What is difference between Muskrat & Otters.

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:08 pm

When I was a kid growing up in the Delta we called em muskrats still do today. But now I am really not sure what they are?
dose any one know for sure ?

Are Muskrats, muskrats? and Otters, otters ? or are they the same?

If Muskrats are indeed Otters, it kind of bums me out thinking about what we use to do to em thinking they were varmets and good for nothing at the time.

Now River Rats as long as your arm, dancing on your head while i was snooping around in an old derileck boat i do know the difference about. Man it gives me the whillies ever time I think of it

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:12 pm

They are definitely different animals.......

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:14 pm

Definatly different critters.... muskrats or river rats are much smaller.. say a couple pounds at most... the almost look like a miniature sea otter with a skinny rat tail.. River Otters are what we got in the Delta... there big ole suckers.. 30 lbs or more.. I've seen some that are probably 4 feet long or more..If ya want Sea Otters got to monterey.... Now don't ferget we got a lot of beavers out there on the Delta too and occasionally you'll see a feret running along the rocks

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:42 pm

So yer saying that the river rat and the musk rat are the same critter???????

So that being the case the thing dancing on my head in that old boat was a river rat, AKA. Muskrat ??????

I have see beaver and river otters as well even had a weasel as a pet once (different story)

Layed on my back in the kelp and feed squid to the otters in Monteray Bay. (otter's got's lots of Sharp Teeth) They can pull a regulator out of your mouth in a flash

A beaver slapping his tail next to your boat on a foggy morning will deffently wake you up QUICK

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:16 pm

Saw my first beaver on the Delta the last time I was up there with Joe Kopp..The sucker was huge..I have seen lots of otters up there and an occasional mink, but I never saw any ferrets or muskrats yet..Lots of creatures out there swimming in the water..

mac

JustinD · Post by **JustinD** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:19 am

We have many different creatures running around the river....River otters (15lbs.+ and live in families), Minks and ferrets, Muskarats, River Rats (can be 10 lbs.), Nutra (big South American Water Rodent) to name just a few. Oh yea we even get sea lions up this way also. In fact I saw 3 this last weekend most likely chasing strippers up the river. One was almost to Coney island where I watched him eat 3 or 4 catfish just leaving the heads. Spend enough time on the river and the difference becomes appearant. We even have randon non-native fish. The other day I caught a Sac. River Pike. The thing was big and ugly and very aggressive. It followed my spook almost like it was a shark before finally inhaling the bait. I have also caught Squawfish and something else that I have no clue to what it is. The delta is an amazing place for wildlife viewing and with fall fast approching more and more animals are showing themselves.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:14 am

Here are some photos to help you out:

A river otter

A muskrat

A mink

A ferret

Hope this helps,

sTony

Scott D. · Post by **Scott D.** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:20 am

Those pics are great Tony, but I think someone mentioned a beaver too. Perhaps you should put a picture of a beaver up too!!!

I've seen lots of 'em on the Delta, particularly around Lost Isle!!!!

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:33 am

Thanks sTony photographs help a bunch. The ferret is what we use to call a weasel. there kind of neat.

Mine use to pop out of my shirt, give the girls a scare, what a ice breaker at a party

he loved to ride around in my pocket on my shirt. miss the little varmet. he died of old age at 5.

The picture of the muskrat is a little vague got any more?

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:38 am

Blue_R70 · Post by **Blue_R70** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:41 am

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:29 pm

Some people just cant keep a secret.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:33 pm

Otters are meat eaters. I see them hunting for fish in the shallows quite often.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:39 pm

never what I knew to be a ferret, it seams to me that we used to see weasels there when I was a kid but have not seen one now for maybe 40 years.

Jim

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:52 pm

After looking at the photo's and doing a little internet search ... I'm thinking the critters I thought were Ferrets were probably Minks..kinda similar little guys.....

I did see something else (only once) kinda simialr in size and shape to the Mink but it was a white/grey in color.. had big bug eyes and larger ears... looked like a nocturnal critter,, but I still have no idea what it was.. anyone have any ideas

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:32 pm

Could have been an ermine, not native but some may have escaped from a "fur farm"..The ermines winter coat is much as you have described, sometimes they are called stoats..

mac

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:52 pm

Another way to identify the difference. Otters are social animals and run in families. You'll usually see a number of them at the same time. Also, unlike Beaver and Muskrats, they have a short, smooth coat and a broad tail, but not as wide as a beaver. Ferrets and Mink look similar, but Otters are much bigger.

Sacto John · Post by **Sacto John** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:43 pm

Big Daddy did you see a possum?

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:49 pm

No... I've had several encounters with those mean little buggers,, definately not a possum....

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:48 pm

mac (Doyle McEwen) wrote:Could have been an ermine, not native but some may have escaped from a "fur farm"..The ermines winter coat is much as you have described, sometimes they are called stoats..

mac

There are Ermines (stoats) also Mink here in the Delta. When John Mass had the Veal Tract Pheseant club in the early seventyies he was fooling around with breeding em for proffet, he din't realize how good the little suckers were at escaping, and quite a few if not most got out of the pens befor he caught on to what was happining.

They have adaped well over the years and what you see today are the decendences of the originals. Most are on Holland tract slough just down from the site of his farm.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:55 pm

BEAVER? I'm really surprised no-one went there.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:33 pm

Im pretty sure that the white one was a weasel. They had a black tip at their tail

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:01 pm

BEAVER? I'm really surprised no-one went there.

The Beaver's sighted around Lost Isle are dangerous.... often resulting in drunken brawls and penicillin shots...

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:26 pm

Big Daddy: there are no ferrets in California. The pic sTony posted is a black footed ferret, highly endangered, and lives only in Wyoming, South Dakota, Montana, and Arizona (only in a few very small areas in each of those states). There are a ton of mink at the Delta and Clear Lake too. Weasels are everywhere, but you rarely see them, and they are much smaller than a mink.

And I cant remember who said it but there are no nutria in California either.

Muskrats are one of the coolest critters I know of. Dont ask me why but I just really dig those things.

And, can somebody please explain to me what the heck a river rat is? Ive heard people say this since I was young. Its obviously slang for something, but nobody really knows what. And there is no way in hell there is a rat that weighs 10 pounds.

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:14 am

Any rat can swim, I think river rat came about because it was some kind of rodent but Dad or whoevever didn't know what it was.

And if it swam in the river, it must be a river rat.

The other kind of river rat, lives on a junkie boat in Fisherman's cut, or just close enough to a bar, so he can go back and forth in a dingy to obtain provisions.

Another thing I have never figured out, why these guys wear a little captains hat? Tattoos and grey beards optional. They are going for the Captain Mitch look?

A.G.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:21 am

Jim Conlow Sr. wrote:Im pretty sure that the white one was a weasel. They had a black tip at their tail

The white weasel and brown weasel is the same animal. The weasel's name is changed to Ermine in winter (accurately or not by lay people) in the northern regions where it sheds its brown coat and becomes white to camolflauge it in the snow. Its real name is the Stoat.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:35 am

I always thought that they were either Cooch'es role models or maybe it is vice versa. Har

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:24 am

Jim Conlow Sr. wrote:I always thought that they were either Cooch'es role models or maybe it is vice versa. Har

Jim I think you might have Cooche mix up with another common animal we have in our Delta.

That would be known as ( Racoon) Nocturnal animal, known to hiss and talk to its self, eats dead fish, good with its hands, likes to make a mess who spends countless hours wandering the Delta and has strange mating habits

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:03 pm

WE USED TO TRAP MUSKRAT BACK IN THE 50'S AND EARLY 60'S UP AT BURNEY HAT CREEK AREA. IF I REMEMBER THEY ARE MORE FURIER THAN THE OTTER AND SMALLER IN SIZE WITH SHORTER TAIL.

JIGS

brambo0311 · Post by **brambo0311** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:20 pm

Up in Tahoe we have a critter called a hory marmont, but they are only usually found above 7000 feet. I read a report about how only a few were left. Those few and a few friends must live along highway 50 near echo summit.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:27 pm

They (marmonts) are in Yellowstone and Glacier too. They darn near eat outa your hand. But I was afraid I might not get the hand back. But they are a land rodent and not in the same family as beaver, otter etc.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:28 pm

You are probably right except that I have always believed absolutely every word ever spoken by Cooch and I have with my own ears heard him refer to himself as a delta rat.
But of course racoons can be very devious. And I think they always take second place to otters in the fishing compitition.

GETTIN BIT · Post by **GETTIN BIT** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:02 pm

Steve wrote:Big Daddy: there are no ferrets in California. .

There are ferrets in California, they're just in cages inside people's houses. They can be bought in Reno.

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm

I think river rat is just slang name for a Muskrat... (or Cooch, or Bobby or Sapp, Dee etc...) at least that's what I'd always assumed when I heard soemone say river rat..

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:07 pm

Gettin Bit:

You knew what I meant. We are talkin wild animals. And if Im not mistaken it is illegal to own a domesticated ferret in California.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:52 pm

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER wrote:After looking at the photo's and doing a little internet search ... I'm thinking the critters I thought were Ferrets were probably Minks..kinda similar little guys.....

I did see something else (only once) kinda simialr in size and shape to the Mink but it was a white/grey in color.. had big bug eyes and larger ears... looked like a nocturnal critter,, but I still have no idea what it was.. anyone have any ideas

What you saw could have been a Marten, very similar to mink, ferrets etc.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... s&ei=UTF-8

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:21 pm

Otters taste like Chicken!!

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:08 pm

Unless Big Daddy was fishing in the Sierras, he didnt see an American Marten. I dont know why I even get involved in these discussions, likely cause Im bored.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:36 am

They are afraid they will get loose and multiply, and be a danger to indigenous animals

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:53 am

Jim Conlow Sr. wrote:They are afraid they will get loose and multiply, and be a danger to indigenous animals

That;s true about the Ferret, Most states allow em and I suppose you can buy em in Reno.

But about running wild and harming the eco-system, I think is a little far fetched, a few years ago there were horror stories printed about em attacking babies, it was true but it was because they were running loose in the house with out suppervision, sort of like forgetting you 6 month old child sitting alone in the car seat while you go into a store to buy somthing on a hot day.

Its ok to own pit bulls but you cant have a ferret in our state, try to figure that one out? Can you say LOBBYEST or PAYED POLITICAL HIT MAN. no wonder a lot of this goes underground.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:10 pm

Ken C. wrote:Otters taste like Chicken!!

I think they taste like boat carpet, cuz that's what they chewed up on my boat.

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:16 pm

Greg_Cornish wrote:
Ken C. wrote:Otters taste like Chicken!!
I think they taste like boat carpet, cuz that's what they chewed up on my boat.

makes me wonder. What are ya doing Greg. to have em chewing on yer carpet, cause there meat eaters

bruizer343 · Post by **bruizer343** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:51 pm

I have seen something a bit smaller than the minks or otters here in the delta. Maybe its just a small or young version of the above animals. A section in my cove gets logjammed with debris in the winter, I have seen beavers as big as a good sized dog.

I have also seen mice and rats swimming as well.

JR. Potter · Post by **JR. Potter** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:23 pm

Me and my friend were fishing boat docks just walking the bank and saw a mole trying to swim around. We couldn't figure out what it was until it got a little bit closer to the bank. Poor thing couldn't swim that well and the current was moving pretty good. Don't know if he made it.

BassTraveler · Post by **BassTraveler** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:27 am

Hey Guy,
Muskrat love was sung by Captian and Tennelle, and the Otters were a R&B Group in Motown

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:06 am

BassTraveler wrote:Hey Guy,
Muskrat love was sung by Captian and Tennelle, and the Otters were a R&B Group in Motown

Muskrat Love? I'm so embarrassed, all these years I've been singing Mustache Love.

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:27 am

BassTraveler wrote:Hey Guy,
Muskrat love was sung by Captian and Tennelle, and the Otters were a R&B Group in Motown

DAM !!!!!! BassTravler, Now I got that stupid song "MuskRat Love"
rattling around in my head. Thanks a heap man, hope yer boat sinks. HAR HAR HAR

Sacto John · Post by **Sacto John** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:37 am

Muskrat Love is also the name of my boat.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:45 am

I really dont know a lot about ferrets except what you kind of pickup casually.
I do know that some of the fish that are not native to our ecosystem are outlawed for good reason.

Someone may have felt that the ferrets fall somewhat into that same kind of category.

I can tell you for sure that if a Mexican Chihuahua was the size of a pitbull I wouldnt want to be in the same state with him

Jim

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