Unprofessional Bashing...

ortizmee · Post by **ortizmee** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:36 am

My buddy and I decided to fish the 100% WRL yesterday on the Delta. We filled up the boat and the truck and made the 2 hour drive to Russo's Marina. When we arrived we were dealing with the lady that was checking everyone in and she asked if we had ever fished with them before. We said yes, once before on Clearlake but we fish with Future Pro now. Thats when Mr. Randy Pringle dropped what he was doing and came over to give us the third degree. He asked my partner what he's fished and my partner said he fished FLW on the pro side and finished 50th place. The next words out of Randys mouth were "you can't fish my tournament". We read the rules, we followed the rules, we were within the guidelines, but Randys words were "I'm the tournament director, I won't take any cherry pickers and I make the final decision." It would have been nice to know this ahead of time since we were following the rules posted on their website. It is what it is and I have to deal with that, and we did.

What I can't deal with is that in a room full of new anglers he continued to bash Vince's Future Pro Tour organization. He said that Vince allows anyone to fish his tournaments and that Vince does things he wouldn't do. Vince this and Vince that blah, blah, blah. I finally tuned him out. I don't understand why he would try to undermine another organization in front of everyone. This seems very unprofessional to me...

My 2 cents.

kopper_bass · Post by **kopper_bass** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:32 pm

ortizmee,
i wasnt there so i can't begin to guess what happended, but one thing is for sure, everybody has their up days and down days. Maybe he was just having a down day - not sure; or maybe he felt like he needed to protect his league from non-amateurs. i dont know.

If you have questions about Randy; what he said, what he did, why he said it, or any of that, i would just give him a call and talk to him. He's surely the only one who has answers to those questions; everyone else would just give you their biased opinions on it.

Randy is a straight shooter, so if nothing else, he would appreciate your concerns and feedback and surely give you some straight answers.

Give him a shout.

Kopper_Bass

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:39 pm

kopper_bass wrote:If you have questions about Randy; what he said, what he did, why he said it, or any of that, i would just give him a call and talk to him. He's surely the only one who has answers to those questions; everyone else would just give you their biased opinions on it.

With the dressing down and verbal lashing ortizmee received from him, I'm sure calling to speak with him again would be the last thing on the guy's mind...

ortizmee · Post by **ortizmee** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:10 pm

I appreciate your advice Kopper but I really have nothing to say to this man. I am embarresed for my partner,myself and Randy Pringle.What ever goes on with him and other organizations is really none of my business. If he's having a bad day then he should leave his personal business at the front door, not for us amateur anglers to have to listen to.

Rafael

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:11 pm

what you are failing to see or understand was that your partner fished as a pro and won money as a pro. he also beat out a lot of other pro's . WRL is the western rookie league. a semi pro event.
i've been around randy alot and i doubt he bashed the fpt tour as you claim. he has always been very respectful and tackfull in responding to and about other circuits more so than the fpt. if you had any doubts or questions you should have called randy prior to the event. sounds like you tried to crash the event and you have got a case of sour grapes.

ortizmee · Post by **ortizmee** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:54 pm

So you do well in a tournament and you get penalized? I read the rules followed the rules, it is what it is. Blkdog you just happen to miss out this time since you spend so much time with him. He said what he said and if he is a man of his word he will tell ya. Just ask him. The main thing is that he was unproffesional about doing his buisiness and I really feel embarrssed for him.

kopper_bass · Post by **kopper_bass** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:10 pm

Rafael,
i hear ya, and can understand and fully appreciate your position.

a few things for you to consider though.

1) As you stated, your buddy finished in Top 50 of the FLW, and that clearly puts him in an "iffy" position. The rules for all the rookie/future pro leagues do state that the TD has final decision to dis-qualify anyone who they deem at a higher level, to ensure that their true rookies are not taken to the cleaners. Not in any way saying thats what you were doing, just saying that the TD gets the final say to protect his anglers. It sucks for you, but i dont think Randy in that position did anything wrong.

2) Obviously all the circuits do some recruiting & ribbing on guys who fish a competitive circuit and not their own. It happens with FLW vs. Bass, WON vs. A/C, etc. Randy runs the WRL and Vince runs the FPT, so there's bound to be a little competition there, but they both have the respect for each other too. Maybe Randy was trying to get get you to cross to the dark side, or vs. versa, and it just came off the wrong way? Randy surely has a dry humor in him!

3) So many times its stated on this website, yet few people want to try it. If you have problems with Orgs, Stores, or personal problems with people, go directly to the source and talk to them about it. Posting those problems here, with no real intent to get results or your questions answered, just brings about bad things for everyone involved. And then everyone piles on the BS to make it worse.

So, consider it.

Cheers and good luck,

Kopper_Bass

Lake · Post by **Lake** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:19 pm

I have to agree with kopper bass and adding to what he said. Since you didnt tell us your partner's name we cant find the actual facts. I do known that if he finished 50th in just about any FLW NG event he made more then the $4k mark required to fish randy's event. Also he is the TD and makes the final decision.

here is a copy of the wrl rules:

1) Participants and Eligibility: No team or individual will be allowed to fish if they individually or collectively have won more than $4000 and finished in the top 10 in the points race during a given season. Money won from the back seat of a Pro/Am event does not count towards an individual winnings. Also, any team that is found to be a highly qualified team based on points races (top 5 in the angler of the year races) of any other circuit may be asked to fish at the regular team level and not participate in the WRL events. Final decision of all contestants being allowed to participate will be at the tournament directorsâ€™ discretion.

2) Eligibility â€“ Any angler who has qualified for any Pro Championship (100% BASS, B.A.S.S., F.L.W.,EVERSTART, WESTERN BASS, or W.O.N.) in the past 10 years is ineligible to fish as an amateur on the 100% BASS tour.

and here is a copy of the full field payout from FLW NG

$1 Million Events Purses * Professional Purse Co-Angler Purse
Entry fee - $3,500 Entry fee - $700
Place Purse Place Purse
1st $125,000 1st $25,000
2nd $50,000 2nd $10,000
3rd $40,000 3rd $9,000
4th $30,000 4th $8,000
5th $20,000 5th $7,000
6th $19,000 6th $6,000
7th $18,000 7th $5,000
8th $17,000 8th $4,000
9th $16,000 9th $3,000
10th $15,000 10th $2,000
11th-15th $12,500 11th-15th $1,500
16th-20th $12,000 16th-20th $1,400
21st-25th $11,500 21st-25th $1,300
26th-30th $11,000 26th-30th $1,200
31st-40th $10,500 31st-40th $1,100
41st-50th $10,000 41st-50th $1,050
51st-60th $2,500 51st-60th $1,050
61st-75th $2,000 61st-75th $800
76th-100th** $100
Snickers Big Bass (3 days) $500 Snickers Big Bass (3 days) $300

Roger Saraiba · Post by **Roger Saraiba** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:40 pm

I wasn't there so I don't know what happened but I do know Randy and he is a great guy. It is very important to Randy to protect his rookies and I say kudos to him for that. I don't think Randy meant anything by it, he was just trying to protect his guys.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:43 pm

Roger Saraiba wrote:...he was just trying to protect his guys.

Ortizmee, you must be an evil evil man.

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:51 pm

Lake? did his partner fish FLW National Guard or FLW Stren? Because if it is the latter, then your point is moot.

Lake · Post by **Lake** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:12 pm

NAR the poster didnt clarify and based on the supposed reaction from the TD it would only make sense it was the NG or his partner didnt clarify that to the TD. Either way this is something that should have been brought up offline in an email or something before on here.

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:23 pm

here's a copy of the rules :
100% BASS â€“ Special WRL Rules for 2008

1) Participants and Eligibility: No team or individual will be allowed to fish if they individually or collectively have won more than $4000 and finished in the top 10 in the points race during a given season. Money won from the back seat of a Pro/Am event does not count towards an individual winnings. Also, any team that is found to be a highly qualified team based on points races (top 5 in the angler of the year races) of any other circuit may be asked to fish at the regular team level and not participate in the WRL events. Final decision of all contestants being allowed to participate will be at the tournament directorsâ€™ discretion.

2) Eligibility â€“ Any angler who has qualified for any Pro Championship (100% BASS, B.A.S.S., F.L.W.,EVERSTART, WESTERN BASS, or W.O.N.) in the past 10 years is ineligible to fish as an amateur on the 100% BASS tour.

the way i read it and its pretty clear, your friend was not eligable to fish the wrl with you. i doubt you read the rules prior and it appears that you choose to cherry pick the event. you should have called randy prior to the event to double check.
this was the last event of the season and there were people who fished the season trying to qualify for the toc. how would you like it if someone crashed the event and knocked you out of the toc?
Randy did the right thing. had he let you fish the event and had you won money, think about all the trouble that would have caused and the embarrassment when you would have had to return the money.

ckraft · Post by **ckraft** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:05 pm

Randys right about one thing vince will let any body fish his circuit but if you land in the money and are disqualified he will keep your money.

ortizmee · Post by **ortizmee** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:31 pm

He fished 1 Tournament in the STREN won 767.00. What am I missing in the rules? I've read the rules over and over it has nothing to do with cherry picking. We were honest and told him what we fished and didn't see how it applied to the rules. If im missing something let me know, I will deal with it. Im just not seeing it.

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:42 pm

this is a semi pro league: your partner fished as a pro and won money as a pro while beating alot of other pros.
as easy going as randy is, i would be willing to bet it wasnt as sweet on your part as you are protraying.
also since you read the rules then you remember this part: Final decision of all contestants being allowed to participate will be at the tournament directorsâ€™ discretion. If you dont agree with randy then dont fish his circuit.
if they didnt ask you about your partners stren win, would you have told him?
did you tell vince about your partners stren win, what did he say.

goaheadandhateme · Post by **goaheadandhateme** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:45 pm

1) Participants and Eligibility: No team or individual will be allowed to fish if they individually or collectively have won more than $4000 and finished in the top 10 in the points race during a given season. Money won from the back seat of a Pro/Am event does not count towards an individual winnings. Also, any team that is found to be a highly qualified team based on points races (top 5 in the angler of the year races) of any other circuit may be asked to fish at the regular team level and not participate in the WRL events. Final decision of all contestants being allowed to participate will be at the tournament directorsâ€™ discretion.
Cut and dry. I was there when this went down and I applaude Randy. He did nothing wrong and I appreciate him for maintaining the integrity of WRL. Nothing against you personally. I fish WRL to gain knowledge, not for the money. The day Randy tells me I can"t fish WRL is a day of accomplishment for me. You should take it as a compliment, I would.

ortizmee · Post by **ortizmee** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:13 pm

Im and honest person. If I didn't think it was right we would'nt have driven 2 hours and wasted gas for nothing. If we cant fish then we cant fish. goaheadandhateme maybe in your eyes he did nothing wrong everybody has there own opinion, but I didn't need to hear the crap about Vince and Future Pro. Thats just not good business nor any of my business

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:00 pm

ash · Post by **ash** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:32 am

Ortizmee - my only question is why dont you and your partner fish ABA, WON, WestCoast etc... and step it up a notch out of the rookie leagues?

Why not take Randy's Rant - and use it as motivation for the next level.

With that being said since Ron Diacon has not cought a fish in a year, he and I will be pairing up in the FPT next year

Guyle · Post by **Guyle** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:11 am

I think a guy like Randy, would have enough class to not bash another circuit publicly.

Maybe the rules should include 'no persons who fished pro in FLW'

I thought the money limit was the deciding factor so that they can try other events as pros and until they make$ $4000

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:10 am

Guyle wrote:I think a guy like Randy, should have enough class to keep his mouth shut before bashing another circuit publicly.

Guyle,

Were you there? Did you hear this in person? Do you know that it even happened?

I'm just asking is all.

sTony

Tin Can · Post by **Tin Can** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:30 am

Why even have written rules if a TD is just going to deny someone entry anyway even though they qualify per the rules?

I mean obviously a guy fishing as a pro shouldn't be trying to fish a rookie league anyway, but that is on them. If he qualifies then he qualifies. Let him fish or rewrite the rules.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:00 am

Tin Can,

Do you fish the WRL? Do you know how Randy does his sign ups? I know from watching him that he asks everybody questions about what levels they've been competing at and has denied others entry into the event if he thinks they're above the level of the average guy competing in the WRL. He does so with everyone until he gets to know them.

I called Randy and interviewed him on this matter.

In this case Randy and his wife state that the guy on this team that fished the FLW event as a pro stayed out in the truck when they originally went to sign up for the event. One guy from the team came in to sign up. Randy asked his usual questions and that prompted them to get the other team member out of the truck so Randy could get a better idea of what experience the other guy had. Randy found out that the he'd fished an FLW event as a pro and finished high enough and well enough that he deemed it wasn't a good idea to allow him to fish in a rookie league as well.

The guy did well enough to cash a check at the FLW tournament, finishing in 45th place out of 180 pro anglers. One spot behind Mike Folkestad and ahead of Jimmy Reese, Mike Tuck and also such local pro's as Gene Buchholz and Chuck Russo.

He'd shown he could successfully compete on a higher level then a rookie league. Based on that info Randy used his discretion to not allow him to fish. Sounds like he made a good choice and that the rules as they are written, allowing the TD's discretion, worked just fine.

But let the people that compete in the WRL decide that for themselves. If yo're one of those anglers then you can decide if this effects your participation or not. Some of them witnessed the event and they'll have a clear idea in their minds as to what happened. Others likely just heard about it second hand but they'll all get to make up their own minds and show that when they next get the chance to fish in the WRL. They'll either show up or not.

sTony

Tin Can · Post by **Tin Can** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:10 am

I don't fish ANY tourney I was just wondering. You would think the rules would be clearer to avoid this type of grey area. I was just curious is all. I personally feel the TD made a good call, if I was fishing the WRL I sure as heck wouldn't expect to be competing against pros.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:18 am

I do fish the WRL, and I think this was handled as should be. From what I have seen over the last 4 years fishing it Randy has always done a great job. I have called him a couple times over the years with issues that I had, and he has always responded in a proper manner, and solved them.

Roger Saraiba · Post by **Roger Saraiba** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:40 am

Seems pretty simple to me. If you fish as a pro you are no longer a rookie, you are a pro. Use baseball as an example, If you play any level of pro you cannot go back and play college ball. It should be the same with fishing. Once you compete as a pro you should not be able to go backwards.

ortizmee · Post by **ortizmee** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:17 am

sTony

I sent you a PM

wccjanel · Post by **wccjanel** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:48 am

Roger Saraiba
[quote=" Once you compete as a pro you should not be able to go backwards.[/quote]

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:04 pm

Might as well jump in as everyone else seems to have an opinion !

first let me state that I have fished both circuits in question and I hold each TD in high requard for trying to run what is considered by most a very legit and well run org. Each has there own following of Armature fishermen and fish it for there own good reasons.

Personnely I think that each TD is very careful about the perception of what can happen if they would allow "Cherry pickers" in there Tournament. Reputation and participation would go down the drain pronto.

Knowing Randy, I have found him to be a very concerned, on the up and up director that is trying to run an event that is fished by many that have a good experience in a true Armature event, same as Vince.

But, What I think is missing here is, What would have happened and what would have been said and thought by the fishermen, had it come out after the event, that a fisherman who had fished a FLW and cashed a check as a Pro no matter how small, fished as a Armature in the WRL and cashed a check or placed, or for that matter even fished it ?

I know this, This site would have a melt down from all of the irate posting from pissed off fishermen who would be accusing WRL and Randy allowing, what they feel are cherry pickers or pro's to fish the tourniment and The reputation of WRL and Randy would be in the trash.

It seems too me that even if Randy errored, he errored on the side of caution for the good of all. and should be give his accolades for doing so, to protect the WRL and its amateur participants.

Simple, To Bash is better than not Bashing at all, for all concerned !

Soap Box Ended

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:08 pm

ortizmee... As harsh as it might sound, you got exactly what you deserved...

Obviously, you didn't read the rules or you would have never made the drive and tried to cherry pick an AM event. I would have sent you packing just like Randy did. He did the right thing. And the lady you met was Sherry Pringle, Randy's wife, and if Randy didn't show up when he did, she would have sent you packing.

Randy is very good at weeding out the cherry pickers and he hates them as much as the rest of us. He runs a AM level tourney and unlike other TDs, he will not tolerate cherry pickers. If you really want to fish an AM event and compete WITHOUT a bunch of cherry pickers and cheaters, then WRL is right for you... However, you will have to find an actual AM partner to fish with.

Anyone who wants to pick cherries should steer clear of the WRL.

If you want to fish a true AM level event, then you should be grateful for a no BS TD with a spine like Randy.

Randy is aggressive about weeding out the undesirables and I am very happy that there is someone out protecting the only true AM level event going. He is taking the difficult road and protecting the integrity of his org and turning guys away, even when it cost him the numbers. If you were not trying to cherry pick as you claim, then you should be grateful.

When my partner and I first signed up, we got the same grilling you did. The difference was, it made us want to fish the WRL even more. We knew Randy was doing it to protect us, not insult us. Sometimes that takes a good grilling to break though the BS, catch someone off guard, and see them for whom they really are.

I have fished both FPT and WRL...

In my opinion, the WRL is 100% better and geared towards AMs improving their skills and competing on a level fieldâ€¦. Vince's rep is very well deserved, itâ€™s not a conspiracy, but that is just an educated opinion.

Just thought Iâ€™d throw yer 2 cents back atcha all nice, clean, and shiny. See how purrty they look... I cleaned them with 100% perspective.

Good Fishing,

-Paul-

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:01 pm

As more info comes out about this incident, it appears ortizmee and his partner knew the rules and they tried to sneek in under the radar by having his partner stay in the truck. Once they got caught they have tried to bash their way out to take the heat off of themselves.
things like this do nothing but bring bad reputations for the sport.
I am curious if they have told FTP about the "pro" win and what Vinces response is or was. I wonder what the other anglers in the FTP would have to say.

outdoorsman · Post by **outdoorsman** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:20 pm

[quote="Roger Saraiba"]Seems pretty simple to me. If you fish as a pro you are no longer a rookie, you are a pro. Use baseball as an example, If you play any level of pro you cannot go back and play college ball. It should be the same with fishing. Once you compete as a pro you should not be able to go backwards.[/quote]

What if you fish an event as a pro, but decided you didnt like it and went back to the backseat? Just throwing it out there. Sounds like Randy made the right call and this guy is just mad he couldnt neek into an Am event.

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:30 pm

the deal here is the guy won money as a pro and beat out several well named pro's. had he not won anything, i sure that would have made a difference ( have to ask Randy). your right, they tried to sneek in and got caught.

SABP · Post by **SABP** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:39 pm

Your making alot of assumptions.

First of all I spoke with ortizmee after the incident and he told me first hand what went down. So unless you are basing your judgement about what happened from a first hand account and only making judgement from this thread than you dont have all the facts.

First of all Randy has an obligation to protect the WRL from pros, cherry pickers, and really good teams. He made a judgement call based on the information that morning and that was that. Probably made a good decision.

To say they guys were trying to hide something or get away with something is dead wrong and plenty unfair to both parties. If they were trying to hide something they would not have even told Randy about the Stren tournament that the one guy had his 47th place finish. They read the rules before they ever went and did not think that would not be eligible to fish the event. (they probably should have called Randy to ask if it was going to keep them out but the way the rules are posted they should have been ok in their eyes) They were suprised it kept them from fishing the event and upset about the waste of gas and time to go sign up for the event. Plus the bashing of the other trail added salt to the wounds.

For anyone questioning their character from the sideline not cool.

A couple of points:

It should be added to the rules that any member of the team that has ever fished a Pro-Am event as a pro is not allowed to fish the WRL. If anyone else in that field had fished out of the front of a Pro-Am they were in the wrong to sign up.

This team has fished the FPT all year and is not even in the top 25 in the points.

One angler has never fished as a pro and the other fished one pro event (A stren and finished in 47th place on his home water and made 700 bucks. Not even enough to pay for his cost to be in the tournament. Anyyone who has stated that as a "win" has no concept of profit/loss. He lost money fishing that event.

If he would have finished higher like a top ten or made a fat check then you have something but come on.

So

Randy did the right thing get off him.

These guys made an innocent mistake get off them

Update the rules for the WLR to address this issue.

Everyone be nice when talking about other tournament orgs.

And for heavens sake just go fishing.

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:18 pm

SABP wrote:A couple of points:

It should be added to the rules that any member of the team that has ever fished a Pro-Am event as a pro is not allowed to fish the WRL. If anyone else in that field had fished out of the front of a Pro-Am they were in the wrong to sign up.

It IS in the rules.... Pay attention to the parts in bold..... and keep in mind that it would be assinine to expect 100% to hire a lawer to try to draft every possible senario that would lead to a TD turing a picker away.

100% BASS â€“ Special WRL Rules for 2008

1) Participants and Eligibility: No team or individual will be allowed to fish if they individually or collectively have won more than $4000 and finished in the top 10 in the points race during a given season. Money won from the back seat of a Pro/Am event does not count towards an individual winnings. Also, any team that is found to be a highly qualified team based on points races (top 5 in the angler of the year races) of any other circuit may be asked to fish at the regular team level and not participate in the WRL events. Final decision of all contestants being allowed to participate will be at the tournament directorsâ€™ discretion.

2) Eligibility â€“ Any angler who has qualified for any Pro Championship (100% BASS, B.A.S.S., F.L.W.,EVERSTART, WESTERN BASS, or W.O.N.) in the past 10 years is ineligible to fish as an amateur on the 100% BASS tour.

This is crystal clear... If you fished the pointy end of a pro/am in the past 10 years, don't bother trying to cherry pick a WRL tourney without Randy's permission.... Cus you would have to be pretty dumb to waste all that gas, time, and energy, without first picking up the phone and calling ahead to get the all clear. No one wakes up at 2 AM and scratches thier head and says.. "hmm, think I find a delta tourney to cherry pick today, better go get the boat ready". You know you are going to try to fish it at least a day or two ahead of time.. and that is plenty of time to read the rules and call ahead, leave a vm, and get a call back.

Roger Saraiba · Post by **Roger Saraiba** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:23 pm

Outdoorsman,
I should have clairified a little better. If you fished as a pro and choose to fish as a Am or in a Pro Team event and would say you are fine. Once you make the jump to Pro in a Pro Am event I would say you are done with Rookie team events. That is the point I was trying to get across. I know a lot of rookie guys that fish pro team events because they are usally held on the same weekend. I would say that is Ok. I am not the law here though this is just my two cents. Thanks for pointing it out so I could clairify.

Robchik · Post by **Robchik** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:35 pm

Well i tried to bite my tongue, but can't hold back. I am Rafael's Future Pro Tour partner and know him fairly well. So let me begin...

Nipples - You are way off base to imply they were "cherry picking". I happen to know FOR A FACT that Rafael just loves to compete and fish in a tournament, regardless of whether or not he's on fish or thinks he can win. He loves the competition. He also feels that the WRL and FPT are right at his level of competition. He absolutely read the rules and his partner qualifies based on all the rules except the "Tournament Director Discretion" piece, which I totally understand and respect. I wouldn't say they deserved to be turned away, but given the circumstances you can't fault Randy for what he did. it's unfortunate for Rafael and his partner, and Randy's decision to turn them away is within the 100% WRL rules.

BlkDog812 - Sounds like you are questioning my buddies character, over the web no less. Pretty Chicken **** if you ask me. Like SABP said, if they wanted to hide it, they very well could have. If you've ever looked at Vince's participants, there are plenty of guys who have accomplished and won more than the guy trying to fish with Rafael. Why are they allowed to fish FPT? Because winning money in a single event or season does not always equate with skill, this is not to say they don't have skill. They may not be ready for the "pro" level is all. Vince is careful in who he lets fish the FPT and I think it is a great circuit, with tons of competition.

outdoorsman - I can tell you right now there are at least two names who have competed this year in WRL who have fished as a Pro in a previous year. Not that I have a problem with that, but your finger pointing should include these fellows as well. I won't out them, you have to research it on your own. Next your analogy isn't quite right. It's more like Minor league ball A, AA, AAA, and the majors. If a young A league player shows potential and is called up to the bigs and doesn't cut the mustard he's sent back down to A ball. This analogy I can get on board with.

SABP - finally the voice of reason. Let's let this go folks. the character judgments are in POOR taste. The whole issue over Randy possibly saying negative things re: FPT, well there are not enough unbiased witnesses to the entire conversation to have an educated discussion on it, so let's leave it out.

outdoorsman · Post by **outdoorsman** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:41 pm

[quote="Roger Saraiba"]Outdoorsman,
I should have clairified a little better. If you fished as a pro and choose to fish as a Am or in a Pro Team event and would say you are fine. Once you make the jump to Pro in a Pro Am event I would say you are done with Rookie team events. That is the point I was trying to get across. I know a lot of rookie guys that fish pro team events because they are usally held on the same weekend. I would say that is Ok. I am not the law here though this is just my two cents. Thanks for pointing it out so I could clairify.[/quote]

gotcha. just thought id ask the question. That makes perfect sense.

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:58 pm

Ur right neither of us were there at the time. so we dont know exactly what happened. we only get what is wanted to be told to us. I'm sorry but some of his actions and bashing make some suspicious of his intent.
Regardless, his partner made the choice to step up to fish a pro status. He placed above other pro's and won money. Everyone know 90% of the time, expenses exceed winnnings.
Not everyone has a good season all the time and just because they arent in the top 25 in fpt and his partner lost money for his win as a pro, doesnt mean he should be exempt and allowed to fish a semi pro league.
Most everyone on here agreed, as did you, that randy made the right decision.
Ortizmee probly could/ should have handled it better, but when he choose to get upset and come on here and post this, he opened it up for all kinds of opinions whether he, you, or I like the responses.

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:14 pm

Another thing....

It almost sounds like someone felt like Randy should have been all warm and fuzzy... Oh.. um... well sir, I'm so terribly sorry you.. um.. drove all the way here.. but um... yeah.... we are going to have to ask you to kindly leave because you are fishing at too high of a level, thus making you ineligible, and I am terribly sorry that the rules were not clear enough for you on that... I go out right away and try to dumb them down for you and I understand your confusion based on Vincey-poo Harris letting pros fish his am level circuit. I'm sorry about that confusion, and I really wish you could cherry pick our tourney, but I am forced to tell you no. If I let you fish, I'll get in trouble, you realize it's not my fault and I feel really really bad for you... But that Future Pro tour is a fine organization and I wish you all the best. And that Vincey-poo is a fine man and runs some super swell AM tourneys. You know.... Just because he lets pro's like your partner fish his AM tourneys, doesn't mean he is a bad guy... or running dishonest tourneys... He's just misunderstood. You know what, he's not dishonest at all, he is just too nice to turn you fine young men away... and for that, why yes, pros should be able to cherry pick AM events and walk with the winnings, why not....

HELLO!!!!

Give TDs a break, especially on the mornings they are having a tourney... With all the BS they deal with, and being tired and half awake, running in a million directions to all the last minute guys signed up and then race to get everyone blasted off on time, etc. etc.... Don't expect them to be all smoochy-smoochy, there-there wif a pat-pat, give wittle pro angler a big hug....

That TD has every right to be a little peeved that you just wasted what little time he had when he was already scrambling to get everything handled. You are the moron who didn't read and understand the rules, you are the moron wasting his time and forcing him into the position where he has to be the bad guy and send you away. What, you don't know how to pick up a phone and make a call?

Think about it....

You call it unprofessional to bash an org that advertises AM tourneys and blatantly lets pros fish them? I call that just being real and honest... perhaps you are uncomfortable with real and honest... Randy was pointing out the differences between WRL and FPT... you know... so there is absolutly no confusion.

fishfan · Post by **fishfan** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:08 pm

Robchik wrote:Well i tried to bite my tongue, but can't hold back. I am Rafael's Future Pro Tour partner and know him fairly well. So let me begin...

Nipples - You are way off base to imply they were "cherry picking". I happen to know FOR A FACT that Rafael just loves to compete and fish in a tournament, regardless of whether or not he's on fish or thinks he can win. He loves the competition. He also feels that the WRL and FPT are right at his level of competition. He absolutely read the rules and his partner qualifies based on all the rules except the "Tournament Director Discretion" piece, which I totally understand and respect. I wouldn't say they deserved to be turned away, but given the circumstances you can't fault Randy for what he did. it's unfortunate for Rafael and his partner, and Randy's decision to turn them away is within the 100% WRL rules.

BlkDog812 - Sounds like you are questioning my buddies character, over the web no less. Pretty Chicken **** if you ask me. Like SABP said, if they wanted to hide it, they very well could have. If you've ever looked at Vince's participants, there are plenty of guys who have accomplished and won more than the guy trying to fish with Rafael. Why are they allowed to fish FPT? Because winning money in a single event or season does not always equate with skill, this is not to say they don't have skill. They may not be ready for the "pro" level is all. Vince is careful in who he lets fish the FPT and I think it is a great circuit, with tons of competition.

SABP - finally the voice of reason. Let's let this go folks. the character judgments are in POOR taste.

Robchik,

First off it is your partner comming on here publicly bashing Randy and 100% bass, and I sure dont see your partners full name or his pro partners full name in any of his posts! I would be questioning your partners character just for what I have stated so far, hiding behind his screen name makes me wounder! How does anyone know if they were cherry picking without names to research this?

Take your own advice and have your FTP partner do the same and let it die!

Jeff H.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:33 pm

nipples wrote:
SABP wrote:A couple of points:

It should be added to the rules that any member of the team that has ever fished a Pro-Am event as a pro is not allowed to fish the WRL. If anyone else in that field had fished out of the front of a Pro-Am they were in the wrong to sign up.
It IS in the rules.... Pay attention to the parts in bold..... and keep in mind that it would be assinine to expect 100% to hire a lawer to try to draft every possible senario that would lead to a TD turing a picker away.

100% BASS â€“ Special WRL Rules for 2008

1) Participants and Eligibility: No team or individual will be allowed to fish if they individually or collectively have won more than $4000 and finished in the top 10 in the points race during a given season. Money won from the back seat of a Pro/Am event does not count towards an individual winnings. Also, any team that is found to be a highly qualified team based on points races (top 5 in the angler of the year races) of any other circuit may be asked to fish at the regular team level and not participate in the WRL events. Final decision of all contestants being allowed to participate will be at the tournament directorsâ€™ discretion.

2) Eligibility â€“ Any angler who has qualified for any Pro Championship (100% BASS, B.A.S.S., F.L.W.,EVERSTART, WESTERN BASS, or W.O.N.) in the past 10 years is ineligible to fish as an amateur on the 100% BASS tour.

This is crystal clear... If you fished the pointy end of a pro/am in the past 10 years, don't bother trying to cherry pick a WRL tourney without Randy's permission.... Cus you would have to be pretty dumb to waste all that gas, time, and energy, without first picking up the phone and calling ahead to get the all clear. No one wakes up at 2 AM and scratches thier head and says.. "hmm, think I find a delta tourney to cherry pick today, better go get the boat ready". You know you are going to try to fish it at least a day or two ahead of time.. and that is plenty of time to read the rules and call ahead, leave a vm, and get a call back.

I will agree and disagree with your points. Should the team have called ahead? Certainly. Who just shows up as a new team for a circuit? Wouldn't you want to know details? Maybe ask questions about such a vague rule as "Tournament Director's discretion"? As far as your point that this team should have known they were ineligible by the "portion in bold" is wrong. This "Pro" didn't win more than 4,000, finish in the top ten standings individually or top 5 team. Nor did he fish a Pro championship. The only lithmus test they didn't pass was the TD's sole discretion. Why have the other rules if they are far less important than the TD's sole discretion? As it is Mr. Pringle's perogative to disallow any participant, why have these other rules? The team was not close to meeting any of the qualifications of a "Pro" team. I do find it ironic that somebody should title their thread "unprofessional bashing" then proceed to unload the dump truck on WRL. Might have been better to pick another title.

Johnny C · Post by **Johnny C** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:02 pm

Couldn't all of this been avoided by calling Randy prior to the tournament and given him the imformation he needed so he could make a decision before you guys made the drive...Hey can I fish the future pro at Pedro? Just kidding

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:46 pm

your partner Ortizmee probly could/ should have handled it better, but when he choose to get upset and come on here and post this, he opened it up for all kinds of opinions whether he, you, or I like the responses.
FISHFAN wrote
First off it is your partner comming on here publicly bashing Randy and 100% bass, and I sure dont see your partners full name or his pro partners full name in any of his posts! I would be questioning your partners character just for what I have stated so far, hiding behind his screen name makes me wonder!
you decide what the intent was:
1: they did not fish wrl this year, but he claimed to have fished this years clear lake event during the sign up.
2: his partner stayed in the truck while he tried to sign up. only after randy asked about the partners experience did they return, when things got busy, and they didnt go to randy, they tried to sign up w/ his wife.
3: Since his partner won in the pro division in the stren series, this year and beat out several well named pros and he was not a member of wrl at thetime of his win, therefore he is not eligible to fish wrl. (refer to rules)
4: they claimed his partner finished in 50 place and not the 45 place out of 180 anglers , which he did, behind folkstead and above jimmy reese. had it been a full field he could have won up to $10,000.
5: the delta was where his partner won in the stren.
6: this was the last tournament of the year and there were some teams still fishing for points to qualify for the toc. who fish the whole wrl season.
7: instead of listening to randys reason for not being allowed to fish and the difference betweeen wrl and fpt, he" finally tuned him out" and instead choose to come on here and bash WRL and Randy.
Randy has an obligation to protect the WRL from pros, cherry pickers, and really good teams. He made a judgement call based on the information that morning. I'm sorry your partner did not like being denied entry.
you guys obviously like the FTP, so dont fish WRL

Robchik · Post by **Robchik** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:08 pm

I knew no good would come from me posting, I just felt compelled to stick up for my friend. I know his intent was not to try and pull the wool over someone's or get away with something. He just wanted to fish a tourney.

I agree that we should all move on. It wasn't my intent to knock 100% WRL.

My name is Robby Chikasawa, you can email me directly at RobChik@aol.com.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:45 pm

Reading the whole thread I personally think the team was NOT cherry picking!! You should of called Randy to see if you can fish it This is JMO!

Hipster · Post by **Hipster** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:31 am

Nipples,

You had better check what you are qouting!!!!!!!!

It states qualified for a Pro Championship not just fished from the pointy end.

2) Eligibility â€“ Any angler who has qualified for any Pro Championship (100% BASS, B.A.S.S., F.L.W.,EVERSTART, WESTERN BASS, or W.O.N.) in the past 10 years is ineligible to fish as an amateur on the 100% BASS tour.

This is crystal clear... If you fished the pointy end of a pro/am in the past 10 years, don't bother trying to cherry pick a WRL tourney without Randy's permission....

SABP · Post by **SABP** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:47 am

Guess some people are just reading a different set of rules.

In order to qualify for a Pro Championship in any series you have to fish a bunch of them. Not have a less than steller finish in just one.

It says nothing about fishing from the front of the boat in a pro-am being a restriction. In fact it implys that as long as you do not qualify for a pro championship. You could fish.

Obviously this rule needs to be adjusted to say:

Any team (or individual who was part of another team) who has qualified for a pro team TOC in any org in the last ten years is ineligible to fish the WRL.

Any individual angler who has entered and fished a Pro level tournament (from the front of the boat) in the last ten years is ineligible to fish in the WRL.

That would make it pretty clear about who could fish and who could not.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:34 am

What's done is done. Decision was made and its a moot point now. Nothing is gonna change it. Guys fishing the WRL will either like the decision or they won't. They'll either like the rules or they won't and if they need clarification on the rules they know they can always call Randy. If they'd like to see the rules changed then they should go see Randy. It's their league.

sTony

Tags

Notice