Boat Debate?

[TonyM]

My team partner has been fishing pro-ams as a non-boater for many years, so he has had the opportunity to ride in boats by most of the popular manufacturers. We both fished the Clear Lake Stren this spring. Though I only saw a few Legends in that tournament, he happened to draw two pros with Legend boats. They're a good looking boat and I've seen a lot of hype over Legend boats on this board, so was curious about his impressions with the boat. He classified the finish as just average. He also was not impressed with the ride. One of his pros speared three waves, soaking them both. There was some wind during that tourney and we all know how Clear Lake can get. I also know that wave conditions can vary greatly depending on which part of the lake you're on. Though I'm sure Legends weren't the only boats to spear waves that tournament, none of my pros did. He said both pros complained that water does not drain from the rod lockers. The next day, I saw a Legend and an old Hawk tied up together at the weigh in and heard the owners complaining to each other that their rod lockers still had water in them. My buddy has no axe to grind and against Legend and even looked at them at Inland before the tournament. Within a few minutes of talking to the guy at Inland, they offered him some type of sponsorship deal. Though they're probably a decent boat, I know I got my partner's true impression of Legends. Its human nature to defend our investments, so you won't always get an unbiased opinion from owners.

[bigbass111]

Have you been to the Triton, Ranger, Skeeter, Bass Cat and even Nitro Factory's. They all run a tight ship with state of the art buildings, 500K air systems and more. I promise you they are no better at building boats than the companies doing it for years. In fact they probably have many workers from other boat companies working there. But you are correct in saying ALL boats have problems their nothing more then a money pit.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

No wave spearing here from either my Hawk or my legend. If you know how to drive your boat in rough water you will not spear the waves. One of the things that work sgreat with legends is to trim down so that the deep V front part of the hull cuts the waves an much decreases the slap and pound that is inheranly built into most other boats.
If you are quartering into waves and the wind the water will splash up from the hull and blow into the boat just as it will with any boat.
I have fished my boat in some of the most horrible rainstorms that take place in Northern Ca I have fished all day in the rain for two days running and left my boat uncovered over night on those stormy times and none of my lockers have ever leaked.
I almost never get a drop of water out of my boat when I take out the plug except on those days when it has been rainiong so hard that the bilge pump comes on about every 30 minutes or so.
If its true that the right boat can give you an edge in catching fish, its too bad that so many of you guys are handicapping yourselves by not giving the legend a try.
Oh and biy the way the Legend finish does not ever take second place.
Check it out you guys before you buy your next boat. You might end up buying a different boat, I for one will stick with Legend whether they renew my sponsorship or not. I would rather drive a used Mercedes than a new Chevvy, and I would rather drive a used Legend that any of the other new boats

[bigbass111]

SOLD I'll take 2, They also appreciate in value by 2k a month. "The only dry boat", in fact the hull levitates above the water line so the hull doesnt even get wet. Just wait till next month they have a new force field sheilding you from rain. They now only need a motor that will push it over 70 without being behind your truck. HOLLY CRAPOLA

"NOW THATS FUNNY I DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE" Larry "The acble guy"

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

And you are much better at expressing yourself than I am. Perhaps thats why yopu are a magazine editor and I am a Carpenter.
I told them about the glove compartment door and LO and Behold they fixed it.
I like your Idea of the test rides, absolutely the best way for any one to judge.
By the way my boat has over 200 hard hours with no repairs and no stress cracks. I basically run a boat at two speeds dead stopped and all out top speed if it is safe to do so. When ever I am running my boat its because I want to be where I am going as quickly as I can get there. That gives my bait more time in the water. I want the best soft ride that I can find. At almost 74 years of age my back would not survive very long under the pounding that the other boats give it.
Legend is my choice

[jackcasey]

Heres my 2 cent: I would buy a Ranger the model of your choice after test driving them. Consider the length of time they have been in business and the standards Ranger has set that all other boat manufactures follow. Think about the resale value of your investment. In 1986 I purchased a new Ranger 375V, with a Yamaha Pro-V 150 at Bobs Marine, I paid a little over $17,000.00. I sold that boat for $9,700.00 18 years later. Garge kept and not ever been in the shop for anything. Fished it from Lake Isabella to Shasta and many places in between. I still see the boat and motor from time to time. My replacement boat was a 2005 Ranger Z20, 225 Vmax. I just wanted to upgrade. RAISE THE BAR BUY A RANGER.

[MN]

When I ordered my boat the last thing I was concerned about was speed.I wanted good resale value,allthough the wife said it's my last boat,and most important was how it fished.I have owned other brand's of Bass boat's so i had some experiance with them.I fanally decided on a Ranger and it was the best choice for ME.

I even ordered it with a 200HP instead of the 225HP it is rated for so i would have more freeboard at the transom.Personally I dont see where speed make's a boat better.

But what the hell do I know I cought more fish out of a leaky Aluminium boat.

[drew]

I partially agree with your statements about the higher residual value of ranger boats over some of the other brands. However inflation does raise the value of the older boats as well as the current models.

From what I have gathered from some of the recent threads about the different brands, is that most manufactures are improving their designs and quality. The difference in quality of the top competing brands is getting closer. I believe this makes the initial purchase price more of a factor. I would consider buying an equivalently equipped Legend over a Ranger if it cost $7-10k less.

[Mike Phua]

Remember in Boat Manufacturing it is impossible to be made better and be less money.

It'd be the equivalent of saying "Well I think I'm gonna buy the Kia because it's built just as nice as the S 550 Mercedes."

Everyone uses the same motors right? Those cost the same wether it's an Evinrude, Yamaha, or Mercury. The difference is the manufacturing process: Gauge of Vinyl, Breakers over fuses, Aluminum panels verses Plastic, 40 oz. carpet vs. 28 oz. carpet etc, etc.......cutting corners in these areas is how companies shave money off pricing.

In todays market where you find each company stepping up there game as far as quality goes you'll find most of them are only a few thousand dollars apart when equipped the same. MP

[Guest]

Whatever you Ranger fools.. you are like cows getting herded to the $60,000+ slaughter house.. believe the hype if you want. I've ridden in them all from a Ranger Z-20, Ranger Z-21, Skeeter Z225, i20, Triton Tr21X, many stratos boats and several Champions.. I owned a Basscat Pantera Classic and have ridden in a Basscat Cougar FTD and a Basscat Puma... none of them ride any better than my Legend. My Legend is the best riding boat I have ever ridden in... BAR NONE.. and I have never taken a wave over the bow... Clear Lake can get bad... I have been on it when it was really bad, and I still never took one over the bow , That is just piss poor driving. On the subject of the finish of the Legend being just OK.. Are you freaking kidding me.. if you can show me one wrinkle in my boat.. one little anomaly from the manufacturing of the boat I will buy you lunch. What a joke, these boats are built top notch and every bit as good as any other boat on the market. A very independent person, Jim Payne of Stay-N-Charge has been in every brand of boat known to bass fisherman and he states "Legend's rigger is the very best in the business" Meaning th cables and setup of the engine compartment... Just look in an engine compartment and you can see the care and the details Legend goes to make a great boat. It speaks for ITSELF... The don't need to use bribes to get you to buy one (FLW TOUR/SERIES/STREN).... they let the boat sell itself.. ride one and you'll see what I mean.

I took one ride in Rus Snyders' Z20 boat and the ride was so bad that I asked him to drop me at the next boat dock we came across! I needed traction after that ride. My back never hurt so bad in my life... Not even after a football game!! I will NEVER ride in a Ranger Z-20 again PERIOD... let alone own one.

I tried to keep off the "buy a boat like mine" thing... Truthfully, I don't think anyone should ever buy a boat because I or anyone else say its the best. Ask any boat owner and they'll say they love their boat.... in fact I would say 100% of the Legend boat owners I have talked to love their boat.. and probably only 70% of the Ranger guys I have talked to think they are the best riding boat. If we want to sling mud and talk bad about other boats.. I've got lots of ammo --- I'll stop here but, I can write pages of stuff on every boat brand and even have a dozen or so emails of people slamming their own boat manufacturer trying to get support from them or whatever by threatening negative press.

I can care the heck less what boat you buy... it's your spine not mine. As a fellow angler I offer you the best advice I can... if you buy a Ranger... Ranger will send me big fat check of $0... Same with Legend or Triton or Skeeter or Stratos.. so what do I care what you buy? I tell it the way it is because I honestly think they are the best riding boat, are a great company and a great buy! I am trying to help a fellow nutcase out... other guys are just trying to be another sheep dog herding the cattle to the $60,000+ slaughterhouse!

Do yourself a huge favor... drive as many boat brands as you can.... and then use the three B's - your Back, your Brain and your Bank account to decide which boat to buy!

Just because Johnny Rocket is a good fisherman doesn't make him the say all on who makes the best boat. Be your own freaking judge - but, don't judge from the sidelines get in them and take em for a spin... kick the tires and see what YOU think... after all its your 35,000 to 60,000 and your spine!

[drew]

I disagree. Hypothetically a larger more well known manufacturer could build a better and less expensive boat then a smaller less known company. The larger MFG would buy all materials at a higher volume and a reduced price. The engineering and marketing would be amortized over a larger volume as well. Also the profit margin has a major affect on what the consumer pays for a product. Sometimes market share and reputation dictate the margin.

Remember in Boat Manufacturing it is impossible to be made better and be less money.

It'd be the equivalent of saying "Well I think I'm gonna buy the Kia because it's built just as nice as the S 550 Mercedes."

Everyone uses the same motors right? Those cost the same wether it's an Evinrude, Yamaha, or Mercury. The difference is the manufacturing process: Gauge of Vinyl, Breakers over fuses, Aluminum panels verses Plastic, 40 oz. carpet vs. 28 oz. carpet etc, etc.......cutting corners in these areas is how companies shave money off pricing.

In todays market where you find each company stepping up there game as far as quality goes you'll find most of them are only a few thousand dollars apart when equipped the same. MP

[Mike Phua]

Tom you must love your Legend so much that you must actually spend your whole tournament day driving don't you?

Remember there's another boat company out there that is a way better fishing platform, and a Legend couldn't hold it's jock in 2 1/2 footers on any day......................it begins with a "C" and ends with "hampion" I think you've might of heard of them. They're your competition for ride if you want to call it that. Us "foolish Ranger" owners will just head back to the dock to get our backs worked on since our boats suck and watch you guys battle out the "ride championship" MP

P.S. I love you man!

[Guest]

MP - I agree champs ride great... I'd own a Champ anytime... Oh yeah, the same guy designed the hulls! Probably the best bass boat hull designer ever... I believe he has family in So-Cal ---

Rangers don't suck completely, they fish great... and the 520 was a fantastic boat.

I don't drive much in my tournaments actually - I try to keep my bait wet as long as I can.. I need all the help I can get to get a decent limit in the boat.

As for you Ranger guys - nothing wrong with being part of the herd.. someone's gotta do it and if you are lucky enough to win an FLW or Stren it pays off... Great for those 8 guys a year.. the rest of you hundreds of Ranger owners.. well, sorry and thanks for your extra $10-$20 K!

P.S. - I love you too man!

[Nick_Barr]

AS for the More money you pay, the better the boat. That is not true, for the most part. All I can say is that Ranger, Skeeter, Triton, ETC. Give away SO many boats for tournaments, pro-staff, etc. to where they are on the losing end when it comes to the $ aspect. Think of all the advertising they do, the millions of dollars they spend annually on give away boats, Advertising, etc. THEY MAKE THAT MONEY BACK UP BY INFLATING THE RETAIL PRICE OF THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!

Legend spends A LOT less money on advertising and gives away fewer boats. So in return, there is less mark up, because they dont have to make up the money that they spent on advertising. THAT is why you can find a BRAND NEW LEGEND LE-21 with a 250 Mercury Pro XS for $38K or a 225 opti for $34K

Maybe if RANGER spent less on advertising, etc. The boat prices will come down.

[bigbass111]

All I have to say is you get what you pay for. I would rather spend the extra money on something that is proven and has a name for itself. When new buyers go to buy a boat and they ask around their going to hear Triton, Ranger and skeeter. Legend is still new and nobody knows if their going to make it. Ya you might see one or two here or there on the west. But out where I live now in the east people have no idea what Legend is. Heck, Legend cant even spell Georgia right on their website. The only Legend I have seen out here was on Santee Cooper and I was towing him in. He had one of those problems that Legend apparently doesnt have (delam). You legend guys are making Legend out to be some super boat that has failed how many names now (Viper, Fisher and so on). If that hull is gold how come it doesnt hold up in sales and marketing. Shoot, with a hull thats guarenteed to not get you wet or hit a wave wrong I'm there. Someone said Ranger Owners are herded (maybe to FLW) but you should look in the mirror. I run a Boat dealership and I never bash the competition it makes me look stupid and it doesnt work. I hope you Legend guys get off your horse because your getting destroyed by the competition. I heard Ranger's stock went down because their slogan reads " STILL BUILDING LEGENDS ONE AT A TIME"

[drew]

Does anyone know what Genmar's plans are for Champion in the future?

Tom you must love your Legend so much that you must actually spend your whole tournament day driving don't you?

Remember there's another boat company out there that is a way better fishing platform, and a Legend couldn't hold it's jock in 2 1/2 footers on any day......................it begins with a "C" and ends with "hampion" I think you've might of heard of them. They're your competition for ride if you want to call it that. Us "foolish Ranger" owners will just head back to the dock to get our backs worked on since our boats suck and watch you guys battle out the "ride championship" MP

P.S. I love you man!

[bigbass111]

Ex Champion talent huh!!!! And Champion's going under what does that say for the EX TALENT BUILDING LEGENDS!!!! OH MY GOSH PEOPLE "READ BETWEEN THE BEAMS" everyone knows that Champion is going away. But it hasn't been in competition with any boat line for years. Thats why its going under and if champion TALENT is builing Legends what does that say............

[Mike Phua]

Nick and Drew................. in this market if your $5,000-10,000 less you must be made better? I'm gonna make sure I send a memo to Flippin Arkansas and let them know that they can sell alot more boats and be considered to be better if they lower their prices and don't advertise as much. What a frigin Joke!

Nick I know what invoice is on a 199 Alpha and an Le-21 and if your finding them for those prices you should buy em and resale em because as a dealer that's what I can frigin buy em for. NOW WHY IS THAT? Is there some kind of special charity program in Washington that gives away boats for invoice that I don't know about? MP

[bigbass111]

AMEN!!!!!! Mike........

[drew]

MP, I think you missed my point. I was basically saying that Ranger boats might sell for more then the competition because they have a larger percent of the market and have a better then average reputation. I believe they cost more partially because they have a larger margin on their product.

[bigbass111]

I think I can speak for Mike when I say dealers set the margin and all dealers try for the same on any make. Whether its a Ranger, Triton or anything else. If the boat has been in stock for awhile it needs to go and so on.

[Guest]

Bigbass111 -- THere is only 1 reason Champion is going away and that is because Ranger doesn't want the competition. They are herding you cattle already and are bribing the pros to fish from Rangers... Why do they need Champion.

Champions are better boats than Rangers. Period. It's sad they are going away. Oh well, thank god for Legends.

I am off this topic now. All I can say is ---- If you guys really believed in your boats ---- you'd be telling the guy TAKE TEST DRIVES.... because you too would believe the boat would see itself. However, you know as well as I know that anyone that doesn't have to be in a Ranger that takes one for a test ride on any kind of rough water will RUN from buying one. So read between those freaking lines you hide behind your screen name beyatch! No worries I am "sniffin" you out this time... Please reply BigBass111

[Jeff Jewell]

ok, I'm not going to mention the brand I own, ( it is one of the one your looking at). That being said, The best riding boat I've personally been in is a Triton Tr-21, funny thing is the worst riding boat I've ever been in is a Triton TR-21..
So you do need to drive then for yourself, the driver does make a difference....

[bigbass111]

For One, I dont Own a Ranger and would'nt but I dont Bash Them. I give them the respect they deserve they helped bass fishing improve from day one. Two, My name is Justin Hanold and I dont hide because i tried 20 times to get signed in a it kept messing up. So i had to use my friends email and a weird sign-in name because thats all I could do. Three, I give an average of 5-7 demos a week in the Florida Everglades and Lake Okeechobee which rivals Mead in waves. I didnt go off on bashing any boat until you and SR whoever started in on how much better yours are. I'm sorry but I cant bite my lip. I'll start putting my name at the end just for you for now on. But all this crap about Legend prices and ride, your making me sick. But I cant just not post or read about this its like getting bit on a swimbait or something. If you go back to the FIRST page youll see I said take test drives on this and that. I personally sell Triton Boats which I love but I'm not going to say its the best, it fits ME. I sell the Tritons From $600 alum to the $260,000 express cabins and have to compare Triton to Intrepid, Marlago, See Vee, Contender and so on. Its hard to hear someone BS going on and on about a dry smooth ride in 3-4s when its not true driver or not. I could sit here and bash Legend like on the 300 days a year when the water is calm I'll be to the spot 20min before you because my boats faster and has more room. BUT i didnt say that did I, you can be happy all you want with your boat but its making me sick. Because its not true!!!!!!! Genmar is pushing out Champion but not because of Ranger and competition. Champion does not sell nether does Stratos and youll probably see them go away. If your not a big dog your a little one and if you cant hang youll be eaten. There have been soooo many companies that come out with a boat and claim its the best but pooof their gone in 6-8 years. Look at Storm Bass boats, ahh you probably have never heard of them. They used to be the ultimate big water boat on the east now where are they 1-4 boats a year. At this point Legend to me in all honesty is like the old saying "You can s--- in one hand and wish in the other" but I truly hope Legend makes it, I do. Without choice's your stuck on the bank.

Justin

[kb]

Tom, just so you don't think I am one of the sponsored guys hiding I wanted to let you know that the with in the first few hours of this post being put up I put a call in to Greg Kosich (G-Ko) the guy that started this post looking for information on many of these boats. I had a nice talk with him since I do have one of the boats he is interested in, a Triton TR20X2 with a 250 Pro XS. We are going to get on the water for a demo either at the Delta during the pro-teen or he is coming up to Folsom.

If you guys put together a demo day with all the brands together on the water give me a call and I will be there. I too believe that the boat I am in is the best on the water and have no problem putting someone in my boat and showing them.

This sounds like a great promotion for Bass West, I will be happy to promote it for you on my radio show as well.

If any of you guys would like more information on Triton drop me a line and I would be more than happy to talk with you about them

Other team guys would be happy to help you as well so contact a Triton Dealer and they will get you on the water.

Triton Owners Tournament
October 6-7 Clear Lake, CA
100% payback plus a fully rigged TR200 with a 225 Optimax.
For more information go to www.tritonboats.com

Kent Brown
Triton Factory Team

[MPOLLARD]

Thats what we need to do.Bring a Nitro Z9,Triton 20xs,Ranger Z20,Skeeter 20I,Champion,Pro Craft,Basscat,and the Legend,and have a boat Rally at Clear Lake,or Don Pedro.Let everybody test ride the boats and get there on opion.Have Basswest there to document it and Ultimate Radio.Lets settle this wants and for all. (I know the Ranger guys will still say there boat is the best,same with Skeeter,Legend and etc)We could have a judgeing system.Best handling,best ride,fastest hole shot,top speed,dry ride,fish ability,best platform,most storage.etc.I think every boat has its + and - .Each boat has good and bad.

MPollard
www.gfmarine.com
www.savephace.com
www.teampollardfishing.com
www.teampollard.net for Central Valley real estate.

[drew]

Thats a very good idea. I would show up to an event like that. It would be awesome to test the different models side by side.

[Rick G]

I have tried to stay out of this subject because I feel that "Which Boat is best" debate is good for the sport. But as most threads go the info the original poster is looking for gets "Jacked". As far as that Gentleman goes, get a ride, do your homework, and get whatever you decide from a good reputable dealer. One that has a good history of service and sales. Resale should also come into play as face it, some day you might want to take up golf or something else and want to sell your boat. That is where a "Top 5-6 brand" comes in. Enough said as all that matters is when you open your garage door you have EXACTLY what you want. As far as the rest of this thread, let me state to you all a few facts.
1- Champion is not going anywhere. I just came from the dealer meeting and their sales were up 14% last year. They are currently #6 in Bassboat sales behind Ranger, Skeeter, Triton, Stratos and Nitro. They have {Genmar} invested lots of $ in Champion for new models in the near future.
2- Ranger has no interest in seeing Champion go away as Genmar, with Ranger, Champion and Stratos has just this year PASSED the 50% total market share in ALL bassboat sales nationwide.
3- The Champion buyer is not the Ranger buyer and is just like the smaller companies customers, very loyal. Genmar knows that.
4-There are very loyal customers on this site and that is GREAT. Passion is a good thing, mis- information is not.
5- Fact-Ranger's sales were a little down from last year. Lots of cool new stuff for next year though.
Cant we just stick to the facts please. Rick Grover-Anglers Marine

[CharlieS.]

[quote="TomLeogrande"]Bigbass111 -- THere is only 1 reason Champion is going away and that is because Ranger doesn't want the competition. They are herding you cattle already and are bribing the pros to fish from Rangers... Why do they need Champion.

Champions are better boats than Rangers. Period. It's sad they are going away. Oh well, thank god for Legends.

Isnt that like Cadillac wanting Chev ,Buick ,or GMC to fold up?..They all answer to the same parent company. - Charlie

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

All of the promotions that some of the boat companies provide have to be paid for by the purchasers of the boats. in a large company you have higly paid executives whose salaries have to be paid by the purchasers of their boats.
Big Fancy Factories also cost big money that all of the boat buyers have to pay for
How much do you think the added cost for instance gets put on a boat that you buy, to support a program like the Rangr cup?
Ranger builds a good boat, but so do many other companies who can sell boats that are equal to or better for less money.
That is the way of the free enterprise system.
I for instance as a small Contractor can build a quality house for less money than a big contractor who has a high overhead. He has to build cheaply built homes with corner cutting methods in subdivisions. This is simply a fact of life in almost every industry.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

*NM*

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

after the Champion he designed the Viper and the Cobra which were improvements on the champion design. Then the Hawk which is an improvement of the previous three. His redesign for the Legend is an improvement over all of them.
Put Jon Storeys design together with The management philosphy of Dean Smith the owner of Legend an the dedicated craftsmen who build the Legend and you have the finest bassboat that I have ever driven or ridden in.
Champion is a great boat, it just has not kept up with the times.

[Hipster]

Removed

I apoligize was having a bad moment and went off on the puter

[Kyle]

hahahahhahahaa. word.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

they left over 300 experienced boatbuilders behind. Dean Smith in a brilliant business move immediatly shut down his pland in Louisanna I believe and moved to Arkansas about 2 miles from the ranger pland and hired the best ten people out of the 300 that Champion left behind. This is why the workmanship on the Legends is so superior to any of the compitition.

This is great fun. I hope you guys keep up the good work in badmouthing Legend so that Tom and I can keep proving you wrong

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

Would be pleased to answer if you clear up my misunderstanding

Jim

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

You sound like a reasonable man.
Here in the West we have what we call shared weight Pro/Am tournaments.
We weighin a 5 fish limit made up of fish caught by both the Pro and the Am. These are normally two day tournaments and you draw a different partner for each day. We fish several different lakes on these circuits with several different partners for the day.
For the Am It is like having a guide for the day who really wants you to catch fish be cause your catch counts for him too.

Ok what I am trying to say is that an Am who fishes 15 or so of these tournaments gets a ride in 30 boats a year and over a period of the six years that I have fished as an Am I have been in a whale of a lot of boats. This is what I base my opinion on when I say that the best rough water bass boat is the Legend. It has lots of other bests as well but I really just wanted to let you know that I have enough seat time in enough Bass boats to have a valid opinion.
How many hours of personal seat time do you have in a Legend?

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

*NM*

[Rick G]

Jim, please get the FACTS straight.
#1- His name is John Storie. My father-in-law
#2- The first molds he made were for the Fisher fiberglass line which was at that time just bought by Tracker.
#3- When his non-compete ran out with then Champion owners the Porthouse family, he started Cobra/Viper.
#4- When that company ran into underfunding issues John went to outside help, Local businessman Charles Luna who drove John out of Cobra/Viper.
#5- John Relocates to Oklahoma and starts Hawk which suffers the same underfunding issues as in Mt. Home.
#6- Hawk molds now become Legends
The underlying theme here is that to start a boat company in todays marketplace against big competition like Genmar, Brunswick and Yamaha is a long and very expensive uphill battle. You are correct in the fact's that when Champion left Mt. Home many good craftsmen lost their jobs. Some went to Ranger, Basscat, TI trailers and Legend. Next time you are back there you should take a Ranger Factory tour. You will be floored at how efficient they are. Also go by the Forrest/Nina Wood museum, it will blow you away with images of the history of Bassfishing. I have sold Bassboats since 1981 and have seen ALL sides of this business. There is plenty of room for everyone as long as we continue to grow the sport. Rick G.

[Simon]

[CN]

Poor ole Ranger,kinda like the ole family dog that passes.

Sure funny how I remember those old Bomber style boat's taking off at the first Classic.I am right that was the boat decal I saw on those boat's

Ranger boat's make's a quality product.Compare it to anything you want.

My question is why in so many word's single it out.

I bet if you ask anyone not involved in Bass fishing and mention Ranger boat's they would say those are those bass boat's huh.Seem's to me they have done as much if not more for this industry than anything else.

Do they make the best Bass boat--------who care's.

[kb]

Thanks for the history lesson Ricky. Some of us remember the old days and I hope these guys throwing around their "expertise" recognize it.

Remember guys Mr. Grover was the Champion dealer out here in the 80's and still is and believe me he wasn't a Ranger fan or was he loved much by the Ranger folks.....but he knew how to sell the hell out of boats. Funny how these things work out isn't it....now he is the top Ranger dealer in the country....and now I am selling Tritons!!!

Just be careful whom you bash as you might be working for them next year......or you might be fired by them when they take over.

It has never mattered what hats we had on the wealthy boat salesman and I have always been friends and treated each other with respect, threw rocks at each other but respected each other. Heck if Van Wagner doesn't see me in a few weeks he calls and wonders why. It is a pretty small industry and a great deal of friends in it selling competitive products. Now how was it you convinced Cindy to go out with you??????? I bet half these guys are trying to figure out if you are b.s ing them about your father in law.

later
kb

[Lance]

You dont mess with Rick

[Kyle]

owned.

[Champion West]

Evening All!

The Great Boat Debate Continues!

Simply put, Genmar has NO PLANS to Close CHAMPION or Stratos BOATS, quite the opposite!!!

For the individuals in this industry that are spreading such rediculous rumors, back it up with substantition.

On the Champion front, we just closed our first full year under the New Management with Don Wood as President.

A GREAT YEAR IT WAS!!!

Genmar invested Hundreds of Thousands of $$$$ in New Product Designs, Advertising and Marketing with completely New Catalog's, a New Website, - www.championboats.com for those of you that have not visited it this year, Diamond Club Tournament Contingeny Programs etc. etc. and have realized Double digit Sales increases while the industry is on a down trend.
We just got back from our 2008 Year Model Dealer meeting, whereby all that attended were treated with the introduction of our New product line to come and received GREAT REVIEWS.

With all this being real, you have to ask yourself why would such a prominent company as Genmar spend all this $$$ to close down one of their many Prominent brands they offer to the market?

I did read a comment tonight that Genmar has exceeded 50%Market Share in the Bass Boat Industry, this is also true!

All this being substantiated by yours truly, Champon West.

Most of you are aware, since 1975 Champion has built it's reputation on it's Ride, Performance Handling, Fit & Finish and HIGH RESALE VALUE.

For all of you that have been loyal Champion Owners, we THANK YOU for your support and look forward to providing you with GREAT product in the years ahead, and hope to see all of you at the Lake Mead Champion Boatowners Tournament on September 29th 2007.

By the way, for anyone interested in experiencing an on the water demo of any of our New models, our West Coast Dealers and or myself will be glad to take you to the water.

Competition, bring it on!!!!

If anyone has any further questions, I am available at 949-488-0489.

Good Fishing!
Cary

CHAMPION WEST
No Limits- Passion Rules
Ride & Decide!

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I make spelling mistakes all the time. Thank you for telling me the correct spelling

What you did not get straight Is you should have put number 7 in there about the fact that John Storie was the redesigner of the Hawk hull that became the Legend, Just as most of Mr. Stories design from Champion thru Legend are an evolution of improvement.

When Legend advetised in Mountain Home for boat builders after Champion left, I was told that they interviewed over 200 ex Champion emplotees to pick out the less than double handfull of top professional boat building craftsmen to work for Legend

Leaving out those parts of your narritive is the same as missinformation.

Since Mr. Storey is your father in law why dont you invite him to post here on the forum and tell us about his opinion.

I totally agree that underfunding is the reason that the companies you mentioned were forced out of business. I certainly hope that does not happen to Legend. It is too great a boat to not be available to those with the ability to see past all of the hype that we see produced by some of the other boat builders and their dealers.

I sincerely believe that John Storie is the premiere bassboat designer of our era.

[Rick G]

I agree that John Storie is one of the best Bassboat designers of all time. There are many from that area including the Pierce family, the Woods, and the Hoppers. John worked at the Bull Shoals Dam with Forrest before he started Ranger. He also started a Trailer company called "Basstrail Trailers" which he sold to Dallas and Margo Gross who changed the name to TI trailers. It is now one of the largest Trailer Mfg's in the USA under the EZ Loader name. There were also many other people involved with the rise of the Champion Hull design including Bruce Benton and Bill Pace. Now for the FACT OF ALL TIME FOR ALL YOU LEGEND LOVERS- THE ORIGINAL VIPER/COBRA/HAWK HULL WAS DESIGNED OFF OF A 488VS RANGER MOLD. Guess those Rangers are'nt so bad after all. If you would like that confirmed in person, just call the Anaheim Store 714-666-2628 and the very nice lady that answers the phone is Kathy Storie- Champion/Viper/Cobra/Hawk founder. John is currently in Florida doing what he does and loves the most, buliding Saltwater Boats. Have a great day. Rick G.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

I did not know that he made variations to the Ranger mold, but then you as a relative would be expected to know things that the rest of us dont know.

Since I know from a lot of seat time in Rangers, Hawks, and Legends as well as Champions Cobras and Vipers, that they all have a better ride than the Ranger. It seems to me that with all of their wonderful techknowledgy and modern factory. That Ranger would have been able to get ahead and stay ahead of one measly designer like John Storey. Of course design by commitee is never capable of doing better than the single man with genuis. The commitee makes too many compromises to keep its self happy.

there are several boats that having fished the passengers seat during tournament, it takes my back about 10 days of therapy exercises to get my back well. Many of the people who have ridden in my boat when i was fishing as a pro have commented that it was the most comfortable boat that they have ever ridden in.

Quite often I have driven across franks tract or on Ceae lake at 55 in total comfort when all of the other boats that I saw running were slamming and pounding at 40. This a simple fact that I knpw to be true

My only wish is that people interested in a boat take a test ride in all of the boats that they can before they spend money that could perhaps buy them some other stuff that they or their family need.

If you think that a Ranger is the best boat on the market. get a ride in one and and a Legend on the same water on the same day.
The potential in savings of several thousand dollars is well worth your time and effort

[Lance]

This is getting old but where did I read this....hmmmmm


Greg wrote:

Thanks for everyone's input, each is helpful and recorded in a little spot in my brain to compare. I have looked at Legends, and think they make a good boat, but not exactly what I am looking for. On BassCat I just don't think the boat design fits me.

I have really taken my decision down to the 20x2 and the z-20. i am going to wait for the changes of 2008, and see what deals come up between now and then.

Thanks again to everyone, this forum is great.

Greg

Greg, Im sure you cant go wrong with either the 20X2 or the Z20.
Waiting for the 08's isnt a bad idea either.

Cramming "boat brand" down someones throat isnt cool. Remember, he asked for information on 20X2 or the Z20, thats it

[FRANK D. LOZANO]

Bass Boat Shootout

I apologize in advance for hijacking this thread, but because of the topic and timing, I have to make this announcement.

I have intentionally stayed out of this topic because I am the type to let consumers make their own choices based on the information they gather with out the high-pressure sales pitch. I think all of the boats built today have their good points and bad and it is about personal preference and choice. I like them all! They are all screaming machines that you can literally fly in legally, and they look great.

Ok, here is the announcement!

Mark your calendars guys! On September 30th, 2007, at the Antioch Rivertown Jamboree, we are having a Bass Boat Shootout, Bass Fishing Seminars, and other events thought out the weekend. The event will be more of an exhibition, but we will be putting the contestants through their paces and it should be a blast. We are currently working through the details and contestants. We just finalized the 5-mil liability insurance requirements for the city.

Check it out at www.inland-marine.com/RivertownJamboree.html

Anyone that would like to be in the event to show your stuff, please let me know.
Give me a ring or send me an e-mail at frank@inland-marine.com .

KB, polish your prop and get her tuned if you want to attend. Rick G. give me a ring if you would like to represent.

This is going to be all for fun with a little thrill!