braid and swimbaits.........

aNNieNsaLTIE · Post by **aNNieNsaLTIE** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:25 am

what knot are you using.......polamar knot? or should i use a leader?
going to try tieing direct to my shell cracker and kongs....going to use 65lb braid i hope that is enough!

saLTIE-

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:39 am

Just don't backlash with the braid. No stretch so it can snap on ya.

I use 25lbs mono on all my swimbaits. Never had one break off on a cast and I have backlashed many a time!

Ally03 200xs · Post by **Ally03 200xs** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:01 am

I use a polamor knot with my Powerpro when using the Shellcracker. I use braid because I can't cast very accurate in the tules and braid makes it easy to pull out.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:43 am

Polamar!!

Sacto John · Post by **Sacto John** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:03 am

Berkley braid knot. I had so many problems with knot breakage that I stopped using braid altogether, then I discovered this knot.

I agree with the poster above and would not use braid on swimbaits. 25 pound mono works great and can be more forgiving if you backlash.

Jim Scarlett · Post by **Jim Scarlett** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:39 am

Briad is a no-no with me, I prefer flourocarbon, 20 # in clear lakes and 25 # in dingy water that have tules or docks. A special swim bait rod built for the bait is preferred because of the tip action and lenght.

ash · Post by **ash** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:30 am

I use a carefully tied Double Triline knot and leave about 1/8-1/4" tag line. I have been burnt on the palomar knot for slipping.

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:36 am

I am a braid hater LOL! You should ask Fish Chris he is a braid/swimbait dude also LOL! For me Mono has not let me down, why change.

Don.

schreecher2 · Post by **schreecher2** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:38 am

The key to using braid for the swimbaits is to tie the polimar knot, and instead of running the loop thru once when you tie the overhand knot, try running it thru 2 times. This works well....give it a try.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:50 am

Jim Scarlett wrote:Briad is a no-no with me, I prefer flourocarbon, 20 # in clear lakes and 25 # in dingy water that have tules or docks. A special swim bait rod built for the bait is preferred because of the tip action and lenght.

I too do not use braid but instead 20 to 25 pound floro!

big bass beckstrom · Post by **big bass beckstrom** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:34 pm

I usually use braid with my swimbaits especially on the delta and clear lake. I havent had any problems with snapping the line on casts, and i use an improved clinch with a little super glue on the knot.

tight lines,
elliott

707 basser · Post by **707 basser** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:37 am

Clinch knot on braid?? Had very little success with that. be careful they come apart way easier than mono. palomar only on braid. and once you've used every braid on the market, power pro will be the choice. The others just plain out suk. J.

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:40 am

bassindon69 wrote:I am a braid hater LOL! You should ask Fish Chris he is a braid/swimbait dude also LOL! For me Mono has not let me down, why change.

Don.

I'm pretty sure fish Chris uses spinning gear though.

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:21 am

Why ?

So you can actually "feel" what the fish is doing, just before, then after you hook them, and then all the way to the boat !

If you don't use braid, you don't really know what "it feels like" to stick, and fight a fish !

Rubberband (mono), or braid (fishing line).... the choice is yours

Peace,
Fish

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:27 am

Do you fish big baits on a baitcasting set-up?

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:31 am

Hey saLTIE, I use 50 lb braid, with a 3 or 4 foot leader of 25 or 30 lb Seaguar Fluorocarbon, or Maxima Ultra Green leader material.

The mono leader will give you:
1) better abrasion resiatance over the teeth of a monster bass
2) a bit of a shock absorber when used in conjuction with a braided main line
3) (for what it's worth) it's less visible to the fish, than your braided mainline.

I use a bloodknot to attach my mono leader to my braided mainline, and an improved clinch to attach my mono leader to my swimbait.

In 10 years of throwing swimbaits, I have only broke off 4 of them. Two of these were to snags which I could not get out of, and the other two were due to getting my line loop around a guide, or part of my reel on hard a cast.

The "important" thing is, I've never broke off a fish of any size, while throwing a swimbait.

I "never" get backlashes, because I'm the oddball who uses spinning gear for swimbaits

Works for me though.

Peace,
Fish

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:35 am

Anything Chris says about using braid and swimbaits does not apply to the rest of us. The dynamics are totally different because he uses a spinning rod. Hes the only person I know that uses big baits and a spinning rod.

The utility and advantage to using braid with a baitcaster and a large swim bait is bait specific, IMHO.

drew · Post by **drew** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:55 am

I use either a uni-knot with the line looped through five times or a palomar. I do not recommend a leader with braid. The extra knot and the concentration of force on the leader makes it a liability. I use braid if there is any vegetation in the vicinity of where I'm fishing. When its open water I prefer mono or FC in 17-25# range depending on the size of the bait. Everyone has their own opinion, so I recommend using what seems practical and do some testing on your own.

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:04 pm

Steve wrote:Anything Chris says about using braid and swimbaits does not apply to the rest of us. The dynamics are totally different because he uses a spinning rod.

Exactly. Mono may be crap to him but it's working just fine for the majority of guys throwing big swimbaits.

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:36 am

ya' know buddy, I've actually talked with a good number of guys who use braid on baitcasters and have no major problems. I think these guys would do perfectly fine throwing big baits with braid on a baitcaster, as well.
It wouldn't matter if "I" had problems with braid on a baitcaster, because I totally suck with a baitcaster in the first place.
In any case, if it came right down to the point where a guy had to use spinning gear, to be able to use braided line effectively, then, personally speaking, >EVEN IF< I were able to use baitcasters as well as I do spinning reels, I'd choose spinning gear, just so I could gain all of the HUGE benefits of braid.... Like feeling the fish, when I hook, and fight them. And I realize that some guys will read this and think, "I can feel them just fine on mono"..... But then if 'all a guy ever drove' was a stock Ford Pinto, he might think it was pretty fast too

Peace,
Fish

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:02 am

There is this word called "Preference". It means that everyone doesn't have to have the same opinion. You heard of it?

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:43 am

I think that's obvious.

Peace,
Fish

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:26 am

JUST DON'T DO IT. ITS THAT SIMPLE, SAVE YOURSELF ALOT OF HEADACHES AND MONEY,,,,USE TRILENE 20LB BIG GAME GREEN.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:26 am

JUST DON'T DO IT. ITS THAT SIMPLE, SAVE YOURSELF ALOT OF HEADACHES AND MONEY,,,,USE TRILENE 20LB BIG GAME GREEN.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:26 am

JUST DON'T DO IT. ITS THAT SIMPLE, SAVE YOURSELF ALOT OF HEADACHES AND MONEY,,,,USE TRILENE 20LB BIG GAME GREEN.

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:43 am

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:20 am

Untill you use a Calcutta with braid, Talk to the hand. You gota be the only guy using a spinning reel. Guess we are all just wrong. We don't know what we are doing. I got lucky the last two years, Yea...... thats it.

Don.

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:48 am

I love braid and use it for a lot of things including big ole pencil poppers for stripers... but it's 25lb big game mono on all my swimbaits... with mission fish being the only braid exception..... mission fish got a big worm hook and you need "no stretch" to get a solid hook set on a long cast. Haven't broke one off yet and I've never had any problem "feeling" a big dog at the end of my rubber band....

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Come on Don, unless you were born left handed, and forced to be right handed, you wouldn't have any idea what its like to try to use a baitcaster. I'm just flat out lame with one. But I'll say it again, their's nothing wrong with baitcasters..... unless your forced to use rubberband, to be able fish with one. Some guys are apparently not.

And if my system is so bad, can you just imagine how many big ones I'd have caught, if I had been using mono, and if I could ever learn how to use a bait caster ???

LOL

Peace,
Fish

PS, To anybody who doesn't know this, Don and I are actually buddies, and our typical phone greeting is, "Mono sucks ! ..... Not as bad as braid" !!!

LOL

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:41 pm

Hey Big Daddy, I have heard from a lot of guys, who, like yourself, go back and forth between braid and mono, and this kind of perplexes me. Braid and mono are just such different animals, I don't see how a guy could ever be used to "both" at the same time ? I mean, when I check my drag (litterally every other cast.... I know this is probably a personal issue

and swing on a bite, I can't imagine having to stop for even 1/10th of a second to remember.... is this mono, or braid ? For me (not for you ?) this is all second nature. I check my drag without thinking.... I swing on a fish, without thinking. I play a fish, without thinking. It's just all automatic. No adjustments neccessary to go from a very stretchy line, to a virtually zero-stretch line.

Hmmmm,
Fish

Sacto John · Post by **Sacto John** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:50 pm

Fish Chris wrote:Hey Big Daddy, I have heard from a lot of guys, who, like yourself, go back and forth between braid and mono, and this kind of perplexes me. Braid and mono are just such different animals, I don't see how a guy could ever be used to "both" at the same time ?

Chris to me braid is like any other piece of my fishing arsenal, a tool that has its specific uses. I used to hate braid and not use it at all, because of too many break offs for unknown reasons (knot breaks and nicks in the line probable caused the majority of them) Over the last year or so have retried braid, mainly because of how many guys I know who use it, in specific situations, with great success.

I experimented and have found that for top water baits, especially walking baits and frogs, the no stretch and floating qualities of braid are great. It is easier to walk the dog over long distances and hook up with bass because of the lack of stretch. I also have found that you cannot beat braid when cranking rattle baits in the Delta weeds. The ability to pop the baits free from the weeds, again because of lack of stretch makes it superior to mono. With both of the methods I mentioned above I use glass or composite rods to serve as a shock absorber.

I have also retried braid in other situations, flipping, casting jigs on lakes, and swimbaits, and had less than positive results. With flipping I was experiencing break offs again, mainly on hook sets. I realize I could learn to calm down on my hook sets but I have good results with floro with about the same feel so why change. With casting jigs on the lakes the lack of abrasion resistance made it a no brainer to continue to use floro. On swimbaits, the fact that I only have two specific swimbait rods and with those I fish swimbaits from the top to the bottom of the water column, I choose to use line that works in all those situations, mono. I could see using braid on wake baits but again I do not want to have a rod dedicated just to wake baits. On top of this the last time I did spool my swimbait rod with braid I got a back lash that I know I would have bee able to get out if I was using mono, but being that it was braid that rod sat on the deck the rest of the day. I am not willing to tie a leader onto my braid because that takes up more of my time on the water then I am willing to give up, as you know you can't get bit when your bait is not in the water.

As you can see I use mono, floro, and braid in my arsenal. We as anglers have many tools available to us, from different types of lines to quality graphite and glass rods. To become attached to just one type of tool (line, rod, bait) and not experiment and utilize the others is, in my opinion, far to limiting and detrimental to becoming a complete angler.

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:37 pm

What's this drag thing yer talking about? Is that the little star us delta guys crank down as tight as we can until it doesn't move

I like your style, Ignorance is bliss, I try not to think any more than I have too either:D

Now in no way am I a trophy hunter like you... heck I'm still happy with anything over 5lbs..... but what I can say is I've never thought twice about switching between mono, to flouro, to braid. It's just second nature... I regularly employ many different techniques. For instance, my hook set punching is different than my hookset ripping, which is different from drop shottin on spinning gear which is different than...so on and so on.... I stay consistant with which line type I use for a specific technique and the hookset just follows..

Are you telling me you don't change your set from when tossin huds to when you switch to ultra light gear?

We'll just agree to disagree

kinda funny how stubburn we all get about this line topic that rears it's head every few weeks

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:37 pm

All I can say John, is that I used mono for nearly 30 years (I'd say that I gave mono all the chance in the world)..... but switching completely over to braid for all of my multi-species fishing just made "everything" better.

The only exceptions I have found after using braid for 14 years, is for Crappie fishing; I have found 4 lb fluoro-carbon to get bit a lot more {which I have never understood, as even when I was trying micro-braid for them, I used a 6 ft fluorocarbon leader ???}

That, and if your into night fishing with black lights, true braided spectra just doesn't flouresce..... even the bright yellow stuff is not actually 'fluorescent'.

Finally, if you, or anybody else, are experiencing regular break offs with braid, used for any fishing situation, with any species, in any conditions, you just haven't mastered braided line.

But the good news is, if a guy with my whacked out hand-eye coordination can get dialed in with braided line, "ANYBODY CAN" !

Peace,
Fish

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:02 pm

Hey Big Daddy, that drag thingy you mentioned can actually be an amazing tool when used with braided line !

Here's what I mean; With mono, your line will stretch, and stretch, and stretch, and... {okay, you get the point} all the while energy is building up in the line. Finally the drag 'breaks free', and all of that energy is released in the form of a surge. A top quality drag system will not create as much surge as a crappy / old / sticky one..... but all mono creates some amount of surge, when a drag finally breaks free. {if your drag 'never feels the need to break free', you might need to try Sturgeon, or Stingray fishing or something

}

On the other hand, with braided line, even a crappy / old / sticky drag will perform WAY better. So, purposely running a lighter drag is actually a very "nice feeling" thing to do.... not to mention prudent.

Big Daddy, you might not be out there specifically chasing trophys, but ANYBODY can hook a monster, at any given time ! Using mono with a cranked down drag might have gotten you by until now, but all of that line stretch can only help you to a point..... and that is "the breaking point".
Whether my big fish run 4 feet, or 40, the pressure on my line remains very consistent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But anyway yes, it is > kinda funny how stubburn we all get about this line topic that rears it's head every few weeks

Great fishing to all of you guys

Peace,
Fish

bruizer343 · Post by **bruizer343** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:54 am

I'm more blown away that chris dosn't employ all types of reels in his passionate pursuit of fishing glory. I'd say he is the only guy I have read about that chooses to limt himself, by not using or rather learning to operate a baitcaster. Unless you have clubed hands, I cant see how a bit of practice and patience dosnt win in your self admitted stubbornness. When I have trouble operating a given device or tool, it makes me mad. I then make a point to learn it, wether I need it daily or just need the knowledge stored in my tool box.

I can't imagine flippin/pitching heavy delta cover with a friggin spinning set up, even if its a xtra-heavy cod stick.

good fishng, catching and lying.

B343

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:40 am

Hey bruizer, unless a guy was born left handed, and forced to be right handed, like I was, you, nor anyone else, could possibly understand. I probably couldn't even use a spinning reel if I hadn't started at the age of 3, and fished my entire life.

Nothing I do with my hands comes naturally. I honestly can't even sign my name without really thinking about it..... and if I sign it 3 times, it will be different all 3 times.... and if I sign it 5 times, I will get serious writers cramp ! Honestly.
I guess a spinning reel is maybe a close as it gets, for something (which requires hand-eye coordination) to feel natural to me.... that, and driving I guess.

So, the practice your talking about with a bait-caster, is something I've been doing my whole life with a spinning reel, just to become the "decent", albeit, inconsistent caster I am today.

Does this give you a better idea of where I'm coming from ?

Peace,
Fish

PS, But as a matter of fact, I'm getting ready to step out the door after Sturgies, and I'm bringing two rods.... Both baitcasters !!! How can this be !?!?..... Uh well, because I have devised a system in which casting is not required

Jim Scarlett · Post by **Jim Scarlett** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:37 pm

Chris, I normally don't get back and say nice things to some guys, but I agree with you on this one. (For what it's worth)

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