Where are they now?

[Rick G]

It is a more "relaxed" setting. The BBQ before is fun. And any bite is exciting. Rick G.

[Schneider Fishing]

And the steaks with potatoes and drinks were GREAT!!

[Ray L.]

very interesting stuff guys. Many view points that is for sure.
I do notice a trend and that is time and funds.
I also see people spread out all over the place.
Yes az. gets good draws. If you really look some do get horrible draws. There is 1 team circuit down there that outdraws them all. It gets 90 to over 100 boats a tournament. Others only get 15 to 20 boats.
Havasu does draw well. First the fishing is good so that brings them out. Second many more people are moving that direction.
I like some of the ideas I have read. I do understand the night tournament thing. Guys love it because it is different. Also things are run a little bit different. You eat before you go out. Everyone is on a more level field because of the 5 m.p.h.

[buddy brown]

More night tournaments would be great. Bigger fish, better bite, no 3lb test and pink worms, big black jigs, buzzbaits, big worms, the lake lice are at home watching TV, peace and quiet...

[Waterdog007]

Brian,

The summer night tourneys are simple.......(3) fish limit and a better bite. (3) 5's is easier than (5) 5's. That the way the average, and if you add financially strapped anglers thinks. Again, these are the majority of the people missing from yours and other tourneys.

Like you have said, it's gambling.....and if your opportunities are limited....you wait for better odds.

This is why we need some Pro/Am's. Give the newbies some training and confidence in what their doing and in the process boost Team Tournament involvement at the same time.

The lead guys need to foster the newcomers or the tourney groups loss on a whole.

my .02

M. Lewis

[Brian Linehan]

Good points. However, nobody seemed to be too worried about me when I was a newbie and was donating weekly to Dana Rosen, Mike Brakebill, and Aaron Martens.

Lets face it, we have all donated at one time or another. I don't care who you are.

Not really sure that the Pro/Am deal really works on our little lakes. I think a lot of guys aren't comfortable sharing anything with people outside of my circle.

Other than too many orgs, nothing has changed. We were going through a major recession in the early 90's yet we still had 70-80 boats.

Interesting stuff and I'm really interested in all of your viewpoints.

Brian

[Al M]

I think you all hit it right on the "money".Me and Rex fished our 1st tourney (ABA Perris) back in Nov. 1994(time sure flies).I remember putting $20 bucks in the truck and still had a quarter tank left when I got home.Back then 80 to 100 plus boats was the norm.Top Ten was an accomplishment and if you finished in the top 20 you could possibly break even.I would go on Wed.'s,Rex on Fri.'s,then we would go together on Sun.'s.The week before cuz of the off limits.Being able to prefish alot was the key.We did not know anyone at the time so we did it ourselves.Nowadays I cant even take my boat out on DVL and we have a 180 mile round trip to get there.The cost is the key factor,prefish is a must if you plan on doing well.This year we decided to fish NBW because they had the largest draws,we tried a 100% bass but after seeing the turnout at the first one we said,not worth it.We curently are in third and are not even close to breaking even.
Now I dont want to bum anyone out and this might be extreme,but maybe for next years season we should all get together and put up a vote on this message board,and fish whatever org wins.If we all come together and fish stricly one org at DVL imagine the possibilities.I vote for 100% bass next year with a fishoff at Havasu,maybe 7 tournaments,one a month,that will bring back the #s.Everybody stick with the winner of the poll.
Oh and I almost forgot,A few years ago this thing popped up called the SWBA ,It is what the ABA was for us back in 1994.Large draws,good competition,affordable $120 gets you all in,close to home,$5 bucks to newport,10 to long beach,20 to Dana,and #1 it put the fun back in tourney fishing.Have met and made friends with a whole bunch of new guys,who are just as competitive as anyone out at the lakes.I can honestly say that next year if things do not change dramatically in the freshwater seen(bigger participation)It could be the 1st time we dont fish a freswater circuit since we started in 1994.

[Waterdog007]

Agreed Brian.....as I mention in a previous posted, I admire the time, knowledge and network you guys have created.

Just thought I'd throw something out there that I hear from time to time.

Food for thought!!!

M. Lewis

[hippie]

you know Al Did I hear off limits. I thought the off limits was great but to many cry babies. It really made the playing field fair. In the beginning of the year when the fish bunch up the same guys were at the top who spent a few days pre fishing. Its all fair and thats how it is . Grover is the one who pushed dropping the off limits. He has alot of guys that don't have real jobs its cool and all . So be it I'm not whining just stating what I seen happen some guys like the old days of off limits. But the Governor of so. ca. bass fishing put an end to it. I believe Ricks voice carries alot of weight. You do sponsor alot of fishing and represent well. Your like the God father out here and alot of people in this world are followers and jump on your wagon. So be it. The guys that are on top do there homework and deserve there checks. I'm not saying that, so take a chill pill now. I believe the off limits thing burned alot of people out too. So Grover tell everyone to fish 100% DV next year and I believe It will prevail, but then again you endorse ABA and they don't get the draw, but they scared and left a bad taste in to many peoples mouths.

[macinckirk]

you know Al Did I hear off limits. I thought the off limits was great but to many cry babies. It really made the playing field fair. In the beginning of the year when the fish bunch up the same guys were at the top who spent a few days pre fishing. Its all fair and thats how it is . Grover is the one who pushed dropping the off limits. He has alot of guys that don't have real jobs its cool and all . So be it I'm not whining just stating what I seen happen some guys like the old days of off limits. But the Governor of so. ca. bass fishing put an end to it. I believe Ricks voice carries alot of weight. You do sponsor alot of fishing and represent well. Your like the God father out here and alot of people in this world are followers and jump on your wagon. So be it. The guys that are on top do there homework and deserve there checks. I'm not saying that, so take a chill pill now. I believe the off limits thing burned alot of people out too. So Grover tell everyone to fish 100% DV next year and I believe It will prevail, but then again you endorse ABA and they don't get the draw, but they scared and left a bad taste in to many peoples mouths.

[TEAMDEADMONEY]

making uneducated comments. JK...

As far as the payouts and turnouts....NBW has the Best payout AND the best turnouts for the DV region...BY FAR. With one comes the other I know..But...Their guaranteed payback is the best thing going. And they top it off with a Havasu Championship. WON has the 2nd best turnout at DVL but it still doesnt compare to the turnout NBW gets. In my opinion if Bill wasnt the Director for the DVL region those number would go down dramatically..much like the turnouts the ABA 100% and anglers choice get. Alot of us come out and support Bills region because he makes them fun with alot of trash talk and joking around going on while he still puts on a smooth event each time out....But the payouts are HORRIBLE. Thats the down fall of those events.
100 % has an excellent payout but it is centered around the top 3. AND they get low turnout numbers. Better numbers would bring the payouts down the standings more. Also if they had a Havasu championship that would help too. Brian is a good director and has his following like Bill does. Unfortunately, there isnt enough money for people to spread around these days for extra events.
The turnouts for 100% would take a serious dive if Brian wasnt the director.
100%, Anglers choice and ABA simply suffer from the economy.. People spend most of their money on NBW, then WON, ...they simply dont have the extra dough anymore to do every event like we used to.
The only way for this problem to be fixed is if an org goes out of business or just decides to stop doing events at DVL or whatever lake that has a tournament each and every weekend. Less events =bigger turnouts when there is an event..simple as that.

I truely think that NBW has the market share for DV and it has alot to do with the guaranteed payback of 10 spots AND the Havasu fishoff. The Petersons also put on a nice tournament with breakfast and BBQ as well which is also an added cool thing that is nice. People want more for their buck....and right now NBW is winning everyone over.
For me this year it was an easy decision to Carissa and I to Fish the NBW events because they guaranteed the payback which was nice because I didnt know what to expect results wise after Carissa took a year off and also because this would be my first season at DVL on my own in a series. Also because of the Havasu year end event which we look forward to every year.
When I got started in tournaments there were 70-90 boats at Perris and Silverwood. But then there was only WON and ABA...which proves my point about less events=more people. Heck I remember a charity night tournament at Perris that drew 100-125 boats every year. Now there are too many lakes, too many orgs, and a really really bad economy. Not a good combination...
Until either the economy changes big time and until NBW stops the guaranteed payback, nothing is going to change at DVL tournaments. Some stuff can be done by other orgs to help their numbers like Havasu fishoffs, better payouts, etc etc but as I said until the economy changes and National Bass still has the Guaranteed payout, things wont change much any time soon.
Its just the way things are Pac-Man...


Pete

[Ray L.]

This is soooo funny... You all think it is only D.V.L.
Maybe you should look at the other regions as well.
You will see a drop in all of them.

[Brian Linehan]

Pete, everyone pays a 1 in 5 payback. As far as the payback, nothing beats 100%. Of course the payback is top heavy for the top 3 teams when you only draw 18 boats!

If we had National Bass turnouts, you wouldn't even believe what the paybacks could be. Like I said, NBW runs the best overall tournaments, but nothing pays out more than 100%. I encourage you to compare Pete.

[Ricky-S]

I fished a lot of team tournaments back when I was in college. Most of them drew 80-100 boats per event.

That was back when the events were spread out between 4-5 lakes and you had to learn how to fish different bodies of water. That was also when there were only two orgs offering tournaments and there wasn't a tournament every weekend.

My thinking is that there are far too many orgs, too many events every weekend, too many people only fish one body of water, and the economy isn't the best right now.

Someone needs to come up with something different and exciting. Like the Iron Man for example. Most guys now days fish the first event in each region on their home/favorite lake and then continue with the org that they did the best in.

Today it's all about winning. Back then, for me, it was about learning the water and getting to compete against the best on different bodies of water.

[Kevin]

100% has the best payback. No if's and's or but's. National Bass would be next. For a team tournament, they run what I consider to be the most professional run event I've seen. Once 100% has a South fishoff at Havasu, the participation will rise. Remember, it took several years for NBW to really get off the ground and look where they are today.

[Fish'n'Fool]

Why not have classes and combine the sponcers and tounament?

If you place 1-5 10 times in a year or something like that you move up a class.

If you are a beginner or have only fished a few you are in a differnat class etc.

You could even do this now with less payouts and more places pay in more classes. money might be less but more guys i think would enter.

Why go fishing when for a couple bucks more you have a chance to win something?

If its about the money...then how much money do you need??

I know DVL has a trout and bass tournement this weekend for 150 bucks? lets see how many people enter them? And if it a lot more.........why? cheaper fee and more prizes? I don't know ....any ideas?

[TEAMDEADMONEY]

about other regions lacking the turnouts as well. DVL though is the lake I fish most often so I dont notice the decline as much at other venues. It doesnt surprise me though because of the economy. Maybe some of the reasons I listed also apply to other lakes as well.

Brian, I know 100% has a great payout. Theres no argueing with 100%...it is what it is. But the payout isnt the only thing that sways people one way or the other. Its a combination of things...
Payout..
turnout..
Championship venue..
Good Directors..
BBQ..
etc
etc..
And yes as silly as it seems, the BBQ at the end of the day helps sway people because they feel like they are getting "more bang for their buck" as I said earlier.

Its NOT your fault that you only get 18 boats......As I mentioned, I think your low turn outs have something to do with Not having a South Championship at Havasu... That would be the quickest fix to get your numbers up. Once your numbers come up the payout will go further down the list if that is how your payout is structured. If your payout is not structured to pay down the list then the numbers will still be down because people want to still have a shot at a check for weighing a nice bag (19-20 lbs)especially at the ULTRA COMPETITIVE DVL events. Sometimes as you know at DVL the top 8-10 teams have 20+ lbs and only the guys with 27 26 25 and 24 lbs get a check. Thats something that is enticing about NBW. A team can weigh 19-20 lbs get 10th place and get a check.

Time to feed Sky...

Call me tomorrow afternoon Brian.

Pete

[one fish wonder]

I love the idea that everyone votes and sticks to it for next year. As mentioned, I am hoping to still fish two orgs. next year (100% and National) are the two I feel are best for me. I agree that 100% needs a Havasu fish off. Brain I just wonder if this whole come together thing is even possible or just a pipe dream as I have thought this for about a year now and was pleased to see Al bring it to the board. As I am new to this sport, I hope one of the influential people in our area can make a change to benefit the fisherman. Fingers are crossed!

Todd

[Brian Linehan]

I already know what I'm fishing next year. Kevin and I will be fishing all of the National Bass events at DVL and 100% BASS.

[N.A.R]

We will be following in your footsteps Brian...

NBW and 100% next year. DVL

You keep talking about what the paybacks would be like if you had a 50-60 field..... Well what would they be like? lets here it....

Is their a Federation Circuit on DVL just curious...

[Brian Linehan]

It all depends on how many enter the options, but we had a 34 boat field at DVL last year that paid $4070. Mitch Southern and Jason Akins won that one. That should give you an idea of how good the paybacks for 100% BASS would be even if we only drew 35 boats.

[Rick G]

Jason, FYI, the off limits was brought up by Mr. Linehan and the majority of the anglers were in favor of it.........untill they did it. I was always in favor for a limited off limits, like Thursday, Friday, but that was shot down by the Tournament organizations and too much of a hassle. Yes, I do support ABA, just like I have BBQ's going in lots of other T/O's. Anglers Marine supports Bass tournaments period. From club to FLW. My personal fishing schedule all revolves around the boat show schedule. Brian Linehan asked me before the Jamboree what the show schedule was and there have been no conflicts with his trail and ABA, hence that is what I try and support. NBW and WON have had events on the shows this year which takes me out. We have had this talk before, so please listen if you are interested. If you pay ALL THE MONEY BACK DURING THE YEAR, THERE IS VERY LITTLE FOR THE FISHOFF. ABA, like them or not PAYS THE BEST AT THE FISHOFF,TOP TO BOTTOM. The people that run NBW are as nice as it gets, and if it was not for them digging into their own pockets at the last 2 years fishoff's, all the anglers would have been hosed because their Boat Dealer sponser screwed them at the last minute both years. Now they have a new one so hopefully this year will be better. ABA and WON are not going anywhere, they have years of experience and good Boat company support. I did not expect this topic to rebuild the system. Just stimulate some good talk, and find out where the heck all the old DVL killers have gone.

But, just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. Rick G.

[buddy brown]

But, just when I thought I was done, they pull me back in. Rick G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIS1inmjFc

[N.A.R]

Thanks Brian... Look forward to next year...

HEAR and THERE sorry.....

[Ray L.]

Rick,
This is getting some good info out there. I hope some are reading this like I am. I see some good stuff in this thread.

[Rick G]

Oh, and another thing Hippie, better get back in the store and start buying some tackle or you are going to end up with a 200hp mercury powerhead under your sheets. lol Rick G.

[hippie]

I know who started the off limits Brian did a great job. I just wrote that i seen you against it from day one. what i seen last year was in the beginning of the year certain people weren't winning all the derbies. when the big fish school up and its either a early morning window and a afternoon bite. the winners were more spread out. This season was alittle different same people dominated that have the time to prefish. Cause everyone knows dv can change in a flash so the average weekend warrior will spend the first couple hours relocating the fish they had the weekend before by then the bite shut down. Let me also say this loud and clear i AIN'T WHINING the dominating crew and draggers do there homework and deserve there checks. I for one won't let it stop me from competeing and donating I enjoy tourny fishing.
What I also seen was that the GODFATHER GROVER voiced his views of not liking the off limits and many of the people jumped on his wagon. Yes you sponsor and support all the org. no ? to that I love my $150 hot dog after won bass. Just pointing out how much weight your voice carries down here in SO. CA. You have alot of respect from many people out here thats why they follow, I'm just throwing out there the off limits issue and believe it worked until you voiced dislike. YOu know my hard earned money goes to your shop cause Bass pro shops carries such a small amount of what I use and last chance is to far away, and there prices always seem higher than yours. Must cost more to ship to the desert

[Rick G]

In the case Jason of Kyle and his various partners including myself, the "Offlimits Year" was a pretty good one for us, so there was not much complaining from me. Now the local businesses and the Lake Management were really pissed about the offlimits and put the most pressure on the Org's to give it the Ax. In fact I remember a pretty large post on this site about that the same ol teams still won, off or on. I am just like you man, working more than I like and trying to save a few $ here and there. Next time you are in the shop say hello. Rick G.

[hippie]

i remember that year and you guys had alot of seconds yes you were cashing checks ,but if i remeber you guys weren't getting the big WWWWWWWWW. second loser as i recal I may be wrong. Someone said networking earlier, and please you know and many know your guy's network is far better than others.Rick I'm not going any farther with this cause its dumb , just stated what I seen, and heard from others mumbling. Kyle has alot of talent and many others of your team. Will is a quiet sick stick, nothing but respect for the young fellers. Actually probably more jealousy, youd be a liar if you said you weren't a hater. Big POLAR BEAR JOHN, and worshiper live on the lake. LOOKat Pat Casey this season hes usually got a bag, and he's on the lake more than i'm at work. I always try and say hi, but rick i refuse to KISS THE RING. your going to have to send out the big dogs.Peace and out GODFATHER