Why Do Working Class Republicans Vote Against Self Interest

[Bass Attack]

The last time I was here I was roundly attacked, but what the heck lets try again.....

Here is a question to all working class republicans everywhere...Why do you as a working class person support a party that promotes policies that are absolutely contrary to the best intersterests of the working middle and lower classes?

There are a long list of of examples that could be cited demonstrating that republican policies favor big bussiness and the rich while ignoring or even penalizing the working class and yet working class voters vote for that party....You hit me with a rock and I say thank you sir hit me again....I don't get it......

Look at McCain's policy. He wants to give further tax breaks to big oil companies that are already turning record profits, while he wants to subject the working class to a tax increase in the form of taxing the part of our salary that we apply to health insurance and that is just one example....

Now I can here the "Trickle Down" argument brewing, but save it....We've had 8 years of Trickle Down Economics and look were we are.....It didn't work for Reagan or Bush Sr. either.....Heck I wrote a letter that was published in my local paper back when Bush Jr. started his presidential campaign predicting that if he were elected he would break the then flourishing U.S. economy and I'll be darned if he didn't do exactly what I predicted he would....and just for the record I'm not a liberal, I'm independent.....

[Marty]

Bass Attack, it was not that I jump all over you because of your views – it was because the way your are going about it! I believe you read the posting on Western Bass all the time and may have even made posts about fishing in another Username. But now you come on here (political section) with a different Username because you don’t want anyone to know who you are – so with that - why should I or anyone respect your views when your don’t even respect yourself and your views to use your own Username (you don’t even have to use your real name just the Username you started with – that way we know at least you are a one of us – a fisherman). If you really believe in what you are saying and want others to respect your views why hide! Don’t you believe in those views? Just look at the Username you picked “Bass Attackâ€

[Bass Attack]

I would like to catch a 10 pounder.....

I'm not on the offensive here, I just asked a question.....I'm not attacking..... maybe I'm missing something and I should cast my vote for McCain...I'm seriously wondering what working class repulicans see as a benefit to voting for folks that seem to have thier worst interests at heart....

[hrvestuff]

.....

I'm not attacking..... maybe I'm missing something and I should cast my vote for McCain...I'm seriously wondering what working class repulicans see as a benefit to voting for folks that seem to have thier worst interests at heart....

Maybe I can help. First and foremost the downfall of Fannie Mae, etc did not begin under the Bush administration, but rather under the Clinton administration that had long pushed for lowering credit requirments to make loans to many, who , by any stretch of the imagination , were not qualifed borrowers due poor credit history or low income levels. You speak of Bush's protection of the oil industry and make mention of mind boggling profits - yet the oil industry averages about 8 1/2 % return on thier investments while signing payroll checks for hundreds of thousands , if not millions of
working Americans. Regardless, Bush is not an issue in this campaign, and like it or not if he were running for election he would likely trump Obama worse than will McCain. Many of the "working republicans" and "working democrats" will support McCain in this election - not because McCain was their first choice for a candidate, but simply because finding a reason to vote for Barack Hussein Obama is a difficult task. He takes a strong stand on practically nothing, disdains the military and their achievements,
has close ties to some very questionable characters both here and abroad. Simply stated; he cannot be trusted.
Further, the various labor union endorsements of Barack Hussein Obama mean very little to the "working American".
. Labor unions supported the candidates opposing Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Sr and the present Bush. However the "working Democrats and Republicans" ignored such endorsements and they will again in November. Included in the "working class" are millions who have worn the uniform of the Americqn military and the vast majority have deep appreciation for the contributions and sacrafices made by John McCain. For that reason alone, John McCain get's our vote.

[Brian Linehan]

WELL PUT

[Bass Attack]

My company didn't make an 8.5 percent profit this year or last year as a result of the slowing economy under the current republican leadership, in fact we actually lost money over the past two years, yet I don't hear McCain pushing for a reduction in our taxes by 40% and yes we write checks for working class Americans. Why should McCain's buddies in big oil get a tax break while making record profits and a small bussiness owner that is fighting to stay afloat does not? The answer is very simple, the republican leadership cares more about padding the pockets of the elite than they do about protecting the working class backbone of the country.....

If you think our economic problems begin and end with Fannie Mae, you (and I suspect most other republicans) have had your hand buried deep in the sand....over the past two years have you noticed the number of car, boat and rv dealers that have gone broke, many of them that have been around for 20 or 30 or more years....Have you noticed the other businesses that have gone under. The french bread company in Sac went broke after 79 years of business....Are you not aware of the fact that the average worker has lost $1,000 in salary per year under the Bush administration....the credit institutions that are going broke now are only a big example of a problem that has been afflicting middle class America for the past several years.....

George Bush is incompetent. Why don't you just admit it? Six weeks ago he was telling us that the economy was "strong and robust". Last week he was in a tizzy and telling us we had to bail out the banks to the tune of $700 million immediately and without oversight. John McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time....Obama might do a great job or he might do a bad job, but the chances of him doing as bad a job and damaging the United States as much as George Bush has over the past 8 years is slim indeed...A vote for McCain is a vote for 4 more years of the same failed policies we've seen since 2000....

Getting back to the main point, while your answer was long and draped in the American flag you still didn't answer why you would vote for a party that has the worst interests of the American working class at heart......

Finally, let me set the record straight and let you in on a little secret...Republicans don't have the market cornered when it comes to patriotism and sacrifice. My uncles are both life long union democrats. They never have voted republican and they never will, both of them were decorated soldiers in 'Nam....McCain was a hero in Vietnam, so was John Kerry....You guys hated Kerry but you love McCain (after hating him for 8 years) You also love George Bush who sat out the war in the air national guard and ultimately lost his privilege to fly because he defied orders and would not submit to a physical that included a urine test....I wonder why he didn't want to pee in that cup?????? Did it have something to do with a white substance???? I guess he couldn't even make that sacrifice for his country

[getalife]

My company didn't make an 8.5 percent profit this year or last year as a result of the slowing economy under the current republican leadership, in fact we actually lost money over the past two years

What ever your doing, your not doing it right! Companies come and go in good times and bad. These are tough times for all businesses but, I assure you, many business owners are making money right now.

If you think our economic problems begin and end with Fannie Mae...

Who said that?

have you noticed the number of car, boat and rv dealers that have gone broke

Is that the fault of the republicans? When times get tough and people have to tighten the belt, the toys are the first thing to go. Many of the cars, boats, and RV's purchased in the last five years have been paid for by home equity. That no longer exists for many people.

George Bush is incompetent. Why don't you just admit it?

In many ways I agree... but not in all ways.

why you would vote for a party that has the worst interests of the American working class at heart......

I would not! That is why I am voting for McCain and not Obama. Bush has not been the president I hoped for, but he was the best choice in the last two elections. The Democrats have consistently chosen the worst possible candidate to run. Gore, Kerry, and now Obama... is that the best you guys have to offer? You leave us no choice but to vote against you. I didn't want to vote for Bush the second time, and I really don't like McCain very much, but the Democrats leave me no choice. You think Obama cant do more harm than Bush? Thats funny, I don't care who you are.

[StockOption]

I'm not on the offensive here, I just asked a question.....I'm not attacking..... maybe I'm missing something and I should cast my vote for McCain...I'm seriously wondering...

....you (and I suspect most other republicans) have had your hand buried deep in the sand....George Bush is incompetent. Why don't you just admit it? .......A vote for McCain is a vote for 4 more years of the same failed policies we've seen since 2000.... a party that has the worst interests of the American working class at heart......I wonder why he didn't want to pee in that cup?????? Did it have something to do with a white substance???? I guess he couldn't even make that sacrifice for his country

Funny.

Your motives here seem a bit disingenious to me.....I sincerely doubt you are "seriously wondering" about anything related to this election. Your mind is clearly made up.

[Marty]

I can’t take it any more – let me tell you the truth, I was just talking with George the other day and he said he wanted to screw poor old Bass Attack no matter how the State of California is taking care of him!

By the way you are talking just like you got out of collage because you sound just like all of the graduates I have working for me – they just like you they keep putting out working class Americans and middle and lower classes vs big bussiness and the Rich. Did you get this out of Obama campaign because it sounds just like the Communist Manifesto = http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... manifesto/.

If McCain and Bush were twins I would never vote for Obama – his views and beliefs are Marxists.

“Oâ€

[The People]

...Clinton...

ad nauseam. Any pundit worth his weight in pet dander can pin anything on one side or the other. If you're actually going to blame Slick Willy for all the economic turmoil we're experiencing now, you have to at least give him credit for the surplus and robust economy we had when he was President. You can't have it both ways.

... the oil industry averages about 8 1/2 % return on thier investments...

The oil industry makes profits hand over fist. They may quote their returns on investments as justification, but it's a falsification of the numbers. They identify their maximum need for investment to do the calculation, but don't actually spend that money on exploration or refinery development.
I don't want to go nuts on this response, so here's a couple of links to check out:
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/ar ... -Companies
http://www.usnews.com/articles/business ... dfall.html

[The People]

Back on topic: "Why Do Working Class Republicans Vote Against Self Interest?"

First off, I agree with you that working-class people who vote Republican vote against their own best interests. But that does not mean that it is not justified. I think there are four possible reasons for it. Number 4 is probably the most common, but 1 through 3 definetly exist.
1) They come from a traditionally red state or region and listen to/watch slanted media sources who are very talented at spinning reality to convince them to vote Republican.
2) They are of a generation that remembers what the Republican Party used to be, and have yet to recognize that the new version of neo-cons has completely abandoned the very principles of conservatism that made their party strong. Unfortunately, these folks are still wearing the "R" jersey simlpy because the are cheering for their alma mater. They will vote "R" until they breath their last breath.
3) They are willing to vote against their own self interests because their morals and principles are more closely aligned with those who fund republican candidates. These are the people of faith who put more trust in Church than they do in State.
4) Their honest beliefs in what is best for our country more resemble those of the party that would not benefit them directly. They are less interested in how they personally benefit than they are in how the country or the world benefits. This mindset includes most lower to middle income white conservatives, but it also includes some very wealthy people, such as some prominent hollywood types who would personally benefit more from Republican policies than those Democratic, but lean way left because of their personal and moral beliefs.

[Jeff C.]

Hang in there Bass Attack. Don't let the Conservatives on this board get you down. They just get frustrated when they can't beat you on the issues.

Here is a question to all working class republicans everywhere...Why do you as a working class person support a party that promotes policies that are absolutely contrary to the best intersterests of the working middle and lower classes?

You know that's an issue that I've always wondered. I don't think there's a single answer but a whole lot of different answers put together.

First, there's the link between the Republican party and religion. I think a lot of people will vote Republican simply on the social issues because that's what they believe their religion calls for.

Next, there's the whole military issue where the Republican party has usually been viewed as the party in favor of a strong military. So if someone never grew out of their immature "Oh yeah, the USAs gonna kick some a$$" phase then they tend to gravitate towards the Republican party.

Lastly, I believe there's certainly some prejudice out there that motivates some people. Prejudice against poor people, prejudice against minorities, immigrants, homosexuals, whatever.

In the end, we all have our own reasons for making our final decision on how we vote. Most people don't agree with their party or candidate on every single issue, but they go with the party or candidate that they agree with on the issues they feel are most important. So for instance, if someone is strongly bigoted against gay people or believes that the most imporant issue is the overthrow of Roe V Wade, then he might vote against his own self interest on other issues.

I'm against gun control and I'm in favor of developing nuclear energy but those issues are less important to me than the issues of earning a fair wage for a days work, and taking care of the environment, and basic human rights. That's why I vote Democratic.

[StockOption]

Brillant.

So these thoughtful reponses boil down to basically;

a) FOX news is making them.
b) Their religon compels them.
c) They are immature.
d) They are prejudice.

I think that about sums it up, right?

OMG

[The People]

So these thoughtful reponses boil down to basically;

a) FOX news is making them.
b) Their religon compels them.
c) They are immature.
d) They are prejudice.

I think that about sums it up, right?

Not even close.

[StockOption]

My point exactly

[The People]

Then, can you offer up a better set of reasons?

[Dan McKenzie]

Marty,
Heres a thought, if you don't like the fact the person hasn't posted their name, don't respond. If you do, answer or respond to the question, not your conspiracy theories.

[Bass Attack]

I'm going to paste an article below compiled and published by the non partisan EPI....If you read this and you are a working person who still supports the policies of George Bush and plans to vote for McCain, logic doesn't play a role in your thinking or decision making....Vote Republican and punish yourself, it just doesn't make sense......Check out the article...and let us know what you think.......



Over the last five years, there has been a new concentration of wealth in the hands of the few in the US. Meanwhile, middle and lower-income families have seen their already precarious financial solvency eroded by rising debt and stagnant wages, according to the most recent analysis by the non-partisan Economic Policy Institute (EPI).

Wealth, or the lack of it (and debt), plays an obvious role in people's ability to purchase basic necessities, higher education, retirement security, and to cope with financial emergencies (like major illness or unemployment). And because existing wealth (or debt) is a major factor in having access (or lack of access) to opportunities to accumulate more wealth, measuring how wealth is distributed is an important means of calculating the standard of living as well as more abstract principles like democracy and equality.

In its soon-to-be-released volume "The State of Working America, 2006/2007," EPI estimates that the top 1% of households controlled about 34.4% of all net worth in the economy with each household averaging about $15 million in wealth in 2004. Between 2001 and 2004, the average wealth of the top 1% grew by about $1.25 million, and that group of people hold an average of $3.3 million in stocks. By 2004, the top 1% of households owned 190 times what the typical, middle-income household owns.

By contrast, the bottom 90% controlled a mere 19% of all financial assets. Nearly 1/3 of US households own $10,000 or less in wealth, with slightly more than half of that group in the red. In fact the average wealth of the bottom 20% shrank between 2001 and 2004 by almost $3,000 to -$11.400. That's right, negative $11,400.

Racial divisions further complicate the wealth gap. According to EPI's findings, one important source of wealth ownership for most middle income families is home ownership. Seventy-three percent of white households own their home, while only 48.2% of African American households and 49.5% of Latino households do. This difference plays a significant role in contributing to the fact that the median white household was worth $118,000, while, in contrast, the median Black household was worth only $11,800 in 2004, according to the latest available figures.

The growing wealth gap in the US says something about US society, especially under the Bush administration, says Lawrence Mishel, president of EPI and co-author of "The State of Working America, 2006/2007." "They talk about the vast democratization of wealth," Mishel remarked at a recent news conference, "which turns out not to be so much the case."

Mishel cites the Bush administration's tax policies as the main culprit in the increase in the wealth gap. Bush's tax policies essentially shifted the burden to finance the federal government from the wealthy and the capital they own to the wages of the working class. Specifically, reductions in capital gains taxes and other taxes on wealth producing assets have benefited the richest sections of society, freeing capital for more capital accumulation (rather than circulation of more money in the economy as is pretended by pro-tax cut pundits).

Meanwhile, tax cuts have shown little direct benefit to middle- and lower-income households as they own few, if any, wealth producing assets. Instead, the bulk of the tax burden is shifted to taxes on wages, usually the main source of income for working families. The effect is that on top of rising medical and educational costs, high gas prices, higher rates of debt, and other financial emergencies that inevitably arise, working families are finding few extra resources for wealth accumulation let alone savings.

In the midst of increased costs of necessities, the New York Times reports, wages and salaries as a percentage of GDP has fallen from 50 percent in 2001 to 45 percent in the first quarter of this year. This decline disproportionately affects lower and middle-income households as the very richest Americans only earn about two-thirds of their income through wages and salaries, while working families, as has been shown earn very little income outside of wage income.

What measures might be adopted to reverse this trend and protect a good standard of living for working families?

First, strengthen the collective bargaining power of workers for better pay and benefits by guaranteeing their right to organize labor unions.

Second, a universal health care program, like the Medicare-for-all plan proposed by H.R. 676 introduced by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), could control the cost of medical care and prescription drugs, allowing working families more disposable income available for savings and other necessities.

Third, repeal the Bush tax cuts for the richest households, capital gains, and estates.

Fourth, strengthen Social Security by ensuring a guaranteed livable income tied to rises in the cost of living with full benefits for retired and retiring workers.

Fifth, provide subsidies to working families to encourage savings. Ideally, these would take the form of direct payments to working families to start savings accounts – much like the billions of dollars the Republican-controlled Congress gave to oil companies in 2005 simply for existing, but with broader social benefits.

Sixth, use carefully developed affirmative action policies to stimulate job growth, government investment, and infrastructural development (health care facilities, schools, roads, public transportation, small businesses, housing, basic services, etc.) in areas populated predominantly by African Americans and Latinos to close the racial wage and wealth gap.

Of course such an agenda, which probably could be accomplished for less than the cost of one Bush war on Iraq (over $308 billion at this point), would require removing the Republicans from power and installing representatives who are willing to put the needs of the majority before the wealthy few.

[Marty]

Dan, do you really want to go there?

[StockOption]

Here's some basic information on EPI's current president:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Mishel

Non-partisan?

I think not. Not even close.

Also this is interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Policy_Institute

Note here that Robert Reich is one of EPI's founders and is now one of the junior senator's key economic advisors.

EPI is clearly NOT non-partisan.

[Bass Attack]

Oh my god they are fighting for the rights of the American working class....clearly that is an evil agenda

[Greg_Cornish]

EPI is clearly NOT non-partisan.

That depends on YOUR position.

[Dan McKenzie]

honest mistake, I've been sick~Sorry.

[Fishin' Dave]

Republicans = bad
Democrats = worse

As a proud union member do I vote for democrats who get me work but like everything I am personally against like gun control, race based quotas, open immigration, gay marriage, and such?

Or do I go with the Republicans who claim to stand for this.

I am HUGE on small government. Bush is a republican and has the largest government in history with the largest debt. A tax and spend liberal Bill Clinton who I detest could balance the budget but this jerk broke our country.

Next time pay attention to the man and those around him instead of the little "D" or "R" next to their name. Who's associated with Obama? Rev Wright, Ayres, Jessie Jackson and other filth. Who's associated with McCain. George Bush; the second worse president we have ever had. So take your pick, I have my own personal reasons for voting one way or the other.

[FishaHallic]

A tax and spend liberal Bill Clinton who I detest could balance the budget but this jerk broke our country.

?

[The People]

George Bush; the second worse president we have ever had.

This is purely out of curiosity. Who do you think was worse than W?

[Brian Linehan]

W sucked, but at least he had the balls to go after Osama and Hussein. Not the Hussein running for president of course

Clinton had the opportunity to kill Osama, but figured that sending a couple missiles would do the job.

Like W or not, the worst terrorist act in our history occurred on his dime. Cut him a little slack for that. I think we are safer today then we were on September 10, 2001 dont you?

we as Americans are so pathetically complacent. 7 years removed from 9/11, most of the country lives as if it never even happened. REMEMBER.....Without National Security, the economy, healthcare, education, and The American Dream isn't possible. Remember that when you vote in November.

[StockOption]

We as Americans are so pathetically complacent. 7 years removed from 9/11, most of the country lives as if it never even happened. REMEMBER.....Without National Security, the economy, healthcare, education, and The American Dream isn't possible. Remember that when you vote in November.

+ to infinity and beyond !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fishin' Dave]

George Bush; the second worse president we have ever had.

This is purely out of curiosity. Who do you think was worse than W?

Jimmy Carter!! Worst president in american history. The list is miles long but at the top would be helping terrorists in to power in iran which directaly led to sept 11. Jimmy Carter should be in jail

[MikeD]

This is purely out of curiosity. Who do you think was worse than W?

Nixon - but time will tell re:Bush, there is still much to be known