Off limits or no offlimits this year.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:17 am

Has it made a difference? Seems to me looking at the standings in the DVL regions that most of the same old teams are still up there. What about the rest of So. Cal? Just a simple question. Please no drama. Rick G.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:22 am

I don't care for the off-limits myself - I don't think it accomplished what it intended.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:26 am

I think I started the campaign last year and I'll be the first to say, "Get rid of it." It used to work down here in So. Cal, before we had NBW, 100%, and AC. When it was only ABA and WON, the offlimits seemed to work pretty well. However, when you look at a place like DVL, there are tournaments on just about every Saturday and Sunday for the entire year. Makes it rough to practice anytime during the week.

For selfish reasons, I live 15 minutes away, so the lifting the offlimits would be great.

On a side note, I think DVL should cut their permits in half. It kind of stinks that you can't hardly ever go out there on the weekend without having to deal with some tournament.

Just my opinion. What's yours Rick?

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:36 am

Kyle and I have taken the "No practice" approach this year no matter what circuit. On the positive side it keeps the fish from getting the crap beat out of them all week. I am still for a "limited off limits" like Thursday-Friday. But who knows who is out there when they should not be. Sure is nice to go during the week when there is less boats though. I dont fish on the weekends unless there is a tournament. Rick G.

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:51 am

I really didn't care for the M-F off-limits and still don't. I was more of a fan of a limited off-limits period if ya had to have off-limits. I still think the M-F off-limits handicap the newcomers who need more time on the water and favor the guys that have more experience.

I would have to agree with Rick and would like to see some kind of limited off-limits period if ya have to have off-limits. Have just Thursday and Friday off-limits or allow guys to fish 4 days in the seven days prior to the event. Just thinking in type

My boat lives 7 minutes from the lake and the off-limts has curtailed a bunch of my fishing as the lake was off-limits and with us fishing virtually all the circuits on Castaic even the one without Off-Limits has Off-limits because it usually on the same weekend with an off-limits event

. But then again we usually have to beat our fish up the day before anyway for the first tourney of the weekend

DeltaBound · Post by **DeltaBound** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:06 am

On a side note, I think DVL should cut their permits in half. It kind of stinks that you can't hardly ever go out there on the weekend without having to deal with some tournament.

I agree

I also agree that the Off Limits should be repealed.

Bill Brown Jr. · Post by **Bill Brown Jr.** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:40 am

I personally do not feel that the off-limits rule has been able to perform the task at it was intended. It only seems to limit the number of available participants.

When an angler is running throughout the West to fish in the Stren Series, WON, WON Teams and Angler's Choice, it is difficult enough to get quality time on the water to pre-fish as it is. Now throw in the off-limits period for the only week an angler is able to be in town or can get time off work to pre-fish and they can't even fish.

If there has to be an off-limits rule than let it be a limited period such as two days before the tournament.

Just my $0.02.

tlindy · Post by **tlindy** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:09 am

No off limits. Let's fish.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:21 am

There was a DQ at the last San Diego WON for off limits violation. One caught, how many not? It is tough for clubs and other organizations to schedule around off limits. If somebody chooses to beat down their fish it only hurts them on tournament day. I am a strong believer in following every rule set by the organization I am fishing. In that light I recognize the disadvantage it places on me when others are allowed a "free pass" by the TD. If it stands as a rule a TD needs to have a representative on station all days of the off limits to enforce the rule. Is that happening?

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:23 am

OFF LIMITS SUCK!!! There I said it. Why have a rule that is not enforcable? Get rid of it. Brian if DVL cuts there permits in half, what than everybody goes into a draw? I don't think that you should open up that can of worms. Just my opinion!!!!!

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:23 am

It is the position of WON BASS that we will drop the off limits this upcoming year for team events in SoCal. We initially did not want to bring them back up for obvious enforcement reasons, but the prevailing sentiment among anglers at the beginning of the season was that they wanted it back.

I think it has proven once again to be a non-starter, so for the sake of anglers who want to get on the water on thier days off, for the sake of TD's who don't want to become policemen (no pun intended Ron C), and for the sake of consessionaires who may be impacted by the rule, we will be dropping it for the 2007-08 season.

Bill Hutcheson
WON BASS

William Pointing · Post by **William Pointing** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:26 am

That's NEXT YEAR, not the remainder of this year.

big_gorilla · Post by **big_gorilla** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:26 am

I would have to say that I prefer the off limits but I'm good with a limited off limits like Rick G said.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:44 am

Bill (the one who likes sheep),

There are too many tournaments out there dude. With all of the circuits we have fishing 5-7 tournaments in their schedules, it's kind of out of control. 70 plus tournaments a year on that little lake is a lot. Dont you think?

engineeringBASS · Post by **engineeringBASS** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:49 am

Here is my view on this. I am a newbie and i can't always pre-fish during the week, however i know for a fact that the top 5 teams fish thurs or friday before and they always do well. I know they are also good fisherman but i think DVL changes so often that you get a great advantage if you fish just before a tournement. I have seen this first hand.

I think a thur-fri off-limits would work and you can still fish when the lake is lite on boats.

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:52 am

I love everyone and I will love whatever rules you decide on. MP

EP · Post by EP » Tue May 01, 2007 11:08 am

Delete!

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:48 pm

My question is for the guys that wanted the offlimits. Has it helped in your standings at the end of the year? I also agree that there are way too many permits. Rick G.

Ron C · Post by **Ron C** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:55 pm

I have chosen to withdraw my post, as it was inappropriate. I wish to publicly apologize to Brian Linehan and to anyone else who I may have offended. Brian is and has always been a valuable asset to the fishing community and it would be a tremendous loss to everyone if he were to no longer post here. Once again, I apologize to you Brian.

Ron C

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:26 pm

mike at robo · Post by **mike at robo** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:45 pm

If i charged would it make a difference?

swimb8 · Post by **swimb8** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:50 pm

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahhhahahahahahh

Oh man you are classic.

swimb8 · Post by **swimb8** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:52 pm

Hey mikey! G to see your still pokin around here. You picked a good day. this should only get better. People create their own drama i just sit back and laugh at em. i think its better than cable.

Jeff Augustyn · Post by **Jeff Augustyn** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:59 pm

Brian,

I'm with you on this deal. I voted for the off limits & you know what...I hardly get to fish anymore anyway. So take it away...who gives a rats arse! I still think if it was enforced, it was a damn good idea you had. I'll back you up . At least you saw it through with best intentions for everyone ! I also agree that DVL is getting pounded & if the crowds & tourneys continue to increase weekly, it will be like Perris on weekneds soon(just with bigger fish). That place used to be a blast, now it's somewhat of a drag many times. It looks like Mike Phua's "skateboard park" on any given weekend anymore. So, chill out Bud, don't let 'em get to you...this board is just a place where everyone talks smack anyway...Later.....

manas_bass · Post by **manas_bass** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:18 pm

Brian, who cares what this "legend in his own mind" has to say? He thrives on this stuff.

Honestly, the offlimits helped me this year at DVL. I'm one of the guys who can't get out there during the week. Besides, you had good intentions and had a huge majority of support.

Keyboard commandos are gay.

Ron C · Post by **Ron C** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:23 pm

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:34 pm

I don't know if it has helped me or hurt me. Most likely it has hurt me. I do know for a fact that I've seen some new teams do well this year at DV. I'm not sure it's not because of the off-limit's though. DV is fishing different this year than the past 2 years. We all knew that the better teams would still do well, talant is still needed to do well. I really don't care if the off-limit period stay's, get modified or goes. I voted for it to be made and still think that in it's true form it's the best for all of us including the fish but understand that the off-limit's are not enforcable. Even if one person see's another angler go to the lake, it takes two anglers or person's to see it just to start the process of the DQ(at least in WON). Now to the other thing that Ron C has now started, I got Brain in the first round with a superman punch followed by a side mounted ground and pound elbows.
Guy Williams

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:39 pm

I think next year the lakes should be off-limits always and no pre-fishing at all. That should really even up the field.

In all seriousness........Brian you did a good thing. Something different. We tried it...... some are for it some aren't. I think it actually proved a point though. Same Lakes, different rules, Same guys on top! MP

DougH · Post by **DougH** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:50 pm

But wait, as Ron C is falling to the mat from that ferocious Superman blow, Brian (in his zeal for a quick KO) has leaped into an accidental triangle formed by Rons unconcious legs, and as Ron has semi-regained his awareness, he has locked his Knee over his ankle and Brian is now trapped, and beginning to choke.
Will Ron realize the predicament he has BL in in his dazed state? or will Brian slip out and resume his ground attack???

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:57 pm

I think what Brian did was great. I talked to a bunch of friends about the Off -Limits rule when it first came out, some liked it and some didn't. But one statement always kept popping up in conversation, "Brian is looking out for the little guy, he's giving them a voice". Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what's wrong with this world, it seems the average guy doesn't have a voice, Brian proved otherwise.

Did Off -Limits help my fishing? YES, without question. Why? because it made me manage my time on the water to be the most efficient. You would have to be blind to not see the differences in my finishes when comparing Off-Limits and no Off-Limits tournaments. For that, I thank you Brian

Lance

oakview · Post by **oakview** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:56 pm

Doug "Piss on your boat" H. - have you been hitting the bottle again...that was some funny sh*t...

As for the off limits...who cares lets get back to fishing...I thought it was a good idea at first but when I did get a day off I couldn't fun fish the lake b/c I had a tournament that weekend...that sucks...

Also, I have driven through the parking lot of Casitas durning the week before a tournament...I have seen a few trucks and trailers that made it to the tournament....You may ask why I didn't say anything...who cares...who is there to verify...nobody...so to me it was an integrity thing...some have it, some don't...

SO far the tournaments have always been a blast weather I make some or not...its even better when I get to go out and do some fun fishing if I get a day from work that week...

As for making the playing field level - who cares - all the good sticks - Baileys, the Robo team, Hart, Glover's, and all the other ones are always in the money...So to me hell with it...lets fish...

As one that doesn't get paid to fish...I would prefer to beable to fish during the week...mainly so I could fun fish...as for pre-fishing...it doesn't really matter on tournament day...

But I do want to raise a new question or idea: if a boat doesn't have a trolling motor on their boat they shouldn't be allowed on the a lake that doesn't allow no body contact...Casitas is driving me crazy on weekends....with all the f'n speed boats...

Just my 2 cents (which is only worth half of that)

Dave

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:22 pm

Just looking at results from DVL, I'd say that the off limits has changed things. How about the results from the Top Stick tournaments? Definately so! Just look at the team who's recently been killing everybody the last few weeks at DVL. Those guys are on fire and came out of nowhere!
I really think that you can argue the point either way though. Like a few guys already posted, Brian's sole intention for getting this passed was to help the average tournament guy out. Nothing more, nothing less. Brian is a fisherman 1st and a tournament director 2nd.

Ron, you were right all along. Knowing that it will boost your confidence, I pat you on the back. I'm guessing your turnout will swell tremendously next year. Good luck!

CN · Post by CN » Tue May 01, 2007 6:41 pm

I did not vote but you can point me out

Mike Nance 319 Stirling Road
Salinas Ca.93906
1-831-449-7087

PS:I dont want the lake all to myself,just a few less tournament's.

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:04 pm

I would be for the off-limits if it could be enforced.
That being said;
I do believe it would eventually help to somewhat level the playing field but it would take years to do it. Without a doubt in my mind, those anglers who pre-fish during the week have an advantage over those who don't. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR TIME ON THE WATER!! PERIOD!!!
I know that I do better on Sunday tournaments than I do on Saturday tournaments because I get time on Saturday to practice and figure out where the fish are and what they are doing. Even then I'm not much of a threat to finish in the top five because I still don't have the years of experience that other teams do. (But I'm learning and improving.)
Maybe what we probably need is for some organizations to have off-limits and some not and to and let people pick which organizations they want to fish. (Without the lakes dictating their will on the organizations.)
Variety, isn't it called the spice of life.
Just the ramblings of a 40+ year old wanna be bass tournament fisherman. (Someday I'm going to retire and kick all your ...... on the water.)

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:34 pm

get anybody mad at each other. Just some good info on a "hotbutton" issue. From the sounds of most of the current T/D's the offlimits policy next year is toast. One thing I have noticed this year is there's alot more encroachment and lack of respect for our fellow tournament anglers on the water. My best guess is that as the prize money increases, so will the on the water conflicts. Remember, Its all supposed to be fun, lets keep it that way. Rick G.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:50 pm

Trying to keep it going by mentioning the "E" word? Glad to see the TD's chime in and give us a look in the crystal ball. The big losers from this years off-limits were the "little guys" that played by the rules and stayed off the water the week before. How many teams have broken the rule and not been caught? It is a fact that all TD's are not policing the off-limits. I do feel for a team that goes out there, pays their money and fishes only to be told at the weigh-in you are DQ'd for off-limits violation. TD should have sent them home that morning. Encroachment needs to be better defined as too many guys let their competitive spirit override good on-the water ettiquite.

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:06 pm

Personally...(like anyone really cares) I would like it to stay. About the excuse that "it cant be enforced" thing . Cmon guys. Someones losing something here . If ya wanna go drown bait...hit it...how many lakes are around? Ya think the lakes wont be more crowded if more boats can get on the water? Try another lake,like before DV was there!!Yea..DV gettin worked pretty good. Now the "latest" reason is cant be enforced..soo,who has been cheating ,and who hasnt been? Already I hear "too many tournis" Yet when someone that is trusted and liked by all says try this org..ya-all jump and schedule a region for the year.Probably see even more the next few years,,money seems to drive things huh? It cracks me up honestly . All the organizations want all of the support. This is a good thing. Yet we whine about all the events every weekend.Complain the payouts arent high enough...etc..etc..Like I said once about this along time ago..becareful what you wish for. Reminds me of SoCal traffic...we all are part of it,complain..dont do one thing to remedy it,and keep complaining about the other guy in the way.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:25 pm

Encroachment seems to be a rule many Castaic guys dont understand . When the shad are up all hell breaks lose and respect for others goes right out the door . The way I undertstand it is 25 yards is the limit . Maybe you can clarify the rest . Does that 25 yards include casting and or passing . A director from A.C. running the Castaic region stated a boat fishing a cove 25 yards or less wide must allow another to pass to gain access to rest of the cove as long as there is more than 25 yards of water in the remainder of the cove . If I get a late draw and dont get the cove I want , good for the team that did . I wont push unless I have been pushed . What do you think ?

Waterdog007 · Post by **Waterdog007** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:37 pm

Rick,

Rookies perspective......my partner and I started fishing team tournaments this season. We just finished 27th w/ NBS, currently in 10th w/ ABA and 23rd w/ 100% Bass.

Being working stiffs all week, it's our feeling that we get a better shake with the off-limits in place. We do realize the difficulty of trying to monitor the waters, but feel strongly that it has improved our opportunities to compete.

The T.D.'s have done all they can do to keep things in-line, but as (engineeringBASS) stated above, there is still foul play on the lake.
"Thursday/Friday fishing prior to tournaments".

All of this being said, all we can ask for is a level playing field. If the industry truly wants new blood......then concessions will have to be made. If the new teams feel cheated they won't last long, hence reducing entry monies and pay outs.

You have definitly stuck a cord. Good thread!!!

southern · Post by **southern** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:57 pm

O.K.... Here we go again! To AAAALLLL you sports fans.... and you too Guy Williams - Thanks for pulling me out of hibernation. (Yawn) I think I'll chime in on Mr. Grover's thread, and I'm not sure why! But, I think the pineapple has a point (Phua). Where do all these Rumsfeld's come from? I never see them out at the lake so I must be blind or I'm just missing something here. But, I did come up with a brilliant solution.... How about I go out and pre-fish for everybody? Anyone interested in what the bite's like can vote or text to AT&T and the person sending the most votes will get my review of the lake for free. Remember each text message will cost 99 cents!

Ah, the hell with that idea. I've got a better one! Let's just do away with tournament fishing all together. We'll just show up at the park, have a BBQ, throw a frisbee, play softball (hopefully Pete M can pitch) 'cause I wouldn't mind hitting a lazer off his forehead or watching Linehan throw Guy Williams out trying to score going home. AAAHHH, forget it! You know somebody will complain because somebody is getting to go to the batting cages during the week or get pitching lessons from Roger Clemens and once again get an unfair advantage.

OK, how's this sound... we'll have donkey races. We'll take turns riding each others backs around Angler's parking lot during the Bass-A-Thon! We'll provide all the entertainment. No need for Iconelli, VanDamn or Martins or any of those other guys that pre-fish during the week. The End.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:42 am

With the exception of NBW, which has a new "Anglers of the year" this year, all the other circuits that fish at DVL have longtime DVL regulars entrenched in the top 5 in their current standings. This includes 100%, ABA, A/C and WON bass. So with that in mind the offlimits really did not make a difference to the usual top finishers, just like many predicted. But it seems that some teams thought it helped in their standings and that is OK too. Thanks for speaking up. For the "cheaters" you know who you are and someday will get your due. The T/D's job is to run the events their best, not to police the lakes during the week. As for enchroachment, at last weekends DVL/NBW event the guy getting squezzed the most still won the event. The cream will always rise to the top. Rick G.

Jim V. · Post by **Jim V.** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:44 am

Thurs - Fri off limits only next year.

Hasn't made a differene to us - we still sucked.

Waterdog007 · Post by **Waterdog007** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:51 am

Thursday/Friday off-limits next season sounds like a good compromise.

mike at robo · Post by **mike at robo** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:05 am

Brian lets talk more about this at the won bass tourney this weekend, it will be great!!

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:06 am

Thursday/Friday is good to me also. We can hire Mitch S. to watch the gate. Rick G.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:18 am

Kind of off topic a little, but, if DVL is getting pounded, how about a drive to open Mathews to the public?

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:48 am

I bounced that around here before, and got some kick-back. I've also had that conversation with a lot of folks in person, and there is some good interest in the possibility, although all agree that it would be an uphill battle.

I can tell you that it is an outside contingency on someone's radar, but I can't disclose exactly who's, but that isn't something that could or would happen any time soon.

I would be willing to help out any way I could, as would many of the guys in my club, if we had enough others interested and could get some guidance on how to proceed.

Given the over-utilization of the local lakes, the swelling population, and popularity of fishing and boating in general, our leaders need to be forward-thinking enough to plan an develop additional waterway resources. Regardless if this is opening up Mathews, or building another DVL, or some other unforeseen option, we need additional space for our recreation.

Roger

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:05 am

I love everyone and will love whatever rules you guys vote on!

MP

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:13 am

Guys like me that don't have your cell number and don't consider ourselves 'drama whores' are kind of left scratching our heads. Obviously I didn't see Ron's post before he removed it so I have no idea what was said but we'd surely miss your contributions to this website should you really decide not to post anymore.

I was also taken back a bit by Mike Phua's post and I would suggest that this website is a vehicle for all sorts of communications. It wasn't the folks that bring you this website that put the issue up for debate here and we surely don't see ourselves as being anything other then a forum for open communications.

All the tournament orgs met at last year's DFG permit jamboree and discussed the issue and came to a pretty much unified decision. They actually did so rather reluctantly as I don't think they saw an off limits period as being a positive thing for the sport overall and I think many of them voted in favor of it knowing full well it likely wouldn't last beyond the first year. But I can say that it was nice to see them get their heads together and bond on the issue and present it to their anglers all as one.

The poll that was run on this site was surely not the final say in what was to come, but just a kind of litmus test for public response.

As far as the drama goes on this website... well we here at WesternBass.Com surely don't wake up every morning trying to figure out how we're going to turn the site into Peyton Place and really don't appreciate when the talk turns against one another as that's not our intent for how the forums are to be used.

sTony

npangler · Post by **npangler** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:45 am

I have to agree with waterdog 007 off limits thur/friday
and to those who obey the current rule I applaude you
and to those who don't, you and you know who you are
you have no integrity or honor and should be banned
from tourny's

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