McCain

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:14 pm

This guy isn't fit for janitor of a school, let alone President of the United States. How can anyone support someone willing to send our sons and daughters off to Iraq or Afganistan, yet doesn't support them fully, although he would have you believe he does, but many know better.

Since everyone is at least a bit familiar with John McCainâ€™s record when it comes to strolling through a market in Baghdad with hundreds of his closest guards, or how he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years (except when he flip flops on that).

But not that many really, truly know just how horrific his voting record is when it comes to the troops. And it is pretty consistent â€“ whether it is for armor and equipment, for veteranâ€™s health care, for adequate troop rest or anything that actually, you know, supports our troops.

This is chock full of links to the roll call votes, and the roll call votes have links to the actual underlying bills and amendments. I present this so that there is support and things that can be rattled off when saying that McCain is not a friend of the military. Feel free to use it as you want, but this can be tied into the "Double Talk Express". But here is a very quick statement - John McCain skipped close to a dozen votes on Iraq, and on at least another 10 occasions, he voted against arming and equipping the troops, providing adequate rest for the troops between deployments and for health care or other benefits for veterans.

In mid 2007, Senator Reid noted that McCain missed 10 of the past 14 votes on Iraq. However, here is a summary of a dozen votes (two that he missed and ten that he voted against) with respect to Iraq, funding for veterans or for troops, including equipment and armor. I have also included other snippets related to the time period when the vote occurred.

September 2007: McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments. At the time, nearly 65% of people polled in a CNN poll indicted that "things are going either moderately badly or very badly in Iraq.

July 2007: McCain voted against a plan to drawdown troop levels in Iraq. At the time, an ABC poll found that 63% thought the invasion was not worth it, and a CBS News poll found that 72% of respondents wanted troops out within 2 years.

March 2007: McCain was too busy to vote on a bill that would require the start of a drawdown in troop levels within 120 days with a goal of withdrawing nearly all combat troops within one year. Around this time, an NBC News poll found that 55% of respondents indicated that the US goal of achieving victory in Iraq is not possible. This number has not moved significantly since then.

February 2007: For such a strong supporter of the escalation, McCain didnâ€™t even bother to show up and vote against a resolution condemning it. However, at the time a CNN poll found that only 16% of respondents wanted to send more troops to Iraq (that number has since declined to around 10%), while 60% said that some or all should be withdrawn. This number has since gone up to around 70%.

June 2006: McCain voted against a resolution that Bush start withdrawing troops but with no timeline to do so.

May 2006: McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.

April 2006: McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.

March 2006: McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.

March 2004: McCain once again voted for abusive tax loopholes over veterans when he voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes. Jeez, McCain really loves those tax loopholes for corporations, since he voted for them over our veterans' needs.

October 2003: McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.

April 2003: McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.

August 2001: McCain voted against increasing the amount available for medical care for veterans by $650,000,000. To his credit, he also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, which he now supports making permanent, despite the dire financial condition this country is in, and despite the fact that he indicated in 2001 that these tax cuts unfairly benefited the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

So there it is. John McCain is yet another republican former military veteran who likes to talk a big game when it comes to having the support of the military. Yet, time and time again, he has gone out of his way to vote against the needs of those who are serving in our military. If he canâ€™t even see his way to actually doing what the troops want, or what the veterans need, and he doesnâ€™t have the support of veterans, then how can he be a credible commander in chief?

Veterans for Common Sense
Post Office Box 15514
Washington, DC 20003

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:38 pm

As bad as your outlay makes it look . I respectfully say that the alternative to McCain would be the modern day of Jimmy Carter .Remember THOSE tax days? Or for those that recognize the "Magnificent leadership" of Clinton ..ever wonder how the surplus got as large as it was? Mathmatics...tax...then tax once more ,then reduce the military / defense spending to what it was to 3 administrations earlier ,then tax again . Now ,I nor you can actually realize the costs of 9/11 and various terror attacks,some that happened,some that were thwarted and the aftermath . No way .So ,that being said , I still say "better than kick there butts there ,than over here" I am not a life long "McCain loyalists" Such a thing? , But its pretty clear to me...which is the lessor of the twom evils...for enjoyment purposes....http://www.youtube.com/v/4FCNKwHRCQM

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:55 pm

You have bought into the GOP rhetoric. Go out and find the truth.
Today under Bushs plan, 2/3 of this nations corporations don't pay a single penny of income tax. Yet they have moved good paying jobs offshore and closed towns down lock, stock and barrel. This is out of greed, not because they don't make a profit, but because they want more. And McCain has publicly stated he plans more of the same. Are you that well off, is your savings account that fat? Is your healthcare that good? Is your home value soaring? Don't you want our troops to be fully protected? Most of the bills surrounding protection for troops, increase in spending for VA Hospitals got a yes vote from Obama.

But don't listen to me. Spend one day, and research all the things most important to you, look at their voting records, look at what they've been involved in and who with. I did this and came to my own conclusions regarding MCain and Obama. Their is plenty of rumor, find out the facts.

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:18 pm

Ok..first off...the 2/3 figure is as much off the rocker as the rocker in Colo at the moment,lol . I am one of those nations corps. And honestly...do the math again...Ive been self employed 12 years now..I pay more taxes each year now than I made gross pay my last year as an employee . Take the figures and bend them any way you like - fact . Another way to look at it...0ver 85% of the tax revenue paid to the US government comes from the top 15% of its people -income being the denominator to decide ,again fact . Now ,believe me..if I could move my company away from Cal , where ever .India,lol

.I would...the b/s I go thru with local,state fed regulations (I have an AutoBody Paint shop) if freakin crazy . On the "close and move away" I think an Automaker has done that -real terrible news honestly...THEY COULDNT MAKE MONEY PAYING 30 PER HOUR FOR WORKING PEOPLE PLUS ANOTHER 30 PER HOUR FOR THE RETIRED UNION WORKERS!! On little cheap cars ,yet the UAW wouldnt budge the quote was" We will not take any reduction" So byby. I understand,the employees are not as valuable as the owner...You ever think the employees of Microsoft could run that company as well as Gates? Fat chance..No my account is not that fat..health care...got news for ya..you abuse your own health..you pay for your own insurance .I cant as an employer tell you what to do one your away time..eat too many BonBons?.drugs,motorcycles( Im guilty on bikes) its your life..I pay for mine-you pay for yours . Btw..did that link work? Truth?

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:52 pm

CharlieS. wrote:Or for those that recognize the "Magnificent leadership" of Clinton ..ever wonder how the surplus got as large as it was? Mathmatics...tax...then tax once more ,then reduce the military / defense spending to what it was to 3 administrations earlier ,then tax again...

All that taxing and the economy was still the best its ever been. Gotta love that Bill. Those were the good old days, huh Charlie?

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:02 pm

I doubt that you are one of this Nations Corps, most likely you a a small closely held corporation, and you don't need to tell me how much you get raked over the coals, I know firsthand. The brunt of taxes are born first by the middle class and a close second by small to medium privately held companies. It's a whole different game beyond 100M.

Like I said, do your own fact checking, I'm not going to take your word, and I wouldn't expect another intelligent person to take mine. Check on your own. Take a look at McCains voting record and tell me the man is for small business and the middle class. The voting records are easiest to find and they are indisputable fact.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:35 pm

At least McCain has a voting record.

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:58 pm

yes he does, not a very good one. George Bush didn't have a voting record, niether did Reagan, Kennedy had one, not much though. I would say take a look at what he has done in his life, then compare that to either McCain or Bush, he has done more for common people than either McCain or Bush combined. It's not the time spent in Congress, lets face it most don't get very much done, but the quality of the person. McCain isn't USDA Choice by any measurment.

steve0806 · Post by **steve0806** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:05 pm

Your cup of Kool Aid keeps running over, drink some more.

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:12 pm

I would tell you the exact same thing, only McCain is serving you a something a little stronger. Believe what you want, maybe you can refute his real record on G.I.'s, or better yet small business and the middle class? But posting something constructive is something most McCain fans will find a little too difficult. I can't wait to see how he'll respond to questions like Keating 5, Abramoff, or that little tart he's run all over the globe with, should be fun to watch.

steve0806 · Post by **steve0806** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:17 pm

You don't have a clue about McCain's role in the "Keating 5". As I suspect, you are in the Dem. playbook sipping Kool Aid.

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:19 pm

wanna bet? you must have a fetish for kool-aid, no?

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:38 pm

steve0806 wrote:Your cup of Kool Aid keeps running over, drink some more.

Another substantive argument

steve0806 · Post by **steve0806** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:45 pm

Bet what? Sorry, you lose. Robert S. Bennett, Special Counsel of Senate Ethics Committee, early on recommended McCain not be charged with anything. Bennett, a Democrat attorney for many Senate Committees over the years is honest about it. He has said McCain was only included because the other 4 suspects were Democrats and they had to have at least one Republican. Additionally, Robert L. Berke wrote a 9/29/1990 article in the New York Times about the politics of keeping McCain in the "hunt".

So the Dems on the Committee were successful in pulling the wool over your eyes and smearing McCain when there wasn't any evidence of any ethics violations.

Your posts are full of trash.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/keating_five

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:35 am

delta1124 wrote:yes he does, not a very good one. George Bush didn't have a voting record, niether did Reagan, Kennedy had one, not much though. I would say take a look at what he has done in his life, then compare that to either McCain or Bush, he has done more for common people than either McCain or Bush combined. It's not the time spent in Congress, lets face it most don't get very much done, but the quality of the person. McCain isn't USDA Choice by any measurment.

Again ,my partialness to McCain doesnt come from me being a lifelong republican . Speak of accomplishments of politicians..and we may all throw up in disapointment if it is needed to talk of several . What (other than promises) has Obama done? Good or bad? Nothing . Talk of HR Clinton ,other than voting for a monument for that 60's movement (ya know ,the Piece/drugs/anti war) hardly earth shattering by anyones standards .Senate of NY? Yea ,right...she wanted a stepping stone..never lived there .good move actually on her part. Talk of McCains "how many houses he owns? Give me a break.who gives a damn? McCain,he has served his country ,an actuall job!! Imagine that. Obama...he was "present" nearly every time he could have done his job . (make a decission!!)Yea,that pisses me off . And now he promises that he will ? Imagine that . I dont have any preconcieved notions that the senator from Az can straighten up US in a few months . I dont have any ideas that the alternative can be trusted either .

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:37 am

Delta, your arguement is weak. If McCain was on the take he would have plenty of his own money but old Cindy has it all. He is a kept man like Kerry. I am not crazy about McCain but when I read the record on Obama standing as one of two state senators against the partial birth abortion ban I was sickened. I am a non-religious pro choice voter but when the baby is out of the canal and breathing on it's own I can't believe anyone could advocate sticking a scalpel in it's brain. That is insanity and just plain murder IMO. That is one of the handful of real issues your boy argued and voted for. Makes him a sick f k in my eyes.

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:32 am

so abortion is the most important issue to you? what are you kidding? abortion should not even be a political topic, but since it is. I don't like it, but to ban all partial birth abortions, even if the mother is in jeapordy is wrong, that is what the ban was about, all partial birth abortions regardless of the mothers health. so if someone you loved was in that predicament, you would let them die?

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:35 am

then vote McCain.

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:24 am

I know what was said. I am also aware of the many trips paid for by Keating which John McCain traveled on, luxury yachts and to resorts, all paid by Keating. we all take what we want from it.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:22 am

Frankly I could give a squat who you support just like you don't care what other people think. We are not going to change anyone's opinion so why waste the effort. My wife is a dumbocrat and thinks the partial birth abortion vote was horrific and she is still going to vote for Barry. No, abortion is not a keystone issue for me but it was one of the only real positions your boy ever took and even though I have gutted and skinned many big game animals that one does turn my stomach. Have a good one and enjoy talking to the wall.

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:25 pm

Today under Bushs plan, 2/3 of this nations corporations don't pay a single penny of income tax.

Thats the stupidest thing I ever heard. While it may be true, it is stupid to present it like that. The fact is that 2/3 of all American corporations are S-Corps (I have 3 of them). S-Corps do not pay corporate taxes! The "corporate tax" is paid by the individual share holders on their PERSONAL income tax, according to the number of shares, or percentage of the company, they own. There are advantages and disadvantages to an S-Corp over a C-Corp, LLC, etc. but tax evasion is definitely not one of the advantages we enjoy.

No country, in the entire history of the world, has ever taxed itself into prosperity. PROVE ME WRONG!

If you raise taxes "on the rich", as Obama will do, you will be cutting the throat of the small business man who has incorporated his business...the one who employs 60% of the nation.

Are you fricking nuts!

Heres another fact... The federal government brought in more revenue under Bush than it did under Clinton. I'm not saying they spent it wisely, Im just pointing out that tax cuts promote growth and prosperity while tax increases restrict it.

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:50 pm

well now, if you have 3 s-corps then you can afford to help get this country out of debt. welcome to the train. it is also been proven time and time again that trickle down economics is plain dumb and does not work, prove me wrong.

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:57 pm

delta1124 wrote:well now, if you have 3 s-corps then you can afford to help get this country out of debt. welcome to the train. it is also been proven time and time again that trickle down economics is plain dumb and does not work, prove me wrong.

How in heck can you get a country out of debt after promissing health insurance to every one free of charge? Any idea the billions that will cost ? Think the war costs alot ? The illegal im. and that associated amount actually amounts to more . Face it...the only reason the Dems promise it is due to the fact that it can be used as a tool,which they dont have to pay for relating to there campaign...we pay for it after .Unique idea..I promise to give you what you should be responsible for in the first place ,and It doesnt cost me one dime..you pay for it in the backside ,,oops. ...I mean in the end

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:08 pm

Once again you show your ignorance Delta. Just because someone incorporates a business, or two, or three, you automatically think they can afford to pay higher taxes. I already pay more taxes in one year then you probably make in three. I am working 12 hours a day, six days a week... I sold my boat to finance my business growth. I am making sacrifices today so that I can reap the rewards in times to come. You probably punch a clock working for a "living wage" and would rather just complain about successful people than work for your own success. You are whats WRONG with America! Increase my taxes and I wont buy that new truck this year, I wont hire those new employees this year, I wont be able to keep this economy rolling, I may even be forced to outsource my administrative tasks to workers in India. If you have ever had a college economics class (which I highly doubt) you would recognize that "trickle down" economics is the only economic plan that will stimulate growth.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:20 pm

getalife wrote:
No country, in the entire history of the world, has ever taxed itself into prosperity. PROVE ME WRONG!

Worth a read

http://homepage.mac.com/j.monro/Taxatio ... vsGNP.html

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:27 pm

you and I are already paying for it through our premiums. I pay 950.00 per month for my wife and I, that is the second largest expense each month. with more and more people each year using emergency rooms for health care, you, me and everyone else are going to pay for the uninsured through our premiums.

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:55 pm

Sickening thought..I wish mine and my wifes was under 1k...alas...we will pay...and we should not .If it wasnt used as a tool to buy votes ,we wouldnt. Plain and simple. Getalife ,pretty much same thing with me...I work harder and more than most ,and support more than my share now . I havent sold my boat (almost have to tell ya-real close) but I havent had it out in 13 months. Completely insane if you ask me , I am . Yea..I have my share of toys and such....although they have been relagated to "garage trophies" ....

I do hope to re-remember how to play when I can.. Again...imagine you being here as a new arrival..legal or not,I dont care....the big American government offers you free medical for you and kids,along with what you make under the table...maybe throw in a few food stamps..gov fight for drivers license,gov tells you that you have rights...who ya gonna vote for?..wait till an undoc person gets the right to vote...

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:26 pm

Thats interesting reading... very dry, but interesting.

First of all, who wrote it? it is unsigned and annonymous so it is probably the rambling blog of some schmuck in New Zeland.

Second of all, he relates taxation to GNP, which we really cannot do. Example: Kuwait is one of the wealthiest nations in the world and they have no income tax at all. Why, because they have huge revenues from oil.

Many countries are "wealthy" due to their natural resources, manufacturing ability, etc. My argument, the one no one has yet disproved, is that no country has ever TAXED itself into prosperity. Taxation does not produce wealth, it redistributes it. And as the government takes more, the businesses move elsewhere and the wealthy move their money out of the economy.

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:29 pm

Yeah Charlie, just wait until Obama gives them amnesty and 30 million new citizens attempt to take advantage of all the handouts. We cannot support this for long (unless of course we take from the "rich" and give to the immigrants). It just makes me sick!

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:34 pm

Peace out brothers

http://www.thedashmovie.com

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:05 pm

Greg,

I read the article you referred to and the first thing that gave me a clue that it was written for political reasons and not to show something different on economic was the author (which I have no idea who he is) use of â€œright wing economistsâ€

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:07 pm

I may take you up on that someday, Marty

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:17 pm

Anything for the Marines

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:18 pm

Marty wrote:Donâ€™t worry Greg, Iâ€™m still working on you and one day you will be a full-fledged Conservative

We all end up conservatives at some point in life. Usually its about the time we lose control of our bowels and bladder.

Marty wrote:eating a meat in front of your wife

The date is wrong, the accident was 1971.

Got him in the center of this google satellite photo.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.96216 ... &t=h&hl=en

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:46 pm

Greg - PM sent

steve0806 · Post by **steve0806** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:58 pm

The baby was already outside the mother's body you idiot. The mother was in no danger. Barry said he voted against the bill because the mother's original intent was to have the baby aborted. The Dr. botched the job. They threw the baby in the trash, alive. For God's sake, don't you read anything?

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:17 pm

then vote McCain. it's really that simple, if abortion is that important to you, then by all means vote against Obama. It doesn't really matter who you vote for, it's not a popular vote and we all know which way California will vote.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:25 pm

No we donâ€™t know which way California will vote but we do know how SF and LA will go!

Would it not be a kick in the bAss if McCain took California? I mean Obama lost a 14% lead in the polls bring bout to within 3 points of each other. How do we know that the lost was not from California? I sure hope McCain picks a good VP.

delta1124 · Post by **delta1124** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:06 pm

big dream, little hope of it happening.

getalife · Post by **getalife** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:58 pm

I visited the McCain website today and purchased a bumper sticker ($2.00) and a T-shirt ($25.00). Just doing my part to defeat the "chosen one".

Wearing the shirt might be pretty risky here in Sonoma County.