We're still in this fight, guys...

Ron C · Post by **Ron C** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:43 am

I just received this e-mail from Ranger Rob Weinerth at Lake Casitas. He asked me to pass it on:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ron,

Casitas and I are open for most suggestions. If individuals want to help reopen I am working on a project with Larry Elshere. It involves a locking down system with a tamper proof tag. The locking down system is a 6 foot cable and lock. The tamper proof tag is what we need help with.

The thought behind this is that the incoming vessel will purchase a lock out tag system from Casitas for $25.00. The vessel will be inspected and placed on a 10-day quarantine. The vessel could leave and be on quarantine at the individualâ€™s house. After fishing, a new tamper proof tag will be placed on the lock. This will enable the vessel to fish on consecutive days. If this works, other non infested lakes will have the same system.

This is all a long shot and there is definitely more details to this program. This system will guarantee to the Board that the vessel is clean and dry, has been quarantined and not a possible infectious agent of invasive species. In short, if people want to help me or them to get back on the lake, the tamper proof tab system needs to be finalized.

Time is of the essence and Park Staff is pushing forward this issue ASAP. Thank you for the help and feel free to forward this message to all those fighting the right cause and wishing to help.

Sincerely,
Ranger Rob Weinerth
rweinerth@casitaswater.com

Gambler · Post by **Gambler** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:29 am

Hey Ron,

Tell me more about what the tamper proof tag is like. My company sells the tamper proof wrist bands like you see at concerts, fairs, etc. They can be printed with the names of each lake, and purchased by the lakes for distribution by them. If this cable has loops on the ends for the lock, the wrist bands can also be placed through the loops. These come in a number of different colors(a different color for each lake) and cost about .25 each at 1000, a little more if we print sequential numbers on each one. Prices go down for higher quantities.

Let me know if this works, or if you need samples.

Kevin

Toad · Post by **Toad** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:10 am

What about the "coalition of clean lakes" idea while using the tamper proof tape? Otherwise you are stuck at one lake.

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:50 am

Looks like something a local come up with that does not help anyone outside the group of people than only fish that lake. Hey, I have a novel idea. Can we fight for Casitas to be open for all of us?
Guy Williams

gobassfish · Post by **gobassfish** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:13 pm

How about a Prop boot, you know like they use on your car when you dont pay parking tickets. If the inspections were unified you could get your boat verified near you 10 days before you goto the next lake kind of deal.

2 cents..

really the problem is the weekend warriors that either dont know or don't take care of their equipment.

Al M · Post by **Al M** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:21 pm

Yea what Guy said.I say keep it closed till the mussels are discovered then they can reopen it to everyone.

Dave Wilson · Post by **Dave Wilson** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:28 pm

Well, as the board of directors has stated that If Quagga mussels are discovered then Lake Casitas shall remain closed to outside boats, I doubt having mussels is any answer to a problem we have with gaining access.
I still think the State of California has somewhat let us down on this Quagga mussel issue, and I'm pretty sure our local DF&G reps feel the same way. I do congratulate the State for the inspection efforts at the border, and I thank Lake Mead for insisting upon decontamination for any boats that have been stored in the water before they travel.
I'm sure that MWD will learn a lot of new and interesting info regarding Quagga mussels, and we will all benefit.
I also hope we all catch some double digit fish soon!
_______________________________________________________
Applied Marine Biology Studies and Consulting

Darkman · Post by **Darkman** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:02 pm

come on fellas..its a start, the rangers are trying...is it the best plan...no but its a shot in the direction we need to go...its forward movement..it a good starting point....BTW if they find Quagga and zebras in there and its found not to be caused by boats...the will close indefinitely...think about who we are dealing with

lets push forward

Ron C · Post by **Ron C** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:25 pm

Guy - Thank you for your continuing support. To date you have done exactly nothing to help in this fight, except to criticize the hard work and ideas of those who are fighting this fight on behalf of every fisherman - even those too ignorant to realize it.

Gambler - PLEASE contact Ranger Rob with your information ASAP at: rweinerth@casitaswater.com. This is exactly the kind of help that we need. Thank you.

Toad - Although very preliminary at this time, the coalition thing that you mentioned is exactly where this locking down idea is headed. Again, although very preliminary, the neighboring non-infected lakes have already expressed an interest in establishing a coalition. I urge you to also please contact Ranger Rob with your thoughts, as well. Thank you, also.

Dave - I love ya, man. You have done a great deal to help us in this battle and we all sincerely appreciate your efforts. PLEASE stay with us on this.

Ron C

Rob Cummings · Post by **Rob Cummings** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:17 pm

I live 3 miles from the lake. If Ron or anyone else needs me to do anything there "in person" or take care of anything here that can't be done through phone or email just let me know and I will do what I can.

Ron C · Post by **Ron C** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:33 pm

Thanks Rob. We've got several things in the works and, at some point in time, we will definitely need your local help. I'll keep you informed.

Thanks again.

Ron C

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:40 pm

It sounds to me the ranger is looking for a cable lock to keep the boat on the trailer between visits. The tamper proof band could be placed between the cable loops along with a padlock. The lock can be supplied by the lake, paid for by the angler and they keep the keys. You can't take the boat off the trailer wthout tampering with the tape or unlocking the cable. Each lake can have their own locks and can also replace the tamperproof tape. You may end up with several locks and each lake needs to honor the others tamper proof tape system.
Tom

DougH · Post by **DougH** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:04 pm

Ya know Guy, the reason I created the "Coalition of Clean Lakes" concept, was so that it wasn't just a locals thing. I know you all think I want to hog the lake to myself, and that I don't want any tournaments there, but that's not the case at all. It was so that guys like you could come up and fish at Casitas too. My main point all the time was that I didn't think that fishing in infected waters right before fishing in Casitas was an acceptable idea, regardless of any scientific data or cleaning procedures. For the Board to accept this plan, I had to make sure nobody would drag the little critters along with them, so the "leash and seal" idea came to me with a big thanks to the woman who brought the "tamperproof seal" idea up at the big meeting. That was the final missing piece of my puzzle.
Larry spent an entire day putting a "leash" together that will be the starting point to build on, and so far it is working out exactly as conceived. We're still working on the "Seal" and the "Leash" to make sure that they cannot be tampered with, and that is where we're looking for some help.

I didn't want to let the "cat out of the bag" so to speak until I had a better overall plan put together, but since I was camping at Lopez this weekend and out of phone service, Larry was forced to share with Ranger Rob due to circumstances. Larry is a bulldog and he spent countless hours working on the "leash and seal" this weekend, and he didn't do this as a "local" , Guy, he did it for the fishing community, just as he spent countless hours compiling community financial losses data for the last meeting. For you to suggest he is working for the "locals only" isn't fair. Or, perhaps that jab was aimed at me...

Ron C. thanks for your support in this endeavor, you too are a bulldog, working for the fishing community as a whole.

Stay tuned everybody, we'll have more this week.

DougH · Post by **DougH** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Tom,
You will be able to use your own lock if you wish, but the tamperproof seal is what the lakes will provide, when you're leaving the lake. Your own lock is a good idea to keep the stress off of the "Seal". It will also protect your "Leash" from being stolen. The lake will sell you the "Leash" when you sign up with the Coalition. Your first "Seal" will either be dated or recorded at the lake, either way providing the lake the information which proves your boat has been out of any water for the soon to be specified time period. From that point on, a normal seal will be used. If it is broken or tampered with, a new dated seal will be attached, and a new waiting period will begin.

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:21 pm

Maybe I missed something that you already said but if not this could be expanded to multiple lakes. If you could get a coalition of lakes that are muscle free to agree on the same seal then folks could fish multiple lakes as well. It could even go state-wide.

DougH · Post by **DougH** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:24 pm

Schneider Fishing wrote:Maybe I missed something that you already said but if not this could be expanded to multiple lakes. If you could get a coalition of lakes that are muscle free to agree on the same seal then folks could fish multiple lakes as well. It could even go state-wide.

That IS the concept...

Ron C · Post by **Ron C** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:24 pm

I just got a call from Sean James with another possible idea. Sean's idea was to utilize a steering wheel device similar to "The Club" auto theft deterant device in addition to the tamper-proof seal.

Obviously there would have to be modifications made to it, but if each one had its own combination lock and each coalition lake had the combinations, then we might have something workable here.

If a boat owner wanted to fish outside of the coalition area, they could remove the device themselves, but they would then be subject to a 10-day (or so) quarantine before returning one of the coalition lakes.

I encouraged Sean to pass his idea along to Ranger Rob and Larry ASAP.

Bully for you Sean!

Ron

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:31 pm

Ron - all of this sounds awesome in an attempt to restore fishing to Casitas and all our lakes. I will caution one thing about the steering wheel device. I have to lokc my motor at full right for it to fit in my garage - yet I tow it as you typically would, in a straight ahead fashion. This could leave some people out in the cold. Not criticizing - just commenting.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:51 pm

Geesh, a tamper proof seal from a non infected lake, and if its broken, its 10 days....BRILLIANT!!!!

Gator, you have a good point, I have to move my motor to get the boat in the garage.

All you guys that have been working behind the scenes are just awsome, your doing a killer job and I applaude you.

If at any time you need my help, you got my number.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:00 pm

Some of you are missing the tamper proof and lock idea and putting it out of sorts . The lock is there only to keep the cable from seperating the the seal or band placed by the lake . You keep the key . The band would go threw the same loops on the cable as the lock . The lock is just a safty to hold the cable together so the band does not get damaged in rought . If each lake gets on board with this than its not just a local only deal . I like it and I think it will work. The stering wheel idea is not good , that does not keep the boat on the trailor . The lake will never go for that . Remember thay want a 100% guarintee the boat does not touch infected water .
Good job Larry .

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:12 pm

100% Guarantee? Sure, like anything in life is a 100% guarantee.

It's a start though. At least the dialogue is starting. Good work.

Hugh_M · Post by **Hugh_M** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:50 pm

This is all very encouraging. Great job to all Ron C, Doug H, Larry E, Ranger Rob and all the others working their A$$es off on this issue. Keep working on the good ideas and maybe there is some hope in the very near future. I think I'll hold off sending my annual passes in for a refund for awhile to see how this evolves. Thanks again to you guys..

Hugh

dvmarina · Post by **dvmarina** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:09 pm

Diamond Valley is looking into a similar solution, less of a lock and more of something that has to be cut off before you launch. The idea is to be able to identify the last place the boat launched so we don't have to inspect every vessel all the time. If anyone comes up with something they think will work send it my way-

Jeff

Al M · Post by **Al M** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:13 pm

I think I understand now,correct me if Im wrong.Basically you have this coalition of lakes,they put some seal on your boat,you are only allowed to launch at specified lakes if the seal is intact.What if you wish to launch in the ocean in between lake trips?Not all of us fish solely in the fresh.How can that be a good idea.I dont think this would be the solution to the problem as a whole for the masses,just for a select group of people.I believe this is a little bit of a knee jerk reaction to the problem,somewhat desperation.I thought things were in the works to address the problem,not exclude certain demoghraphics of the fishing population.Just my thoughts please dont take it the wrong way.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:16 pm

Again , The lock is only there to protect the seal on the cable . The boater keeps the key the lakes moniter the seals . The seal only connects the two ends of the cable . You dont want the seal flapping in the wind when you drive almost two hours to casitas and a solid two to DV like myself . The seal will have to be cut to launch and a new one installed BEFORE you leave the parks .

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:49 pm

Al M,

I assume that if you take your boat to the ocean you'll have to break the seal, then you cant get on a "safe" lake for 10 days. This is alot better than NEVER being able to take your boat on Casitas

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:49 pm

Ron, your and ignorant a$$ with that comment. What do you know about I have done? Just because I don't call you? Who are you for me to call or write too? What do you need from me? Do you need me to pat you on the back and say "good job". Are you the one making up the rules? Should I not look at the other side? Should I just look at "ifs", "maybe" and "hopefully" different? What about the retired couple that wants to drive 500 miles to fish Casitas for the week? What about the family that likes to use the swim park during the afternoon and fish in the morning and evening? Personally, I think most here are just looking out for the tourney guy and bass angler not the other people that use the lakes. Narrow minds are short sighted! Look at the far end for the "best" idea. How about this for an idea. Let's blame who brought the Quagga mussel to the SoCal area? MWD, via the Colorado aqueduct!! Who is trying to close our lakes? MMMMM, well the same people that brought it here! Why, I see a connection. Do I have a great idea? No, not one that would involve everyone in the state or country.

The thought behind this is that the incoming vessel will purchase a lock out tag system from Casitas for $25.00. The vessel will be inspected and placed on a 10-day quarantine. The vessel could leave and be on quarantine at the individuals house. After fishing, a new tamper proof tag will be placed on the lock. This will enable the vessel to fish on consecutive days. If this works, other non infested lakes will have the same system.

So you are telling me that you want some guy from San Diego, Redding or out of state to wait 10 days after you get inspected to be able to use the lake? Wow, looks like a local deal to me. Maybe it's just me but that does not sound like it's in the "best " interest of all of the users of our lakes.
Guy Williams, who keeps it REAL!!!

CHUG BUG · Post by **CHUG BUG** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:54 pm

the steering wheel idea is not very solid. what stops someone from launching and using the trolling motor all day? i doubt that would be the case for most, but i'm sure the question will be raised. fixing the boat to the trailer seems the most logical way. if anyone wants to launch with the trailer..........

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:02 pm

Ron and Guy,
It's a start. Is it perfect? Probably not. But it's a step in the right direction.
I, for one, am sorry this has become personal.
It's too important for it to become a pissing contest between people who really want the same thing, the opportunity to fish.
Let's all try and keep things in perspective.
It's not about who did what.
It's about getting something done.
And the lock and seal idea is a start.

Rob Cummings · Post by **Rob Cummings** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:09 pm

http://www.wristbands.com.au/wristbands ... .htm#order

Why can't you put that through the same ends of the cable as the padlock? The lock holds the ends of the cable and the band is just there for tamper evidence. It's waterproof, one time use, comes in 17 different colors and a box of 500 for $120.

CHUG BUG · Post by **CHUG BUG** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:10 pm

as much as i would hate to have the government even deeper in my business......i noticed how car rental places have gps trackers on their cars that tell them where each and every one is located at all times. would be simple enough to set up, and may be the only long term solution. they could keep track of every location that boat has been. i would be willing to give in to the big brother thing if it helped solve this mess!

pharmer · Post by **pharmer** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:33 pm

pharmer · Post by **pharmer** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:35 pm

I've gotta say, I see Al's point. Every one was miffed that they were excluding every one except for locals who stored they're boats. Now people seem to feel better now that they may only be excluding those ocean guys. Kind of like the "tax the rich guy so long as I'm not considered rich" mentality. As a guy that fishes the ocean once a week, and twice a month in the fresh, it seems simple to have these tags also available at the coast guard stations at the local harbors. Nobody would be cleaner than boat with a salt rinse and a salt motor flush. Ron, I do appreciate the idea and your hard work on the subject, just don't forget about me and Al when your sitting down to make the rules. You can let up when they exclude some one besides me.

[img].%20Phil[/img]

Cmarkfish · Post by **Cmarkfish** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:28 am

I know they make a plastic zip tie type numbered seal we use at my work. We use them to seal truck loads after they leave the store. The are very tuff and cheap in price and should do the job.

Chief

Guy G · Post by **Guy G** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:16 am

Hey Ron,

How 'bout serialized, or custom imprinted FLEX-CUFFS? You know, the kind the cops use at riots. They are tamper proof, and especially strong, if they have the metal band down the center, (possibly no need for a lock, other than to retain your cable) and if marked appropriately, could be shared by the coalition of lakes.........

Guy G

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:39 am

I'll support whatever the lakes allow, as long as it allows me to fish more than one lake.

A seal sounds like a great idea, whatever is acceptable to the lake management, but hopefully it will be cost-efficient such as the seals that Chief and Guy are talking about. It would be easy enough to seal the boat to the trailer, but somewhere down the line the scenarios Guy and Al raise need to be taken into consideration. There are a lot of folks who camp out at Casitas from across the country and will expect to be able to use their boats, and many guys cross over and need a way to be able to be in compliance. Also, the coalition needs to encompass the Western states, at very least, if tournament bass fishing is going to survive.

I personally like the idea of serialized security zip ties, as they should be cheap and effective.

Roger

JKitz · Post by **JKitz** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:09 am

How hard would it be to implement a "passport type" system. Just get a booklet and get stamped upon the exit inspection. The stamps will be different for each lake and will have the date on them as well. This booklet MUST be presented every time you fish a lake and will show the lake staff when and where you last fished.

I think this would solve a lot of issues. And if people are so hard up to make counterfeit stamps, then you really have issues. I think we are all pretty honest people and I wouldn't mind having to present a booklet to let the staff know its been 2 weeks since I last fished and it was at DVL.

No booklet, No fish. And if you fished a particular water within a "certain period of time" then they can have restrictions or something of that nature.

Just my 2 cents, but this is getting ridiculous!!

2@low8 · Post by **2@low8** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:17 am

How about removing Baggerly and Handley from the directors board? Seems simple. If you live in the areas they represent on the board it is time to run for a position. It cost about 1500 dollars to apply, I'm sure we can help. Do we have anyone in the printing business? They could help also(banners and signs). Are we going up against extreme enviros?

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:51 am

The reason the lock was mentioned, we are trying to convince the Casitas board members that the boat hasn't been operated on any other lake outside of thier lake. Not all boats have steering wheels and those that do, the wheel is easily removed. You need a belt and suspender type of guarantee, the board has already made that crystal clear.
Tom

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:59 am

There is no 100% guarrantee.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:16 am

100% - perhaps not. 99.9999%, definite possibility. Anything to appease and prevent further closures, and hopefully gain a re-opening or two. A serialized seal process would be nearly foolproof and should satisfy even the most unreasonable critic.

A passport-style book is too easy to manipulate... cook the books, two-book shuffle, etc... the truckers have been doing that for years!

While it is ridiculous, it is reality. Drastic measures are necessary, and we have to demonstrate an unreasonably high level of cooperation if we want to preserve our 'right' (really just a privilege) to recreate. Just thankfully we have some reasonable folks such as Jeff Leatherman, Ranger Rob, etc. on our side, as well as the guys battling back like Ron, JB, et al.

Roger

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:35 am

maybe we can get them to open lake mathews next.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:39 am

I had once hoped for that, but now that it is already infested I wouldn't launch there if they did (which isn't likely).

We need more, not less, lakes for recreation!!!!

Glad we have DVL at our disposal (for now)... I'd hate to think what I'd do if they closed it.

Roger

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:46 am

Its all up to the water districts.. one already acted and look.. wait until the rest of the water districts get there day in court. Looks like its back to Pelagic's and Homeguard's in the near future.

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:21 am

tunaman wrote:I had once hoped for that, but now that it is already infested I wouldn't launch there if they did (which isn't likely).

We need more, not less, lakes for recreation!!!!

Glad we have DVL at our disposal (for now)... I'd hate to think what I'd do if they closed it.

Roger

Bouque Canyon reservoir would get my vote. Owned and operated by the city of LA and paid for public taxes and bonds. No quagga's and lots of big bass.
Tom

Ray L. · Post by **Ray L.** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:04 pm

Well just so all of you know.
Cachuma is up for a vote on tues.
I have spken with Eric and I will say that it is not a water board but the county supervisors doing the vote.
Eric has some info I gave him and it may slow them down a bit.
At least I hope so anyway.

micropterus · Post by **micropterus** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:08 pm

California Lakes Quagga Mussel Verification Stickers

1. Ultimately this should be a California State "wide" system administered by the Department of Fish and Game in conjuction with the Department of Motor Vehicles.

2. Lake Casitas should be the "Pilot Project" lake working in conjunction with the 'Coalition Of Clean Lakes" and the project would need to be approved and sanctioned by the Lake Casitas Municipal Water District Board of Directors and the Dept. Of Fish and Game.

3. Concept - This concept assumes that the boat inspection procedure would need to be continued and conducted when deemed necessary. Each participating lake should know the most recent lake that any particular boat has visited including the date and time that the Verification Sticker was issued. Boats that do not have a current valid sticker for a particular lake, including those arriving from out of state would need need to be inspected and have a new sticker affixed to the hull by a lake staff employee prior to being granted access to the lake.

a. Each boat requesting entry into to each respective lake would have to have a valid California Lakes Quagga Mussel Verification Sticker.

b. The Sticker would need to contain the following information :

b1. Lake Logo
b2. State Of California CF Number
b3. Calendar Date and Time Stamp of Issue
b4. Bar Code - a computerized link to all DMV information related to boats registered in California. (phase II system feature for future implementation of DMV interface)

c. The Sticker should be placed on the hull of the boat next to the State Of California CF Number (or as near as possible).

d. Each participating lake would need to have on site the computer hardware and software to generate Verification Stickers and track and record "boat traffic". Initially, this would be Lake Casitas.

e. For those boat owners wishing to "borrower" a Verification Sticker from another boat would find it difficult with the CF Number on the sticker.

Just some thoughts that would need to be expanded on. Please shoot holes in concept and/or add some features .... This would take some time to develop ....

Dan Curtis

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:08 pm

some guy lake mathews is totally infested from what i hear

jack65274 · Post by **jack65274** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:29 pm

I only fish a few times a year and havent fished Casitas for many years. I do however follow this board and others avidly as a fan of fishing and outdoor interests. I applaud the efforts of everyone in this matter. I am appalled as a taxpayer and citizen of this country that such a small interest group can take away something so dear to me. I personally believe that this issue will be decided in only one manner and that is in a Court of Law. As far as I am concerned the sooner that process starts the better.

jack65274 · Post by **jack65274** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:36 pm

ps- I may also be considered to have "done nothing" so far. However I will be first in line to donate to the legal fund whenever the ball starts rolling. I agree with others who feel this fight should be fought for everyone who wants to go there....not just locals. I think most of us who are older and experienced realize what kind of morons usually sit on these political boards such as the water district. I doubt that they can be reasoned with and, if not, why keep wasting time. The only thing they will understand is blunt force applied either legally or politically.

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