2008 FLW Series -- coangler practice rule change

[Guest]

This weekend I received a letter from FLW as the top 100 from the 2007 FLW Series received proirity entry into the 2008 FLW Series events. Priority entry for the 2008 events allows anglers to sign up before Oct 23 for their deposit which feels as though FLW values my participation. I'm currently in 37th place and 20 points out of the top 30. I figure if I can finish in the top 70 or less at Clear Lake I can make the top 30 East vs West fish off.

In the brochure I read the 2008 rules and noticed that it specifically states that coanglers must practice only with a Pro. I'm considering signing up for all 4 events again, however I don't know if I like the stipulation that coanglers can't practice out of their own boat or with another coanglers boat.

From a coangler's perspective I've tried to find a practice partner this year and found it very difficult. Mark Lassange was nice enough to open his back seat for Havasu, but the delta I practiced out of my boat, Columbia River couldn't find anyone with an open back seat and Clear Lake I've yet to find someone to practice with.

This wasn't such a big issue when I was living in the SF Bay Area (Pleasanton, CA) as I knew quite a number of people who were fishing these events. Now that I'm in Scottsdale, AZ I found it's been even more difficult as I haven't met as many people fishing at this level.

What's your thoughts on this rule change? How many Pro's fishing these events prefer to prefish by themselves? How many are willing to open a back seat for a coangler for practice? Should we (the coanglers) stand around the launch ramp or tackle store with a cardboard sign like a day worker outside Home Depot just to get a couple of days practice for an event like this?

Mind you I'm not bashing FLW in any way and I support their organization 100%. Currently the 2008 rules are not posted on the website so I don't have the ability to provide a link at this time. I'm just wondering how this rule change will play out for coanglers wishing to fish these events.

Also one additional item I noticed wa that the lake goes off limits the day of the tournament meeting rather than being able to fish until 2:00pm that day.

[Smileee]

Hey, Vince:

Have U retired to Scottsdale, AZ ? If, so, maybe we can get together for a round of golf. Mind, you, I'm only a beginner. I will be at my daughter's house in Gilbert the week of 10/18 thru 10/26.

Smileee

[RipnRog]

Hey Vince that is a weird rule change. I feel for you. I wonder why they made this rule change? This will be interesting to see how it pans out. I would think that during your tournaments this year you made some friends and that it should not be to hard to get some pre fishing in with some of your previous boaters.

[Guest]

Now that I'm home from work here's the exact wording for Rule 4 pertaining to Off-limits, Practice, Competition

4. OFF-LIMITS, PRACTICE, COMPETITION

Tournament waters will go off-limits to all contestants 11 days prior to the first practice day in all qualifying events. Contestants, including those on the waiting list and late entries, may not enter tournament waters to fish, test equipments, sightsee, etc., during the off-limits period. Flights over tournament waters are not permitted during the off-limits period. During the off-limits period, practice and competition days, contestants may not solicit and/or receive fishing information from anyone except confirmed tournament anglers (anglers on the waiting list are not confirmed tournament anglers) and other publicly available information. The purchasing of, or bartering for, information or the hiring of services (including fly-overs) will not be permitted after the start of the off-limits. The sharing of tournament winnings in exchange for fishing information is strictly prohibited. Tournament waters will reopen for practice four days (Friday through Monday) prior to registration day. Pros may practice alone, with another competitor, with members of their immediate family (mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/grandchild or spouse) or with approved sponsor representatives who have also observed the off-limits period and procedures or with approved media representatives. Co-anglers may practice only with confirmed pros. (With the consent of the pro, co-anglers can be joined by a member of their immediate family as defined above). Tournament waters will be closed to all contestants on Tuesday (registration day) prior to the first day of competition. Anglers in the top-10 cust (Day 4) may not solicit or receive fishing information from anyone except other top-10 anglers.[/quote]

[Ringer]

I can't imagine any logical explanation for this unless it is to give pros the run of the lake without having a bunch of ams out there running their spots. Vince, I live in Scottsdale as well and am going to try to fish one FLW as an am next year to see what it is like. I was thinking about towing the boat but guess there is no need for that now. Let us know what you find out.

[Colebass]

How are you liking Arizona? I just passed up a chance to relocate for work there, to damn hot!

DC

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

I hate to say this, but this just might be an indication of how FLW feels about co-anglers..In truth it probably isn't that much different than any tournament organization..The co's are where they make their money on any individual tournament..I have yet to see a tournament organization that advertised paying 100% to the co-anglers, nor are you ever going to see one..These various orginizations need the co's to foot their bill..The PRO"s need them to keep each other reasonably honest (now that is a real shame)..Who takes it up the whazoo on tournament day, for sure it isn't the "PRO's"..Until the various tournament trails are willing to pay for observers to prevent cheating we are stuck with what we have..I like the idea of co-anglers and I think most pro-anglers do also..But I also think the entire scenario needs to be looked at, and not just to the "pros" benefit..

mac

[Dewayne]

Call FLW. It could be just the wording and not the intent. I know in the past I drew a co-angler who had practiced with a boater who was on the waiting list. The boater did not make it into the tournament and the co-angler then had free run of the water they had pre-fished. No, we did not use the water. The rule could possibly be more about making sure co-anglers are not fishing with people on the waiting list. AFter all, it is in FLWs best interest to have co-anglers owning and driving Rangers.

On one of your other questions. I am one who prefers to pre-fish alone or with 2-3 co-anglers who I have complete trust in. I have seen these guys draw someone who is no where near fish and never say a word as the person drove by the fish. I used to pre-fish with anyone who asked, but a few co-anglers who chose to use my spots during the tournament ended that.

I had one tournament where a practice partner whom I knew pretty well swore up and down that he would not use my spots or share what I was doing. One great isolated spot I had found was covered the entire first day. When I pulled off the water after dayn one the co-angler told me he was leading the tournament off of the spot. He had told his boater about it before they even blased off and when I ran past it to hit another spot first they moved in. This costed me a lot of money. His story was that he assumed I did not want to fish the spot since I did not go there first. There have been others times, some where you just wonder and other like this where the person tells you so you know for sure.

Like many, I have had to quit taking people I do not 100% trust out. Don't ask, because the answer is no, there is way more hard work that can be lost than the small gain of some gas money and a second rod. Let's hope that the way the rules sounds is not what is intended.

PS - Starting pre-fish on Friday and having a down day at the lake means I will be fishing less National Guard events next year. This takes up another 4 days of vacation a year.

[crawdaddy]

Maybe with the field sizes they are getting they are trying to keep the lake from getting beaten up too much. If I were the cities that paid to have them come I would be upset with the rule. More boats means more revenue in fuel and extras. Who knows. As Dewanye said it would probably be best to ask FLW directly.

[Robert F]

I too am not happy with a down day and starting practice one day earlier. Establish a trusting relationship with a practice pro. Looks like it is the only way to get some practice time. The new rule does suck because there will be more pros than Dewayne fishing alone that have been burned by crappy Co's. Too bad. If I had my preference, FLW would assign practice pairings. It is only fair that they allow Co's comparable time on the water. I would prefer to fish with different Pros in practice. That would give me the chance to fish with different patterns.

[Rich hamilton]

great point, I always forget that perspective until it bites you. RR

[skandy]

This may be a matter of interpretation, but it does not specifically indicate that the co-angler can not pre-fish by themselves. My guess is that the intent of the rule is to prevent co-anglers from fishing with persons not signed up for the event, such as a guide or local pro.

[Guest]

I will email Chris Jones and see what he says regarding this rule. Thanks.

[MikeD]

http://bassfan.com/news_article.asp?id=2543

[Cooch]

who have fished FLW over the years, they make their rules purty clear, and this one:

Co-anglers may practice only with confirmed pros.

as it has been presented to us here, is purty damn clear. Personally, I think this is a bad rule. With the considered entry fee that the Co-Anglers pay, and the fact they are fishing for their own fish and purse, they should be allowed to practice on their own, with another Co-angler, family or confirmed Pro. As written, and there have been many wording changes to that rule fer next year by the way, it's clear, Co-Anglers can only practice with pros confrimed in the event.

I say, flood FLW and Chris with calls and e-mails, voice yer opinion and git it straight from the source. To quote a famous announcer.....

this is an OUTRAGE!

HAR!

[Guest]

Cooch,

I agree this doesn't seem to level the playing field especially with the $700 entry fee per event with no shared weight. I sent an email to Chris Jones asking for clarification and have not heard back yet. If we're interpreting the rule correctly then I would prefer (as a coangler planning on fishing all 4 events) that the field be leveled for all coanglers.

Either:

(a) the lake is off-limits to all coanglers during the official practice (i.e. pro's practice by themselves or with other confirmed pro's)

(b) co-anglers are allowed to practice on their own, with another confirmed Co-angler, family member that has observed the off-limits guidelines or confirmed Pro.

On the other hand this may be a way for FLW to encourage coanglers who fished the FLW Series to switch over to the Stren in the front of the boat (which is an option for me).

Hopefully Bassfan.com will pick up on this topic from the co-anglers perspective and/or FLW will help clarify the rule for us.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

From what I read there it looks like the coanglers cannot even fish by themselves out of their own boat. But since that rule seems illogical I would invest some time in a phone call to FLW to see if that is an oversite that they may want to correct.

[drew]

NM


I guess MikeD beat me to it.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

http://bassfan.com/news_article.asp?id=2543

If you read the comments made by the pros in the Bass fan writeup. You will find that below where the rules are, you will find that the pros seem to be very much in favor of the off limits rules, and would in many cases like them to be even more strringent.
Not one of them addressed the coangler situation, but many of them addressed the pressure on the fish issue. It seems to appear that they would like to keep as many people off the water including the co anglers as is possible.
One of the anglers stated that he would like to see the off limits extended to 6 months

[Guest]

Jim,

I contacted FLW via phone yesterday and they asked me to email Chris Jones @ cjones@flwoutdoors.com with this question. No response as of yet but I would expect to hear something soon.

[leachman90]

Hey Vince,I DO NOT like this rule at all.As for myself I do not have a boatat this time BUT I do spend alot of time pre-fishing from my tube(I know it sounds funny)where alot of the big boats cannot get to.This has served me well in the past.As for finding a ride with someone to pre-fish with I don't think that will be a problem for me(I hope).I met some of the greastest people in the Tri-Cities tourney and will be staying in touch with most of them in the off season. I am going to try and fish all 4 of the Westerns next year if possible(co-angler).Can't wait for the Delta in March.
I really don't think this new rule has anything to do with beatingup the water either,but for the life of me I am not sure why.Maybe it is to the local co's off the water to take away alittle local edge that could be passed on very easy?Heck,I don't know.GB...Jim

[Guest]

Part 2 of 2 on this story was just published on Bassfan.com:

http://www.bassfan.com/news_article.asp?id=2544

FYI, no reply from FLW Outdoors to my email as I believe they were most likely waiting for the story to break on Bassfan.com.

Here's the direct quotes from the article on the rule change:

Oklahoma's Darrel Robertson ...
One rule change he's 100% in favor of is "co-anglers may practice only with confirmed pros."

"I like that rule about the co-anglers not being able to (take their boats) anymore," he said. "I hope they don't change it. It seemed every co-angler who brought his boat was fishing for a pro that was a buddy of his, and giving him the information. I think this will make it more even."

...

> Dion Hibdon wasn't so sure about the co-angler practice restriction. "I don't necessarily like not letting the co-anglers take their boats," he said. "I think everybody should be allowed to fish."

> The lakes will be off-limits for 12 days prior to official practice. Practice runs from Saturday through Tuesday. Wednesday (registration day) is off-limits, and then competition is held Thursday through Sunday.

As for the comment about pre-fishing for a pro, I have never done this as a co-angler and think this is absurd. As a co-angler for practice I could care less as to where I was fishing, what spot, etc and in fact when I practice I only focus on narrowing down bait color, what's working or not and making sure all of my equipment is functioning properly. In all 3 events this past year each pro I drew did something completely different and I had to learn how to adapt to the guy in front while searching for fish in non-obvious locations rather than throwing to the obvious visible structure. With the stakes this high for the Pro's fishing the FLW Series I feel that more Pro's will prefer to fish alone with little if any available open back seats next year.

I think I need to seriously rethink my schedule for next year at this point. I definitely will not be taking advantage of the priority entry before Oct 23 at this point until I figure out my 2008 schedule. I had already budgeted for the $5,000 in expenses to fish all 4 FLW Evens next year as a co-angler for the FLW Series not to mention the lost wages from time off work (avg trip was costing between $1200 - $1300 in expenses).

I may just focus my efforts on fishing the TBF Federation events as a boater and not traveling so much. At this point I'm not sure if I'm going to fish any of the FLW events unless I can find someone to pre-fish on the Pro side.

[rdesmangles]

Way to tow the line Vince! It is encouraging to hear you and others speak the truth about the value and contributions of the co's to the sport. I do not like the rule and agree with you that it limits our ability to prepare. We are spending good money and need quality time to get ready like the pro's and we should all be able to fish when we can during the appropriate time periods. I will also contact the FLW - Keep up the good discussion - See you at Clear Lake - Also I may have a need for a room mate for the FLW Tour Clear Lake...My room is right next to the ramp...Later!