A very interesting story by George Kramer on the home page

[Ray L.]

If you have not read it please do.
George points out some interesting things about tournament org.'s
You may or may not agree with George all the time but this is a very interesting read.

[Robert F]

Carelessly misleading as far as FLW info is concerned. 50,000 Ranger bonus was for the Tour Open events with a 200,000 first prize in '08 as will be in '09. They state that the Series and qualifying Tour events will still have a 125,000 first prize with 25,000 Ranger contingency with one quarter less participants. The only contingency difference concerns the Stren series with a big change for the back of the boat. First place is now a boat with a 5,000 Ranger bonus instead of the other way around. So actually they have eased the pressure to be a Ranger boat owner. I see FLW putting the pressure on other organizations to up the ante. FLW has brought the non-endemics to the sport and boosted paybacks to unheard of levels. One in three with the lowest check being 250 percent of the entry. WON needs to wake up and get busy with the marketing machine. Most of us are not going to settle for a one in 6-7 chance of your money back. Hutch can spin the "value" of that boat anyway he wants. Some have tasted a real crawdad and won't settle for the artificials again.

[reellittlephish]

Hi Ray,

What happened to Fun?

I'm not fishing tournaments, but I might join a club if the costs were low. Maybe even free for weekend tournaments. But the're not. Room or camp fees, food, boat fuel, truck gas....It costs me over $200 to go from Las Vegas to Havasu for the weekend....

Sponsors should realize they can support low cost tournament action and people will buy their products. Gratuitous good will goes a long way...
The "pros" can only be stretched financially so much. I agree. Besides to me, it doesn't fell like anything other than a spectator sport in that venue.

There is a vast untapped potential in local fishermen who might enter a tournament (timed fishing event) if the fee was low and the prize was appropriate.

Tom

[Ray L.]

glad to see some of you read it.
I read it and just found it interesting and thought some of you should read it.
Not talking about fun or talking about any orgs. out there just thought it was a good read and others should read it as well.

[Robert F]

I hope the thread stays up. Not looking to "bash" WON as most of my comments can fall on all organization's shoulders. Just want to set the record straight. We are there to fish. The orgs are there to make the best experience possible.

[ash]

Hi Ray,

What happened to Fun?

I'm not fishing tournaments, but I might join a club if the costs were low. Maybe even free for weekend tournaments. But the're not. Room or camp fees, food, boat fuel, truck gas....It costs me over $200 to go from Las Vegas to Havasu for the weekend....

Sponsors should realize they can support low cost tournament action and people will buy their products. Gratuitous good will goes a long way...
The "pros" can only be stretched financially so much. I agree. Besides to me, it doesn't fell like anything other than a spectator sport in that venue.

There is a vast untapped potential in local fishermen who might enter a tournament (timed fishing event) if the fee was low and the prize was appropriate.Tom

Tom IMHO never beeing sponsored, anglers shot themselves in the foot with this one. We as a group whored ourselves out to anyone that would wink at us for product patches, and ego. The bottom line is, these patch pirates dont produce for manufactures and stores, for the most part. Now there are a few guys that work their tales off at shows and getting stuff into stores and into the anglers hands.

On top of that there are thousands of tournaments every weekend probably in California alone! Where does a sponsor put this money ? As a member of a club we have a few key people that we turn to for support on a grass roots level and these companies continue to market through the grass roots.

But if a company needs to determine do we budget 2k-3k to a tournament circuit to 200 guys or do we spend that money in ad space in Bass Anglers Guide or Bass West that has thousands of viewers - it just makes since that they would put that money into a place where it works harder for them.

I am just starting to fish in tournaments this year after a long long time. I have chosen WRL 100% because of the paybacks and the new format. So Georges observations are once again at least on the pulse of what is going on in our community and as always George is the man cause here we all are discussing his rant

[Robert F]

Tom IMHO never beeing sponsored, anglers shot themselves in the foot with this one. We as a group whored ourselves out to anyone that would wink at us for product patches, and ego. The bottom line is, these patch pirates dont produce for manufactures and stores, for the most part.

BING capital "O". There are guys that walk around in Ranger jerseys that don't even own a boat! Nobody pays me a dime and nobody gets my billboard space. Except for the free hats More need to look at "Pro" as just that. Get paid, get ad space. Might change things considerably. Biggest problem is there are too few dollars spinning around the endemic side of fishing. FLW has figured out that we do spend money on other products and their talent pool has the ability to sell those goods. When you can expand your product marketing arm you are talking big money for the fishermen and bigger money for the org. Charlie Evans is not feeling the pain at the pump IMO.

[Brian Linehan]

The orgs are there to make the best experience possible.

Actually, they are no diiferent than any other business...they need to make a profit first and foremost. Don't forget that.

[sTony]

FLW has figured out that we do spend money on other products and their talent pool has the ability to sell those goods. When you can expand your product marketing arm you are talking big money for the fishermen and bigger money for the org. Charlie Evans is not feeling the pain at the pump IMO.

Try to keep in mind that FLW has one sponsor, WalMart, that was key to all those non-endemic sponsorships. Land o' Lakes, Duracell, Kelloggs, Suave, Tylenol, and so on. That one key WalMart sponsorship has lead to all the others and if WalMart ever decided to pull the plug they'd likely follow rather quickly. Beyond that there are three key FLW sponsors that make their program work. WalMart, Ranger Boats and the National Guard.

It's hard for me to imagine comparing FLW and it's fleet of sponsors to what happens on a regional level. It takes big money to attract big money and Irwin Jacobs and Genmar have got the deep pockets to build a significant program. I don't believe that any of the regional players have the same economic means, not even close.

Because of that FLW can put out any type of show it desires. The regional players can't afford the satellite uploads so that they can stream out live coverage of their events. All the pomp and circumstance that you see at the top level events is something that isn't easily duplicated on the regional level. The finances just aren't there. And if anglers don't support the regional players they'll eventually dry up and go away.

When you boil it all down though, if Jacobs or WalMart were to opt out of FLW then the whole thing would likely topple pretty quickly.

sTony

[GKramer]

I stand corrected on the exact nature of the FLW incentive, Robert. Thanks. No attempt to mislead. I think the point still stands that the organization is adjusting programs in the marketplace, and no one could argue: they remain the biggest pundit for their sponsor Ranger.

[Robert F]

Sorry George. Fifteen years of spankings in newspaper photography. Just giving a little back. I am sure there was no intent to mislead. I do not believe anything has changed as far as the FLW/Ranger relationship. This is a connected at the hip deal. You only have to look at the name they chose for the organization to see who this group revolves around. Can't fault them for that. There are a load of other top level boat builders that any existing organization could build the same program with. Look at the Bass Champs trail. Putting quite a few Skeeters on the water. That said I still feel the boat companies do not have the the horsepower to get tournament bass fishing to the top of the hill. The Walmart deal is key. It is no secret how FLW and Walmart have brought the other players in to their relationship. The main point is they didi it and it is helping their fishermen. Wrap deals and advertising packages for the media side mean the cost of running the tournament does not have to come out of the fishermens pocket. Just because Walmart is tied up by FLW does not mean the game is over. There are many corporations like Walmart that should be courted to take the burden off the fishermen in running these tournaments. WON could turn in to a home improvement flyer with little effect on the fishermen that read it. I would not have a problem looking through ads for paint and wallpaper if it helped return green cash to my tournament participation. Organizations had it easy for many years. Now it is time to show us who can step up and make Professional bass fishing a profession.

[Rick G]

Sorry George. Fifteen years of spankings in newspaper photography. Just giving a little back. I am sure there was no intent to mislead. I do not believe anything has changed as far as the FLW/Ranger relationship. This is a connected at the hip deal. You only have to look at the name they chose for the organization to see who this group revolves around. Can't fault them for that. There are a load of other top level boat builders that any existing organization could build the same program with. Look at the Bass Champs trail. Putting quite a few Skeeters on the water. That said I still feel the boat companies do not have the the horsepower to get tournament bass fishing to the top of the hill. The Walmart deal is key. It is no secret how FLW and Walmart have brought the other players in to their relationship. The main point is they didi it and it is helping their fishermen. Wrap deals and advertising packages for the media side mean the cost of running the tournament does not have to come out of the fishermens pocket. Just because Walmart is tied up by FLW does not mean the game is over. There are many corporations like Walmart that should be courted to take the burden off the fishermen in running these tournaments. WON could turn in to a home improvement flyer with little effect on the fishermen that read it. I would not have a problem looking through ads for paint and wallpaper if it helped return green cash to my tournament participation. Organizations had it easy for many years. Now it is time to show us who can step up and make Professional bass fishing a profession.

Finally someone who gets the big picture. Won Bass will never get bigger beating the same ol drum. Rick G.

[mark poulson]

[Finally someone who gets the big picture. Won Bass will never get bigger beating the same ol drum. Rick G.[/quote]

Rick's right. If you keep doing the same thing, you'll keep getting the same results.
For real change, you need to do something different.
Since WON has already got the Open as a major in place, if they took the lead in putting together a West Coast path to the open, with all of the other tournament trails AOYs in fish offs for Open spots, they'd have a chance to have true regional clout, and to attract major sponsors and T.V. coverage.
And I can speak from personal experience when I say beating the same old drum for over 60 years hasn't made it any bigger.