run then fish with the org that runs things closest to what you're comfortable with.

If you ask a hundred guys how best to run a tournament you're likely to get a wide variety of answers.

sTony

[Guest]

Hey sTony - As usual you are probably right. But this is pretty constructive... Never know it may spark some ideas for the guys running tournaments.

I know the number thing has me thinking of new ideas

[supermat]

Mike,
I really like the idea of having boat numbers displayed on the tourney boats. That would really help in identification of individuals when there are questions of legitimacy. I remember a particular tourney in which my fish were in a zone that would be getting high traffic later in the day. I decided to drop anchor and pull the motor early to keep boats at a distance. During that tournament some boats stayed away, some fished right on through and there was no way to know who was in the tournament and didn't notice the anchor, who might have noticed and not cared, or who wasn't in the tourney at all.

[kopper_bass]

Stony - great advise.
how about if you don't like the discussion of this thread, you leave it alone and go read something else you do like?

Just razzin ya buddy ........ but honestly, thats the same mentality i think to your comments. i dont understand why you would ever suggest that members on this chatboard not do what its exactly meant to do - discuss ideas! your comment just seems to go against the pure nature of it.

Sure you're not reading too much into grumpy ol' Conlows (har! har!) post with a prejiduce to some past history? Hope not!

Fish On,

Kopper_Bass

[Terry Battisti]

Here in Idaho, if you're fishing a tournament, you must place a bright chartreuse neoprene band around your motor that says TOURNAMENT on it. The band is about 6 inches wide and on the back, it has a number on it. Any organization here (clubs, team T orgs and Draw orgs) must provide them to the field.

The band is also colored HOT Pink on the inside. This is used in the event the boat breaks down and acts as a form of distress signal. You see the pink band around the cowell, you pull over to help out.

It works here and you definitely know who is in or not in a tourney.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

they are problems with some not all. I will mention no names

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

this is like a suggestion box for the tournament orgs. They can act or not act as they please. Dou you feel that it is a harmfull post? if so I will delete it

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

Can you let us know where the get them?

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I did it to eliminate past predjudice. I have very few personal predjudices against any tournament orgs, except those who wont let me fish

[gt5bass]

Here in Idaho, if you're fishing a tournament, you must place a bright chartreuse neoprene band around your motor that says TOURNAMENT on it. The band is about 6 inches wide and on the back, it has a number on it. Any organization here (clubs, team T orgs and Draw orgs) must provide them to the field.

The band is also colored HOT Pink on the inside. This is used in the event the boat breaks down and acts as a form of distress signal. You see the pink band around the cowell, you pull over to help out.

It works here and you definitely know who is in or not in a tourney.

Terry,

That sounds like a great system. I think it would behove some of our CA organization to look into adopting something like it.

How ya been buddy? Haven't spoken to you in a while. I have been trying to fly under the radar this year whilst I get some things back in whack

[Gator]

Terry - I seem to remember seeing something like this on an old photo of Cooch in the BassMasters.

Yep - here's the pic - you can see it better on the boat behind Cooches!



I think this is an awesome idea, not only identifies tournament participants, but provides for some type of visible distress signal if needed.

[Phil]

A GREAT IDEA WE USED TO USE WAS WHEN YOU COME INTO WEIGH IN YOU TURNED IN YOUR BOAT NUMBER, THAT WAY THEY KNEW YOU MADE IT BACK AT THE CHECK IN BOAT, THEN YOU WOULD GET A WEIGH IN NUMBER SO YOU COULD WEIGH IN, IN ORDER AND NOT HAVE A BUNCH OF GUYS STANDING AT THE DOCK WITH A BUNCH OF BAGS OF STRESSED FISH ..

JIGS

[Terry Battisti]

Yep, those are them Gator! The ones that BASS used to use didn't have the inner hot pink coloring. I think that was something that the State of Idaho made mandatory.

Jim and Gary, it works very well. I'll try to get the number where we have them done. It's been a couple years since I've dealt with this stuff and the company isn't coming to me. I'll try to find out tonight.

Gary, what's up? Long time no talk. Hows the fishing been?

Gator, thanks for the pic of the bands but you could'a photo-shopped Cooch out of it for our looking pleasure.......LOL. Who loves ya Coochie-koo

[Mike]

Perfect! Tournament orgs??? You listening??

[BASSK9]

Account for the option money. A list of every dime received and paid out in option money. Why won't they do it? Tom your concern is weak! Why would anyone be embarrassed about not entering the options?
The fact that they will not post the option participants leads me to suspect skimming of option funds by directors. Accountability is shown in every other form of business transaction we make. Reciepts are given. In the options no reciepts and hocus pocus option paybacks. Directors are honest men but they won't prove it with reciepts and a list of option participants?
Please all you directors Korny included explain why you do this. Give one valid reason for the lack of accountability to your customers. ONE!
BASSK9

[Bill Cook]

Don-I have a spreadsheet available at each of my tournaments showing option pay-ins and pay-outs. It is available for any contestant to see. Since I announced that is is available, 2 people have asked to see it. Seems to me to be much ado about nothing.

[Guest]

BassK9 - I am with you. I want to post them as well. I am just relaying to you what I have heard. Trust me there are guys out there that don't want it to be known they aren't in the options. People get mad when its announced they weren't in the options.

The only thing I see as a possible drawback is.... I will have to re-write my software for posting the web results for the directors. Directors that are up for it... I will make it work for. I can't make the directors do that... Only Mendez can...

However - keep in mind.. Just knowing who is in the options isn't the whole answer... you need to also note what was paid back for each option... meaning break down the paybacks as well..

I think the best answer is just have the director provide a sheet at the weigh ins for those who want to see it.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

It would be embarrassing to many people. They would feel perhaps that you would think that they doubted your honesty. The fact that it is avalilable to them eliminates the necessity of their asking.

[JT-Madera]

I like the idea of a band around the engine cowl..I have had guys cut me off going down the bank and passing me in the five mile/no wake zone..I sure like to know whether they are in my tournament..

As far as the cowl band, maybe we could just get BDO to give up some of those pink thongs...I'm sure they would be big enough..we could just use black permanent marker for the numbers...

JT

[MIKE TREMONT]

I also like the band on the cowl idea-makes way to much sense though so I won't be holding my breath. There have been a lot of great idea's discussed here and nothing ever seems to come of it for one reason or another?

Sometimes (like now), I should probably keep my mouth shut, but I can't. Nice response kopper_bass, it sounds like sTony woke up on the wrong side of the bed ....

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

Mike, just out of curiousity, do you send out an income statement to those that do not pay into each individual tournament, but fishes throughout the season (ie..AOY or staff), the fact they didn't pay makes the entry fee income, not expenses for the individual, of course it is an expense for you..

mac

[Fishin' Dave]

Procedures:

1. I want my boat launched

2. Blast off at 8am

3. Have breakfast burritos ready as I blast off

4. 1 hour lunch break

5. Cold beer ready when I meet the check in boat

6. Someone brings my trailer and pulls me out

7. Awards cermony is a drive through so I never have to get out of my boat.

8. Staff straps down my boat, wipes it down, and washes my truck

9. BBQ hosted by Heff's Playmates after the awards

10. Staff drives me home so I can sleep.



Okay TDs I hope you were paying attention!!!!!

[JimmyReese]

Dave your ideas are very appealing!

Thankyou Anglers Choice for having your TOC during the week! I wish I were there.....A true champion was crowned! With no excuses....I love fishing during the week!

Thankyou WON for having 3:00 weigh-ins for the Delta event (1st flight)2;00or 2;30 is way to soon!

Thankyou FLW for a 22 minute/ 200 boat draw.....This is the best thing to happen since slice bread!

Its all good! and Jim I have two cheartreuse/orange bands from the columbia river they were ten bucks apiece and I will probably buy one more next september when we go back, cause I will forget these two here!

And....If you were #1 in line to sign -up and Gary Dobyns was sittin #2 well you get the jest..... It may cause havic and bribery!!!! ( luv ya Jim) I only would want to fish with Gary so I could teach him how to drop-shot.......

2 centavos
Jimmy

[Cooch]

The cowling bands, from my recolection, back in 1998, were required by the state of Washington. They were handed out to contestants by the BASS State Federation, actually I think we maybe paid $3 fer em the first year. On one side it was bright Yellow and had the word CONTEST on each side. On the reverse side, it indeed was a bright Orange and had some distress, like "Emergancy" I think, reference on it. There were no numbers as Tator references that they have in Idaho.

[Lance]

Why do I always ask myself the same question when I read a thread like this.

If things made sence back then (Cowling band) I would like to hear the argument as to why we stoped doing it or why it was never adopted here. Did it offend someone? Is that why we dont do it?

[BASSK9]

Bill I am sure you are honest and one of the few to make option contributions available. I had the pleasure of fishing with a WON director and USMC MSGT (Brett?) day one of last years Won Pro Am on the Delta. He is a great guy and I would bet my life he runs an honest tournament too. I also think Gene runs an honest tournament.
Why such a viel of secrecy about option collections and paybacks among the majority of directors? It leads me to wonder. Is it so hard to post this information on the internet? By so doing more people might fish some tournaments.
As for me I don't intend to fish tournaments unless this information is made available and public assuring no chance for skimming. I fished a circuit two years ago where the director gave preferential starting positions to late sign ups. You went out in roughly the order you signed up. I once saw a well known Delta angler walk in and announce I want #31 and he was awarded it.
Late sign up was encouraged to pad the directors pocket resulting in blast offs 30 minutes after safe light. I no longer fish AC team tournaments after that experience. That said I hear that the Stockton (Delta East) AC is a whole different and better story.
Not to infer that any director should work for free. However when one receives 15 to $17 a boat to run the tournament and has 50 boats he makes between $750 and $850 for the day. I would call that a handsome reward for a tournament director. Even half of that exceeds the average daily earnings in Contra Costa County. Strong arming an additional $10 (through the starting position) for late fee is unethical and the viel of secrecy regarding options is questionable.
I understand that particular Delta circuit now uses a draw system for starting positions. However it doesnt change the lasting impression of bulls**t left in my mind and the director will never get another dime from me. Read this fast because I am the deleted King.

BASSK9

[Bill Cook]

Don- that was Bret Smith. He is a good freind and a good man. You guys caught some donkeys that day. Running a tournament is not rocket science, most of us try to run a tournament that we would want to fish. We are very fortunate to have Bret, Gene, Gary Watts and Darrell Reed running tournaments for us in Northern California.

Good luck,
Bill Cook

[Hollywood]

Mike,

Here we have to have one of them Contestant bands around our motor cowling while in the tournament!

I'd like to see tournaments boat have numbers on them. Then you wouldnt have to ask "are you in a tournament"? every time someone comes up on you and if you see someone volilating the tournament rules you can turn in their boat #.

[nipples]

I got a fresh idea...

how about we just let the tournament guys run their tournaments the way they are going to run them and then if you decide that you don't like the way they're being run then fish with the org that runs things closest to what you're comfortable with.

If you ask a hundred guys how best to run a tournament you're likely to get a wide variety of answers.

sTony

I have to agree with Tony on this one.. Although I really like fishing dave's ideas.

The problem with the cowling bands is the cost. The money for the bands either comes out of the winnings, or it is an extra cost on the entry form. While I am for the bands 100%, I see a lot of complaining about less winnings or higher fees to enter. The green or orange plastic tape on the trolling motors works good, but it's hard to see when someone pulls a Gerald Swindle on you.

Also, those huge digital scale displays are quite expensive. Anglers would complain about absorbing the cost of those as well. (unless a sponsor donated them with their logo on them for advertising).

The only thing I would really like to see is a public posting of who paid into which options... well that and all of fishing dave's ideas... lol

Good Fishing,

-Paul-

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I have been stalking you for the past 7 or 8 years and about all that has accomplished is to get a big friendly greeting from you when I see you at the draws or on the water.
I really like the 200 boat 20 minute draws that FLW seems to do with absolute ease. In my opinion the way they accomplish that is by having the person who actually hands out the boat number slip to the boater not at the head table where the names are called from. And because they demand that the fishermen remain silent during the draw. The fishermen get their paper work at the location where they go to meet there co=anglers.
Good system.