Nice Move ABA and DFG???

BassketCase · Post by **BassketCase** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:03 pm

So Imagine, Driving 3 1/2 hours from Redding to Clear Lake last night till midnight, sleeping in the truck for 4 1/2 miserable hours, blasting off from Library Park and running the whole lake to put together a sack that you feel proud of, getting back to weigh-in feeling pretty good about your day.... and then... You get to the dock and a guy holding a cardboard "ABA check-in" sign tells you to turn around go out 2 miles and dump your fish because the DFG has pulled the permit????

I thought he was kidding... nope. He said as soon as we were done to trailer the boat and we would meet to discuss what had happened.
So we are all standing around and one of the DFG peeps informs us all about how the tournament director was suspended from any tournament activities for all 2006 and 2007 tournaments on Clear Lake for improperly running a weigh-in last year that resulted in a bunch of dead fish. Dont get me wrong, the guy might have deserved the suspension but come-on... cancel the tournament at weigh in??? Hey DFG how about a fine to ABA or something. Why penalize the guys fishing for a shoddily run fishing organization? Hey ABA, when one of your peeps screws up, and you let him drop the ball again, I hope for your reputations sake, you not only reimburse our entry fees, but try and help us recupe some of our expenses as well. Gas isn't cheap these days...

PS- PM me to find out where I want you to send my plaque

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:38 pm

Wow, I can't even tell you how angry I would be.

I'm certainly not going to point any fingers but it sure is looking like a pattern at Clear Lake?

I fished the ABA's night tournament in question last year and can tell you first hand that ABA got a bit of bad rap, I am not saying they are perfect but I do know that all those fish did not die as a direct result of the tournament.
It was around the same time the weeds were being sprayed, we found tons of dead bass, crappie and carp from Rocky Point down to Lakeport and that was the day before the tournament.

What I find troubling is the fact they did not let the anglers weigh in and finish the tournament.
If there was an issue with the tournament director, he could have been dealt with after the weigh-ins.

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:07 pm

who was the tourney director?

zeke · Post by **zeke** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:13 pm

As one of the victims of todayâ€™s fine display of our tax dollars at waste, I would like to add a couple more thoughts. DFG personal new before the tournament started who was running the show. They conveniently showed up after we blasted off. It was not just one DFG person but also three of them. It is Sunday isnâ€™t it? Maybe they feel safety in numbers??

I have been fishing on Clearlake for over 5 years now and never have I ever seen DFG on the lake except at tournaments. Are we the bad guys or what!!! Last time I checked all tournaments have penalties for dead fish. Maybe the DFG thinks we like to pay for travel hotels dining entry fees gas tackle licenses boats rods reels electronics trolling motors batteries life vests etc. etc. SO WE CAN KILL OUR FISH AND GET THE WEIGHT PENALTIES AND LOOSE.

COME ON DFG!!! Find someone or something better to spend our tax dollars on. Our goal during all tournaments is CATCH AND RELEASE. I can safely say that in the 50 + tournaments that I have fished in I have not had more than one days limit come to the scales dead. With less than 2% of all fish weighed in dead it seems that bass tournaments should not even be on the list of things to worry about. The last time I checked my fishing license allows me to KILL a limit of bass every day. Thatâ€™s 5 a day for 365 days a year, or 1825 just for me. Hey, DFG if I'm not mistaken the tournament organizations have to file a report after each tournament? Why don't you take out your calculator and add up all the dead fish listed on your reports and post that. I'll bet itâ€™s less than the amount youâ€™re allowed to kill with just one license.

DFG quit picking on the jaywalkers and go find the murderers!!!

BassketCase · Post by **BassketCase** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:36 pm

The Directors name is Steve Adams. He is a super nice guy and I am sure that there was some misunderstanding as to what really went down. Steve even announced prior to blast off that DFG was going to be around for the weigh-in and to make sure that we were wearing our licenses. I think that if he knew he was not supposed to be there he wouldn't have been there... who knows.

As far as the tournament last year, I am sure that Steve was the fall guy for the dead fish. Its easier to blame tournament anglers then admit that pumping the lake full of chemicals could be the cause... go figure.

Dan Stahlman · Post by **Dan Stahlman** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:57 pm

First, lets get this straight. Fish and Game were doing their job. If you don't like their concern for protecting the fishery, then go some place else. You guys are a collective bunch of jerks which is the nicest way I can put it. This guy had been warned and he went ahead and held the tournament anyway. What would Clear Lake be if everybody conducted weighins like he has in the past. I know I will get blasted for sticking up for the action of Fish and Game but thank goodness somebody is looking out for our resource from a bunch of whinning jerks that could care less about the fishery. I've fished tournaments for more years that some of the whinners have been alive and seen the attitude of fishermen deteoriate into win at all cost and to hell with the resource.

Go ahead and blast me but twenty years from now when there is an outcry of people against tournament fishing you will have nobody to blame except yourselves. You whinners make me sick with you bitching about abiding by the laws to protect the fisheries. Come on, blast me and you can put it where the sun doesn't shine. In addition to my aboved rants,I would like to express my thanks to the ones that get the drift of what I am talking about. They are the concerned anglers that want to see the sport continued.

Thank you Fish and Game and I could care less about your response I am sure to take from you whinners. I am just getting sick and tired of people who come here and don't give a damn about the rrsource. My name is Dan Stahlman, I live here, and I want my chidren and granchildren to enjoy what I have for the last 25 years, so blast away folks.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:02 pm

I will be the first one to bring it back Dan. First of all, that is a stand up move to post under your full name. We can all see who it is that cares so much about their opinion. I am sure most will agree with some of your post. Very few tournament bass fishermen are out there to kill a pile of fish. That said, the rest of your attack is way off base. If DFG cared about this tournament going on why did they let them go out that morning? Was the permit pulled before the day of the contest? If not then DFG is the worthless pile as portrayed by the contestants. If every one of these guys were just out there as the general public would there have been an outcry that 20,30,40 or even 50 boats came in with HALF of their rightful limit? What if they came in and filleted em right there since they were just out fishing like anybody else with their license properly displayed and within the regulations of taking those fish? Certainly seems these guys were unfairly targeted by DFG for being involved in this contest. Pure and Simple. No variance, just fishing like the rest of the public. Tournament fishing has made this monster by giving over to this extended regulation by the DFG for a few small concessions. We pay them extra permit fees for NOTHING in return. We file tournament reports for NOTHING in return. We buy licenses, pay launch fees, taxes on equipment at a much higher fequency than the average public fisherman. Then we have Jerks like you that attack us for POSSIBLY killing a few of the fish brought to the dock. If you want to target somebody for damaging the resource look at some of these organized cartels that are using babies in strollers to count for their actual take at the lake. Many studies have been done relating to the mortality of tournament fish. None have proven that tournament fishing is damaging any resource. Seems the biggest problem the guys above have is that they spent considerable money showing up to play an event and nobody had the courtesy to tell them it was cancelled. DFG knew what their intentions were. If they were relayed to ABA, then shame on ABA. If not, then this is just more proof that we as tournament anglers have given DFG too much control over our given right to catch a limit of fish each day we choose to be on the water. Where is there a law that you have to drive two miles to release a fish? Funny part is most us would NEVER intentionally kill a bass. And we pay a lot of money not to do it. Last thing we need is clueless people making tournament fishing out to be the bad guy here. I think the original post was right on. Nobody was hung in the town square before knowing the facts. Too bad YOU DAN STAHLMAN do not have the same restraint of judgement.

hammer · Post by **hammer** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:21 pm

Stahlman,

What are you thinking coming on a bass website and categorizing tournament fisherman as whining jerks. So what if you have lived up here for a long time, my fam. has been here since the 1940's, does that make me mad at out-or town bass fishermen or tourney fishermen in general.

I think at least 95% of tournament fishermen do everything they can before and after a weigh in, as well as when fun-fishing, to keep fish alive. That number is probably underestimated too!

It is B.S. that D.F.G. shows up just to tourney's. I have never seen them on the water either and fish C.L. every day. All they have to do is go down to Konocti and they will see more fish under 12 inches kept and killed than can keep themselves busy. I could go on and on about better things they could be doing with their timeor where to catch POACHERS, but I won't, as I guess they do have a difficult job. Driving around in a truck all day and harrassing law-abiding citizens is really tiring. Sorry, I have just had a couple bad experiences with the D.F.G. both hunting and fishing and it is hard to respect many of them. I have met some that are good guys, but not many, and none in Lake County except for at a few tournaments.

Have fun with the rest of the responses to your post Stahlman.

B.T.W. Doesn't the guy from A.B.A. hold the Wed. night Turkey Shoots. Anybody know if this is going to effect those, I was going to fish the one this week.

Thanks

Nacho libre · Post by **Nacho libre** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:11 am

I can't let Stahlmans post go without making a comment. I am fairly new to tournament Bass fishing, but have been fishing and hunting all my life. From what I have seen, the people who run these tournaments and the anglers do everything possible to preserve our resources. Not only are the DFG laws followed to the letter, but these organizations have self-imposed rules that far exceed the Fish and Games requirements. We all know that the DFG is under staffed and under funded, It just seems like a waste to be using the few wardens that are out there to watch over a responsible group of anglers when they could be out busting the poachers that are damaging our wildlife populations

revrat · Post by **revrat** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:32 am

Nacho libre wrote: It just seems like a waste to be using the few wardens that are out there to watch over a responsible group of anglers when they could be out busting the poachers that are damaging our wildlife populations

But it's so much easier to jack up the folks who you know are 100% likely to be cooperative than to deal with the folks who line up to rape the fishery with their buckets and night crawlers who pretend to not speak "engrish" when confronted about keeping:
A) undersized fish, and B) many fish over the limit. I've seen the apathy of DFG towards these real offenders with my own two eyes after calling them on the phone, as a concerned angler to come and set straight some poachers who were wreaking their own kind of fishing havoc on Clear Lake. There was no response. Maybe if I had told them there were 39 boats in a tournament and there was three floaters at the weigh in, they would have rolled the DFG SWAT Team out and maybe even shot someone.

I understand the need for DFG, and I understand the need for cooperation between DFG and tournament fishermen, but when we go out of our way to pay more to fish, and do a LOT more than the average meat fisherman to protect the resource, we should get better treatment than to be scrutinized more, and have in progress tournaments yanked out from under us after having layed out a significant financial commitment. I have the utmost respect for DFG, and know that their job is a difficult one, and I realize that they are stretched pretty thin, but come on. Is this really the way to conduct the business of the state?

I kind of like the idea that Zeke talked about to me the other day.
He said something to the effect of, "Just to remind them of our rights, we should have a tournament/fish fry and cook up a limit of fish from each contestant right at the weigh-in sometime." I'd like to say, I'll bring the corn meal. Maybe seeing 150+ fish heads LEGALLY in the trash can versus maybe a collection of dead fish that could be couted on one's fingers would demonstrate to them that we are doing an overall EXCELLENT job of policing ourselves and taking care of the fishery at Clear Lake.

As for the Wednesday night T-Shoots, they are still going on, and with a permit on the way, if it is not already here. It is not run by any tournament organization, and a big thanks and shout out to Kenny O for keeping it together this year, especially with the last couple weeks of drama. Thumbs up to you, Bro!

See ya'll at the County Park Wed. night at 5.

Travis Tarver

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:27 am

I won't stand for any attacks so everyone needs to back off.

A tournament was suspended and actions were taken by local and state authorities. DFG was there in force to make sure all anglers were notified and that the fish were processed back into the water in the proper manner.

For years tournament organizers have known that you must release fish 2 miles from shoreline on Clear Lake. Anybody violating that rule yesterday heard about it in spades from DFG personnel. Despite being told what to do some anglers thought it was okay to just ignore those instructions and that mentality is what is at the root of this entire incident. When officials tell you to do or not do something you'd better listen to them. We run tournaments up at Clear Lake, many times under the scrutiny of DFG and most of us welcome their presence. It takes a break in the rules to get the result that was experienced yesterday.

Bottom line is if you were a competitor in the field you likely need to contact American Bass to find out what they're doing for those anglers.

That DFG was there to enforce the rules which all of us operate under is admirable and needed to happen. I do feel badly for the TD that was apparently arrested because I know him to be a nice man. Sadly it would appear that he didn't heed the instructions of the DFG and that was a poor decision to make. It doesn't make this guy a bad person but it clearly was a bad choice.

sTony

PS - Dan Stahlman's post, minus the name calling and obscenities, is very accurate as to what and why this happened. Well at least the info leading up to Dan posts is accurate. He is also a resident of Clear Lake so he has a better perspective on what is going on up there. Why anyone would attack Dan is beyond comprehension and those folks need to really re-evaluate their purpose and intent. The lake is there for all to enjoy and there are rules to do so and I' might add, not all that many rules, so please, enjoy the lake and let DFG do the job they're tasked to do.

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:21 am

sTony, you make some excellent points..As a totally non-involved fisherman, I can see the concerns from both sides of the fence..Was the situation handled in the best way possible for all concerned..The answer is, obviously not..Could I have done it any better, I don't know..It just seems to me the action taken was poorly thought out by both sides of the equation..I know that if I had been in the tournament, I would be upset and probably not all that understanding..If I were the DFG, I would like to think I would have done more to make sure everyone understood the why's and wherefore's of the actions taken..

mac

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:19 am

Okay guys, I tend to skip most of this kind of stuff but I'm in a bad mood today so I'm going to indulge myself.

1. Spelling - I'm tired of reading certain words that are chronically misspelled by bass fisherman. Since some of you folks love to talk about "whinning" then spell the damn word right! It's W H I N I N G! Same thing goes for "strippers"...if you're into chasing "strippers" then you're a sick dude! It's S T R I P E R S! That's it for my spelling rant.

2. Now for DFG...I completely agree that DFG is not doing enough at Clearlake to address the rampant poaching. Last year, I witnessed a poacher unloading dozens of fish...including undersized bass...from his bassboat into coolers. He had everything...bass, crappie, catfish, bluegill. Then, he put the coolers (the big picnic sized coolers) in the back of a van and went back out fishing!!! I figured this guy will be super easy to bust because he'll be back again later. I called CALTIP several times and got no answer! Must not be convenient for DFG to care about poaching on weekends. My impression at that time was that DFG was not doing enough to protect the resource. Now, they busted the ABA tournament director this weekend for ignoring their orders...GOOD! They're doing their job. As far as cancelling the tournament, the event was being run illegally because the responsible manager (the TD) was not in compliance with DFG sanctions so terminating the event was entirely appropriate. I'd say the DFG did a good job. And, that TD exercised some really poor judgment.

3. Now, lets talk about legal liability and lawsuits. Were anglers "harmed" by the actions of DFG? NO! They were harmed financially by the actions of the tournament director and the sponsoring organization, in this case ABA. So, what do you do about someone whose actions caused you a loss? You give them a chance to make things right and, if they don't, then you file a lawsuit. There are several requirements necessary to win a court case against someone who "harms" you.

First, you must prove who actually caused the damages. In this case, the TD knew in advance that he was in violation of a lawful DFG order. I think he's screwed! As far as the ABA organization, if they hold the permit, then they are ultimately liable for everything that happens at that event, including their selection of the tournament director.

Second, as the person who was harmed, you must prove that real damages resulted from the actions of the other party. This means proof as opposed to vague generalizations...receipts for entry fees, cashed check, credit card statements for any fees that can be directly attributed to the event. Courts will reject unsupported generalizations like, "Well judge, it usually takes me a tank of gas in each direction to get to Clearlake but I paid cash and didn't get any receipt." The judge will dismiss claims like that. You haven't "proved" the damages.

If I fished this event, I'd put together a list of my expenses and send a demand letter (fuel for both boat and truck, motel costs, meals, lost vacation time, etc.) to BOTH the tournament director and the ABA asking for reimbursement. I would give them a limited time period to respond...say 30 days. The letter would be sent by registered mail, return receipt requested, so I could prove they got the letter. If they fail to respond, then I'd file a lawsuit in my local small claims court and serve a summons on them. Then, it would be up to the court to decide if I was actually "harmed" by the actions of the other parties and the amount of damages I have actually proved. In my case, the defendants would be in deep stuff because I always leave my house to go fishing with a full tank in both my truck and boat. Then, after I get off the water I can refill both and get a receipt so I can know (and can prove) exactly how much fuel I consumed. The other costs like motel and food are on credit cards...again, easy to prove the expense. As far as "lost wages or vacation days lost", an employer statement is usually sufficient if it clearly shows the time off during the days of the event (including prefish days) or the consumption of vacation days during the tournament time. (ps. You might have some difficulty "proving" vacation days lost for prefishing on the Delta when it was done two weeks before the event in order to fish the right tide.) Ultimately, when someone else's actions cause you damage it is only fair for them to compensate you for your losses.

Just my observations and response to all the "whinners" and "stripper" chasers!

.....NaCl

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:28 am

NaCl wrote:1. Spelling - I'm tired of reading certain words that are chronically misspelled by bass fisherman. Since some of you folks love to talk about "whinning" then spell the damn word right! It's W H I N I N G! Same thing goes for "strippers"...if you're into chasing "strippers" then you're a sick dude! It's S T R I P E R S! That's it for my spelling rant.l

And don't forget the chronically misspelled "breaks" for brakes. It's trailer brakes and centrifugal brakes, not "breaks."

Love,
Der Spelling Bee

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:36 am

Tank yu fr teh speling leson.Much apitited. we so smert.

knaht uoy rof eht pleh

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:16 am

No worse than "waist" when the correct word is "waste"..

mac

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:19 am

mac (Doyle McEwen) wrote:No worse than "waist" when the correct word is "waste"..

Ewe think it's no worse? Eye, however, don't think sew!

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:09 pm

I'll admit that the spelling stuff bugs me too, almost like it jumps off the page at me.

trailor = trailer
cought = caught
stripper = striper
waist = waste

and the infamous your/you're their/there/they're misuses.

I'm no rocket scientist but I'm left to wonder about the edjumukation or laziness of some - words don't have to be hard...

Sincerely,

The Spelling Nazi

we now return you to our regular thread topic...

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:16 pm

DAmn NaCl ...I agree 100% with your post..Careful guys the sky is falling...

If any of you misguided anglers believe attacking the DFG on this or any website will be productive you are totally lost...THEY do have the power to close down ALL tournaments at any time...I have witnessed what happened when several anglers pissed them off at a meeting about moving bass from Eastman Lake a few years back...( they closed the lake to all fishing ) They will close your favorite lake in a heartbeat if you tick them off...So I would use careful consideration and pick my words, it will cost all of us... When DFG told the TD not to hold the tournament, he did so at his own peril and it cost him..blame the TD.. not the guys who enforced the law...ABA owes you Not the DFG...

All misspelled words in this post are the property of the poster and are not subject to discussion..or spellcheck

Jim Turner

JT

Kentuck · Post by **Kentuck** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:42 pm

They had their permit pulled, knew that, and the TD was banned from having tourny's. They went ahead and held the event anyway? Crooks. They could have notified everyone and saved a lot of headaches for the anglers and lots of money for themselves.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:04 pm

I know several of the good folks that work for the DFG and they're all marvelous people. Wonderful to work with and they do listen a lot more then they're being given credit for in this thread. For the most part they are all reasonable folks and some have become very good friends.

The thread is being 'jacked' all over the place. Listen, DFG did their job and I for one am grateful and I won't pick at the situation to try to affect a scar for either the tournament org or the DFG. What's done is done and the participating parties will, no doubt, sort through this on their own and come to a resolution. I'm sure something will be worked out with the competing anglers as well.

sTony

ash · Post by **ash** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:03 pm

But I personaly know of one person who is active on this board and is a Bass Fisherman that works for the DFG. Collaboration is what this is about, if we as tournament anglers want the DFG to work with us and respect us then we need to resiprocate and work with them and respect them. This means that ALL tournaments great and small on Clear Lake relocate fish 2 miles away. That we look at how we treat the resources while we are there, provide fish samples,data etc... in turn I am sure we will make friends that we can have a conversation with instead of flamming on a forum.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:09 pm

Absolutely correct!!!!

sTony

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:28 pm

I have a really good friend very near the top of the DFG chart and I look forward to chatting with him soon.

As far as spelling - I don't pay much attention because it's about getting the point acrossed not an English class...

But, with that said the one that gets me most is Loose insted of Lose.

P.S. I am sure I make as many or more errors than most.

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:58 pm

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch taem at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Such a cdonition is arppoiately cllaed Typoglycemia. Amzanig huh? Yaeh and yuo awlyas thugoht slpeling was ipmorantt.

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:11 pm

Have you ever eaten a "stripper"? HAR!

.....NaCl

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:24 pm

That is such a loaded question that could get us a slap on the wrist from NetNanny, hahaha. Please lets not go there!

sTony

RichThiel · Post by **RichThiel** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:32 pm

Dam Gary

I could actually read that.

Rich

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:32 pm

as a matter of fact.............one time in Tijuana when I was in the Marines we kinda got a little drunk.....I'm not sure whether we ate the stripper or the donkey

But I had a bad taste in my mouth for a week...

JT

Mac probably remembers those days...

Jason C. · Post by **Jason C.** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:33 pm

i just wanted to get in on this speeling deal!! Sorrt for the thread jack HAR HAR HAR!!

Mike Thomas · Post by **Mike Thomas** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:59 pm

NaCl wrote:Have you ever eaten a "stripper"? HAR!

.....NaCl

........Please excuse me while I duct tape my hands to the arm rest's of my chair to keep myself from posting the 4652 highly amusing and extremly sarcastic comments that came to mind the split second I read that!

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:13 pm

First point, I checked NaCl's post and every word was properly spelled.
Second point, Original poster said the fishermen recieved no notification that the tournament was cancelled until they came in to weigh-in. If there was no tournament then why was there a requirement to follow tournament protocol on the release of the fish? Nobody was over-limit or fishing with a variance for size or transportation. DFG was just playing gun totin' cowboys with the general public at that point. The Eastman story is completly different. It is illegal to transport fish without a permit. Breaking the law, is different than coming to the dock with legally caught fish. If later posts are true, ABA's TD has big problems that may spread to the organization. As a participant in this organizations tournaments, I would like to know about these things. The main point I believe Dan Stahlman ignored is these problems are not the fault of the anglers. Look at the original post. He did not point the finger at one entity. It was directed as a question of who was to blame. To call the anglers names because they display their frustration on WesternBass is uncalled for. Dan Stahlman still owes these guys an apology.

Jeff Jewell · Post by **Jeff Jewell** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:53 pm

Uhhh this should be heading towards the Lounge now... Hey what happenend to the lounge anyway....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:02 pm

Let me first start by saying I am 100% in support of Law Enforcement of all levels and agencies. I designed software with, implented for and trained 1000's of Law Enforcement officers in the use of the software in 4 states includiing our own state of California and the entire state of Nevada. I can't think of any 1 officer or higher up that I wouldn't call my friend! I worked with the DFG hand in hand for nearly a year designing a computer program for them (about 4 years ago). I met with their entire administrative staff on several occassions to determing their needs and help decide what would be the best solution for their problems. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the organization.

On top of all that, I played football with 45 of the best guys I have ever met with the Inland Empire Enforcers for 6 years helping them to win five titles. I would go to war with those guys anytime... each and every one of them had the best in mind for their community and the safety of its citizens at all times. We even raised $25,000 for Loma Linda Childrens hospital by playing in a game against Snoop Dogg and his all stars in 2001. My brother in law is a Lt. for a Southern California police department and my dad was in Law Enforcement (Correctional Officer) for many of the first years of my life.

With that said, I am having a conversation tomorrow with a very high representative of the DFG.. I consider him a friend and would like to get his opinon and some insight as to whats going on up there from him. I'll be happy to report back after the talk with him.. although it may take until Wednesday for me to get on here again.

A few things that are on my mind are:

1. If they already know a law is going to be broken and not by a murderer, bank robber etc.. (someone they want to put away for years) why wouldn't they stop it PRIOR to it happening. Law Enforcement is there to deter crime as much as it is there to catch criminals after the fact. In fact, the best Law Enforcement is the deterring of crimes prior to them taking place? Why wasn't this event stopped the day or week prior to the event... Don't tell me they found out about it half way through the day and were able to bring in the DFG staffers to stop the event!

2. At the AC event - why would a DFG employee jump into an individuals face (name withheld for his sake) for telling anglers to take it easy at the weigh in tubs (no more than 4 to a tub) and accuse them of telling them DFG was on site. First off - I was told this and was not told the part about DFG being on site. Whether he said it or not - who cares, is it illegal to tell someone the DFG is on site?

3. They did basically the same thing at the AC tournament by saying we were not permitted for 2 five fish weigh ins in one day. However, we were not given those rules. AC representatives contacted DFG several times in order to make sure our tournament was according to the rules! DFG once again knew for a week in advance exactly what we had planned and if they had a problem with it shouldn't they have deterred it rather than just show up and create a controversy?

On a side note, there is an individual that lives near the lake that is stirring this all up with the DFG and I plan to personally have a talk with this person in the VERY NEAR FUTURE. This is out of hand and giving our sport a black eye. I am a very friendly and nice guy 99.9% of the time - but, this is absolute crap what is going on up there within our own fishing community and it needs to be stopped!

ABA is a competitor of AC yet I still stand up for ABA in this case. Do I think they did something wrong -- well truthfully, I do not know - I wasn't at the event nor am I privvy to the details of what exactly happened! Do I think the DFG could have alleviated this situation instead of handling it the way they did ABSOLUTELY! Is DFG a bad organization - absolutely not... In fact they are one of the best Law Enforcement departments in our state and should be applauded for so much of their work. Unfortunately, these few instances are giving anglers in our sport a very bad taste for the DFG and I think that is sad because we should be happy the DFG cares so much about our resources!

Just my .02

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:10 pm

Gary, thats some funny shizzle. Rick G.

CATCHEMCARO · Post by **CATCHEMCARO** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:41 pm

That would be a bummer to come in from a great day fishing and have it end that way. I have never heard of such a thing. I would think you would get your entry fee's back do to the misunderstanding. I guess it was still beter then being at work.
Rich

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:41 pm

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BassketCase · Post by **BassketCase** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:48 pm

Thanks for talking to your friends Tom. I am curious to hear what they have to say about the events that took place. I did want to bring up the fact that they (DFG) actually brought pictures from last years investigation that caused the suspension of the tournament director. It seems to me like this was a planned ordeal from the get go.
For those of you that think that I was intending to slam DFG, Please understand that was not my intention. I do appreciate what they do. I was only trying to get an understanding as to why they would handle the situation the way they did.

Oh yes... Dan S.
Thanks for your intriguing and educational "rant". It is nice to see you care so much. If ABA broke a rule then yes they should pay, but I was not at the tournament that caused the suspension, all of my fishies were alive and thriving at this weigh in (or near weigh in) so why should I pay for their mistakes? Just cause some drunk guy crashes his car into an other car doesn't mean the Highway Patrol has the authority to keep you off the road or keep you from throwing a few beers back once in the while.

Gary,
Thanks for the mind trick. If what I heard when my wife talked could be put into writing it would look a lot like that!!!

John Barron · Post by **John Barron** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:06 am

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:14 am

I knew this thread would be hijacked a bunch of ways that was why I said what I said. If you don't like that well that's just too bad.

Hey Tobe, you got a problem with me call me.

This thing started with a pretty self serving rant and then it's been one soap box after another. If we have problems on Clear Lake then it's up to the tournament orgs to get it rectified. I think it's kind of odd that I knew that this TD was persona non grata at Clear Lake by DFG and I don't even fish up there. I was shocked to see him at the DFG Jamboree and frankly, DFG gave this guy enough rope to hang himself and also build upon their case.

How many of you folks contacted DFG or the ABA I'll never know but I'm willing to bet not many of you.

Many of us have known for some time that we have one pen wielding ax man up there that has stirred up the pot real well. He's got his drinking buddies all in an uproar and they come down and try to 'oversee' every tournament that comes into town. He and his retired cronies love to fish the lake every day they can and indeed go out of their way to bash every event that goes on up there. For some reason they believe they'll eventually force you off the lake which we all know just isn't going to happen. My only problem with him and his cronies, of which Dan Stahlman is certainly one, is that they love to beat people down but they don't do anything to build them back up again. And they rarely if ever praise the guys that are doing the job well and running good tournaments. That's whats missing from their crusade and why they'll viewed by many not as the custodians of the lake that they'd like to think they are but as just a bunch of whining old men who don't like to share the resource.

That said, the tournament orgs have got to know that many of them aren't meeting the standards that have been set and known to all for running an event at Clear Lake. But this stuff is simple and if an org doesn't meet the standard they should be penalized and that is what we're seeing here with this action.

I don't know Robert F but to imply that just because the event was halted means that you no longer have to follow some basic release rules, now thats just childish and only compounds the problems. In the end all you do is give DFG more reason to be suspect of how we're using the resource.

As far as all the opinions are concerned, a bunch of you guys can stuff it sideways. Most of ya wouldn't know a good tournament from a bad one and if the majority could discern the difference we wouldn't have nearly as many conflicting tournaments as we do.

The problem in California is that we don't have all that many really good tournament directors. Way to many tournaments are being run by hacks who don't take the job seriously enough to make good decisions when they count most. Way too many orgs out there are filled with guys that got the job cause they raised their arms the quickest rather then those that had great qualifications for the job. A TD's job is pretty easy when things are going well. Heck all you gotta do is make sure you check everyone in , blast 'em off at safe light and then weigh 'em in and give 'em their parting gifts and the day is pretty much done except the reporting, which most fail the grade at also. The good one's do some advance promotions also but the test for a TD comes when something goes wrong. How things get handled when something contrary happens is the real measure of a good TD. The best do things seamlessly and the worst have huge controversies all the time.

This is a classic example of a guy who didn't know all the rules and therefore got so on the bad side of DFG that he was told not run tournaments for a couple years. Think about that. Anyone who's ever run a tournament can tell you that's simply not something that DFG just slaps on to anyone in violation of code. You really have to work hard at it to get that sort of result. There are multiple tournaments each weekend up there and some mid week as well and no one until last year has been banned from running events on the lake.

Regardless of the timing, this is not DFG's fault folks. I for one believe that if you go to court with this action it flat out had to happen this way. DFG has a strong case and allowing this tournament to start only adds to their case.

Did it impact the anglers, yes. Indeed it did. But to try to turn this thing in to a DFG bashing about topics not directly related to this incident is merely trying to get the attention focused away from the true problem and is pretty bush league.

I'll end with one last thought, if you're fishing in tournaments at Clear Lake and you don't know that you're supposed to release your fish 2 miles off shore away from the weigh in location, then you've firmly got you head up your backside and no one can help you with that.

sTony

gt5bass · Post by **gt5bass** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:33 am

sTony wrote:I'll end with one last thought, if you're fishing in tournaments at Clear Lake and you don't know that you're supposed to release your fish 2 miles off shore away from the weigh in location, then you've firmly got you head up your backside and no one can help you with that.

Otherwise known as Cranial Rectal Inversion. I have heard there are some specialists, Cranial Rectal Pleximoligists, around that can put a custom plexiglass plate in your abdomen so you can occassionally see what you are doing

ps. For the last year I have been primarily a So Cal tournament angler but I managed to know of the TD's suspension so I am not shocked by the DFG actions. You play with fire you will get burned! I would have had some serious questions for the TD before I gave him or the organization my money to fish a tourney he was running.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:43 am

I don't know enough to comment on the specific trail, but I do know sTony, so I will give what he says a lot of weight.
I do think that, if the TD knowingly held a tourney he wasn't supposed to, and if I had paid entry fees for that tourney, and then it was canceled after launch, I'd go right to the tournament organization to get my money back, and ask for some kind of accomodation for my trip expenses.
That's only fair.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:57 am

Sadly there is plenty of blame to spread around. Sure the TD didn't give up the region but unless the permits were filed erroneously DFG allowed this person to pull the permits, which is where this drama could have ended, and the ABA didn't see fit to replace this person as TD of the region after last year's debacle.

Now I would suspect DFG will be looking for a more long term or possibly permanent ban for this TD but even that rings a little hollow. Is he banned from running tournaments on Clear Lake, in that region or through out the state?

sTony

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:27 am

I can see it's waaaay complicated.
Man, I'm glad I'm not a TD!

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:38 am

Nice job George B. I hope you are proud of yourself.

jackpot · Post by **jackpot** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:51 am

There is an article in the Record Bee today about the incident. I thought it was interesting that the TD and ABA had agreed to use a different TD for tournies at Clear Lake thru 2007. It says the permit was pulled for a different TD . On a different note I would be curious to hear how much money anyone will recover for expenses and damages.I know of very few anglers who make their living fishing team events, I think that means it becomes a hobby and everybody fished all day maybe if they were not allowed to launch and fish they would have a claim for expenses.

drew · Post by **drew** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:15 am

It seems most of the people who have posted are in agreement. The TD made several bad decisions and was in the wrong as far as the law is concerned. The TDs negligence caused harm to the anglers. The DFG did their job, but maybe they could have gone about it in different way that might have prevented or minimized the loss that the anglers had incurred. In the end it does seem that the anglers were the victims.

DanIsaac · Post by **DanIsaac** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:18 am

Tony, your dead on! You know I rarely express an opinion or jump in on these discussions, but this time I have to chime in!

Bottom line, be it ABA, Anglers Choice, WON Bass, 100% Bass.
You want to make money off the resourse, then you have a responsibilty to go over and above to protect the resource!
PERIOD end of story.

Now, some organizations will do better than others, but none in my opinion, go the extra mile to insure the event doesn't have a negative impact on the resource. Take B.A.S.S. and FLW out of the
equation. I've witnessed too many times, "take your fish out to the 5 bouy and release them" only to see half the boats dump em' half way or even right in the docks. Nobody there to watch or insure it's being done.

Then there's Oroville or Shasta. How many times have I seen floaters all over after a tournament? Too many. Only because anglers don't take the time to learn the proper way to pop a fish,
and the tournament organizations don't care enough to have someone there all of the time to insure it's done.

Oh, there's plenty of blame to go around, but none of it is warranted of being directed at DFG in this case!
Even though they allowed the permints to be pulled in the first place. They did their job and followed up ....... SURPRISE!

The real issue here is this, you release stressed fish in 75 degree, shallow water, and they will sufocate. That's their concern, and it is warranted, but personally, I would like to know why DFG in all their wisdom allows tournaments to be held out of the north end of the lake during the summer anyway? Why don't they limit summer tournaments to Konocti Harbor south in the summer, problem solved?

My .02 cents

Dan Isaac

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