What are your thoughts about the declining numbers

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MIKE TREMONT
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What are your thoughts about the declining numbers

Post by MIKE TREMONT »

for the Stren Series at Havasu?

I'm sure you've all seen a number of great anglers looking for Am's to sign up with. Some offering dollars as well :D >

I've seen some speculation as to the economy, some to the way treatment of the Am's, and some as to the venue.

I for one would love to take up some of these offers, but can't because I can't miss all that work. I always thought when I grew up I could do whatever I wanted :cry: .

Just interested in a little speculation.
Last edited by MIKE TREMONT on Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by g-man »

I've never been there, but from what I have heard its a tuff fishery. I'm sure that might have some impact. Plus the money, time away from work etc.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by TWinger »

That is the way I was Mike, I thought when I was over 50 and worked for myself I would take more time off etc etc and now I am stuck in a cage 8 hoursa day, five days a week , it just never works out as planned
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Ricky-S »

Havasu is the best the the Colorado has to offer. The timing of this event is fairly good.

The fishing should be good.

The pro numbers are on point but the cos aren't

I think it boils down to marketing and the economy.

I think they will have 140-150 boats.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Fishin' Dave »

yeah, they can't refi their houses to get the entry fee and gas money. Gotta pay the $650 diesel truck pay and the $350 21 ft boat payment :shock:
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by BMX Bassin »

I think its a combo of Economy being sh!tty, Havasu last year sucked with 2 fish getting a check. I am entering as a co-angler all year for a few reasons.
1 Experience. Just started tourneys last year.
2. My 17ft 335v Ranger isnt the ideal BIG tourney boat.
3. experience again. learn from others even if the main difference is thay have a bigger more $$ boat.
Last edited by BMX Bassin on Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Ricky-S »

Where do we keep getting this back seating thing from. For anybody that has ever been to Havasu knows that it is nearly impossible to backseat an am unless you are bed fishing and then there is still a lot of water out there.

Being backseated is VERY subjective. I know because I have been accused of it by a co angler that caught more weight with me then he did is other two pros.

Havasu will be a good tournament.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by CN »

Money is the main reason I think.I can afford it no problem and yes I would love to fish with the guy's who have posted here recently but it's to short of notice.I realize for these size Tournament's you need big lake's but the distance between them limit's alot of guy's being able to fish them.

Also even never fishing Havasu you just see some,not all result's, on the Colorado River Lake's it does not appeal to me enough to invest the time and money.

Start asking us now to sign up with you for next year.Anyway good luck and hope you all get in.

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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Dan McKenzie »

m-o-n-e-y! plain and simple. for the past 7 years I have seen many take there equity and go out and purchase 45K boats, cars, trucks, suv's, oh yea harleys too. like kids in a candy store they bought and then bought some more, fished tournaments, trips to vegas, livin like they were rich. little bump in the road, house mortgage is an adjustable interest rate and poof it all starts to unravel.
by reading what most have to say the flw is the best game in town no doubt, but it is still a lousy use of money no matter how you add it up, especially when cash gets tight.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by BMX Bassin »

Back seated is just being left for nothing while the pro -
-bed fishes
-leaves you hanging out in no mans land.
-fishes the the whole area in front of the boat leaving nothing by the time you get there.
If you never fish the front of the baoat its not as big a deal as if you usually fish out of yor own boat. I have learned to deal with it and try and make a challenge out of it but one tim I wanted to jump in and swim back to the launch. If the Pro is not friendly or grumpy it makes it worse.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by RougeBass »

I turly believe its the economy. Entry fees, gas, lodging, food, license, paying your pro, and misc. all adds up. Than there is the part of trying to find someone to travel with, room share with, and pre-fish with. I really think these thing are more difficult for a co-angler. And I understand pros are faced with the same issues and the costs are even greater for them. But honestly thats why they are fishing on the pro side.

I honestly don't believe the number are declining for any other reason. I don't think being "Beackseated", or the pros are treating co-anglers bad or anything like that. I wanted to fish all the FLW tournaments this year but i couldn't because of my cancer, but all the co-anglers I talked to who are fishing them or has fished them absolutly loves them. And i will be there next year fishing them if the God Lord will allow me!
Last edited by RougeBass on Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by BMX Bassin »

From what I hear there are plenty of Pros, just not enough Co-anglers. Look on the board all kinds of guys looking for a co to sign up with.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Brian »

Ricky-S wrote:Where do we keep getting this back seating thing from.

Being backseated is VERY subjective. I know because I have been accused of it by a co angler that caught more weight with me then he did is other two pros.

Havasu will be a good tournament.

I have heard some horror stories of AMs being backseated. That is why I would never fish any type of draw that was not a shared weight event.
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Slippy »

3 days of tough fishing for "maybe one bite
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Guy Kelley »

Brian I agree with you, for once :lol:

I did the 100% pro/ams for a couple of years and had a blast, sure learned a lot too.

But I think it gets down to bucks and were to spend em. With so many tourniments out there. The Good, Bad & Ugley. it gets to a Co's advantage as to where, when and how much $, they can make and how much they got to spend on making it, if they do!?
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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by chris_hughes »

As far as the declining numbers in the tournaments go, I would say the biggest factor would be our dwindling economy. Another reason for the low numbers on the am side, might be that the Stren series does not pay there am's as much as some people would hope. Now I'm not in any way bashing FLW in any way, the tournaments are a blast to fish and I have met some awesome people who taught me some awesome things along the way. I think that some co-anglers wish they didn't have to own a Ranger 2000 or newer in order to win a boat. But for a 350$ entry you get to fish with 3 angling educators, learn & fish new spots(usually), and meet some of the nicest people out there, I think is a pretty good deal. With that said, if Stren gave away more than 5K, I'm sure more co-anglers would be signing up. As far as backseating goes this has only happened to me once completely, but I got over being mad after the dock he was pounding for 15 minutes, I flipped to and on the first cast pulled out a 4lber.Backseating is always beatable as a co-angler unless your at clearlake and your pro is bedfishing, even then just cast to any water you never know....

Just my $.02


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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by fishfan »

I fished the stren at Mead last year and it SUCKED! They should do all California tourneys and they would get a better co-angler field! Like do Oroville or Berryessa!

Just my .02

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Re: What are your thought about the declining numbers

Post by Robert F »

I have been planning on a pre-fish trip to the Delta during the same period. NG cutoff is the same week as the Stren. I am really torn as I would like to do Havasu. On the other side, I feel my NG travel partner deserves my participation in the pre-fish trip. I am sure the payoff disparity between Ranger owners and non makes a difference. Little tough to justify fishing Stren over NG for non Ranger owners. Just 2 times the entry for 5 times the prize money. Plus you fish with a higher caliber Pro.....in some cases.
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Getting Backseated.......

Post by Cooch »

is just an excuse an amature uses when he is unable to catch fish on his own! What they don't seem to realize is, it is THEY, who choose to pay the back seat entry fee. It is not the pro's, who are "backseating" the ams, but the ams who back seat themselves!

It is time for the ams ta suck it up in these non-shared weights. Learn to "backseat" yer pro! That is the experience you are paying for! Once ya start to think, "I'm getting backseated", you've defeated yourself! It's in yer heads guys!!!!!!!!!!!!! Turn it around and watch yer successes grow!
Last edited by Cooch on Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by CN »

Cooch wrote:is just an excuse an amature uses when he is unable to catch fish on his own! What they don't seem to realize is, it is THEY, who choose to pay the back seat entry fee. It is not the pro's, who are "backseating" the ams, but the ams who back seat themselves!

It is time for the ams ta suck it up in these non-shared weights. Learn to "backseat" yer pro! That is the experience you are paying for! Once ya start to think, "I'm getting backseated", you've defeated yourself! In it's yer heads guys!!!!!!!!!!!!! Turn it around and watch yer successes grow!
As allway's it took me a few re-read's but I get it Andy.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by 492slayer »

If the pro intentionally backseats you, I say simply cast ahead of him. If he has a problem with it, take it to the bank. I believe that a lot of the "pro" fisherman are no better than the amateurs who often times know the water better than the pros. Just my .02.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Brian »

492slayer wrote:If the pro intentionally backseats you, I say simply cast ahead of him. If he has a problem with it, take it to the bank. I believe that a lot of the "pro" fisherman are no better than the amateurs who often times know the water better than the pros. Just my .02.

I've been told by some Co anglers that they have told the pro to let them fish too or they wouldnt sign the weigh slip.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by fishyd »

24 people with opions. How many of you put your money down for real each time no matter how bad the weather or the pre fish? Juust curious if this is a b@$#h fest or real true feel of what I got to look forward to in the back of my boat. SACK UP. Real men fish.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Tobe »

fishyd wrote: Juust curious if this is a b@$#h fest or real true feel of what I got to look forward to in the back of my boat. SACK UP. Real men fish.
LMAO :wink:
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Ricky-S »

Aman to the Cooch.

You have never and will never hear guys who are really good in the back of the boat EVER say that they were backseated because they make adjustments and can catch fish under any circumstance.

Saying you were back seated is usually an excuse for having a bad day. PERIOD!!!!!!!!

I was back seated because he was fipping and all I know how to do is dropshot.

I was back seated because he was bed fishing and he didn't let me cast at the fish that he was working.

I was back seated because he made the first cast at the point we were fishing.

I was back seated because he didn't take me to the water that I practiced in.

Blaw, blaw, blaw, blaw.

Man up and learn how to fish against the fish and stop worring about the boater. When I fished as a non-boater in non-shared weight events I cashed a check in EVERY one of the events because I caught fish behind pros doing my own thing and I adjusted to each situation that I was placed in. PERIOD.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Jason C. »

Mark- I belive you can get back seated on ANY body of water... IF you cand adjust to the position you are in. If the fish are holding to a certain stucture and your boater is "Nosed up to it" and that sturcture isnt back where you are(i.e. weed lines, brush or trees, tulles) then you are out in no-mans land. And with BASS it is extremely easy to get backseated mainly because it is illegal to cast infront of the consoles as a back seater. With FLW its pretty hard to get back seated. You can cast infront of the boat to that specific structure. And I say if you are getting back seated go-ahead and cast infront. Your fishin for a check as well, be it that its a smaller check and you payed less to be there you still payed to be there so you should have every right to. But thats just my opinion. Also it is illegal for your boater to back seat or "unfairly handicapp" a co-angler!

And just like Cooch said you have to lear to back seat the boater. If you can do that then you are doing pretty good. What do I consider backseating a boater. Simply put catching more fish and bigger fish in "recycled" or "used" water.

My advise to co-anglers...dont let the Horror stories of being back seated disscpurage you from entering a draw formatted tournament. 99%of your boaters that you draw are going to be nice people that are also concerned about getting their co-angler on fish. The only reason the 1% of "bad boaters" stick out so much is because people tell the bad stories and no the good or justnormal day on the water stories. People will tell stories about 2 different type of cenarioes. 1 they had a terrible day with their boater because they felt liek they were being back seated. or 2 that had an absolutely AWSOME day and whacked the heck out of big fish. And even then they (co-anglers) more times then not dont say anything like "I had a very good boater" or "Its all thanks to the boater" they will just tell you about the awsome day they had fishing as a co-angler. If people started telling stories of just your everyday run in the mill days with a boater where they had a somewhat decent day they would out way the bad stories so bad that they would hardley even stick out to us anymore.

Sorry for the long post and hope this wasnt to much rambleing for ya! LOL!!
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Ricky-S »

With all due respect Jason

According to your post "it is illegal to cast infront of the consoles." Can you show me in the rules for BASS or FLW where it states this.

I relate this entire issue with being backseated to false information much like the staement about casting in front of the boat.

PLEASE LET"S ALL REFRAIN FROM STATING RUMORS AS FACTS!

Every non-boater (co-angler) is up against the SAME situation. Those that are seasoned and understand the game make adjustments and tend to do well. Those that don't-Well, they don't.

The only person that can stop you from doing well in these non-shared weight tournaments is YOURSELF. The guys that do well on the co-angler side won't chime in because they want the rest of you to focus on being backseated while they focus on catching five fish each day regardless of who they draw and how that person fishes. NOW THAT IS THE TRUTH!
Last edited by Ricky-S on Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Jason C. »

Also to add onto being backseated... Being back seated while a boater is bedfishing is pretty easy to overcome. You just need to know how. Get your search baits out. I.E. your watermovers and noise makers. Like a wake bait, crank bait, buzz bait, spook, frogs ANYTHING. And just start fan casting. Covering as close to 360* as you can. Because if you think about your boater is fishing in 1 small dinner plate sized area. Chances are you are going to be in a flat 4-5ft deep ALL AROUND you. Thats were these baits really accell at and you should do just fine! :wink: Just keep this a secret though I dont want this getting out :wink:
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Jason C. »

Ricky,
I was simply stateing what I thought was to be true. If that rule isn't ture then I apologize for stateing a "fact" that I thought was true just from numerous amounts of posts, or people telling me that, that rule was true for BASS. I never said it was Illegal for FLW and I know for a fact that it isn't illegal for FLW. Again if it isnt true plaease dis-reguard what I said about that rule.

Also I agree the only thing holding someone back. I personlly just as you stated dont worry about getting back seated. I worry about catching 5 fish. I dont even worry about catching 5 BIG fish untill i have a limit. If on my way to catching that limit I happen to catch some big fish well thats just an added bonus. My main worry is catching a consistent weight for 3 or 4 days in a row. Just my .02cents
Last edited by Jason C. on Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Rich reeser »

I've had good days and bad days. On the good days I beat the fish, on the bad days the fish beat me. Period. My pro's had nothing to do with it. Oh in back to the real question.... MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. is there any other reason, we all love to fish.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Ricky-S »

No hard feelings Jason!

My point is that your post is exactly like the backseat thing. I know someone, who knows someone, that thought they knew someone that said that so and so backseat their co-angler.

Fish an event for yourself and get a first hand example of what really happens. You may be shocked that 99.9% of boaters want their co-anglers to catch fish.

It boils down to giving some respect and room and you may be glad to see that you'll get the same in return :lol:

Likewise, if you try to match me cast for cast with your lure landing inches away from mine, WE may be in for a long day.
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Re: As usual.... Sorry - Long rant, read at your own risk.

Post by Dewayne »

Lots of opinions from people who have never fished an FLW/BASS event and have no clue what they are talking about other than what they heard. Cooch is dead on with his comment.

Not signing a weight slip will not DQ anyone It will get the two of you some one-on-one time with the TD to tell your stories, it equates to a protest. You had better have something better than "He asked me not to fish his bed fish" if you want to be heard. Backseating someone could be accomplished when you could not cast ahead of the console. Since a co-angler can cast anywhere around the boat you can not just point the back of the boat into the lake and keep them from having anything but deep water. It's an old term that really has little meaning with todays rules.

Let me translate something for you. When your buddy tells you he got backseated all day what he is really saying is "I sucked today and rather than accept responsibility for my poor fishing I had this guy on the front of the boat to blame for my poor decision making."

It's real simple. The challenge of being a co-angler is milking fish from used water. If you expect your pro to pull up to a bank and say "Here, want first crack?" then your headed into the event with the wrong attitude. The good co-anglers milk fish from used water all day long. Heck, I have had many outfish me without making a cast to water I had not already worked. I pick up a jig, they throw a Senko. I pick up a Senko, they throw a drop shot. The guys who complain about being back seated usually do the opposite and pick up the same bait as the boater and try to outfish you from behind you with the same bait. I've even seen some who want to throw a crankbait all day while your flipping. HELLO! that dont work!!! It requires that you think to do well.

Brian, as a boater you cannot tell your co-angler not to fish, that is against the FLW rules. You may ask that they respect a bed fish you are working, but that usually covers a 10 foot area from all the water around the boat. Yes, some co anglers who do not have experience enough to know that there are usually many fish that cannot be seen in the same area will quit because they have an impression they are being "back seated" even though they have lots of water to fish. I remember a few years ago at Havasu I was working a bed fish and kept telling my co-angler to cast to the middle of the bay with a Senko while I worked the fish. He gave up and sat down. I picked my Senko up and threw it to the middle of the bay to show him where I had two bites in pre-fish. I got bit on that demo cast, landed a two pounder and went back to my bed fish. Now, I bet that kid swore I back seated him.

The really good co-anglers love two things, bad weather and bed fishing tournaments. In either about 25% of the field will be beat before they make a cast. Both improve their odds.

It's real simple. As a boater or co-angler there are always easy excuses and we all at one time or another want to use those excuses. If you have never fisnished a tournament and had to say "I sucked today" then you may be allowing excuses to cloud your perspective.

Sorry, it is just an overused excuse that ticks me off. If you see me sometime ask me about the story of the guy I overhreard telling his friends that I backseated him. It is a classic.

Now onto the main subject. The field is small because Havasu was terrible the lest two visits. When guys like Robert Lee go days without a fish, what do you expect. There are several factors including that we are not bringing new people in to fill each year as people move from co-angler to boater, the economy, gas prices, payback, and etc.


Rant over. :wink:
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Last edited by Dewayne on Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: As usual.... Sorry - Long rant, read at your own risk.

Post by Ricky-S »

Hey Dewayne,
You should expect a call from some extremely mad, yet successful, co-anglers that may want to have a few choice words about you sharing their sercrets on the net :lol:

It has taken some of them years to perfect what you just gave away :lol:

Let's see who actually listens :wink:
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Jason C. »

I personally know first hand that 99.9% of boater are concerned about getting their co-anglers fish. And that was one of the points of my previouis post. I personally wont try to match anyone cast to cast landing my bait but a few inches from my boaters bait. How ever if I feel I am being back seated(i.e. fish are in 5-15feet ofwater and the boat is in 3+ feet of water with the nose pointing directly in the direction of the shallower water and I am stuck in 30+) I will cast infront of the boat to that depth but at the same time try to keep my bait a decent distance away from my boaters.. If I see they are castinf slightly to the left then I will cast out to the right. If they are casting slightly to the right then I will cast to the left. If they are casting directly infront of them then I will cast to either side untill they start casting to either the left or right. Also if they are fishing the left side and I cast to the right and they reel up and cast to the right I will reel up as fast as I can to get my bait out of that area and go to the left and visa-virsa. Like I said I paid to be there I to am fishing for a check and I will use every oppritunity I can to cash that check. BUt heck sometimes the boater has no choise BUT to position a boat like that due to weather. And sometimes a co-angler can forget that and say they were back seated. Ive done that but then a few days or weeks later it dawned on me that it was pretty windy and its hard to controll the boat in the wind that is OPTIMAL for both the Pro and co-angler.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by rickd »

I agree with Slippy.

I remember the horror of last years bite and wouldn't spend my money to drive / fly down there to be lucky to get bite. If it was a better bite I bet a lot more folks would fish it.

Sure I like learning how to catch fish when the bite is tough, but all I need to do is drive an hour to the Delta to do that!

Plus who wants to learn how to fish Havasu? It's not around the corner from me and probably wouldn't ever fish it again, not a big attraction for me.
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by Marty »

Sorry Gentlemen,

This will be my four year fishing FLW and I have not come across a Pro that back-seats me – yes there have been some hard times! I just have to adjust. As for Pro’s ability that is the luck of the draw as it is in a shared weight.

As for me cutting back on some of the tournament in the FLW (Stren and Guard) is the time of the year and not enough vacation time. I’m not going to use what vacation time and my money to fish in the snow and cold and not catch fish. I would rather fish waters that I would go on vacation on i.e. Delta and Clear Lake and not catch fish.

In the Stren they lump all four tournaments in the first of the year, 12 Jan Shasta, 20 Feb Havaus, without pre-fish is 8 days of vacation and cost $650 in fee only. Then they come back and hold Clear Lake on 16 Apr and Delta on 14 May in the best two months and again it cost you $650 in fee and other 8 days of vacation if you don’t pre-fish. So to fish all four tournaments of the Stren it cost $1,300 and 16 days of vacation. How many days do you get a year for vacation?

Then we have the NG, the fist one is the Delta on 12 Mar (cost $700 and another 4 days of vacation) follow by Mead on 10 May (again $700 and other 4 days of vacation) then it all stops and does not start up again until Columbia on 20 Sep and Shasta 11 Oct. Other $1400 and 8 days of vacation.

So for one person to fish Co-Angler in all 8 events it cost $4,100 in just fees and 32 days of vacation. Now a Pro may be able to do it but there are very few Co-anglers that can do it and keep a wife and job.

There needs to be some changes to make it easer on the Co-Angler – like start the tournament on Thursday, this way 190 Co-anglers can drive home on Sunday saving one day of vacation. That brings it down 24 day of vacation and not 32 day (again I’m not counting pre-fish days).

Other thing that would help is to split the Stren as they do the Guard, two tournaments the first of the year and two in the second half of the year. This would make it a lot easer at work.

So I look at all 8 of their tournaments and chose the one that are best for me – I doing Stren Delta and Clear Lake and NG the Delta. I would have done Clear Lake in the NG but they decided not to go there but wanted to go to the Dead Sea instead – bad chose and good chose on my part to save the money and vacation for next year for waters that I like.
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nipples
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It's not the money, it's the value

Post by nipples »

It's not the money… it's the value...

I have talked to a lot of co anglers about Mead and Havasu for the FLW. The consensus I get is that it’s not the money, it's the value they get for the money. I agree with this.

I'll explain... A co angler pays to fly down to Vegas or drive down, hotel, food, tackle, entry fees, etc. The fishing on Mead and Havasu sucks because it is WAY to early in the season for any decent fishing. If they are lucky, they get a bite or two. If they are not lucky, they don't get a single keeper.

Now they just invested a ton of time and money in the trip. They just burned a week of vacation time to boot. And then, lets say they blank in spite of fishing their butts off for 3 days...

Like salt on an open wound, they don't get a single point for their cost and efforts.

You see.. not enough incentive given for that tough of a tourney. If you are good on the other 3 tourneys, then you are going to the championship, even if you didn't bother wasting time at Mead or Havasu. I just don't understand why FLW doesn't change that so they can attract more anglers to these Southern Nevada tourneys.

It's really quite simple... If FLW gave them a minimum amount of points for showing up and fishing for three tough days, regardless of catching a fish, then it might be worth it. Anglers would at least walk away feeling that it wasn't a complete waste of time. This minimum should apply to all 4 tourneys... That way, a guy who fishes all 4 tourneys has a point’s advantage over a guy that only fishes three. Since there are minimum points on all tourneys, then there is an incentive to fish all 4. A guy who blanked at mead can still edge out a guy who would have beat him by 24 points and didn't bother with mead.

Additionally, if FLW chose a better time of year to fish these lakes, there would be a lot more co anglers. It doesn’t make sense to me. Why fish Mead and Havasu at the worst times of the year? For the challenge? Not worth it.

The guys I know that are fishing the Stren this year don't want anything to do with Havasu nor Mead this early in the season. It has nothing to do with getting back seated, because that happens so rarely and a pro has to be a serious moron to try that.

And no, by back seat, I do not mean position the boat a certain way.

By back seat I mean a pro kicks the trolling motor up to full speed and takes off the moment he realizes his co angler hooked a fish. Or he keeps hitting the co anglers line with the net hoping to lose the fish.

If the pro is called on it, he might play dumb, and if not, he'll keep it up. I have heard stories, first hand, from the co anglers targeted with that kind of stuff. I personally have never experienced it, but I am a big guy and not too many guys would try a dumb stunt like that and live to pull the boat out of the water.

But seriously… It’s all these little things that add up... Currently Havasu and Mead are not worth it on the whole. Change one or two minor things and they will be worth it.


Good Fishing,

-Paul-
Do it like no one is watching...
Ringer
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Re: It's not the money, it's the value

Post by Ringer »

Regardless of the boat management issue there were co-anglers before and the same things were done so what has changed? Could it be the mortgage crisis that allowed a Wal-mart greeter to buy a new Ranger and an F-250 diesel? Could it be that just about everyone I know in construction just got laid off or can see it coming? It seems that the coanglers would have been the guys that could afford to enter but did not have an expensive boat to fish Pro so it is logical that those people are getting hit hard with this downturn and cannot afford to fish for a while. I have seen good offers to pay a good share of the co expense and no takers so it tells me the guys and gals are starting to hurt and are at least afraid of the future. I fished my first and last at the Pleasant tourney. The pros were great but I am way too used to controlling my boat and both were ugly. I was hoping for a good looking woman as my pro then I woke up and my pro looked like my dog walking backwards. :shock:
Dewayne
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Re: Paul, still bad info

Post by Dewayne »

After the 2007 tournament that was real tough many of us talked to Charlie Evans (FLW CEO). There was about 10 of us that went to dinner with Charlie Friday night of the week and many more that called. The input was to move it a couple weeks later as we just missed the good bite. FLW listened as they usually do and moved this tournament from the end on January to late February. While it may not seem like a big move it is just enough to get you into the pre-spawn/early spawn bite.

Of course in fishing there are no guarntees, but FLW did what we asked to get the tournament into a better bite and if the weather does what it usually does this time of year the guys headed to Havasu should be in for a fun bite.

You can check last year WON Pro/Am results to see what the bite was like at this time last year.
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wccjanel
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Re: Paul, still bad info

Post by wccjanel »

I've tried; you can't fish them all.
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getalife
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by getalife »

I fished both the Clearlake and Delta tourneys as an AM when the Elites came out here 4 or 5 years ago. One of my pro's on Clearlake pulled between two docks and took a cast at the one on the left, so I cast to the dock on the right, he turns to me and says "if you cast into water that I haven't fished yet, I will make sure you don't catch a single fish today" That was at our first spot of the day and boy did it set the mood for a looooong day of fishing. Was I backseated... no. If I was more familiar with the rules I would have challenged him on that, and I did manage to catch a few fish behind him. During those two events I had the opportunity to fish with Roger Boler and Jarrett Edwards, who were both excellent partners, and both seemed genuinely concerned with me catching fish also. Just like anything, you are going to have good days and bad days, good pros and bad pros, when I felt like I was "backseated", I still took the opportunity to watch and learn from my pro and I am a better fisherman for the experience.
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mac (Doyle McEwen)
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Re: Getting Backseated.......

Post by mac (Doyle McEwen) »

No doubt the quality of fishing at Havasu has some to do with the lack of AMs/COs, No doubt the current economy also has something to do with it..With me personally it is strictly a money thing..I don't have it..It sure isn't vacation time, being retired, I have all of that I need or want..

I fish strictly from the backseat and I cannot ever remember a single time in any tournament that I have been backseated, other than by my roommate when he would pull into the tules to do some flipping and leave me on the rear end with tules over my head and tight against the boat..But I took care of that problem by moving to the front of the boat..No big deal, we were fishing as a team anyway..

I agree with Cooch and Dewayne and Ricky on the subject..If I can see water, I can fish..I may or may not catch anything, but I will assure I will be trying..I have never understood the mindset that all of the fish are in front of the boat..True, the boater probably does have first choice on what he deems the prime water for any give spot, but is he going to blanket it so you have no water to work..These guys are good, but I don't think any of them are that good..I have watched my boater flip a likely target three or four times with no resultas and move on and then I flip inot the same area using the same bait and get hit..It happens..

mac
Take a kid fishing, and don't forget about us older kids either..
Wolfeman
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The Money

Post by Wolfeman »

I'm not a tournament angler so maybe I should just butt out, but I'll offer this.

$650 entry fee
$200 for gas for my pro to drive us and his rig to Havasu (600 miles from San Mateo)
$200 for the gas my boaters will use during tourney ($50/day)
$200 for hotel if I split with my pro ($50/day)
$100 for food (Jack Cabatta for brkt, ToGos for lunch/dinner)
$1350 Total

I'm being really conservative with my estimates (and I'm sure that there are folks on here who will gladly point that out to me), but that isn't my point.

My point is $1350 (at least!!!).

I'm certainly not the target audience for these circuits. I can't be.
I have a mortgage, two kids in college, and one in high school.
I have a good job but not that freakin' good.

$1350 = almost a house payment,
$1350 = 20 trips to the Delta fun fishing as a co-angler,
$1350 = 10% down on 1996 Ranger 488.
Etc.

Who has that kind of money? I'll tell ya who has that kind of money.
Single guys with really good jobs.
Married guys with good jobs who have wives who also have good jobs.
Married guys who don't have a mortgage, and all of the kids have moved out, and the wife is tired of looking at their sorry face.

That's your target audience for co-anglers. The circuits need to realize that and go after that demographic.

I'd like to see the profiles of the co-anglers that sign up for Havasu (age, salary, rent/mortgage, marital status, kids, etc.) It would be an interesting study of the demographic make up of the co-anglers. I wonder if the circuits do that kind of research?
- Wolfeman
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gt5bass
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Re: The Money

Post by gt5bass »

Wolfeman wrote:I'm not a tournament angler so maybe I should just butt out, but I'll offer this.

$650 entry fee
$200 for gas for my pro to drive us and his rig to Havasu (600 miles from San Mateo)
$200 for the gas my boaters will use during tourney ($50/day)
$200 for hotel if I split with my pro ($50/day)
$100 for food (Jack Cabatta for brkt, ToGos for lunch/dinner)
$1350 Total
Wolfe,

The Co-Angler entry is only $325. But $1050 is still a lot to budget. This is why I believe a lot of Co's now just show up on Tuesday to avoid most of the accessory expenses.
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Dewayne
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Re: Wolfman - Not really conservative.

Post by Dewayne »

Entry is $325
Your looking at a 1100 mile round trip. With my V-10 Ford which gets 10 miles a gallon it is about $170 to share gas.
$150 will be more than enough for boat fuel.
Your $200 for hotel is OK. Some of us stay 3 to a room, that helps.
Food number is pretty good, will be about $100.

Your a bit over, but about $1000 for a co-angler is a decent number to use. Still, your not going to get rich
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Re: Wolfman

Post by Ricky-S »

Hey Wolfman,
Where can you buy a house in CA (now days) where your payment is only $1300? :lol:

My payment is 3 times that amount. :cry:
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Fishin' Dave
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Re: Wolfman

Post by Fishin' Dave »

Rickey call me. I've got lots of homes in the Manteca, Tracy, Stockton area for under $216,829 (that would be the loan amount for a $1300 payment over 30 yrs at 6% interest with no down payment) Live by the Delta baby!!!!
Don't be lame. It's just fishing; you are not the new mesiah you know! Check your attitude at the door Mr. Spinners on da boat trailer.
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Lance
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Re: Wolfman

Post by Lance »

As a third year Co-Angler I have to totally agree with Cooch, Ricky and Dewayne. I learned a real big lessen this past Shasta Stren event, well actually a bunch of lessons. But they hit the nail on the head.

Nothing is ever the way it seems. Take for instance looking at Dawaynes day 1 and day 2 Co's, Dawayne seemed to be on fish. But on day 3 Dawayne Co only brought 1 fish to the scale...ONE fish...at Shasta. The first thing people assumed was that "I was backseated" and that couldn't be farther from the truth. My point is that I failed to adapt as a Co angler. Dawayne did everything imaginable to get my confidence up (within the rules of course) yet people thought I was backseated. Why do we assume this?, not sure.

I'm not saying your never going to have bad Pro's, there out there. But 99 percent of the time, your day, and how well you do is dictated by your attitude, not the Pro's. If you get on that boat with a sense of entitlement, you might be in for a long day, threaten not to sign a weigh slip, yup long day. What Co's need to understand is Pro's have a wealth of information and they have the ability to offer advice....if they like you. But get on that boat and complain about everything, and act like the world revolves around you, see how far that gets you. At the end of day 3 at Shasta Dawayne helped me analyze went wrong and gave me helpful advice for the future, he didn't have to do that, but he did.

Lets face it, Co's need to adapt to the given situation no matter how bad it seems, this is what separates the good from the bad. It boils down to your (the Co's) attitude and how you overcome your situation. This is where your mental toughness comes in. YOU must improvise, YOU must adapt, YOU must over come. If you dont, you have no one else to blame but yourself.

This is my .02, take it for what its worth.
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