Year End Championships?????

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:37 am

Was just thinking...................I've been fishing tournaments for awhile now and something that no one really brings up or talks about is, "Why are year end championships not held on neutral waters?"

Whether it be ABA, Won, NBW.................why does 1 region get to fish their home lake every year for the grand finale? It's always been this way for as long as I can remember.

Depending on where you live in Southern Calfornia Where a majority of the field comes from.........................it's only an hour to an hour and a half further drive to the Delta.

A couple of years ago A.C. held their southern championships on Clear Lake over a 150 boats showed up. Just wondering. MP

Jim V. · Post by **Jim V.** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:15 am

good question

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:49 am

Word is , is that the turn outs from the So. Cal. regions are piss pore in comparison to other regions. ( allthough there were only like 75 teams at mead this year ) So in return the So. Cal. guys that do participate are not a majority when it comes to deciding the locatoin of a TOC. We So. Cal guys like to complain but the numbers speek for themselves.
We do not have lakes that are large enough to hold a TOC here at home so we have to travel. The TOC at Castaic in Feb. will be intresting to say the least . I cant imagine what its going to be like if 100 + boats turn out .
When AC moved the TOC from Clear lake to mead there were alot of dissapointed anglers . On the other hand I wouldent want to drive from New Mexico to N. Cal. for a fish off either . I wish AC. would rotate the location to a differant lake from year to year . Seems fair to me . I for one will not go to mead to catch a 9 pound sack . What fun is that !

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:59 am

Ron T. wrote:I for one will not go to mead to catch a 9 pound sack . What fun is that !

It's a whole lot of fun, for the guys that end up on top... just ask Justin, Shaun, and the other guys who manage to persevere.

Roger

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:11 am

Roger,
Once you get used to big NoCal sacks, you may sing a different tune.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:21 am

I would like to see the So. Cal. regions seperate from Reg. #2 and join forces with Reg. #1. That would give us the Delta and Clear Lake . Ya I know we can fish any TOC we like and Anglers Choice has done a great job trying to make everybody happy , but if a team should be fortunate enough to get an Angler of the year title , they must fish the TOC designated to get the chance at the rewards. The guys I talked to dont really want to go to the desert . Im not knocking AC, I think they are doing a great job, Just my .02.

You can make some people happy some of the time , but can never make all the people happy all of the time .

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:22 am

Nah... I'll always have a fondness for Mead. To me, it's a true test of attrition, and as long as everyone is playing on the same field it is fair.

I love catching big sacks, but I also like playing the tough chess game that is Lake Mead... it is a very cerebral fishery, combined with the elements that truly test your resolve.

Roger

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:35 am

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:04 am

YUP!!!!

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:55 am

I guess you'd have to have enough lakes in the region to fish to be able to hold one aside exclusively for a chmpsionship OR make your anglers drive long distances to go another part of the state. In this economy you can't assume that as many anglers would come to say Clear Lake for an all southern region TOC as had previously done. Gas had gone up significantly since that time.

Sometimes it decisions like that that ultimately lead to a lower draw in the regional competitions because folks don't want to make the longer trips so they'll opt to fish something where the TOC is closer to home.

We also have the problem of having some worthy TOC lakes that just don't have enough amenities built around it to accommodate a large filed TOC.

Then again, some will rotate their TOC's in their existing regions to give everyone a shot every now and again at th home field advantage.

sTony

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:03 am

You just like it because you're smart!

Seriously, I know tough fishing does bring the better fishermen to the top. I just wish it were closer, and cooler. I had a chance to go this year, but, with gas prices the way they are, and having never seen Mead before, I passed.
Maybe when gas prices come back down.....

Or they come out with a hybrid truck that can tow and still get 40mpg.....

In the mean time, I'm saving for a road trip up to Clearlake and the Delta.

tunaman wrote:Nah... I'll always have a fondness for Mead. To me, it's a true test of attrition, and as long as everyone is playing on the same field it is fair.

I love catching big sacks, but I also like playing the tough chess game that is Lake Mead... it is a very cerebral fishery, combined with the elements that truly test your resolve.

Roger

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:12 am

Naci. San Antonio, how about Roosevelt or Lake Powell? If 5-6 hours are the max people will drive then for the South, Mead is the only lake that is big and has a even playing field IMHO. Amistad would be the ultimate though. Rick G.

Ray L. · Post by **Ray L.** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:27 pm

If you are going to Texas than why not Falcon it blows away Amistad

MikeR · Post by **MikeR** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:10 pm

I don't know about " the majority of the field" Mike, but I agree. A nuetral body of water makes sense. I fished the AC TOC at Mead this year and out of 75 teams I think there were all of 4 teams from SoCal there. Hovever, 3 of them finished in the top 10. In years past this type of tourney would have drawn 100+. Quaggas aside, I think it's the fuel costs of actually "running" the lake that kept alot away. I have a feeling had Havasu been the choice a better turnout would have resulted as I don't use nearly the fuel there as I did at Mead. Fuel cost to get to either lake is about the same for me. If the So Cal area was given it's own region, the Delta makes sense for a So Cal TOC in my opinion, it's about the same distance as Mead or Havasu, give or take an hour or so, it is large enough to handle a large field of anglers and it's close enough to make a weekend trek to pre-fish and familiarize yourself with the body of water if you haven't been there before. I guess what we have to remember is in the AC circuit, if you qualify for the TOC in your region, you can fish any region's TOC. That means the Delta boys could fish that TOC unless there is a change to that policy. I'm still happy to fish against the desert boys and give them a run for their money and I can't wait for Clear Lake!

Mike Reese

Ray L. · Post by **Ray L.** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:25 pm

This thread seems to be going toward A/C and none of the rest.
If you wanted neutral it could happen you would just have to make a drive for a tournament.
Tri States south could head up north and tri states north could come south. So could A.B.A. National could go to Mead since they have no region there for guys to fish.
A/C could make it happen but there would be a lot of rules changes for that to happen. I like the way A/C is for now since you have a shot at a lot of championships if you wanted to drive.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:28 pm

Eisenhower Park would be fun. Tom Matsunaga, Will, and little Uribe would hold a huge advantage though.

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:16 pm

I think its simple. The paybacks don't warrant the drive. Sorry to say. But if we had a BFL/Weekend Series type championships payback the Delta, Clearlake, Mead or Havasu would seem right around the corner.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:30 pm

I dont think its a payback issue , AC gives away four boats and two Merks. from just three TOC,s . We can fish them all if we choose . I would say those paybacks are pretty awsome . I just prefere the reg. #2 TOC was held at a better fishery . If we are going to take the time and spend $ lets make it fun . Which is why my choice is to go to the Reg. #1 toc at Clear Lake . I really dont have an opinion on the home advantage thing . Just want to have a good time and stab some pigs wherever I go .
Again , Im not trying to bash AC. in no way what so ever . It is what it is and just expressing my personal 02. Their Clear Lake option is the main reason I fish their derbies , oh and I really like Jim Reyes

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:05 am

What if they had a tourney within a tourney? Meaning you fished only against your region? At all the venues?

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:31 am

Lake Mathews. A totally neutral lake!

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:44 am

There is always going to be a local advantage.. i say just rotate it so each region has the advantage one year.. or im with rick ... Amistad... Good luck beating Shaun anywhere..

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:49 am

Here's something to chew on for your Monday morning. I had a customer walk into my office yesterday at Angler's Marine after looking at my post and pointed this out.

National Bass Championships this past weekend Including the winners (Congrats by the way Mike and Shaun) 8 out of the Top Ten finishers qualified through the Colorado River Region.

My team partner Mike Lillibridge came in 9th. But something interesting was pointed out to me about a top 5 team. I'll let you guys figure that one out though. MP

DL · Post by DL » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:53 am

Let me guess, someone fished that didn't qualify??? Say it aint so...

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:26 am

Phua you must be bored again.

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:56 am

Nah.......just never afraid to point out the obvious. You know how it is around here guys love hanging out at Angler's and they always seem to express their feelings and thoughts but no one ever says anything to the rest of the public. MP[/b]

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:29 am

so what went down then?

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:38 am

That's it, stir the pot!

some guy wrote:so what went down then?

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:52 am

If i didnt dump 3 costly big fish, I would have been right there. Then I would have cared... right now.. I hate myself.

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:57 am

M.ROOKE-S.BAILEY 10/10 3.81 31.74
2 T.PAVKOV-L.RANKIN 10/10 4.18 30.02
3 E.SHAVER-J.HOWARD 10/10 4.53 28.38
4 L.LOCATIS-D.ROJAS 10/10 4.31 28.34
5 S.BRECKO-K.KRUCK 10/5 1.00 3.59 27.94

DL · Post by DL » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:08 am

Its tough when only half the YTD standings are on the website...

Vern · Post by **Vern** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:56 am

Well let me put my 2 cents into this thread. First I think there are some great points made hear.
At AC we had several TOC tournaments at Clear Lake. We had great turn outs, but we were getting complaints from the majority of the anglers (not SO CAL) as to why they had to drive up to 18 hours to go to a Region 2 TOC.
So we brought it south last year, we had 139 boats at Havasu. This year we tried something new we are having 3 TOC tournaments. The main one on Mead then Powell then in Feb we are coming to So Cal.. We are trying to accomidate the anglers as best as possible.
We are rotating the TOC tournaments each year. Next year we will be going back to Havasu in the South.

Lets touch on a neutral Lake there is know such thing. Clear Lake was not neutral.
Havasu surley is not look at the TOC tournaments that have been there in the last two years.
As for Mead it is not completly neutral but it is as close as you can get. You can look at the results of many major tournaments..
As for only having 75 boats for the AC TOC we expected a small turn out as every one can not afford to do 2 or 3 TOC so they picked out the one they wanted to fish. I feel if you take the turn out for all 3 AC TOC tournaments the number will be there.
As for Lake Mead ABA has held their TOC on Mead as long as I can remember it is always a fun tournament with great numbers. I guess it will be the same this year.
I know that most of the orginazations are open to suggestions, look at ABA they had a vote and changed their format this year , AC is doing 3 TOC .
I will end with this we try to give the anglers what they want, we can not please everyone but we do the best we can. Vern

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:24 am

What region did the second place team qualify from?

DeltaBound · Post by **DeltaBound** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:05 pm

Year in championships should be held on neutral lakes, otherwise there is a home team advantage, especially if you have to drive 5 hours to get to a lake to practice.

DL · Post by DL » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:24 pm

some guy wrote:What region did the second place team qualify from?

I couldn't find them on the NBW site. Two regions no longer have the 08' YTD standings posted...

Lynne · Post by **Lynne** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:28 pm

The second place team DID qualify through our Allstar Bass Region.

FYI........We, NBW, NEVER knowlingly invited or allowed a team fish our championship without having qualified. This year, like last, we made some iron proof provisions so that we checked, checked again and triple checked that EACH "team" was qualified and that each member signed EACH entry form that was pre-filled out by me personally. Each entry form had EACH qualifying team names on them and EACH region had a different colored entry form. EACH entry form was also cross referenced with the finishing year to date standing number on it for each region. I figured with cross checking each team several times there would be no mistakes or confusion.

This Championship we paid out $31,070 is cash and the first place team won a new ZX190 Skeeter boat powered by a Yamaha 150 hpdi motor. This is the same boat that we are going to give away at our 2009 Championship. Again EACH team will be qualified that will participate.

I do hope that all that participated enjoyed the raffle, the breakfast and the barbecue that was provided.

Our first regular season team event starts on October 11, 2008 at Lake Havasu (one week prior to Tri States) We will again be offering our guaranteed payback this season.

Best wishes and for any additional questions, please call me at 760-497-8238 or type them here and I shall answer them publically.

Lynne Peterson
National Bass West

Ray L. · Post by **Ray L.** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:39 pm

interesting how the main subject can take a curve in another direction.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:54 pm

"Bow to the trophy"

littlebailey · Post by **littlebailey** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:06 pm

Same complaint comes every year no matter where you go. Just comes out of a different mouth! You can all argue all day, but until one of you creates a lake that nobody is allowed to fish except for fish offs, then this will continue to go absolutely nowhere, just like it did last year. Happy monday everyone.

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:21 pm

This was brought up to come to a solution not to cause controversy. There are plenty of lakes National Bass could've went to. They have 3 California regions and 1 Havasu Region. They could've done it at Mead If they wanted it to be a Neutral site. Am I wrong about that one? Not picking on NBW..........ABA and Won can do the same as well. MP

littlebailey · Post by **littlebailey** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:29 pm

Thanks to your co angler! All this is besides the point. The point was there is no neutral water. Mead isnt even Nuetral. If a local wins that one someone else will say the same thing. Thats all my point was. Dont know why you took it somewhere id didnt need to go. Grow up!

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:38 pm

If you don't think you can't win, then stay home!!! If your going to cry after you lose then don't go in the first place. Funny how shadows come around to try and put fuel on the fire too. That's not a surprise though. No lake is neutral, none!!!!!!! You will always have people that have fished any given lake, no matter where you go. This thread is useless!! Close it!!!!!!!
Guy Williams

Al M · Post by **Al M** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:38 pm

The way I see it is have them all at Havasu.That place is insane,wish it was closer so that we could fish it on any given day then maybe we could beat some of those guys.Although me and Rex only had 9#s day one we came in with 13.56#s on day two not good enough for anything but we did beat Rojas and partner on day two

.That was all we could brag about.If people think that certain venues are not neutral and think they dont have a chance then dont fish it,pretty simple.We went into it thinking we would win and thats why we went.

Al M · Post by **Al M** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:39 pm

Hey Guy you must have been typing at the same time but good to see we think alike.Now maybe you can show Pete how to catch those Havasu bass.

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:49 pm

Your funny "thanks to your Co Angler?" Last time I checked FLW isn't shared weight clown.

Why not go to Lake Mohave? No circuit there right?

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:53 pm

I'm over it. Wasn't tryin to diss ya Paul your first post struck me alittle wierd though.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:01 pm

In pre fish we had some largies over 5lb and and some 4lb smallies. We even broke 18lbs in pre fish. The fish are there you just have to be on point. When it came down to derby day we dumped fish..simple as that.. we sucked. If you want to win, get out there and do your homework. No one is just going to hand you a boat.Those guys that live out there made those sacrifices to be able to have the advantage for the boats, that shows a level of commitment right there that deserves to be rewarded. To be able to know that you can hang with those guys is enough inside to keep getting me to go back. Im just sayin.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:31 pm

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:33 pm

I say toc at mud puddle and irvine in the middle of aug. bunch of girls havasu is a great toc place.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:30 pm

Hooked too many John. Come on man, everyone knows that at the river lakes.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:31 pm

That's why that many days of pre-fish is boring and painful.

Tags

Notice