Virginia Tech Shootings...

Calistar · Post by **Calistar** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:27 am

my god, what a horrific scene at that campus. I am just watching the footage right now on TV and I am just sickened by what happened. Worst campus shootings in U.S. History.

Deepest sympathies and prayers for the families and friends of the victims...

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:53 am

Wow, just read the story. 21 students dead. Sad.

lucas boden · Post by **lucas boden** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:07 am

i'm watchin it @ school, they just said its up to 32 dead now...

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:29 am

how sad. the media is going to be all lathered up over this one in their attempts to out-do each other

LundProV19 · Post by **LundProV19** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:37 am

I just moved back to CA from VA, and my best friends there are VT alums. I've been there for many football games & events, and was horrified when I started getting emails from my friends there this morning. Hard to believe this happened in Blacksburg. It's one of the tightest community student bodies I've ever seen. It'll be devastating to the students and alumni for a long time.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:42 am

Unbelievable....

Swimbait Wannabe · Post by **Swimbait Wannabe** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:27 pm

Why can't these losers just off themselves? I hate how they take innocent people with them. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their famlies. Just plain terrible. Wow.

Scott D. · Post by **Scott D.** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:07 pm

How sad. My heart goes out to the families that have lost loved ones because of that idiot. Another bad thing already coming out of it too is that the press is already jumping all over the gun control debate. When are people going to get it through their skulls that a gun is no more than a harmless rock without hands to hold it and operate it. Put it in the right hands and it creates freedom. Put it in the wrong hands and you get cases like Virginia Tech. If we stop worrying about the guns themselves and start hammering the dillholes that abuse them, then maybe we can stop this stupid behavior. Focus on the guns, and we're at a stand still people, and also dampening our own ability to protect our families and freedom.

MrSkeeter · Post by **MrSkeeter** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:05 pm

This is truly a sad day ... just heard from the press conference from the Virgina Tech president that there are 31 confirmed dead including the gunman.

I know and work some people there. Have not been able to contact any of them ... hopefully, they're ok ...

Here's some video if you're interested.

I heard one student account of this incident is this:

* the shooter had a loud argument in the dorm. The RA (resident assistant?) tried to break it up and ended up shot by the shooter. The shooter then went to class ... sometime later, the rest of the shootings happened.

My questions is this, after the first shooting at the dorm, some 2 hours had passed. Where's the police?? They should have been on the scene and the shooter should have been cornered before the rest of the shootings happened!!

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:32 pm

If even ONE teacher or student was armed, this idiot might not have been successful....gun control only helps criminals.

.....NaCl

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:05 pm

If even ONE teacher or student was armed, this idiot might not have been successful....gun control only helps criminals.

don't get this can of worms opened here

then you'd get some disgruntled teacher shooting students, or janitors shooting administrators. ensuring that guns are readily available and in possession of all as some form of "gun control" = priceless

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:25 pm

I don't live in fear of honest Americans in possession of firearms. I live in fear of liberal cowards who are delusional enough to believe they can provide me with "gun control" as a means to personal safety. There is NO good alternative to taking responsibility for your own safety.

Just my personal $.02

.....NaCl

Sign on my backyard gate:
"Don't beware of dog; beware of the gun toting owner!"

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:44 pm

NaCl wrote:I don't live in fear of honest Americans in possession of firearms. I live in fear of liberal cowards who are delusional enough to believe they can provide me with "gun control" as a means to personal safety. There is NO good alternative to taking responsibility for your own safety.

Just my personal $.02

.....NaCl

Sign on my backyard gate:
"Don't beware of dog; beware of the gun toting owner!"

I'm with ya NaCl

So that makes it $.04

Tobe

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:01 pm

NaCl wrote:I don't live in fear of honest Americans in possession of firearms.

Let me know when that perfect test that will be able to tell an "honest american" from one who is not comes out and I'll be with you. Until then we'll agree to disagree.

There is NO good alternative to taking responsibility for your own safety.

in this we are in agreement

cleb19 · Post by **cleb19** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:07 pm

Hitting close to home watched it at College today what is wrong with our society today

selfish acts by one person ruin it for the honest americans who use firearms for recreation, now watch how many liberals fire at us honest people who use guns the right way, I cant believe this my deepest thoughts and prayers to the victims and the families

Chad

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:11 pm

This is a senseless tragedy and I am praying for the families of all involved.

On the gun discussion, I am in agreement with Dean on this one. I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen of California, yet I cannot get a permit from my own state to carry a firearm for personal protection. I do have a carry permit from another state, which allows me to carry in 38 of our great 50 states. Why is it that a state that I do not live in trusts me but my own state does not? One word - but I won't go there or I'll have to move this to the political forum!

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:43 pm

Yep I'm with you too Dean....We both graduated from that school!

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:50 pm

Dean you can me in as well.

My heart and prayers go out to the families of this cowardly act as well.

I feel the future only holds more of the same but on a larger scale for us.

In my opinion it's part of the "whimpification" of our nation.

Mark Hiser · Post by **Mark Hiser** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:02 pm

Gator, You mean that you can't get one from your county, right?
Cause if you move up to[Tehama, Shasta, Lassen, Modoc, Trinity or Siskyou]counties, I don't believe you'll have any problem obtaining a Concealed Carry permit. It's only in those Counties full of folks with the same thought process as MikeD that have allowed or demanded that the " right to carry" or possess a firearm has been taken from you. But heck Gator, if you or your loved ones are accosted by bad guys all you have to do is call your local law enforcement agency and they will be on their way to help you in a jiffy

maybe you can ask the thugs to please wait until the cops show-up to help

I'm sure all the criminals in your county wouldn't dream of breakin these laws

Just razzin ya dude!!!
I feel for ya, it's just wrong!!!!

Not the place for this probably, This is just another sickening incident, my heart goes out to those people who have been forced to endure this irresponsible, irrational act.

Having or not having a gun did not create this tragedy. It is the result of another irrational, irresponsible individual who had no regard or respect for any other person or object in this world. Including himself.

Mark Hiser

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:14 pm

I agree with Dean as well.
I think its horrible every time something like this happens and my heart goes out to the people directly effected by these tragedies.
But I can't overlook the rest of us who are sure to be indirectly effected.
This comes right on the heels of the Imus affair which to me ended in a saddening blow to the first amendment. I can't recall any of the press even addressing the first amendment while discussing that fiasco.
Now # 2 is on the block again.
How long will our rights last?

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:35 pm

I don't know, but if ya live in California this event didn't happen here. So discussion on gun control is irrelevant to California. When was the last time there was an event like this, (on a school campus) occured?
Just answer the questions. No rhetoric please. Oh and yes I am a hunter!!!

Jon

cleb19 · Post by **cleb19** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:28 pm

The fact of the matter Jon is it can happen anywhere, whose to day it wont happen in California, I am a young HUNTER who has taken my classes in which gives me my rights to hunt and to bare arms, Im not for the whole teacher carrying guns thing but gun control is a NATION WIDE event and California is a joke, or some counties in particular are a joke when it comes to it, I am not a fan of any joe-blow carrying a gun but in certain situations it is right, My .02 and Im not attacking you but your repsonse was a little sarcastic......

Chad

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:39 pm

NaCl wrote:

Sign on my backyard gate:
"Don't beware of dog; beware of the gun toting owner!"

A sign I saw in Montana:

"If you're caught here at night, you'll be found here in the morning"

DPetty · Post by **DPetty** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:03 pm

1992, Lindhurst High School, Marysville, Ca. Eric Houston shot and killed several people. Geographics play no part in this ignorance but, since you ask. Unfortunately guns instead of the poor decisions of humans will be the blame. Thoughts and prayers to those envolved.

MrSkeeter · Post by **MrSkeeter** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:08 pm

Jon wrote:I don't know, but if ya live in California this event didn't happen here. So discussion on gun control is irrelevant to California. When was the last time there was an event like this, (on a school campus) occured?
Just answer the questions. No rhetoric please. Oh and yes I am a hunter!!!

I can happen anywhere ... here's one from 2001 ... here's a more recent one.

I'm a fishermen and not a hunter. But, I own guns ... I agree with the slogan that "it's people who kill people, not guns". ... As Gator said, if you arm all, there'll be less of this kind of senseless killings around. Personally, I'm still shaken by this ... I have two college kids in my family!! Make that SIX ... two of my own, four other nephews and neices.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:26 pm

I hear that Mr Skeeter, I called and talked to my son at school on the drive home from work tonight.

What troubles me about this are two things; 1) it "appears" the shooter is a foreign national that was not an enrolled student at the university and in the country on an F1 student visa and 2) it "appears" this was premeditated with the shooter using chains to trap students in the buildings and "apparently" phoning in false bomb reports last week to gage security respones on the campus. Quotes used to emphasize no official word as to the validity of this news I heard and read.

MrSkeeter · Post by **MrSkeeter** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:41 pm

StockOption wrote:What troubles me about this are two things; 1) it "appears" the shooter is a foreign national that was not an enrolled student at the university and in the country on an F1 student visa and 2) it "appears" this was premeditated with the shooter using chains to trap students in the buildings and "apparently" phoning in false bomb reports last week to gage security respones on the campus. Quotes used to emphasize no official word as to the validity of this news I heard and read.

I'm don't know anything about this being premeditated or not ... personally, I heard that the shooter started his rampage with a girlfriend in the dorms. Then went to class ... true or not, I don't know.

However, whether or not the shooter is a foreign nation (he IS reportedly a Asian male) has nothing to do with what happened. This person can easily have been ANY nationality ... let's not get into a racial discussion here.

The truly sad thing is that just months earlier, VT had another shooting that involved an escaped convict ... some police officers died in that incident as well.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:48 pm

Yes I used quotes Mr Skeeter as no official word has been given yet. Also the actual "race" of the shooter isn't my concern and was not my point......sorry, 9/11 made me this way and quite skeptical whenever an event of this magnitude and scope occurs.

I'll speculate no more as we need to let the investigators finish their work...

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:36 am

Dean,

You need to remove the sign on your gate. If anything bad ever did happen to an intruder, your sign establishes intent and can be used against you. (Ayoob)

These loonies count on unarmed victims, its part of the sick fantasy. Often when armed resistance is met, they commit suicide or use an officer to commit suicide. The bad guy points a gun at officers inviting death. I notice they rarely attack an army base for example, or a police station.

The real issue is mental, there are too many nuts, convicted sex offenders, etc. allowed to move about freely in our society.

A.G.

Off on a political rant/tangent.

I firmly believe in defending yourself, and having the means to do so.

sickofdinks · Post by **sickofdinks** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:32 am

If this would have happened in say a Oakland High School this mf'er he wouldnt have gotten off more than 2 rounds before he would have been shot by several students.

You can say what you want about carrying a concealed weapon but the facts show crime drops in that city when everyone carries a weapon.

My question is where the hell was campus security?

I really feel for the families that have lost loved ones!

crawdaddy · Post by **crawdaddy** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:32 am

In a classroom is a poor example. This has not happened in other states that don't have California's rules. Oakland has a gun death problem as does South Central Los Angeles, both these areas have very strict gun control laws. The student's guns in the Virginia Tech shootings had the serial numbers filed off so they were probably purchased illegally. Gun control laws have not shown to be effective to this point. The point at which they may become effective is when all guns are completely banned then you could no longer call yourself a hunter. Drugs are illegal but they are readily available, what leads you to believe gun control would be any different?

crawdaddy · Post by **crawdaddy** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:35 am

Here is a link. There seems to be a lot in California.

http://www.svrc.net/ShootingsMap.htm

Still want to extoll the virtues of gun control?
California has more school shootings than any other state in the union and any 4 states combined.

Jeff C. · Post by **Jeff C.** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:03 am

NaCl,

Boy it takes a lot of balls to call someone names on the internet just because you don't agree with their politics. Would you do that in person? Now who's the coward?

And oh yeah, I own guns myself - a 12 guage and a 22 rifle. While I agree with most liberal views I choose to disagree on some. Most bigots are conservative, does that mean all conservatives are bigots?

Jeff Calton

Rough Thumb · Post by **Rough Thumb** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:13 am

Who was called a name? I don't see that in this thread...

sickofdinks · Post by **sickofdinks** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:39 am

I have 3 guns

Ruger 357 Mag stainless 6" barrel
Ruger .40 Auto stainless and Titanium
Winchester 30/30 Texas Comemerative

Go ahead break into my house while im there I dare ya. LOL

For that matter go ahead and break in while im not there. I have four dogs that would love to give ya a love bite.

Nozmo King · Post by **Nozmo King** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:47 am

I think it was the mention of â€œliberal cowards.â€

sickofdinks · Post by **sickofdinks** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:55 am

I tell ya if everyone carried weapons there would be alot less crime in this country.

What criminal is going to rob a bank if everyone had a gun?

Make a law that if your commiting a crime with a weapon anyone can shot to kill. Now lets see who really wants to rob 7-11

The only [problem I would see is people that cant shoot. May want to make it mandatory to attend a course to get your permit. Hehehehe

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:21 pm

First of all, YES, I call em the way I see em...even in person! Anyone who knows me knows that.

Second, it does not take "balls" to stand up for what you believe. It takes integrity!

Third, of course, all liberals are not cowards. That said, most gun-control demanding liberals espouse "gun control" as their solution to social violence. They fail to recognize that in a country of 300 million people, there will ALWAYS be a few nutcases or criminals that WE need to defend ourselves against. And, in case you haven't heard during the last 7 years, there are more than a few anti-American thugs in this world who will not hesitate to harm us just for our citizenship...yes, they even harm liberals! People (liberal or otherwise) who are not willing to fight back...people who want to hide behind the military or police without taking any personal risk...I consider those folks to be cowards. And, in America, they have a RIGHT to be cowardly! So be it!

The problem arises when these cowards attempt to impose their own timid world view on me. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

.....NaCl
Gun owner, former hunter. Today, my guns are only for self defense in the unfortunate event they are ever needed!

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:48 pm

Nozmo-
My attempt to bring Imus into this was just my perception that not enough is being said in the main stream media about how situations like these could and probably will effect our rights down the road.

The relevance I saw was that it is a widely known fact that every time a tragic mass shooting occurs the gun control issue gains a new wind. It starts with reporters speculating and it doesn't take long for it get to congress. Do you think the pro gun control members of congress are paying close attention to the reactions of people who are asked "Do you think more restrictive gun control laws could have prevented this?" on camera?

It seems not so widely known that every time someone in the public eye says something that can be qualified as racist or sexist the political correctness issue gains a similar wind. It starts with "racial leaders" or "feminist leaders" or both making statements of outrage on airtime they don't seem to have any problem getting.
It doesn't take long to end up as policy in many peoples workplace. Say the wrong thing at the wrong time and you get sensitivity counseling if your lucky.
Which do you suppose people under this pressure teach their children? "You are free to say what's on your mind" or "Watch what you say or you'll get in trouble"?
It won't take long moving like that before people can't figure what freedom of speech is anymore. Its already very confusing.

All of our rights are vulnerable to this type of surreptitious obfuscation and the only way to prevent it is to focus on it daily.
When considering any issue we should never stop thinking "How could this effect my freedom, both now and in the future?".
The sum total of all of the other chatter should never outweigh the consideration of possible damages to our freedom.
When it's gone we won't get it back.

I have no love for nor beef with Imus. Heck, I'd never even heard of him before last week.
I agree that it was a business decision to let Imus go and I don't have a problem with that. The only reason anyone even heard him say it was because of the microphone his employers provided him. Its their right to take it back.

What I do have a problem with was that during all of the hours of discussion that I heard all anyone wanted to talk about was racism or the precedent being set by rappers. By the way I agree with most of what people had to say about those issues too, but it just seemed to dancing around a much more important point.

When people were asked if he should be fired the typical answer was "Yes, people shouldn't be allowed to say things like that", not "The first amendment protects his right to say that but if it causes advertisers to back away from the network then they have no choice"
Sorry if I jacked the thread everyone.
I'd go to the lounge but they're mean in there and I don't want to get beat up.
Wait, Ill pack my .45!!!!!

Nozmo King · Post by **Nozmo King** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:33 pm

Thanks for your explanation, Vince. I used to listen to Imus when I was doing a lot of driving & actually enjoyed his show. He had some great guests & funny sketches.

I made inferences from your comments from what I was hearing on the conservative talk radio shows that seemed to painting Imus as some kind of victim. The guy has spent almost his entire adult life in the entertainment business & has forgotten more about it than most of us (myself included) will ever know. So, I just thought the free speech thing was way overdone. I will give him credit â€“he apologized, admitted he was wrong & accepted the consequences of his actions.

I think one thing we all agree on is that this Virginia Tech incident was a horrible, depressing tragedy. Those families must be devastated.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:47 pm

They are either totally brave or totally stupid.
If you are one of those people who dont want law abiding citizens to own guns, you should try putting a sign on your front door stating that there are no guns in your house. If you are not stupid enough to do that then why would you want the rest of us to give up our guns. The fact that people can own guns protects all of you people who dont own them, simply because the bad guys dont know who does and who dosent.
They outlawed private ownership of guns in Australia and the crime rate went up over 300%.
They made it easy to get concealed weapons permits in Florida and the crime rate dropped by more than 300%.
What is it about these provable facts that the anti gunners dont understand
When a dictator takes over a country one of the first things he does is to take the guns away from the people. I could go on forever on this subject but I think nuff said.

And by the way------The hell with politically correctness it is simply a form of censorship

Jeff C. · Post by **Jeff C.** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:54 pm

NaCl wrote:there are more than a few anti-American thugs in this world who will not hesitate to harm us just for our citizenship...yes, they even harm liberals! People (liberal or otherwise) who are not willing to fight back...people who want to hide behind the military or police without taking any personal risk...I consider those folks to be cowards.

Ha! Well lets see Dean. You obviously believe there are "thugs" in the world that need to be dealt with. And you obviously aren't currently serving in our military. So how come you aren't taking on some of that "personal risk" yourself? Instead you choose to "hide behind the military". Let me guess, you keep a popgun hidden under your pillow in case Osama happens to move in next door.

So please let me know what "personal risk" you are taking to fight terror overseas and crime in your neighborhood. Because frankly, calling people names on the internet doesn't seem like an act of courage to me, quite the opposite.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:06 pm

Someone would be killed by one within 24 hours

The formula for gun powder is in almost any encyclopedia. A 12 inch length of pipe, a pipe cap, some of your home made gunpowder, a marble and a lit cigarette become a deadly weapon.
And by the way all of the ingredients for making your own gun powder can be bought at at any good sized grocery store.
within two weeks of all the guns disapearing the criminal element will be able to buy much more sofisticated and accurate weapons than the simple one I have described here
Just remember that the revolutionary was fought with hand made pistols and rifles that were very accurate before we learned to harness electricity

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:25 pm

Jeff,

I would not call out Dean. The guy is no coward and I would not want to meet him in a back alley. He will have no problem discussing the matter with you in person either.

Also, Dean hides behind no military. He has plenty of service under his belt.

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:57 pm

You're a real piece of work.

FYI - I did my time in a recon unit in Viet Nam in 1969-1970. I saved a cop from being beaten to death on the side of a freeway in 1976. I have nothing to prove to anyone...especially a pinhead intellect like you. Did you serve your country?

I also have a son and a son-in-law who carry guns for a living. They put their lives on the line protecting both liberal cowards and the unfortunate people who live in high crime areas. My son works in the absolute most dangerous neighborhood in Sacramento. He's been assaulted, shot at and threatened...but then you couldn't care less. You're obviously wrapped up in your own political agenda without concern for anyone else.

Spout off in ignorance all you want. I'm done wasting time with you. And yes, I have no trouble saying the same things to your face should we ever meet!

.....NaCl

77sunset · Post by **77sunset** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:40 pm

Well ironically , VT shooting happened almost anniversary of Columbine High School massacre which is April 20th 1999 .
At that time , I was living close to Columbine High School.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harri ... an_Klebold

Reminds me that day , I totally got shocked , because this community had a good reputation as a middle-class, very safety , no crime compared Denver city nor any other area.
Nobody ever expected that we will have such a tragedy.

http://www.members.tripod.com/~VanessaW ... ine-4.html

Till then I did not have any knowledge about gun , on the contrary I had a affirmative side against gun-control . But this tragedy made my thought completely changed.
Now really, I understand what Mr. NaCL commented.
And it's very important being in this country.

For good example ,Switzerland is very famous as a neutral country , but also very famous country as the most well armed population on the planet. If you are between the age of 18 & 65 you are part of the military reserve. Having that status you keep at home part of your fire arms.

The gun policy in Switzerland is unique in Europe. The personal weapon of militia personnel is kept at home as part of the military obligations. This, in addition to liberal gun laws and strong shooting traditions, has led to a very high gun count per capita.

I think this tells you < the most peaceful country supported by well armed population and has well trained defense .>

And no spoiled kids either , like giving a respect to the wild dogs

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:20 am

You will need someone to cover your back. Just say the word and I will be there. We can give new meaning to the over the hill gang.

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:16 am

Scott D. · Post by **Scott D.** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:51 am

Dean, you are a class act. I like you. I want to thank you for your service to our country. If we ever meet in person, I want to shake your hand brother-in-arms. What branch, Marine Corp? I got your back brother. I'll call in a strike from a squadron of F/A-18's for ya.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:32 am

Dean keep on preachin'! I can't wait to get back to the states to join you in the fight against the liberal left.

Is it ironic that a vast majority of the military is conservative? Coincidence maybe? I don't think so. It shouldn't even need to be said that "liberal" is typically synonymous with pansy. It's not our fault that you can't grasp that fact, maybe you oughta open your eyes, Jeff. It's not the conservatives that are going to anti-gun, anti-war, and anti-hunting/fishing rallies, following them up with a nice home cooked meal of Tofu burgers and sprouts. You want to associate yourself with those types of people, sadly, their reputation will become that of yourself.

God be with the families of those who were killed or hurt by this sorry excuse for a human being.

Cpl Lippert, USMC
Al Taqaddum, Iraq

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